Shari Dade | THG Episode #40
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[00:00:00] Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Hilltop glove podcast. Today, we have the pleasure of speaking with Dr. Shari Dade. Shari is a Columbia, South Carolina based psychologist, wellness consultant, and motivational speaker. She earned her PhD in counseling psychology from the university of Minnesota twin cities, and enjoys working with community organizations that focus on trauma, depression, anxiety, and lifestyle transitions.

Dr. Dave, Dr. Dave currently works to facilitate integration between mental health and holistic wellness. In 2017, she developed everyday psychology, LLC, a cons a consulting organization that believes psychology can be value for everyday people and works better when it spans outside our four office walls.

She serves as a key consultant and that fosters wellness and healing by educating through interactive workshops, group, and [00:01:00] individual wellness, consultations, and community wellness seminars. How are you today? Ms. Shari? I'm good. I'm good. How are you? I'm doing good. Thank you for joining us this morning.

Yeah. Thank you for having me. Your voice is so soft spoken. Like you, you making me feel so like you're already right. A.

And that's kind of, I, I actually work with Shari at yeah, aspire wellness. So I I'm around her energy all the time. And I really enjoy your presence. I have to say thank you for just being who you are. So that's why I wanted you to be a part of this episode. Oh, yeah. Thank you. No, I I've enjoyed working with you, getting to know you as well.

And so this is a huge, huge privilege to be a part of you. Guys' episodes. I've listened to a couple, so I definitely am a fan. So happy to be here. We love to hear that. So I know a little bit about you, but [00:02:00] can you tell the audience who Dr. Shari date is and how did you get to where you are? Absolutely.

So yes, Dr. Shari like you said, in the bio, just a licensed psychologist, key consultant for everyday psychology outside of all of those things. I like to think of myself as a healer by all means. I say our society calls it psychologist, but I have been called to do the work that I am doing. A little bit about me.

I am originally from Louisiana and I've been in South Carolina for about seven years now. I can't believe it's oh, like coming up on like almost eight at this point, time moves by so quickly. But yep. The. From the deep south from Louisiana from a very, very small town called shoe rent, Louisiana, most people have never heard of it.

I don't get offended by that. But very small town. And as you can guess in our small town, we didn't talk about mental health and mental wellness and mental illness and all of those things that [00:03:00] is a part of the human experience and human condition much. And so when I was first introduced to psychology in middle school, it really peaked my interest.

I've always been drawn to P and just being able to understand the behaviors of people, why people do what they do and why people don't do what they don't do. And so psychology was kind of a north star guiding me through that understanding. I didn't really know exactly what psychology was. Like I said, I was introduced to middle school and I didn't.

Fully understand the full spectrum of psychology. I just knew that it was like, you get paid to talk to people. And so I was like, oh, I like talking. I like people, let me see if I could do this. And so I started to study it a little bit more and this, that brought me to kind of where I am today. I feel like I have taken the term psychology or the field of psychology and really created and crafted [00:04:00] something that is based in the work that I love to do with groups and with communities.

And so that, that kind of led me to, to here to South Carolina in a short story. But yeah, that, that got me to where I am right now. That's amazing. So, you know, as, as a child, we dream of what we wanna be when we grow up. What influenced your you to choose this career path? Was this always your dream or did you dream of being another, in another field?

A profession? Yeah. So when I was young, I know this is this, like, what did you wanna be in kindergarten? You know? And I was young. I actually wanted to be in a astronomer. And then I realized, I know, right. I wanted to, you know, cause I loved, like I said, I grew up in a really small town. So we had like front view to the stars and all of those different things and the solar system.

And so I that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to go into that. I wanted to study it and then I realized how much. Was [00:05:00] a part of that career. And I was like, no, you know what? That is not for me. You know, you gotta know myself, know your, know your strengths and know your areas of growth. And so math is definitely an area of growth for me.

So I'm very happy. I didn't put myself through that. But I knew in the seventh grade that I wanted to be a psychologist. And usually when I tell people that they're like really in the seventh grade, like I wasn't thinking about like psychology in the seventh grade, but I definitely wanted to go into psychology for all the wrong reasons.

So I heard a teacher of mine say that she was going to her psychologist in class, which she probably shouldn't have told seventh graders. But , I heard that open about mental health is like kind of a new, you know, oh my teachers go psychologist. Not in the nineties, you know, definitely not in the nineties.

But I heard her say that she was paying like $150 an hour and I got like childhood hypnotized by the dollar [00:06:00] signs. And I was like, that's what I wanna do. So maybe I didn't get into the field for the right reasons because I definitely am not making $150 an hour, didn't know about insurance companies and all of that.

But I really, at that point decided that, you know, I really want to be able to study like people, you know, cuz I really enjoyed it. Like I said before. And so from there I started to take classes as I got into high school. We had like AP classes that we could choose different things that weren't typically offered in our curriculum.

So I started to take psychology classes went into undergrad, knowing that I wanted to major in psychology and sociology. So I was a double major in both of those fields of study, enjoyed the mix of both. So focusing in on that individual, but really loved focusing in on that group, which kind of led me into wanting to do a little bit.

Of work in [00:07:00] community spaces. So did that in undergrad, absolutely loved that experience loved the research side of it. And I was going to be a researcher. And then I did a couple of summer internship programs where I would do like 10 weeks of research in different states. So in Chicago and Minnesota and all of these different places, and I realized that as a researcher, you don't get to talk to people as much.

You're kind of stuck in these rooms with all this data and all of that. And so that brought me into more of the practical side of psychology, more of like when we think about psychology, like therapy and things of that nature. So went into doing some psychology in grad school and enjoyed it so much.

Enjoyed humans, like enjoyed hearing stories enjoyed. People being able to take me on their journeys. So, you know, I truly believe that humans are fascinating. Even more like the lives and the stories of humans [00:08:00] are extremely fascinating. So I carry this true appreciation for, you know, this complicated task of like diving into the human condition.

And I am, I carry a huge appreciation for. People allowing me to do that with them, allowing me to walk beside them through some of their most terrifying, some of their most loving or funny or devastating or difficult experiences. I consider it an extreme honor. And so that is kind of what led me into this work.

So after I gave up the dream of, you know, studying the stars, I definitely walked into my dream of studying humans, which kind of is the same. Right. It's kind of like studying the stars, you know, we're made up of the stars, the universe exploring itself. Right. So, so a mix up mix of all of that. So I found my dream in, in psychology.

That's wow. It's cool. So [00:09:00] you kinda answered the next question, but that just made me think of another question. So.

What is it like in your family? Do people like come to you and just assume you have all the answers? I have trained my family. Well, they no longer . They no longer come to me with assuming I have all the answers. But there are times like my family. They do come to me with a lot of Different concerns that they may be going through, which is really, really cool, because like I said, at first I didn't grow up.

Like we didn't talk about mental health. We didn't talk about mental illness. We didn't about yeah. Like it just, wasn't a part of our realities. Exactly. And so now, like having the opportunity to talk with family members who are experiencing their own mental health concerns, right. The fact that they even acknowledge it.

Right. And then the fact that they tell me about it is, is really awesome. It's [00:10:00] really fascinating. So they don't necessarily come to me and say like, you know, I want you to fix it not anymore. At first it was a little bit of that But now it's more of, Hey, can you share some resources with me, which I think is the role of psychology.

It's about empowering people. So I never decide that I'm the expert in anybody's lives, not enough to fix them. Right. So, so I, I'm not a Shari fix your life type of person. I am more of like, let me help you in like, empower or give you your power back so that you can manage and navigate your own challenges so that you feel like you are able to do that in the future.

And so family come to me, they, they ask a lot about different resources. I try to give them as much resources as I can. And you know, that's something that I've really enjoyed kind of on the backside of the work that I do.

Yeah. That's, that's, that's very important. The idea [00:11:00] of, of resources to be able to help yourself. Cause I. I kind of really feel like the, the mental health field is, is kind of about us acknowledging that we're not just consciousness is a long footer ride and that we can, we can do things actions that we can do that can modify our experience and help us through some of this and change the, the way we experience our lives.

Even, even if we can't do anything about the actual situations we are in, we can feel different about it. No. I totally agree with that. I think when we are talking about psychology, we often think about mental illness. And if we think about it only in that one dimensional way not everyone. Struggles or is challenged by mental illness, but everyone has mental health, right?

Mm-hmm, just like everyone has physical health. It's like everyone has physical wellness. Everyone has mental health. And so if we think about it as this continuum of something that we all [00:12:00] possess, then it really does allow us to exist in a way that says, you know, what actions or what behaviors can I take to move myself forward on that continuum?

What things am I doing to make me move backwards on that continuum? So it really just allows us, like you said, to pull out, allow ourselves to see, we don't just exist in the stream of consciousness. Like we actually have the power to decide how we exist in this stream and what that looks like and feels like for us each and every day.

Mm mm. I have a quick question for you. Dr. Day And I know we, we are kind of glossing around this, but our, our little generation, especially as little millennials, but we've done a better job than those in the past of normalizing conversation and talk around mental health. And I just wonder, like, especially as somebody in your profession, do you think it has eased your job or your ability to be sought out by others?

Like [00:13:00] has, have you seen a change from when you were in your youth wanting to be in this field and now in the youth surrounding the field? Yeah, I would say yes and no. As a true psychologist would, right. Depends changes for some, not for others. Yep. I would say yes because, you know, because psychology has been the, like it's been the, I won't, I won't say psychology, I'll say mental health.

Cause mm-hmm sometimes we, we blur those lines. But because mental health has gotten a spotlight in a lot of different ways, a lot of different communities on TV it's on TikTok videos, you know, all of these different things. I think it has really pulled some of that stigma down. Being able to talk about what you're experiencing and to normalize it in a way that allows you to feel safe enough to talk about what you're experiencing, I think is an amazing thing that [00:14:00] we haven't experienced before when it comes to mental health.

And so this is a very new thing, which I think is pushing the feel forward. Mm-hmm but I also think that those. Outlets of talking about mental health are often more shallow than need be. And sometimes that can do harm. So on TikTok, they don't, could you elaborate? Yeah. Elaborate on on TikTok, they don't talk about how difficult therapy is.

Like therapy's not easy, you know, or on TV shows, you know, we'll see someone go to two sessions and then they're great. And it doesn't talk. That is not how it works. It's not how it works. Like therapy is dirty. It's hard. It's, you know, it's trying people wanna quit. Like it is really a fight for your life, right?

It is really a fight for your livelihood and your wellness. It's not as simple as. Someone just listening to you and you know, they say one great sentence and now your life has [00:15:00] changed. And so I think oftentimes that shallow view of mental health and wellness and psychology Sets people up for expectations that aren't always what pairs with reality.

And so I really enjoy when both of those things are coupled, right? So you have this open discussion about mental health and then you have people being honest about therapy is hard. Change is extremely hard. It's, it's trying, and it really does shake the core of who you are, who you believe yourself to be.

And so I think that yes and no, it's like, yes, it's helping us get out there and people talk about it, but it's not always showing kind of a true portrayal right. Of the work that you really have to put into when you are really, like I said, fighting for change and fighting for your life. So it's like a a, a former version, like pop psychiatry, Yes.

Oh [00:16:00] yeah. It's a lot of, it's a lot of pop psychiatry, pop psychology out there, which has its place. You know, I think that, you know, everybody likes to see a dance in psychologist every once in a while on tick to TikTok, you know it may cause someone to actually look into, I don't know, depression or anxiety.

But I do think we do an injustice when we don't talk about the work that you really have to do when you are in this space of change when you are in this space of growth It doesn't come easy. But it can come, you know? And so, yeah, I, I think, you know, we gotta add some depth to the breadth of talking about.

And do you, what are some good? And, and this is just a good thing. So, cause like, all right, so you're talking about these, these misconceptions and these like said pop, psych psychiatry and pop psychology. Are there some resources or things that are accessible that do the inverse of that, that people could reach out to and receive information?

[00:17:00] Absolutely. There's so many different organizations that really do put out really good resources around mental health and mental illness. I often tell people if you see something on Instagram or Facebook, or if you see something on TikTok or hear a podcast, right. Mm-hmm, hear all of these things.

Like don't just stop right there. If it peaks your interest, then that's perfect. Go in and do a little bit more research for yourself. So organizations like NAMI, the national Alliance and mental illness. They have, so I'm a board member on Columbia's branch of NAMI and here locally, we do a lot of different events and we have different community groups that focus in on the education around mental health and mental wellness so on their website.

So if you're not in Columbia, there is usually chapters across the nation. So on, you can go on the website, www dot NAMI, N ami.org and you'll [00:18:00] see different resources. So for instance, if you're interested in looking up depression or anxiety or postpartum depression or anything Isolation and all of these different things that we experience as humans, you can type that in on their website.

It'll give you resources that you can read through that you can learn for yourself what this might be and what this might look like. You can find different professionals in your area that could be useful in helping you with diagnosing these things. Cuz I do see people doing a lot of self diagnosing which isn't always correct.

And so you wanna make sure that you've got the right diagnosis before you start like interventions with things. But you know, it, there's a lot of different places. The CDC has resources. I know that's a, you know, Some people are a fan of CDC right now and not right now, they do have really good mental health resources.

Right. Good. So they do have that take those for sure. [00:19:00] and then, you know, there's different just like local resources that people can find in their own area that might have different educational standpoints. So I often say with pop psychology, you wanna take it a step further? It's not all bad. But don't just look at the face value of it.

Go a little deeper mm-hmm mm-hmm so I think one of the key things is that like, we all have these distortions about who we are and, and you know, what our, yeah. Real nature and part of this is that, you know, maybe there's parts of us that we are not so much a fan of. And so we try to say that that's not us, but.

Know, if it, if it is still there, then we have to hide it from ourself. So that that little ego doesn't get bruised. And so a lot of times when we're really digging into this stuff, it's kind of like you're punching yourself in the face, cuz you're you're stuff about yourself that you ain't really wanna pay attention to it's work.

Yeah, [00:20:00] it's a lot of work. I think, you know, we do so many mental Olympics, right. And, and psych, I often say therapy is, is, is freeing. It teaches you and it shows you all the parts of yourself, the parts that you like, the parts that you don't like, the parts that you approve of, you may not approve of it.

Doesn't take those things away. Right. But it does enlighten you about why they're there, right. When you understand why something is happening or how something came to be, oftentimes you are a little bit nicer. To it. And so it, it encourages you to look at all of those pieces of who you are and integrate those into who you would like to become.

Right? So parts of who I am I tend to have, well say I tend to have an addictive personality. That is I, that's something that I know about myself. That's something that, you know, I can often be my downfall, but it also allows me to be driven. It allows me to get to spaces that other [00:21:00] people don't work to get to, you know because of that.

And so. Through talking and through doing some introspection that can happen in therapy or, you know, outside of therapy, it just allows you to, to not fracture yourself. Cause we can't walk around as fractured beings that literally will drive you to things that aren't healthy. And so if you are walking around as a full integrated person, a full integrated being, and I show up as all of myself in a space and, and it just allows you to be more authentic and more genuine, you then start to build authentic and genuine relationships.

And so it's just that process of therapy and mental health that I think if we don't really dive into it, we, we really Rob ourselves of it.

No thy self, no th self, you know, and after. Yeah. And then after that, the next step is that, you know, we get, we get [00:22:00] these patterns in our life that we are kind of just repeating on autopilot. So even after we see things making that day to day change and, and that's where I think having somebody like you, that that's actually can be an objective observer who can then, you know, tell us what you're seeing.

Cuz we, we don't have that for ourselves. And then, and then, you know, teaching us tools that we can use. Yeah, those patterns are the hardest part, right? oh my God. Cause you don't even know you're doing it. It's autopilot. You insult tell me I am gonna hurt your feelings. It is, is how it goes. And you it's survival.

Yeah. It's survival, right? Or it's what we believe to be survival. It's what our brain learn. Survival. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Most of the things we do are learned. And so the great thing about learning behavior is that can be destructive is that you can unlearn them. You can replace them. And so it really is about noticing those patterns.

Like you, you definitely hit that on the head right there. It's like [00:23:00] the behaviors that we do because it's one thing to know, you know, it's like, oh, you know, the first step is acknowledgement. But then after that it's like, well, what are you gonna do about it? Right. You know? And , and that's what that's, that's the, that's the work that comes in therapy of the, what are you gonna do about it?

Like, and you gonna fail and you come. You gotta be with that, try again. Like that's absolutely. I have a a podcast all about failure a second podcast, the audacity to fail, which talks a lot about failure and it's, it's inevitable. It's a part of life, but you know, you get to fail forward. You're gonna fail right.

When you try to make these shapes that fail forward and you're gonna fail again and again, but each and every time you are learning what not to do and how to, how to persist and do things differently. Mm mm. Well, I have a, I have a quick question about some of the, some of the dirty side of, yeah. Of the, the, the industry of [00:24:00] psychology and psychiatry.

And I know you got into it a little bit earlier talking about the insurance companies and one of my big things is always access, right? Because this is a great tool, but. It's not always accessible to people, either depending on economics or location. And I know that with the advent of online therapy it has helped with some of the access deal dealing with, you know, distance and getting to a location, but the cost of therapy.

Keeps a lot of people outside looking in. Could you talk a little bit about that? And then also if, if you have any ways or if you know of some things that do help with those costs, any, any suggestions to help fix that issue? Could you also expound on that? Yeah, absolutely. So that definitely is one of the hindrances access is a hindrance to so many things and mental health, mental wellness and therapy does not escape that.

And so [00:25:00] I often will say, That, when it comes to accessing therapy first, see if there are resources in your area, often tell people that you can definitely see if there are things or spaces or resources that are there. Cuz the, the honest truth is that there are some communities that don't have resources in their area.

They don't have local resources. And then if you don't have those local resources checking to see if there are some online resources that you are able to access if you have a job, then you have access to mental health. So if you are employed with insurance, I should say that you have insurance on your job.

Good point. Then you have access through your employee assistance program. So EAP HR and can help you access that. The thing with EAP though, is that. They are locally ran. So if you've been in one state and you've done EAP, it may look different in another state or another area. So you always wanna make sure that you check with your HR [00:26:00] department check to see what your EAP package looks like.

Usually there's about five to six sessions of EAP that you are already covered by. And so you wanna check there and EAP doesn't have to be face to face, especially with COVID. A lot of things have been virtual, so there's some virtual resources there. So if you do have a job with insurance, you do have access.

A lot of people don't know that. Right. And so no, they're like, ah, I can't find anything. But, or I don't have the access and you've got that resource there. If you don't have a job that, or you don't have insurance, then, you know, checking to see other things that might be happening in your area. One, if you find a therapist that you really feel like you've connected with.

So if you've looked through psychology today.com where you can resource therapists, great resource. Yes. Great resource. There's also a lot of different Composites of therapists in, on different websites like black therapy for black girls has a resource list [00:27:00] for therapists that you can search by state.

So if you found one, you've read their profile online, you feel like you've connected with them. I often say give them a call. Usually therapists do a very brief 15 to 20 minute just open session where you can ask them questions. Often say, interview your therapist. You can ask them questions, see if it's a good fit.

It's important therapy is like trying on clothes, just because it looks good on the rack. That mean it's gonna fit you, you get it home. And you're like, oh, those lights, I didn't like this. So it doesn't matter how skill somebody is. If you are not comfortable in the room with, with them. Yeah. Then you're not gonna open up to the fullest one.

You're not gonna open up. Exactly. And not every therapist is for everybody, you know? So. See if they offer like a free 20 minute or 15 minute just kind of session, get to know you meet and oftentimes they'll do that. And then during that session, you wanna ask them if they do a sliding scale. So some therapists do a sliding scale where they charge based [00:28:00] off of your income.

They don't go through insurance. They don't charge their Typical fee. All therapists do not do that. It is up to the decision of the therapist to do that. Oh, but some do that. So you just wanna check and you wanna ask and if they don't then ask them, if they know someone who does and sometimes they can refer you to other therapists, other psychologists to do.

So you definitely wanna do that. And you also wanna check resources. Like I said, NAMI has open and free community engagements around mental health and mental therapy. So I've done a couple of NAMI groups. I know a couple of other therapists and other individuals who run NAMI groups as well. So it's still other ways that you can get.

Mental health outside of the traditional therapy office. And that's the full purpose of everyday psychology, right? Because there are so many barriers, especially within the black community to access and being able to experience therapy. And so everyday psychology is all about pulling therapy outside of [00:29:00] the four office walls or pulling mental health outside of the four office walls and talking to communities, talking to organizations and doing a lot of education that can help people become well without always having that hefty therapy bill or your insurance that says you've reached your sessions.

We're not gonna pay anymore. All of those different things that can happen when we run into barriers out there. Let me lemme throw one more out there for everybody. Yes. Vocational rehab is a state agency. That is it's one of these, you know, the conservatives in South Carolina love these little bootstrap help yourself up stuff, but let's use them.

mm-hmm . And if, if you have any kind of mental health situation that would be in impacting your work, your ability to work, your ability to retain a job you can contact vocational rehab of South Carolina, and there are, depending on the situation, you, you can get a number of, of therapy [00:30:00] sessions that the state pays for.

That's perfect. Wow. That's awesome. That's good information. I'm gonna add that to my, to my list of resources. Yeah. And that's no insurance required. That's you can, if you could have lost your job because of a mental health situation and are not sure if you can start another one. And that's what this program is basically for is to make help people be able to continue working.

That's amazing. Yeah. Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. Well This is something we always like to ask folks, especially something for millennials to think about it's important for everybody, but time management and work life balance. And of course, this is something, of course, as a person who works in the self care field just making sure you can walk away from everything once you clock out, making sure that you don't have to take things home that so you can properly recharge and have energy.

So you can also have great mental health. How, how have you dealt with this challenge and what are some things that you do to maintain that [00:31:00] balance? Yeah, that's a great question. And a very important question. At the beginning of my career, I struggled a lot with balancing and self care I would get so wrapped up in the lived experiences of others and it just made it really hard to return to my own reality.

But I, I, I realized that I was really robbing myself of being the best psychologist or the best healer I could be by getting so wrapped up in that. And so it was really imperative that I had to work really hard to maintain balance. And I had a supervisor during one of my training experiences that actually had to assign me.

Self-care like, he was like, wow, I know you're a rule follower. You're gonna do this. If I make it an assignment and literally had to assign self-care that I had to report out on to him every week, which I think was a, it was life changing for me, cuz I thought I was doing self care and balancing by like, oh, I'm gonna.[00:32:00] 

Go for a walk. I'm gonna walk instead of taking the train and it, you know, it's like, well, you're going there anyway. Is that really self-care? Cause you're gonna do work when you get there. Mm-hmm so it's like intentional. Self-care like, what are some things that you can intentionally do to maintain balance in your life?

And so a lot of things that I practice now make balance a little bit more manageable. It doesn't make it easier. It just makes it more manageable. Things like I really try to be kind to myself and allow for mistakes. So. I do that by understanding that when I do make mistakes, I've said that, you know, before that it is a way to fail forward.

It's not a detriment. It's not a failure. That is terminal. There is a way that I can learn through my missteps. And so I often talk about my mistakes in a way of balancing them out. Cause my brain automatically goes through, oh, you did the horrible thing. [00:33:00] How could you make mess up? And so talking about it helps to balance out to say like, what can you learn?

What lessons did you move through? I engage in activities that make me feel effective, not just make me feel good. So things that made me feel good were like, like I said, oh, I'm just gonna take a long shower. That makes me feel good. But how effective does that make me feel when now I can't work out cuz I spent 30 minutes in the shower, like conditioned in my hair, you know?

So, so I do think that that make me feel effective so that could look like working out. But that could also look like. Making sure to pay my bills on time, you know, Hey so those things make me feel effective. They make me feel strong. They make me feel adultish, you know, all of those things mm-hmm so I try to engage in those things that make me feel effective.

I really try to keep a realistic mindset. So I think about difficult things that I've conquered in the past cuz life is hard, you know, like balance is difficult. Mm-hmm, dealing with all of these things. We have so [00:34:00] many hats that we wear at all times and sometimes your brain tells you that you can't do it.

But I keep a realistic mindset. I think about things that I've done in the past that have been hard that I was able to do. And I do that. I say a mantra of I've done hard things. I can do hard things and it really does help me be realistic in what I can and can't carry. And then I also say no, you know, which is, has been.

Historically difficult, the gym right there. That's the gem. But I say no. And I put a, a period at the end. Like I don't explain. I don't say maybe. No. Yeah. There's no, there's no com there's there's no, I, you know and I. I often try to resource people with things. Like I said, at the very beginning, instead of trying to be, I allow myself to not be the expert.

So I'm not the only person, like I don't have a juice, like, and that's okay. I don't need all the juice. Like I give it [00:35:00] to other people. And I say like, no, I can't do this for you right now. But maybe so. And so can, or let me point you to another resource or let me give you something that can help you do this for yourself.

So that's something that helps make you balance a lot these days saying no to others, but more importantly saying no to myself at times when I just wanna do the most with the latest have boundaries for others and for yourself, absolutely. The boundaries should start with yourself in order to keep Bo the whole boundaries with others, for others, you have to have boundaries for yourself.

So I tell people that all the time, like when you are. Setting boundaries with other people. What you're actually doing is setting boundaries with yourself because those other people engaged with you in a way that you allowed. And in a way that you, I'm not gonna say a way you allowed a way that you created space for them to do so.

Right. And so if I am [00:36:00] constantly finding that my family members are piling on me instead of just saying to them, I want you to stop doing that. Then I also need to say to myself, how can I make sure that I don't create space for that to happen? So how can I say no when I really wanna help and give this money this time, you know, but I know I don't have it.

So how can I make sure that I don't overextend myself and then. Experience resentment because they keep coming. Right? Right. So the only thing, the only being that we can control is ourselves. And so setting boundaries always starts with yourself and then it starts to move into those other relationships.

That's hard. Ain't, I'm a cancer. Are you really? Me too. You got some aquarium somewhere in your, in your char. You got, that is so funny. I actually get along very well with aquarium women, aquarium men though, you know, we have, we have our [00:37:00] issues. They're a little, little too wishy washy for, well, yeah, they say cancers and aquariums, but, but I'm a, I'm an aquarium, moon and a cancer son.

My wife's an aquarium. Somehow we work it out. You work it out. No, yes. I I'm a cancer sunshine, a cancer sunshine. And so saying no is hard cause I wanna, you know, care and mother every night. Yeah. It's for a different reason for us. We just, we just gotta pour everything we got out for everybody. Just have

But before we go to the next question, sorry, can you talk about, you know, meditation? Cause I know I did a guided meditation with you a couple weeks ago and I loved it. So just absolutely a little bit more about that being in your work life balance. I absolutely love meditation. I do meditations a group meditation every Saturday.

So I did one right before this recording. And meditation is a huge part of how I pull away from. The things that I carry in my mind. [00:38:00] So when you talk about balance and you talk about leaving the stories of others behind, when you talk about cuz you get so much of that in therapy meditation allows me to center myself into come from all of the static that happens, the white noise, the pink noise that happens in our lives.

So I practice meditation quite often. And meditation practice is a little bit different than just doing a couple meditations here and there. I practice daily mindfulness, which allows. Yeah. So I, so I, my practice is mindfulness and I do that through meditation. And so it's, it's about daily.

Daily, like you said, just finding it's the only way you can really feel the difference. If you do it daily for yourself a few weeks, you'll be like, oh, well, there I go. That's all I need to do. Why don't I, you start you experience it. Exactly. It's, it's just that experience of going within yourself in order to find peace and, and joy and also dive into [00:39:00] difficult things.

So I do really quick meditations for people. I help people kind of start their practice with meditation. I help guide people through that practice. It really does help with decreasing anxiety. It slows down your heart. It really allows for your Mind to slow down. So it has these physical effects.

And what it really does is it tricks your brain into thinking that you're in a sleeping state, basically. So when we're asleep, our body just kind of slows down and kinda regenerates itself, sleep is so important. But it, it allows your body to do that in awake, in an awake state or in a conscious state.

And so. Meditation is a huge part of, of my balancing practice. And I tell people all the time, if you are interested in trying out meditation, there's so many different ways that you can do that. If you don't have somebody to help guide you through it, you can always use the calm app. They have a free version.

You don't have to pay for it. You can find med free [00:40:00] meditations online. Our podcast three sec and a mic we do meditation series annually. So we have a three part meditation series that's already there. We're actually in the middle of a three part meditation series right now. And it's all about being mindful of your body being mindful of what's around you.

And slowing down, we don't slow down in this society. And so it just gives you the space to do that. Man that's bad. That's dope, man. I know there's a, there's a study that the CIA has, has done in the past about meditation and mindfulness and using it as a way to trigger. Healing in the body mm-hmm and it was a very interesting study.

They did this over a course of probably 10 to 20 years. This is how, like, it was a long form study and it showed that people who are extremely adept or skilled at meditation, they can get the same effects of healing that you get, like you were saying from sleep. Yeah. But while being awake and it almost as if it, it [00:41:00] supercharges it, so it speeds up that healing process because they're actually awake.

I just thought that was a really interesting thing. Especially in fact, they just talked about that in that sense that it is not like kooky science or anything like that. It's a actual well thing that has been proven to be effective. It's a mind hack. We, we learn. Yeah. There are things we can do that can, I mean, if you think about it, your brain is the greatest chemical factory in the world.

Everything that you experience, all, all the joys, all the pains, all of that comes from a chemical inside your brain being released at the right moment. And if you can gain control over that and, and you. Trigger these things when you need them to, and, and meditation and yoga is the path to do that. Yeah, absolutely.

It's it's, you know, if I don't wanna geek out about it, but it's all about your nerve. Go ahead. Geek out. oh yeah. We're the geek people. You hear what we're talking about? yeah, it's all about like, so your nervous system, you know, your autonomic [00:42:00] nervous system and you have the sympathetic and the parasympathetic nervous system and the sympathetic nervous system often sympathizes with the, like what's happening around you.

So it sympathizes with pain, it sympathizes with fear and it really revs up your body. So when there is anxiety or panic or worry, that's happening, your sympathetic nervous system is. Active. And it really starts to say like, oh my goodness, like, let me make sure that I have enough blood flowing. I have enough oxygen in my system that I, that fight or flight response that we talk about.

It really. Kicks that on and it says, Hey, I need you to rev up. And so your body revs up and your breathing shortens and that's kind of the key point with meditation. So your breathing is shortened, which means you're getting more blood flow. You're getting more oxygen in your blood. Your heart's pumping faster and your body can exist in that state, but [00:43:00] it's not supposed to exist in that state long term.

But when we experience daily stressors that kick in that nervous system, it overwhelms our system, which is why a heart attack happens. Or we gain weight cause our digestion system changes. But when you start to enact. Other part of your nervous system, the parasympathetics like a parachute. So it comes down with the calmness, right?

So it allows your heart. Oh, remember to slow down. It allows your breathing to slow. So when you're meditating, you're slowing, you're breathing. You're really focusing in on your breathing, which helps your body say, oh, we're safe. So we don't need to kick into high gear. So my heart rate can slow. My brain can slow down.

My body can go into this state of regeneration because we're not in danger. So that fight or flight response kicks off. And so that's why meditation. Is really healing for your body. And the practice of meditation [00:44:00] is something that allows for your body to start to learn. It's kind of like when you go to the gym and you work out certain muscles, if you skip leg day, then your legs start to atrophy, right?

If you skip really nourishing that parasympathetic nervous system, it starts to atrophy. And so it's really hard to get into a calm state. So day to day practice is like day to day leg day, right? So it really strengthens that part of your nervous system and allows for your heart and your brain and your body and your digestion system and all of those things to operate at a slower, more healthy pace.

So that's my little geek moment. But little bit of lesson for, for why it's important and why it's helpful. Has nothing to do with you know, it can have things to do with religion, but I hear a lot of people saying I don't do that because I'm, I'm Christian and that's not that doesn't line up with what I do or, you know, I've heard a lot of just misconstrued things about spirituality and meditation.

It can be spiritual, [00:45:00] but it isn't always it has a very practical use. It's like saying I will not, I will not drink this type of water. yeah, because I don't like how it tastes. It's a, it's just a tool. It's just a tool. I always try to explain it to people. Yeah. Well, and I think just ideally, if, if you are a spiritual person, then everything is spiritual, you know, mm-hmm yeah.

And

Well, that's a huge discussion, but yeah, any day that's true. We can jump all day. Won't we'll do, we'll do a yoga episode later on. Please. Can we, can I get really frigging weird? Can we do that one day? I'd love to. Yeah, we'd be dope. Excellent. Well I, I guess that, that leads, you actually already started talking about this, but you, you started in it was September, 2019.

You and your two of your colleagues, they actually, you all launched the three sites and a mic podcast. Did yeah, man, could you talk to our audience a little bit about at podcast and I guess the big thing is whenever you do [00:46:00] or create content based on a profession that you're in. People think that you're just gonna, boom shoot, right off.

Be ready to roll that you don't have prep much for it. Cause you're a natural, like they said, it's like, if Michael Jordan talking about basketball on a podcast, you, you would guess it'd be the best . So could you talk to our audience about your podcast, what you all talk about and then how much prep and preparation do you do?

Getting ready for the podcast? Yeah, absolutely. So three psychs in the mic was a brain child of mine because the crazy thing about all of my friends is that most of them are therapists. Which, you know, it's pros and cons to that. And we would have these really cool conversations. Like we just did about like the parasympathetic nervous system and like, you know, why it's important to do meditation and all this stuff.

And we connected to like a little Wayne story that we read in the news or something crazy. Oh wow. And we were like, you know [00:47:00] what? I think this would be really cool for people to hear for a number of reasons, one education that's always a stance. But two for them to realize that psychology isn't just like old stuffy white man in a.

Room, you know, like you're not laying on the couch, like it's cool and it can be cool and, you know, just give people this idea that, you know, psychology is accessible and it's not this far reaching thing. So we decided to start that podcast. And I had it in my mind for a very, very long time. And one.

Event. I did a panel with Charlie pin, who is a farmer, former editor at essence. She just recently left. And she had a podcast called yes girl. And I was on a panel with her and I told her about this podcast and she was like, you should just do it, like just hit record. And one Saturday, I was like, you know what?

Y'all. We were just sitting over here, like you said, 2019 [00:48:00] pre COVID. So we were like, let's just record an episode around why black people don't go to therapy. And that was our first episode titled black people don't do therapy. And we just talked a little bit about just the importance of, well, one why black people don't do therapy.

Why it's important for black people to do therapy and like how to knock down some of those stigmas that we carry in our community around therapy. And so ever since then, we've been recording at first, we started recording weekly episodes. But I'll move into how much work that is . Yeah. And so now we work biweekly episodes.

There's a lot of work. Our episodes are really about Just the whole wide range of human experience. So we of course talk a little bit about the scientific part of psychology. So we have episodes on depression, anxiety medication Because people often have misconceptions about medication to help with managing mental health.

We have episodes on suicide [00:49:00] episodes on sex and therapy and like all of these different things, but we also have episodes on insecure and friendships and how to, you know, and Molly and Issa were going through their thing, like how to deal with a friendship breakup and all of these different things that are a part of the full experience.

We have a really cool episode with two of our colleagues, two black male psychologists called toxic masculinity. And what is that? And so we're talking about just fun, the experience of being human and digging into it's. Yeah, right. I'm glad you glad you made that distinction. Toxic masculinity is the best

but they had some it's really interesting. They had some really cool ideas around toxic masculinity that pushed us as women a little bit, you know? So that was a really fun episode, a lot, lot of banter . But you know, so we have Upwards of almost a hundred episodes now we've been doing it [00:50:00] for the last Bravo Bravo three years.

Oh, wow. Yeah. That's that's great. Yeah. So we've been doing it for a while. They are amazing psychologists in their own. Right. And it's, it's been a lot of fun, but on the flip side of that, it is a lot of work. So we don't just get on and talk, you know, I think people have that misconception of podcasts.

Yeah. Which you just get on and you're just like, let's just talk exactly. We don't do that. We do a lot of prep. We do a lot of research. We really wanna make sure that we give people information that they can use. Just because we're psychologist doesn't mean that we have expertise in all areas of psychology.

We all work in different fields or different parts of psychology. So we have different expertise. And we really make sure that we bring guests that can bring different expertise as well. But we make it fun. It's not like a lesson you're not in class. We don't look at it as though you're in class.

We really wanted to be like the right. the cool kids of psychology. So that's something that's really fun. It's, it's a really cool part [00:51:00] of, like I said, bringing psychology into the community. We give a lot of lessons and recommendations that allow for people to gain without having to pay us. We don't charge therapy bills after that.

That's really dope. Yeah. I know I've listened to a couple episodes. I'm on like episode 11 and I just love guys are like my girlfriend,

you guys, so really enjoy the connection from being on the audio and then meeting you in real life. Really quick question, someone brought to me. So you said a lot of your friends are, are in the same field, but who do you guys speak to? Do you guys have therapists or? Yeah, absolutely. I have had, I have, like, my therapist is on speed dial.

I'm like, yo, I need to talk to you. So my, my main therapist is still in Minnesota, which I am so grateful for [00:52:00] them. Working with me outta state Love love, love, love them. They're more of a mentor now. Since we have licensing laws in different states and things like that, so we don't do formal therapy.

But we each have therapists. I'm not gonna give their business away, but I certainly have exactly therapist . I certainly have a therapist that I go to mostly for maintenance at this point. And I say that because there are times where you may not need a therapist and there are times where you actually do need a therapist.

And yes, the cool thing about having friends that are therapists and just having friends in general, there have been moments where they've been like, sorry, you think you might need to go to therapy. And you know, like we said, we're, we don't see things. We need people to point those things out. And I'm like, you know what?

I probably should. You know, and even as a psychologist, there are moments where, where I miss it and, and friends are like, yeah, you, you probably need to go to therapist to a therapist right now. But yeah, you know, I [00:53:00] am one of those people who don't preach what I don't do. And so I certainly say that my therapist has been a lifesaver for many, many times, and I say that with all honesty.

But it's more for maintenance when I need to go as opposed to moments that I've had to, like I've had to go. So I like to make that distinction that you should always have a therapist somewhere. That's another thing that we don't see in the, the TV version of, of therapy is that, that, you know, it's, it's not like you go once a week forever, you go to accomplish a goal.

Yeah. And then. Re evaluate if there's something else that needs to be handled, but really you should be learning these abilities to do it for yourself. Yes. I often say my job is to put myself out of business. Like I don't want people to be sick, you know? Yes. I really want people to be healed and to be able to like move on their own.

So yeah. That's, that's key now. How I like that. Do you think it is [00:54:00] to have a, a therapist that can relate to you, like a person of color? Or do you think that really defines the type of impact you get during the session? I, I saw that on a recent I think it was Tara P Henson's piece of mind, pod podcast, or show she has on Facebook.

And they were talking about how you should find someone that can relate to you or is relatable. Yeah. You know, I think. Again. Yes and no because of the reality, right? So I get a lot of people who will contact me cuz I specifically the work that I do, I don't do individual therapy at this time. I am more like you said, like consulting I work with community groups, organizations, that type of thing.

And so I get people coming to me all the time and saying like, Hey I know you're not doing therapy. Do you have someone that you can refer me to and I'll say, yeah, sure. You know, and then I'll ask them, what are your preferences? Right. Because I do think that's important. And so sometimes people will say, oh, I want a psychologist.

I want a black woman and I want face to face [00:55:00] and they'll be here in Columbia and I'll say, well, there are no black psychologists that are women that are doing work in private practice which is greatly unfortunate. So if you looking for a career out there. Yeah. If you are, if you're looking for a career, sure.

We need black women who are doing therapy. And I say in private practice, Because there are black women who are psychologists in Columbia, but they work for institutions. Right. So got it. There are blacks and women who are psychologists that work for the VA, but you have to be a veteran or there are black women, there are psychologists that work for The university of South Carolina, but you have to be a student, you know?

So there are certain things that like, if you want to just go into somebody's community office, there aren't any black psychologists. If you're open to like a LPC or a marriage and family therapist or something like that, then we may have a little bit more work to do or more to work with. So we can find you someone.

So there are limitations. You may be in a space that you [00:56:00] don't have access to someone who doesn't look like you. You don't want that to be the hindrance for why you don't go to therapy. Right? So I say, if you are in a space where you can find somebody that looks like you, great, you can try them out.

But again, just because I look like you doesn't mean I'm gonna connect with you or you're gonna connect with me. So I tell people all the time to do that intro phone call to see if you connect with people, give therapists three sessions. Three to five, well, I'll say three gives therapists three sessions.

See if you connect with them, if you don't, it's okay to fire your therapist. We understand if you say, you know, I just really don't feel the connection. And I don't think that I can be able to make the progress that I'd like to make in our relationship. Can you refer me to someone else and usually therapists, we don't take it personal.

We're like, yeah, cuz we really, truly do want you to be able to progress and to get to healing. So the, the [00:57:00] good side is yes. If you can find somebody who looks like you and you relate to, and that you connect with that's great. If you can't, don't let that be your barrier. And just because I've been through what you've been through, doesn't mean I can tell you how to do it, you know, so.

If you're looking for someone who has experienced exactly what you've experienced then sometimes that isn't going to be the best match. I don't have children, but I can certainly talk to parents around self care and how to set boundaries and how to balance and things like that. And so I think being open minded to understanding that you might get a therapist that you love that in a million years, you're like, I would probably never talk to this person if I passed them on the street, but they're an amazing therapist, you know?

And so don't close off walls just because you don't see yourself on the other side. Good advice. Good advice. Long gain. I think that could be a hindrance. Nah, was great advice cuz I know, especially like you said, we, [00:58:00] we were talking about access earlier in the conversation and part of access issues for some people, like you said is just not feeling as if.

Based on who the person is. If they don't look like them or et cetera, they think they make that prejudgment that they won't be comfortable. Mm-hmm . But I love the advice that you gave of interviewing your, your your provider and making sure that they're gonna be able that's the smartest thing ever, and one ever work for you explains that it's like, I work for you and psychology today has almost like a, like a Facebook or a LinkedIn kind of thing where you can kind of check out your, your therapist yeah.

Ahead of time. That's that's dope. Yeah. Yeah. And you get to see like what their like, treatment style is. So it's always like with, with therapy, you wanna find someone who treats what you're experiencing. Mm-hmm, everyone, isn't an expert in everything. So you may have therapists that don't work with trauma, or you may have therapists that [00:59:00] don't work with certain things or, you know, they, they, they aren't in, I don't wanna say they aren't an expert in it.

They haven't fully trained in how to work in that. Cuz if you think about the human experience, there's so many different intricacies, right? Who are you telling? Yeah. And so you, we're not expected to know how to work with everything, you know, a Jack of Jack of all trades master of none. So we don't want that.

We want, you want to find a therapist that is knowledgeable about what you're experiencing and in that interview you can ask them questions. Like, have you ever worked with someone who's experiencing what I'm going through? , you know, how difficult is it for you to sit in a space where I might be talking about trauma and hear what they say, you know, listen to what they say.

They work for you. And so you wanna hire someone who is going to fit what you need. And if. You start and you think they might, and then you find out that they don't, I'm saying, you know, fire 'em , you know, I like how you say that [01:00:00] fire 'em it's like, it's, you're breaking up, breaking up with somebody.

Nope. I don't want this relationship. Exactly. But like you said that usually it's not a problem. Yeah. It's usually not a problem. And you know, I've walked through, I've walked a couple of friends through firing their therapist. And of course, you know, you don't wanna no show and cuz then you get no show fees and all that stuff.

Yeah. But you can have a conversa and it's a hard conversation to have. But you can have a conversation with your therapist around feeling as though it's not a good fit and oftentimes they will understand and help you walk into your next therapist. Because we don't want people to say, well, I went to one therapist, it wasn't working.

So now I don't do therapy. I give up on all. Yeah. Yeah. That's not helpful for anyone. Oh, wow, man. Well man, this is an excellent conversation, man. You're extremely knowledgeable and sharp and you have a calming presence. You've you made the conversation smooth, man. This has been fun. [01:01:00] yeah, likewise, likewise.

And I, I must ask cuz of course we we're getting to that point where we're about to get ready to wrap up. We always ask, what projects are you currently working on? And also of course, how can we locate you online or on social media? Yeah. Yeah. I always have some things in the work. Always doing something.

Recently I've been writing quite a bit some hopes of releasing something soon related to community and organizational trauma. So hopefully doing a little bit of that I'm still taking, I'm always taking coaching clients, executive coaching clients teaching mental wellness throughout the community.

I've got some upcoming sessions with blue cross blue shield. Original origins of health and wellness. I'm always doing work at inspire wellness. You can also find me on Instagram and Facebook at everyday psychology LLC. And my website is www doctor Shari, Nicole with the C dot com. And that's where you can read all that you want about me.

You can [01:02:00] listen to the podcast there, you can read blogs there. You can read about everyday psychology. You can contact me through that site. And if you're interested in hearing more from me that's the best way to connect with me there. Excellent. Excellent. Well, before I, before we get outta here today any other questions or anything for the guests from the.

Nope. You did a great job. Thank you. Ke said in the background, you calmed his daughter down sharp. Oh, very

nice. your voice, your voice, that voice. That's hilarious. Look, I'm, I'm glad that I am a psychologist. I was like, if I wasn't a psychologist, then I could be, you know, a different type of operator on the phone. I' gonna say God, yo, but I'm play this. You'll surprised I've had, like, when I do meditations with clients, I've had them say like, can I record your voice?

That's

no, listen. During the guided [01:03:00] meditation I did with you a couple weeks ago, I was like, I wonder if I should record her? Like, would she feel offended? And I was like, no, lemme just enjoy the experience. Enjoy the experience. Next time I can slip a recording in there. Cause your voice really is calm. Well, thank you.

Thank you. Yes, this is a moment it's probably audiobooks audiobook audiobook. Oh yeah. Now that would be dope. Absolutely. well man, again, man, this is a excellent interview today. We want to thank our guests, Dr. Shri day for joining us today on the Hilltop Glo Hilltop glove podcast. Man, before we get outta here, I always like to tell people, man be, have a great peaceful weekend.

Say you love say, say, give out love and, and gratitude to those people around you, who you care about and who care about you. And yes, please do. Especially right now in this day and age and the stuff we're dealing with right now. And with that said, man, everybody have a, a peaceful prosperous upcoming week.

Thank you for joining us. This is all we're shining out. Yeah, man. DJM what, right [01:04:00] here. We got Tamaya. Mike, we got the whole game today and skip in the background. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. And we will see you all on the next episode of the Hilltop glove podcast piece.