Has the Hip-Hop community been miseducated when it comes to the legal system?
THG talks with Sean Wilson. Sean is a Charleston-based attorney and owner of the Law Office of Sean M. Wilson. A Columbia, SC native, Sean is a graduate of the College of Charleston and Charleston School of Law.
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s02e01 | Sean Wilson
[00:00:00] All right. Good, good morning, everybody. Welcome back to the Hilltop gloves season two. Of course when you co-host skip today, I'm accompanied by chorus, Mike DJ. And what, and we're going to be talking today too. I'm Sean Wilson. An attorney. Perfect. So we'll go ahead. So some information about Shawn Shawn is Charleston, South Carolina based attorney and operator of the law offices of Sean Wilson.
Sean is a Columbia, South Carolina native. He's a graduate of CFC, and he also went to the Charleston school of law. Sean specializes in civil and construction litigation, wrongful deaths, accidents, personal injuries, and work-related injuries. In addition Sean is very involved in his community serving as a board member with Cobra, which stands for the community, the committee on better racial assurance or Cobra human services.
And they focus on sickle cell anemia. Charlotte is also a former chair of the Dorchester democratic party. He's [00:01:00] adjunct professor at Charleston school of law, where he teaches a class called the elements of pre-trial litigation. How are you doing this morning? Bang. Good morning doing well this morning.
How are y'all doing and good man. Good man. Awesome. Well, I appreciate y'all having me on the show and I'm proud of you guys and all the time. Oh, likewise, likewise, man, like I said, we've all like, you know, cause we've known each other for quite a while now. I think as a matter of fact, I think we've known you now since gosh, at least since 2004, so 15, 16 years.
Absolutely. Yeah man. Yeah, man. I remember when you went back, he used to cover the jail. The bus started asking her a ball
that was too loud.
Yeah. Yeah, man. Like it goes way back man, way back. But one of the things, reasons why we wanted to get you on [00:02:00] today was with our CS. And one of the reasons we started out at podcast was we wanted to talk to different people, especially like in our age range, like millennial age range that we know that are, you know, movers and shakers in our community that are, you know, doing big things.
But at the same time, they're very grounded in their day to day. And just talking to them, just talking about just the obstacles they face and doing what they need to do. But then at the same time, maybe some tips, advice that you can give to other people that are in similar situation that are trying to do a little bit more, who kind of want to be motivated.
And we thought that you would be an excellent person to talk to because like and like, I'll say, continue to say this through our conversation since day one, I've known you. You've always been a person who's been very serious. And meaning that you've always seen very, you were always very purpose-driven you always very focused and it's awesome to see just from back then, from when, like I knew you from school, just to see your growth and to see how that's transitioned to like into the adult life [00:03:00] and your professional life.
And it's dope seeing that growth, especially from somebody that you've seen you known for many years, man. I appreciate that. And you know, likewise, same I say for you and I'm definitely following you guys and you know, all that. Definitely. Definitely. We appreciate it. We'll go ahead and get started. So of course we know that you, you know, you have your own law practice.
One of the, the beauty of launching your own law practices, like unlike many businesses, you don't eat much to get started. Of course, the education and the training, you know, of course all that stuff. But as far as things like the actual brick and mortar, you know, you need, you know, of course you need technology, you know, you gotta take care of overhead costs, you know, maintaining website name and your practice malpractice insurance, all great things to get started.
Some benefits to starting your own practice are of course, you know, you have the ability to do more [00:04:00] law. You have control of your client's selection and you have a chance to develop a business model that works for you. So the question is at what age did, did you make the decision to write this law? And what were some of the obstacles or pivotal moments you faced on your journey to start in your own practice?
Man? I think early on, I knew since elementary school was probably been a goal of mine to go to law school. You know, I know we laughed earlier about us playing basketball, but I knew it, you know, my parents was pretty, you know, they were adamant that I wouldn't go into the NBA, so they weren't,
they were, they were realistic, you know? So they, they, they didn't try to give me any false fairy tale advantages or stuff like that. So, you know, They realized that education was big for us and me and all my brothers, you know, reading and going to the library. And, you know, [00:05:00] really educating ourselves at an early age was something that I wanted to do.
So I knew early on probably like elementary school. Cause a lot of the books that I would read would be biographies and, you know, and I would always talk to my family and my parents about like history and one of the things like brown vs board of education. And we would go through clarity and county and in a way to Georgetown, sometimes I would see the signs and I would ask my mom about it, or I ask my mom all about how I was busing and my dad about busing and growing up.
And I still ask these questions today and. Initially. I was like, man, I want to be like a civil rights lawyer and do stuff like that. And what I seen other people doing in the civil rights movement and what I read about. And it just kept going and going and going and, and, and here we are today. Thank God.
Wow. Cause you know, sometimes when you talk to people that [00:06:00] want to be doctors or lawyers or whatever, it's purely a financial or a class kind of thing that they're just trying to, to, you know, to get paid, you were really trying to make a difference. Absolutely. It was never, it was never about the money, you know, and, and when talking to my family and friends and we never wanted to do anything just for money and if you're doing something just for money, right.
You will have the passion. You know, I love practicing law. I love doing what I do. It's a very demanding schedule, a demanding job, but I wouldn't have it any other way. I would, I couldn't see myself doing anything else, but what I'm doing today. And so to be able to live out a lifelong dream that you work hard to kind of build and continue to build, it's a blessing.
Most definitely, as far as when you were in school and you [00:07:00] were kind of making that like I guess, cause once you got into CA could, I guess, you know, you want to be a lawyer of course growing up, but when you got to college, what were some of the adjustments you think you had to make or ways that you focus that are things you had to put into motion to kind to make sure to ensure that you were on that path to making sure you transitioned from undergrad to law school, to where you start.
So you had a practice. A lot, man. I I'll even go back as far as high school to college and that transition was hard because yeah, you, you know, smart and you made decent grades and you able to translate into college. However, the learning path was different. No, I remember going to like professors like Dr.
Word or things like an English teacher of mine freshman year. And I thought I was a pretty good writer, but just seeing them blue marks on your paper,
realizing that it took so much [00:08:00] work to be better. And I like to always get better and make sure that I was getting better. And so I knew that I had to kind of work. It was, it was, it was tough. Just the transition of just learning and changing the way I thought changing the way I write changing the way that I communicated changing.
It was completely different. And so, you know, I was one of those students that just really had to work pretty hard. You know, it never really came super easy to me for every class. So did more than others would not, not all of them. And one of the things that I did as far as preparing is I knew early on what I wanted my major to be.
So I declared freshman year, like political science, pretty low. And I went in early on trying to get to that path as, as to what I wanted to do in that aspect. So I declared pretty early and started trying to see what I needed to do early. [00:09:00] And then I realized that if I wanted to do this. Then I needed to possibly take it seriously and really start working for attorneys and understanding the intricacies of a law firm and what it did and how did it help people?
Because yeah, I read books about it and, but I didn't know any attorneys, you know, nobody in my lawyer and, you know, only, only attorneys I saw was on television. You know,
have any friends that were attorneys, you know, folks who are just hard work and common blue collar people, which are all good people. And so I didn't know how it was going to happen. And so one day. No talking to student resources about maybe trying to find a job and actually I've applied for different jobs.
One was at Edward Jones and then one was at, on the law office of getting the [00:10:00] how's of all good mentor of mine today. And he'll kind of change the trajectory of my life. And so what I did was I applied to both of them and. I got the job at Edward Jones. And I was like, wow. You know, I can go to the financial world and hear all these great things.
And then I ended up, it was funny cause it was raining. And you know, when you go to school where the college of Charleston is sunny outside and it was, I'll never forget, it was, I had the interview. So I was like, man, I'm gonna go ahead and put my clothes on. So I don't have to rush out the class to get to that man.
I came out, he didn't have an umbrella or nothing. The son only had one suit at all. And I was like, man. So I ended up getting so, I mean, it was like rain. So I'm like, man, I gotta change real quick. So I had a pair of [00:11:00] khakis. And on button up shirt, I was like, okay, let me change any of this. And then I went into the interview loop really was, was office manager at the time I got arrested.
So good friend of mine had passed away at work for getting his office. And he interviewed me. But first when I went in, I was just like, man, I apologize. You know, my suit got rained on and I only had one suit and you know, but I went in and started and we, we talk and, you know, he called me back probably about 30 minutes after I had left and said, Hey, can you start Monday?
And I was like, yes. And it worked out and it changed my life. I went to like S and K that weekend and I was like, man, I gotta get me some more.
You explain to people what K is. Cause you just, you just went back on us a little bit right there. They don't know what that is. They don't even know what, as in K it exists no more with
[00:12:00] men's warehouse before men's warehouse had like really good clothing. I actually, funny story is I went in there the same day. They asked me for a job to
job down, but I gave it, I said, you know, Matt might be interested. And he worked, he worked there for a little while and realized the commission was hard. So he didn't do it too long at all. I bought some clothes, went in Monday morning, just focused and ready to go and just really. Learning from there on that job kind of changed my life changed the way I thought y'all changed the way that I saw the world.
And I didn't realize how broad the spectrum was. It opened up, my horizons expanded me to think differently and I was always [00:13:00] ambitious, but I think having that job made me realize like, man, you know, my ambition can be even broader. It can, you know, there's more to life than what I really can, could do.
Exactly. Exactly. Well, I know what is so valuable. I always try to push that on the students. When I was at the college, working as a counselor is just getting into internship as soon as you could. And that was a good point. You made Sean about. Picking like choosing your path as soon as you have the opportunity.
So you can start seeing what some of the hardships would be, the pitfalls, what you needed to have as a foundation, the different paths you needed to get to where you could be quote, unquote successful, or get your foot in the door. Because a lot of folks don't understand that those things take time. And when you're, if you waste your time it's gonna take you.
I always tell him, it's like, you gotta do two, three times the amount of work to make up that, that miss [00:14:00] time. So you can actually catch yourself up. But I like how you put that. I do have one question for you though. Shaw. When you, when you started off going into your college education and this, this is just based on what you were saying earlier, it seems as if you were pretty interested in history, I was see, cause that's how I started off.
Yeah. Oh yeah. I was telling you about it. Those two things are very intertwined. And I just thought that was interesting that you brought that point up about being interested in your history. How does your, how does that affect your ability to do what you do now? You just having a understanding of the history.
I mean, I think history just makes the world go around. I think that we need to know what yesterday was just to get to what today is. And I think, you know, today's society don't really pay attention to what the history is. I mean, you got. People in industries that don't even know who came before them and set the groundwork and set the pathways.
So me wanting to [00:15:00] know the lay of the land and kind of know, okay, who are these people who are the people that I need to know who are the people that I need to shake the hand just from a Leo history standpoint was so important, but just from a broader scope of just knowing who I was and who I came from and where I came from, excuse me, and where my family came from, that was big.
So wanting to know that aspect of history. So a lot of the stuff that I would read would be history books, or biographies or documentaries about just where it is and that, and that still kind of translate to some of my interests today. I mean, it was still a history book and some people that know me call me an old soul because it's like, man,
it's not that it's just, you know, I just think. We have to appreciate where we came from and where we're to understand where we are actually gone knowledge [00:16:00] right there. Yes, that's true. Exactly. So this is the, what I was about to ask you to another question. I didn't know you were from Georgetown, you know my own, we're not, we have relatives in Georgetown.
No, I was, I was born in Columbia, but I'm an original Memorial hospital. But my parents are actually from Georgetown. My mom's deceased now. She passed away in 2015, him and my father, they both went to what they call Rosemary high school. And then they were actually as they were finishing up bus and it, it, they kind of went through the integration process of desegregation and Rosemary turned into Andrew's high school.
So, you know, just talking to my parents about some of those things and it was like, man, you see that on TV, but man, your parents actually went through. The transition of, of doing busing and desegregation and all of that stuff. And so [00:17:00] I don't really knew, know if they really understood the magnitude of the history that they were going through at that particular time.
Now he talked to them about it, but just, you know, picking their brain or growing up about that was really something that was interesting to me. That is a very unique perspective to be able to have that from your parents. And this has, I guess, this has somewhat to do with a question more along the lines of like hip hop, hip hop community, and more like a cultural, like the way we look at the legal world.
And I thought this would be a great question to ask. Is of course, you know, when it comes to the hip hop community and just the larger black community, when we think about illegal world, we usually tend to think about it in the scope of the criminal justice system. So a lot of times we're inundated with posts on social media about, you know, such and such got arrested, you know, such as such as on trial, you know, things like that.
And that's how we think about, that's pretty much the [00:18:00] extent of how people think about law and, you know, law legal, you know, legal world in general.
Right. So, you know, so while our history of dealing with the criminal justice system is. Of course it's just with our history in this country as a whole there are other aspects of the legal system that we must be aware about and such as like wills or workers' comp you know, contracts, things of that nature.
Yeah. So most recently there was a story covering, you know, of course everybody knows DMX recently passed and there was a story in the aftermath covering the legal ramifications of it, where his long-time girlfriend was unable to claim ownership of his estate due to his lack of will. And I'm not being married despite their longterm relationship, because you know what, there are a lot of people in our community like, man, marriage is just on paper, it'll vain, anything, you know, blah, blah, blah.
[00:19:00] As a result of that, and I don't know their, what their situation was, but because they weren't married, she wasn't entitled to any of the estate or to fortunately because of that situation they had. And just maybe just the lack of understanding that, you know, legal issues. So in your opinion what are some ways we we can promote better understanding of legal resources and information within our community.
Stay off of Google.
I mean, I love Google. I really do. And it's very helpful, but I think we have so many Google lawyers today and, and, and really intuitive. You know, more research that we can do to better understand ourselves. And even as lawyers is so much things that we can do to make it transparent to the world and the client, because even before I even practice a lot and realize how broad the spectrum was for law in it, it really [00:20:00] didn't really think about it that much.
Yeah. I saw criminal and, and growing up, I was like, yeah, criminal lawyer that, you know, it never dawned on me about personal injury or workers' compensation, or, you know, I, I did hear about the civil rights stuff. And like I said earlier, I read about it and it was ma I'm pretty fascinated by it, but I didn't really understand how all of that.
Really worked. And so it's, it's a lot and understanding the ins and outs of it is, is something that's going to take a lot of time. So one to answer your question, we have to do careful and calculated research, but now we have to really leave it in the hands of the experts. You know, I think there's a big distrust with the general population and public with lawyers, you know, cause so many bad lawyer jokes out there.
So many people that don't, [00:21:00] and, and that has made it really hard for people to even want to even communicate with attorneys or even trust attorneys. And so one, they don't even really want to hear. What we got to say is because you know, they've been wrong in so many ways. Bias some lawyers and, and it kind of one bad apple kind of ruins the whole bunch, you know?
And, and I think the distrust is something that has caused the problem. And so he was like, man, I'm not paying them now. I'm not doing that. I can go on Google and kind of do this, or this is right. So there's a lot of miseducation went on and, and legal zoom and you know, a lot of things out there that, yeah, well, yeah.
How do you feel about those? Like those, yeah, like legal zoom and even the, what is it like the monthly subscriptions to lawyers? How do you, how do you, how do those things, how do you think those affect the [00:22:00] industry serves a purpose for what it does, but I mean, I think you get what you pay for. You know, and, and I was even, I even think I even got to tell myself that all the time when I'm buying stuff, oh, well, let me pay a little higher premium to get a better, a better quality of service of what I need.
And then two, you got to make sure that you get a good fit, you know, cause every case isn't for every lawyer, every client isn't for every lawyer, every situation isn't for every lawyer. So understanding that, Hey, you know, there's a lawyer that does probate and wills and estate planning. There's a lawyer that does criminal law.
There's a lawyer that does family and law and domestic relations. There's a lawyer that, you know, does personal injury and. Staying in that area, you know, and, and going back to even the history, I think at one time, you know, you had more general practices where people kind of focused on all of those things, but you know, now it's just kind of narrowed down.
[00:23:00] It's a lie and it's a lot to kind of stay abreast on the laws. So I kind of just focus on navigating the areas of law that I work in because it's a lot just doing what I do. So I couldn't imagine just trying to do state planning and criminal law and all of that stuff, but going back towards it, In a DMX situation, RPDM mix.
He was, you know, one of my favorite rappers growing up and in that situation was heavily in the news. But knowing that, Hey, the legal stamp, the standard of marriage and the importance of marriage and, and, and what are your legal rights when you are married? That's so important. And not that legal documentation means so much more to have it than to not have it.
And it's, so it's not that the system is trying to pick on you for not being married, but, you know, having a certified [00:24:00] marriage means certain rights that are entitled to you. So you know, that that's something that you have to really listen to and, and get counsel with and really kind of understand. So, you know, pay to consultation, to talk to different people in their areas and practicing, and kind of understand those things and, and.
And for DMX to say, you know, let's, I don't know his situation or anything like that, but just for people that I know, we don't want to talk about the inevitable like death. Yeah. You know, you know, what's going to happen to all of us. So getting an estate put together is so important having a will and a, on a healthcare power of attorney or a trust and all of those things and going to the right people that handle those, those types of things that makes it so much more valuable and having businesses and assets.
And what happens to these things when I pass away is, is so, so influential to know. So doing [00:25:00] careful research, but, you know, trusting into the experts to, to talk to them about it. And in a really deep digging in a little bit deeper than what we have been doing Is so important and so valuable to, to, to, to understand what our, what our rights are and what type of laws are out there, man.
I, I think elaborate on this point for me, cause I know people, they need to hear this. I like the point you made about, you need to research who you're going to for your consultation to get console's. If you actually have to know what their specialty is, what, how long they've been practicing, where they learn their law and what's going on because I liked that you made that point because that almost gives you agency in some kind of power in your decision making.
It makes you feel. Vulnerable. And I think that's a lot, a big issue with a lot of folks, millennials, especially from what, how we perceive lawyers is that we feel vulnerable when we go into them, we know [00:26:00] they're gonna hit us over the head for all the money. And then, and then that's how we're thinking, like, okay, this is what's going to happen.
And then if it doesn't go right, I E if I pay money and I don't receive the receive the quote unquote outcome that I want, then I'm going to be angry about it as well. And I think that keeps a lot of us from taking advantage of specific things, especially in the legal war and dealing with professionals and legal world that could actually be an asset for us.
We just don't trust it. Well, we as lawyers, we hear those things. We hear those, we hear those things all the time, and it's so important to, to listen out to what the community is saying and what people are actually going to through. So one of my. Biggest goals for all of my clients is that they feel comfortable with me and that they there's a trust factor in the relationship that my client and I have built together.
And that, you know, my firm is putting forth an effort to try to help them achieve a [00:27:00] goal or receive a solution or fix a problem. And letting them know that where we serve them is not the opposite way around because we're nothing without the client and their needs come first. And so having that understanding, and then kind of being able to scope the scene and say, Hey, okay, I don't know this.
You know, when you're looking at somebody, Hey, I don't know if you understand what I'm saying. So let me repeat that or let me do a little bit more to where they could kind of understand it because you do, people do get taken advantage of, and then sometimes it's just a miscommunication or misunderstanding, but you know, we want to have that open line of communication with our clients so that we can really, you know, Hey, this is what it is.
This is what the breakdown is. This is what the fee structure is. This. I want them to have any questions at all, or any lack of trust because I know [00:28:00] what people are actually saying. And I know we're really not attorneys. And so we're trying to in that stigma and build a bond, a connection because in our office, you know, they're, they're not clients, they become family.
That's a good point. That that makes sense. Totally different. Because like I said, it, it is a caricature idea, but that's how people, they see, you know, attorneys as slick talking fast, you know, saying they will take your money. Yeah. And part of it's that, that there's like, there's actually a language barrier, you know, because of the nature of law attorneys have to speak very concisely and you know, the rest of us come off the street, we're, we're speaking for the, you know, the transmission of an idea from one consciousness to another, and that's not necessarily the proper way to speak.
There's not necessarily using the proper terms. And so trying to like meld [00:29:00] those two ways of communicating is a big barrier for people. Yeah. And I know for a lot of blacks, this is, this is a real thing because I work, I work in a doctor's office and we take with patients all the time about proper, proper medical jargon, how to communicate with their, with their actual physician proper road facing like how you're supposed to do things in a correct way so that everything runs smoothly.
And I know a lot of the issue of making people happy, making them feel like they're getting what they wanted from the exchange is like, like Sean was saying, communicating upfront clear at the point of attack so that there is no way to have anything misconstrued. And that makes them feel so much better.
Even if they don't get exactly what they want perfectly, they can understand it. And that's what makes it okay for them. And then, Hey, I'll come back. I'll see him again in life in general. I mean, communication is the key to, or [00:30:00] lack thereof is, is, is the reason why so many problems exist. Yeah. Money. Yup, exactly.
And this one is a, I guess for good, for good or bad hip hop culture is a culture of persistence and patience. We've heard countless stories of innovators and their paths to success along that path. They face adversity with the intent of achieving a desired outcome. Since meeting you in college, we've always recognized your persistence and your patience with your studies, your seriousness, and how you approach life and interact with others.
You've always seen focus on your bigger goal or purpose while many of us are looking forward to the party tomorrow night. And, you know, we used to throw parties
that's for real, that's real though, because that's how we always do it. You'll say he's about his business, blah, blah, blah. We've got to go to this party tonight. But with that, how has persistence and patience driven you to fulfilling your purpose and achieving success? And it's funny, we [00:31:00] talk about purpose because I'm reading right now, a purpose driven life by Rick Warren and with my staff, we actually have just no, and our meetings, we talk about what our purpose is and, and, and knowing what our purpose is and what we're doing.
That's kind of what we've been studying on for August and September. We're studying something different just to make us better and think knowing at that time, when you will see me, you know, we were just trying, we were young trying to figure out what that purpose was, trying to figure out what we had to navigate through.
I knew at that time on CFCs campus and going home to Columbia and stuff on the weekends, in the summertime, I wanted something bigger. I wanted to achieve more. I knew where I came from and I knew that. I want it so much more for myself and for my family and just, [00:32:00] just to do better. So I knew that you had to sacrifice now for the better, good of later to achieve getting what you wanted.
And so, you know, we had a lot of fun, you know, college, that's what kids do. You, you have a lot of fun, but then, you know, you, you, you do have to really sit down and, and kind of take them out of those things. And like I said, that internship changed my life, you know, kind of seeing, okay, wow. You know, this is how they live.
This is how he's doing this. This is how he's doing that. I got to get serious. You know, he made me like, man, I'm not living the way that I need to be living. And I need you to really take this approach a little bit different. And so I had to really. Grow up a little bit faster. If I knew I was going to try to get to where I wanted to.
And so, you know, you go fast and I'm like, man, I want to know what it is now. But then you realize, Hey man, life is important. Enjoy the moment. And, and everything's going to happen the way everything needs [00:33:00] to in the right time. And I'm a spiritual guy. So, you know, I always think about those things, but the purpose being in the purpose now was just never about me.
It was always about what I can do to impact somebody else's lives to make their lives better. And I think that's the purpose of what we do in serving. How can we make our client's lives better? How can I help somebody else? You know, we don't want to be glorified for telling somebody what we've done for somebody or trying to help somebody like that.
But we want them to feel confident that, Hey, you know, when we really help you, we're really trying to help him. We don't want nothing in return, but to really, you know, that we're not entitled to, but we really just want to, to really help. And so that purpose, I think in some, some, some form of another was that same purpose back then.
That's understood. And then just building on that [00:34:00] question, this is, there's always been an idea of what, what do you consider success? Is it money? Is it property? Is it having healthy family? Like what do you consider success? Cause I know a lot of folks have that question. And when you're at our age and you're a millennial, you want to make sure by the age of 40, you can get quote unquote success.
We're putting these timeframes on our lives and we're putting these timeframes on ourselves. And really, and truly what is causing is a lot of stress because we're saying, Hey, I got to have this bomb by the time I'm 30, I got to have these by the time I got to have that by the time I'm 40. And I was guilty of that at one particular point, but it didn't happen.
The 25 came and I didn't have what those goals were and I wasn't where I wanted to actually be. And I said, you know, so life will humble you to the point to where you say, Hey, look, True's not me. You know, I just need to live life and [00:35:00] enjoy life and really do the thing. The day-to-day things that I can do to make my life better and that everything will fall into place if I trust the process.
And if I trust my ability and if you know, I trust them my higher power, whatever you believe in to, to really get you there to that particular point. That's what I'm talking about. Okay. I can understand that.
right around the corner from me, man.
definition of success is different than everybody we even drank. What was success? You know, for me, success is in is the general. Yeah. You know, I would be foolish to sit up here and say, Hey, we don't want to live a life. That's fruit, fruitful and multiply. You know, that, that realistically, yes, you want to have [00:36:00] things, but you don't want to worship those things are really, you know, you want to remain humble at the same time.
You want to be able to help and give back? What's the, what's the, what's the goal of having a billion dollars by 40. If you don't have anybody to share it with, you know, traveling with war, just, you know, you're doing it by yourself. So that's why the people that I bring along and it takes me a long time, but you know, they become family.
And so if I can share those experiences with people and help people change their lives, that is what success is for me, because to whom much is given much is required. And we got to remember that we have to, we, we, we have to give back at all points. And so, you know, social media has changed society. We look at so-and-so has this also have that.
And we get to doing what we can by comparing each other's lives a little bit more, but if you stay in each other, if you stay in your [00:37:00] whole life, You know, you don't really have anything to worry about and you trust the process and you're doing everything that you're doing. You don't have much to worry about.
Exactly, exactly. And you know, our, our generation where the we're like the test, the test cows, or Guinea pigs for this whole treatment of, we have something that we've been able to watch each other from, since we've been young, as we've been growing up with this social media, you can watch everybody evolving and we've never been able to do that before.
So like, thinking about success, how your, how well off you're doing, et cetera. Especially as a professional, as a millennial, it makes you, it's kind of insane. Like most time I stay at, I don't even pay no attention to it, but you know, every once in while just like anybody else, you'll get something into it and fall down that little rabbit hole.
So I just wanted to know your perception on it because in my opinion, I think that you're successful. Thank you see what I'm saying? So I just want to know from, from your mind how you, how you saw that. And so I, I liked how that, how humbled you [00:38:00] are about where you're at and what's going on with your career.
So that's a good thing, man. You never want to view a monetary value as what a success is because, you know, I know a lot of people that's rich, but not necessarily happy or a lot of people that has a lot of monetary value that definitely. You know, don't treat their neighbors nice or treat people nice and, and army people.
And so, you know, you think about those types of things when you, when you talk about success, but we can't, that's a conversation we can have for a long time. All right. Success in a certain level of giving back to the community, you know what, and that's one of the important things about being successful is that it enables us to, to give back and to do more things.
And so doing, doing research, looking at ya we, we understand that you're involved with Cobra and do some work in the sickle cell community. [00:39:00] Can you tell us a little bit about that organization and what got you in? Sure, sure. And, you know, evolve in Coburg, probably going on almost two years now and a good friend of mine or former representative David Mack told me about the organization, introduced me to a lot of the people there.
And, you know, I realized that that sickle cell was a disease that affected African-Americans and in so many ways. And, and I just loved how the organization evolved over the years and kind of learning the history, going back to that and what they were doing today. And so even throughout the COVID pandemic, they were still working very hard to, to make sure that they were helping.
And so, you know, that was important. And one of the boys that I sit on, I also sit on the board for my sister's house, which helps. Yeah, mastic violence issues or men were domestic violence this year it's viruses and [00:40:00] protects them and, and makes that awareness out there to the public. And so that's so, so important and critical as to, to what people need and what they, what they help with, what type of help they need.
And I actually learned about that organization when I was at CSC and, and and I really, really was honored to be asked to be on a board of that organization. Sit on the board of the association for the blind and visually impaired. And, you know, that was, you know, I think we go through our daily day, day to day lives and we don't really take take our time to really think about, you know, how blessed we are being able to walk as a blessing, being able to talk his blessing, but being able to see and hear is such a blessing and, and being able to be a part of and see how people are helped when they are visually impaired, as that's so important.
And then I sit on the [00:41:00] Palmetto project, sit on that board as well and, and helping those underserved with the better health care benefits. And, and so I said all the time, I said it so much is given, was, is required. And so serving all of those boards and organizations and, and not just that, but giving back in so many other ways, trying to mentor and try to really.
Save lives is so important. I mean, it goes back to this experience that goes with all of that. You know, we have a duty we're obligated to give back, you know, because somebody helped me.
Yup. All of us, none of us islands, we all had other people getting us here. Even if we weren't paying attention to it at the time. That's part of it. And you know, one of the things. You know, because we are in this culture that is very [00:42:00] focused on production and capitalism. I would call it an imperialist culture.
A lot of us, you know, we, we kind of get trained to only view our worth in, in what we can earn and what we can produce. And I think part of the, the, the woke mindset now is trying to relearn that, trying to reteach that, that your value is based on more than that. But at the same time, we also have to you know, produce enough to free ourselves so that we can take on other projects and things, you know, anytime obviously you're doing a lot.
I know every board wants to have a lawyer on it, so you're, you're spread around all over the place with that. But you know, when you first started. You know, it doesn't matter what your billable hours are or how marketable you are. There's always a struggle to get going in the beginning to find your client base and get everything.
And so, you know, for everybody that starts a small business or is self-employed running their own [00:43:00] practice or whatnot, you know, there's, there's a, there's a period in which you're in tight times. And then eventually, hopefully you get to, to a spot where you're getting by and then eventually you're getting ahead.
And, you know, like I think it's, it's very hard, especially if you're an ambitious person and you're motivated and a self-starter, it's very hard to make that. And it's hard for me anyway, to make that determination that like, well, when am I good enough? And I can start, I can start cutting back some of this and choosing my projects and, and not, you know, making all of my choices just off of making sure that I've got enough cushion to keep going, if there was another slump.
So like, how did, how do you, how do you. Determined when, when you're at a place, when you can throttle back a little and, and pick the kinds of work that you want to do and turn down jobs that you don't. When do you know that you've made it enough, that you can start really giving back to the community?
I don't think that you ever can sit back and just kinda say you made it, you know, [00:44:00] Always gotta have that drive, you know, because there's always somebody in business that's going to want to take what you got. It was in just life and just kind of, so you can't just sit down and be passive, but you can't wait to say, Hey, I'm gonna get to this point.
I'm gonna save this amount of money. And then I can help somebody know if you can help somebody you're in a position to help them right now. And you got the time or the resources to be able to do so. And even if you don't feel that you're where you really need to be, you still need to help that person help because it's not about you so help when you're going through the stroke, you know, but also putting yourself first in that, in that aspect too, and not overextending yourself, but.
You know, I don't think, I don't think you ever, I will. I'm not speaking for anybody else. I don't think I'll ever get to the point where I'm like, Hey man, let me sit back. And, and [00:45:00] kinda just, you know, the more that you cope, you know, I'm just not a coach. You know, I don't know. I can't sit here. You know, I woke up this morning thinking about stuff that I gotta do and it kind of worked out.
So it's a day that I feel like, man, you know what, I'm just going to coast it out. I'm not going to man, even on vacation, even about sharpening the tools and getting better and what I need to do to get better and how I should approach this situation differently and preparation and all of those things. I use the sports analogy like to Michael Jordan.
And I was listening to the Chris Paul and Gilbert arenas podcast when they were talking and just that preparation and it's just low. Of doing what you do.
You might narrow down their approach. You might learn how to work more efficiently. You know, you might be able to have more resources to be able to [00:46:00] work better and improve and do all of those things. But coasting, I don't, I don't think that I ever will.
I guess the difference is like, when you're, you know, when you are passionate about your career, when you, right. So then it just becomes more of like choosing the jobs you want to take. But, but that in the sense of whatever the case is, is, is doing, you know, you need to do a good job on paying attention to detail, paying attention to everything that you do doing, doing what you need to do is, is so important.
So even if I was whatever the case may be, if I was a chef or if I was, you know, another profession, I would still carry that same mentality
[00:47:00] nowadays. Well, because so many people feel trapped in what they're doing on a day-to-day basis and they, they don't have any passion for it. And so if you feel like you're enslaved to the system, then why are you going to have passion about it? You know, you really have to like, at least even mentally, even if you're not financially self liberate, you've gotta be mentally liberated to be able to do that.
But you gotta, you gotta be able to push yourself to see the bigger picture.
Cause it's, it's somebody that's always watching. So when you coasting is somebody that's watching you coach. Yeah. That's true. That's very true because you have think, and it makes a lot of sense too, because even like, like you said, because even if you get to a certain point or what might be defined as success, right.
And as soon as people see you kind of let your foot off the brakes or kind of [00:48:00] enjoy it, there's always going to be somebody in the background somewhere like, well, I see an opportunity for Nat, for me to make my move.
And whenever he lifts that foot up, Yeah. Yeah. And I think like you said, and at least the next question that we have is is top management. So I know outside of your legal practice, of course, you're very involved with your community and your family as well. That's a lot of hats to wear. Of course.
So how do you find time to manage all your responsibilities? Man? Balance
balance is important. I'm one of those persons that I got to find time to really rest. [00:49:00] And, and so I skipped rest in for me because if I'm not taking care of myself, then I can't take on somebody else's problems. And so if I'm not able to be the best version of me that I can be, then I'm doing a disservice to a customer or a client and, and, or a board or anybody that I'm helping.
So taking the time to get the proper sleep, trying to eat decent, you know, some days are better than others. And. You know, getting some physical activity in a few days out of the week and just resting and, and just time where you're idling, you know, taking the time to where I might just watch a movie or just rest or sleep, or just sit in silence or, you know, get spiritually recharged and, and all of those things is so important.
So having that balance, you know, and downtime and is, is very important, taking time to travel when I can, or, you know, [00:50:00] exists to experience life because, you know, I don't want to just work all the time. You know, it's so much more than just practicing law. You know, there's a lot of different versions of who Shaw Wilson is.
And, and practicing law is, is, is, is on the top of the priority. But you know,
this was one dynamic and, and it's so much more to who I am. I like that idea of scheduling time. Cause that's
right. And if something that comes up with creatives all the time and law is a lot more creative than people really think about it. Cause it's, it's very logical, but it's also a lot of investigating and coming up with new ways to word things and structure things. And it's kind of a creative field on its own and yeah, but schedule a time to rest.
That's a good one. You got, you gotta put, sometimes you gotta put that phone up. Oh my Lord. [00:51:00] No, I mean, you know, you check it, you know, but sometimes it's putting it on silent and just, you know, just breathing, breathing, you know, I think those are little things that we take for granted, but it's, it's so helpful.
I know, I know hearing this, I'm hearing that coming from you, Sean. I'll take that. I take that the serious, if you're saying that I know. Yes, sir. It's, it's something that's necessary. I'm bad at that. I, I don't, I don't I was getting beat up on fiance for that, for that not resting properly. She's like, you gotta go to sleep, man.
You gotta do this, this that, because then you're no good to anybody if you aren't properly rested. So what happens is, is when, when the real, the real situations come up and you haven't been resting, then when you are really needed and it's do or die, you're, you're fighting that, you know, like you're, you're, you're mentally exhausted.
You're physically exhausted. And sometimes, you know, myself personally, I'm coming off of a [00:52:00] burnout last week. Like I was. And it, it was at a point where I realized that, you know, I was problem solving and figuring out things every day. And then I would come home and I'd play video games where I would be problem solving and trying to figure out strategies.
And then I would be watching TV shows where there was some complicated thing in the background you were trying to figure out. And it was like, I was hitting that same part of my brain nonstop. Even when I was resting, I was doing the same things that I do at work. And, and eventually your brain just stops being able to do that kind of thought.
And if that happens at a crucial moment, when somebody needs you to do something, then I don't know what you do. Hmm,
like you said, that's a big thing. Cause I know what me and my thing, like I said, the phone thing is a huge thing for me. Especially it's just being able to put that phone down and sometimes the best days I have are the days where my phone is off or I lose my phone or [00:53:00] I don't have it on me. Like,
that's crazy that you think that, but like over like the past, like 10, 15 years of my life, I could easily be like the days when I don't have my phone, I probably saw the most carefree days enjoy. And I'll tell you, I'll tell you, you know, that's, that's real tall. Yeah. Not having that tether on you to catch your tail.
So you can just focus on other things you need to do. Oh man, that's so important. I'll take that every day. And I think this and I really enjoyed this conversation because especially with what we're talking about especially for today, because we're going into the fourth quarter of the year. And this is that time of year where you need to get your stuff ready, because once we finish this, we're going back into the new year.
So this is the preparation time to get your ideas together, get your goal together. It gets your body recharge. Get yourself in a position in a Headspace where we can go out there like, like Kobe [00:54:00] and attack, attack goals, and get, and get them knocked down. Because a lot of people at this time, you're like, ah, I'm relaxed.
I'm arrest is going into holiday season, et cetera. And then next year comes, it's going to be that quick, somebody like seven fingers, and you're already going to have to jump on it and be at it. So this is a great interview and constantly start off that season too, as we go into the fall, because like I said, this is the fourth quarter and it's time to get, get to business.
Yeah, man. Yeah, man, I really enjoyed the conversation today. Likewise, I really enjoyed the conversation with you guys. I know we can sit and do it all day. I really, really appreciate you guys. And I'm proud of the platform that you created and I'm honored to be a guest on here. So if it's anything that I could ever do for you, you know, don't hesitate to, to let you know, to let me know, excuse me.
Yeah, yeah, no, no.
[00:55:00] We gotta, we gotta, we gotta be real about it. Like I'm looking at the numbers and we are, we are worse than we were in January after everybody came back from Christmas. This was done with is not, it's about to get real, real bad. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. And that's the thing that people don't even realize is just because it's just the fact that especially with once the summertime hit and then what all the vacations, if people started wanting to get outside, it didn't like you say, could we still got, yeah, that's true.
Yeah. Like, look, it stuck a needle in my arm. I was like, cool. I'm good. No, that was kind of a lie. Yeah. Now one thing I will say though, now I've never taken off a mask at when I, when I go to the stores, I haven't taken off mat. No, that's the [00:56:00] place. I haven't done that for myself. I'm kind of used to just wearing a mask now and the store for the foreseeable future.
I've just got to accept that. But yeah. Other than that, man, like I said, it's just, I know, cause I know one of the things when we started to, especially Sean, was, we want it to, when we first start the podcast, of course everything's going on. COVID so everything we've been doing has been remote, but we've been wanting to make that transition to where we can kind of sit down in person and we thought we would have been able to do that going into this season.
But of course with the circumstances and everything, that's kind of, that's kind of pushed that back. So, but we're still gonna keep working, whereas, so keep doing our remote thing and whatnot. So, but yeah, but aside from that, man, how can people look for you regarding your services? Sure. Sure. Well, I appreciate it.
We our main offices in downtown Charleston, right near the college of Charleston and 19 Calhoun street and we [00:57:00] can be reached at area code 8 4 3 2 4 2 7 6 2 2 that's 8 4 3 2 4 2 7 6 2 2. I'm happy to help any way that we can. And if it is something that we don't do, we'll be happy to point them in the right direction.
Our website is Sean Wilson, law.com. That's www dot S E a N. Wilson, w I L S O N law law.com. So www dot Shawn Wilson, law.com for any emails or questions, you can email me at Sean S E a N at Sean Wilson, law.com. That's my email. We have, you know, like the law office of Shaw Wilson on Facebook. The Instagram is Sean M.
Wilson and LinkedIn is Shawn Wilson as well, Sean and Wilson as well. So we're here to be a resource we're here to be a tool for everybody and what their needs are and, and, and, and she's here to serve. Incredible, [00:58:00] incredible. Yeah, we definitely do, man. We definitely do. And so we, we, we got a satellite office in Columbia right in Ormeaux.
So you know, we serve citizens all 46. Counties in the state of South Carolina as well. So on all of this, we need to, to, to meet with us. We'll make it happen. That's what I'm talking about. Cool. Excellent. Excellent. Well, like I said, I think that kind of wraps it up for this week's episode. Of course you guys know where to find us of course, Hilltop glove.com and of course the podcast is always streaming on all platforms.
So until next time.