SPEAKER_01 1:45

Hello and welcome to the Hilltop Glove podcast. Today's episode is going to be an exciting one as we have the pleasure of speaking with Mini Mark, a hip hop slash soul producer and recording engineer from Hopkins, South Carolina. Mini Mark rose to national and international prominence in the mid-2000s with the release of full remix albums for Jay-Z's blueprint called The New Print in 2005 and Nas Stillmatic called The Day Things Got Ill in 2007. One of Mini Mark's most popular remix efforts was his notorious BIG tribute project entitled Machine Gun Funk, which was released in 2009, garnering over 100,000 downloads. If an artist needs the consumer to not only hear but feel what he or she is saying, Minnie Mark should be on the beat. He brings the soul like no other, mixing and mastering music for many artists at the Boom Room recording studio. Minimark is a legend making moves through sound. Visit his website, minimarkham.com, to purchase his latest merch, hoodies, t-shirts, and sweatshirt designs filled with culture. Thank you for joining us today, brother. I appreciate you having us at your humble abode. I ain't never been inside of town. I feel bad. You were you were describing me?

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Yeah, you're like It's the way he you say it.

SPEAKER_06 3:00

So I I write it up and he articulates it.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

She gasses me up. Okay. Yeah, man. Um, but I'm I'm so happy to have uh for you having us here today. You're actually somebody that we've been waiting to speak with, which is interesting to say the least, because we normally don't get to speak with people that we know.

unknown 3:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Yeah, isn't that weird? Isn't that that's weird, isn't it? Yeah, so like when we get to speak with people we know, these are these are some of our most fun and most exciting interviews to have because we get to actually sit, chit-chat, because normally when we see it's business work that we're doing. We don't get the real, it's always loud, we're in a club or something like that. Or it's a content. Yeah, man. So just to sit down, chill, and vibe, you don't have to work, you ain't having to produce something today or sit with some folks who are trying to record or nothing like that. So we get to actually know who you are as a human outside of the nine to five and actually get some other people to also be exposed to who you are as well. And you got it smelling good up in here, too. Right. So that's another thing, just so y'all know, and then either lady throw down we gonna have us a little sniggity snack. Um, but oh no, it's a meal. Oh, oh, it's gonna be my fault. We didn't have us a meal up in this thing. So I'm excited about that uh today. And man, just to start um with our podcast, as you know, it's for millennials. We're trying to learn how to be successful um in whatever careers we're doing, entrepreneurship, et cetera. Um, if we're out here striving to be good in music production, as artisans, in our craft, and one of the things we always like to start with is the most boring thing, but it's the most important thing. Can you let our notice audience know a little bit about yourself, who you are, where you come from, and why it is that you do what you do.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Okay, well, um I'm I'm Eddie Markham from Hawkins, South Carolina. Uh and why I do what I do, I almost feel like if I don't do it, like something bad is going to happen to me. Like that's like it don't matter what type of, you know, sometimes I've taken, you know, like a little break from music or whatever, but like I just I just was born with a creative spirit, and I feel like I have to create. Just like breathing, you know what I mean? Like I I absolutely have to. So that's that's the why. It's just it was it was placed in me. I didn't put it there. You know, had I got to choose what my gift was, uh, you know, I probably would have wanted to be a basketball player, you know, as a kid, you know, watching NBA and all that stuff. But I mean, you know, I just was born creative and I feel like I'm like living my purpose when I create things.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Excellent, excellent.

SPEAKER_06 5:41

That's a true artist.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

No, seriously, like soul. Yeah, do you have any siblings? Uh that's a long story, but yeah, I do have time. You're not we're not gonna get into that. I do have I do have some siblings. I have uh two brothers and two sisters. I wasn't raised with them. Okay, but yeah, I got siblings. And all of them are some form of creative also. That's why I wanted to ask that. To see what's in the family. Yeah. It's it's definitely it's yeah, it's it's in the blood.

SPEAKER_06 6:08

So like if it's in the blood, who or what inspired you growing up?

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Um so I just I I guess I kind of just started off like a super just a fan of music. Um I was born in uh I was born in '83, the same year that Michael Jackson Thriller came out. Basically, that's the first five years of my life, I was listening to either Thriller or Sesame Street music, you know. But um, my mom is a a big influence. My parents are big influences just from them listening to the music that they like, listening to my mother is from uh Detroit. So she made sure she made sure that I had plenty of uh, you know, like Motown, like at my fingertips. And my father, he's from uh Goldsboro, North Carolina, and that's uh it's a whole lot of gospel.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

Yeah, I was about to say, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

So gospel and he had, you know, some secular music also, like some uh a lot of he he liked funk music. Okay, you know, so like as soon as I was old enough to like put a record on a turntable, I was going through my parents' records and just listening to the stuff that they had.

SPEAKER_06 7:20

Speaking of records, we have uh a ton of records here.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

You see how the records out here. No, it's the silvers, I guess David Ruffin up here.

SPEAKER_06 7:29

What is your first record that you received? Do you remember?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Um, yeah, it was Michael Jackson thriller.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Oh, yeah. He's not lying. That thriller. Right. I mean born in the year thriller, man.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Thriller had the entire world in the chokehold. Yeah, the number one selling album. That's all the radio was playing. You know, so it's like, yeah, I had, and that's just, I don't remember actually like receiving it. I just, you know, that was just like the first record I remember that I had. It was just there, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, Michael Jackson thriller.

SPEAKER_06 8:03

I don't know why I just thought I'm the only one, I'm the one paying all the records. I'm the one making all the music. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Oh man. Don't nobody come to you.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

Nobody comes to you, but don't mess up. But yeah, I mean the Otis was there for a reason, though.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

I mean, Otis Otis started the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

That's what I'm saying. He was the and he was the last one.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

And he's the last, yeah, it's the one living.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Yeah.

unknown 8:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

So isn't that funny? It's old star cold. And with oldest. Yeah, those and with oldest. Um, speaking of which, though, just just coming from a background of of music like that, and I know for a lot of the the younger generation, just just thinking about uh people that inspire you, and et cetera, the the type of music that you were hearing, this is a big thing, especially um your mother being from Detroit, father being from the South, specifically North Carolina, you get a pretty good explanation of the diaspora of black American music that way. Because I like the fact that you said gospel. And a lot of black people don't be talking about gospel music. It hurts my heart because I'm like, you know, that's where the music came, that's where it came from. So your your father having that um that for like that love for gospel music, but then the funk, because this is why a lot of people don't realize about that. Why you got the funk, where that came from. Um, were there any particular funk bands and or gospel music that you remember that was a particular resonance to you?

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Oh man, as far as like funk, um, you know, Parliament Funkadelic, you know.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

Um, but also uh like the the Ohio players. Yeah, yeah. Um and gospel, my goodness. Because like I said, like gospel, that was his, you know, he you know, he had other music he listened to, but gospel was his thing. So like Andre Crouch, Mahiri Jackson, thank you, thank you, Aretha Franklin Gospel.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Yes, yes, um the every mass choir, the all of the, you know, they have all the states got a mass choir. God darn it. So you don't know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

All of the the mass choirs, the uh the mighty clouds of joy.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yo, that's what my grandma used to play. She put that thing to tape in on the way to church. Y'all, and I used to wonder, what are these might, what are the mighty clouds? Mighty clouds of joy. It was good. It made you feel good. Make you feel good.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Yeah. And I mean, you know, I grew up in church, you know, at Friendship Baptist, which is in Hopkins over there by the high school. Shout out. And um, I mean, like my first memories of like going to church, like I remember the music. I don't remember the sermon. You know, good point. Um, but the music, you know, that's that piqued my interest, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

And it had an effect on you, obviously, because like the music, I always tell people about gospel music too. It gives you this feeling. It's almost not to say it's better than the sermon, but it uplifts even the person who doesn't understand the sermon. Right. It it reaches you in a place where almost just like the reason for stained glass in in a in a church is to make sure those who are illiterate could understand what was being taught in the Bible. Did you know that?

SPEAKER_00 11:02

I did not know that.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

That's amazing. Yeah, it was for those people who could not read or write. So you go and you would read the stories, i.e., in the stained glass. That's why um the art, the artisan part of the church is so important. That's why I had to ask you about gossip music because specifically for black folks, that's where we get our major singers from. They came from the church. Yeah. So a lot of that music that we see that is so tied to us the stuff that we, especially as a hip hopers, and this is why I'm asking you this specifically. Because as a sampling, right? A lot of music that we're getting, the soul music, the font music, et cetera, that stuff came from people who were from the church. And so you can see the reason why it was so important to have that. And also that was one of our first organizational areas was the church as black folks. So it's very important um to tie that in because a lot of us young folks, we they don't know that. They're it's a digital world. The music to them is just straight 808s and hi-hats. And they don't realize that, yo, the the music that you're listening to, it came from a certain vibe, there's a certain culture. That's the reason why hip hop had a vibe to it of where it was supposed to be something to empower us and help raise us out of a situation that was bad at one time, very bad, um, coming out of the 70s and the 80s. Uh and it was almost like we needed something to save us. And these young folks made this amazing product called hip-hop, which was not just the rap and the beat, but also your B-boys, your B girls, your graph artists, and et cetera, is a whole culture around you. So um, that's one reason why I like your music so much because you do a good job of making sure you instill that culture in the music and the way that you produce and et cetera, shows that you have an understanding of it. I'm just sitting in your house right now, comfortable and relaxed. When I came in, that's why I told you, I said, man, I like the music that you're gonna use. Man, it's just an algorithm. But you know, the algorithm is based on what you listen to.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Wow, yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

So obviously, that like mind, light mind. So you listen to stuff that I would have um um banging in my eardrums on the way to school. I would have it when I was going to Lexington High, y'all. I had that banging in my ear. They'd be listening to OC and stuff, just listening to music. And people like, what is that? What is wrong with that brother? Why does he have his Malcolm X book out? And why does he wear slacks? To to to school. And I play football. I'll take my little slacks and fold them up and put them in there. I've been looking, people like, this is a very strange and odd fellow. What a distinguished thing. Yeah, that's what they're listening to something.

SPEAKER_06 13:24

What's a what's the song that you have to listen to every day?

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Good question. Question. I'm a very like mood-based person, so it like it depends on it varies. Yeah, it varies. Uh like, so I was listening to Southern Playlistic as I, you know, cleaning up, getting ready for y'all to come with Southern Playlistic. Uh yesterday, well rather Thursday when I was getting ready to go to the uh the event. Um the first Thursday is the hip-hop celebration. Um I was listening to I was listening to Trap or Die. I love Trap or Die. I ain't got a lot of y'all that Trap or Die just feel no different. So yeah, it depends on my mind, is a library of every song I've ever heard. And depending on my mood, that's you know what gets kind of like drummed up, you know.

SPEAKER_06 14:14

So have you ever gone a day without listening to music, music?

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Good question. Um, so physically, yes, but also, like I say, my mind is such a sound library that I don't have to physically listen to music. I can just be sitting in silence and the music is playing.

SPEAKER_06 14:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Like that's real. It's playing perfectly in my head.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

That's uh that's real. That's something my dad told us back then. He said, man, once you know it's song, it's in they said they could tell you take music, it don't matter still with you.

SPEAKER_06 14:44

That's how powerful the mind is.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

A lot of people in prison say that. That's one of the pox things when he was in prison, he was writing all his music and stuff. And they said, Well, he ain't got no beats or nothing. He's like, I don't need no beats. I have, I've heard plenty of beats just beat in my mind. I can just write all day now. They can't take it from me. Speaking of which, um, when, and and this is gonna be great for our audience to hit, especially a lot of young folks, what age was it that you started um physically attempting to create music?

SPEAKER_00 15:12

So kind of at 10, but then but kind of also at uh 14. I say at 10 elaborate, yeah. So um in in this house, uh, so right next door, um, he doesn't live there anymore, but there was uh a kid. Now I'm 10 and he's one of the older kids in the neighborhood. He's like maybe like 15, 16 or whatever. And all of his friends are like 15, 16, maybe a couple of them, 17 to 18, you know. The the neighborhood, the teenagers, the young, the young men. Um was part of a rap group um called the Devia Suspects. Um, I didn't know they were the devious suspects back then, but him and all of the other kids in the area that rap, they would meet at his garage and they would have ciphers. And so I was going to the mailbox, uh, heard music coming from the garage. And when you're 10, anybody who is older than you, including adults, like they're just cool to you. You know what I mean? Like you get the like my parents still picking out my clothes for me to wear, you know what I mean? Like they can wear what they want to wear, they got their own money, they got jobs, you know what I mean? They're driving cars, they cool. They're cool, yeah, they gotta be. And so um, there's music coming from the garage. I go over there and it's Mookie, and it's like all of these, all of these older kids, you know, they're passing the mic around, there's a cipher and everything. And that was my first time seeing like hip hop in person. Oh. And so so I bring up Mookie's name, but the person that's in the group with Mookie is Fat Rat. So the first so Mookie, Fat Rat, but also uh Kwame. Uh I think those are like the main three. Um and they were kids that would come from other neighborhoods, whatever that, you know, would go to that was like the hub, you know what I mean? Like Mookie's garage had the turntables and the mic and everything. So, like that's like these are the first rappers I've seen in person. Because before that, all I'm seeing is, you know, like rap was something that you saw on television and heard on the radio, but it wasn't to me, it wasn't anything that you could actually do. Touch, taste, and feel. Yeah. You know, so that was as, you know, and mainly, you know, me seeing the turntables, especially. Like, that's when I came home and I was trying to like uh like record, you know, myself scratching, you know, on turntables that were not meant to be scratched on.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Turntables were they?

SPEAKER_00 17:48

I done broke both of my parents. Oh Lord Jesus, that was a big problem back in the day. It was. It was. Did you mess any records up? Never messed any records up.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Yeah, the milk turntables. They ain't supposed to do certain things.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

So, you know, so that's like my first time trying to like, man, just really just experimenting, you know. And then also, you know, and this is before YouTube, so it's like when hip-hop was on television, which was pretty much just young TV raps and uh Rap City. That's it. Um, and you could see it, you know, uh, well, yeah, in the music videos and everything. And so like that was your only way of seeing it. Like now I can pull up just about anything on YouTube and see whatever I want. You know what I mean? Like if it's if it existed, you know, in the past or currently, like it's on YouTube. Excellent. And so, you know, so I'm locked into like DJ Prince Ice, who was on uh the big DM. Yep. Um listening to uh Club 101. Um but so there's there's that, which is kind of like the very the big seed that was planted, you know. The beginnings. And then also, you know, I'm diving deeper into the actual music. This is the golden era of hip hop, yeah. So like all of the classic albums are coming out, and they're all everything sound, every there's a whole bunch of brand new that's happening in hip-hop. We we haven't started getting like repeats yet. So like everything is a new sound or uh expansion. Exactly. No one's biting. You can say that. Ain't no biting going on. There's no biting, yeah, you know. There is a little bit of biting, but that's a deeper discussion or whatever. But for the most part, you know, everything's new and expanded and everything. And so then in 1997, when I'm 14, Wu Tang Forever comes out. Oh. And I heard that album, and that's when I was like, oh yeah, I want to make beats. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

You know exactly that you wanted to make beats.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

You wanted to as soon as I heard uh, like after coming out of the intro on Wu Tang River and into uh the first song Reunited, yeah, and Riza had completely like flipped his own style. He wasn't doing the same thing like he was on the other albums or whatever. So it was a new sound from it from him, and I was just mind blown, and I was like, This is what I want to do. I wanna the same feeling that I got from hearing Reunited, like I want to make that happen for people.

SPEAKER_06 20:16

So, what's the process like? The process of making at that time.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Yeah. At that time. At that time, so I didn't have anything to make anything. Um, all I did have was I did have a turntable that I didn't break yet. Um and I had a dual cassette. Uh dual cassette.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

That was like money back then, yo, a dual cassette.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

But I mean, you know, this was um, I mean, that's I I had to figure it out based on that, because you know, things are different now. Like now, parents see that you can make money and a career in hip hop. And they'll invest. So, you know, you know, people come up to the studio, people bring their kids, you know, they they pay for their child's first studio session. They'll bring them to me or they bring them to Factory. That's very cool. That's we're at the same, we're both at Jamroom.

SPEAKER_05 21:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Um, but it's like back then, like, you know, you had black parents that either went to college and got a degree, or they went into the workforce and got their years in, you know what I mean, and got their tenure. So saying you wanted to be a DJ, you want you want rap, you want what what is making beats?

SPEAKER_02 21:31

That's what I wanted, that's what I wanted to hear because yeah, people don't realize that sounds crazy. It sounded crazy back then.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

Yeah. And so it didn't matter how good my grades were. That was like, if you had, if you were a kid and you there was something that you wanted, get having good grades was like your leverage. Yeah, but it didn't matter how good my grades were, they were not about to buy me uh tur, you know, two turntables or sampler or anything. And you know, NPC, like that was like, that's like $3,000 back then. You know what I mean? Like it costs more than computers, right? And so um I took that, I took that uh the turntable with the dual cassette, and I didn't know I didn't know what this was, what what it was called back then. It ends up it's called pause tapes.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

And so I would take a piece of the record, you know, whatever I, you know, like what the first song that I sampled was uh The Brothers Johnson, Strawberry Letter Uh 23. You were 14 and you knew to sample that. I've been listening to my parents' records my whole life. That influence, amazing. Yeah, it's amazing. And so, yep, so like I'm my first crates and I'm digging for this is this is my dad, I still have the record, but like this is my dad's record, you know what I mean? Or it's my mom's record. Yeah um so I sampled a little piece, and then you have to like rewind it back at the exact same point, yeah. And you know, and piece it together, and you know, you end up with like uh however long you want it. And back then, since it's a tape, it's not a CD, like you wanted to go as long as possible. Yes, listen to it forever, you know, because you're just gonna have to rewind it, you know what I mean? Hear it again. So that was my so 14 and specifically like that summer. Also, you know, for me, like school year, you can try to do some stuff creatively that, you know, during the school year, but like, man, like I was always beginning the office, oh man, Christmas break coming up. Well, I'm about to be looping records for the entire time. Christmas break, uh Thanksgiving break, spring break, like what oh man, a summer break, three months? Oh, working hard, grind. And my dad, he went, you know, my well, my folks, they weren't like really, unfortunately. So like they weren't really stressing on me, like getting a job. Yeah, yeah. So like the whole summer, I'm just like listening to uh listening to music. I'm just engulfed, you know what I mean, and just just exploring, you know, just being creative with what with what I had at the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Yeah. And I I know for a lot of the young folks out here who listen to millennials listen to this, or even they have children who may be into music, et cetera, and they want to they want to do something, they're trying to learn how to get a grasp around music. It's good to hear this because I'm trying to tell people like people were making music with sticks and stone. That's what it almost feels like. Because especially as you explain that, they're like, so you had to pause the tape and pull it back and pause it and pull it back, and you didn't get to go in and touch any of the no, you had a whole the sound that you wanted was on that record that you were pulling, that you were putting in and you had to put it together piece by piece. I remember making my first little tapes like that, like trying to, and look, this is so sad. I was just trying to make the pause tape because I was wanting to hear it like the cool beat. Like I said, I just wanted to hear the instrumental part. I just wanted that first eight, 10 seconds, repeat it so I could just listen to it and go to sleep to it sometimes. Just listen to the vibe of the music. Yeah, I used to I had whole tapes. I my dad used to record um the jazz stuff on Sundays. I would take his little tapes and I would dub the little part that I wanted. So, like one song. Um this song called Summertime.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Um this is like this is for real. This is a song called Summer.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

No, no, no. This is by Sticks Hooper. This is um no pianist. No, it's not Sticks Hooper. Um, I forget the pianist name at the moment. It's it's right in my head. Play with the Crusaders. The pianist, he had a song called Summertime. I took that tape that he had and I took, I got my own blank tape because he had my little money from working. So my little blank tape. Yep. Put it in that dual sock set and I recorded the entire both sides that one song over and over again. My dad found that tape.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

He said, Well, you really like this song, don't you? I was like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Because I would play it when I would go to sleep. I'll put it on to go to sleep. And of course, they had the the um mechanisms got better in the tape, so they wouldn't pop your tape. So at the end, it would stop. Rewind it, rewind it. Yeah, rewind it. And I'll go to sleep today at night.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

My dad, you hear the song playing? Like, damn, this song really played over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Put in a fresh pack of batteries, say it. Oh, you money, man. So, like, this is I try to tell like the youth now that I'm like, you have options, like you can do more than what we could back then, is but but because of that, too, more is expected. Yeah, the quality of things and how it has to sound, it just has to be better. So, after you were doing that at 14, what was the first piece of production equipment that you were able to get that helped you step your level up?

SPEAKER_00 26:23

So um by the time I got to Lorisson High School, and it might have been like my 10th grade year, um, now like Lorisson already had like a they had a history of you know rappers coming out of the high school, you know. And like I say, this is nothing like it is now, you know what I mean? But like like the Fat Rat and Mookie, and uh then over on Horror Hill, uh like Ali Ra and uh Shaheed and Um I it's it's some people, you know what I mean? No, it's not a lot, that's what's interesting. And these these folks were at Low Richard, but by the time I got there, there wasn't a whole bunch of like hip-hop happening like that. Or it wasn't that kind of died down? It it died down a little bit. You know, um the handful of the the handful of people that were there, you know, we always all the hip hop heads were meeting in the morning in front of the library. There'd be like little ciphers or whatever, or people just, you know, like just there, like looking at source magazines and stuff like that, talking about, you know, the latest music and all that. Um and so a kid transferred from I think I think he came from uh New Jersey. This uh kid named uh Alvarez. Um and he's from New Jersey. He's like so advanced in comparison to us, you know what I mean? Like he has actual equipment, you know what I mean? Like we struggling.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

We didn't decide to struggling trying to make it happen.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Yeah, you know, sticks and stones. Yeah, and so like Dougie Fresh. My my peer group, they didn't know exactly what I was doing. They just knew it was hip hop, yeah, and it was like kind of like with recording and music or whatever. So when they found out what Alvarez was doing, they were like, oh, you need to you need to meet Markham. Yeah. And so they put us together, whatever, and we, you know, started kicking it or whatever. And um, he was staying on he was staying on Fort Jackson. This is before 9-11. This is this is like 1999, you know. That makes a difference, yeah. You know, like Fort Jackson, of course, is is is big, but we're not far from Fort Jackson, it's like right around the corner. Yeah. And I mentioned it's free 9-11 because like you could just go on base. There was no security checks like that. So him and his family were on Fort Jackson. I'm right here, you know, so it's like a it's like a five-minute drive to get to where he's at. So like um once I'm once I get my car, you know, on the weekends, especially like Saturday, like I'm over there all day. And he has he has like a sampler, a keyboard with a sampler, a turntable. Like, I've and I almost felt it, it felt so one-sided to me. It's like obviously me showing up. So it's like to make myself feel better about showing up, you know, with really nothing or whatever, I would bring records. Ah, and so that's how, you know. So I take my records over there, we sample stuff. Um, and yeah, we we formed a little uh production team. We were uh Planet X productions. Oh um, and that that was definitely a level up, you know. Um, I had access to some equipment through him. He showed me how to use everything. Um and we would work on stuff together, you know. And sometimes, you know, I might be over there. Like I say, it's Saturday, and I'm there as early as his mom would let me come up. You know what I mean? So he'd be doing chores Saturday. Yeah, you know, he'd be doing his chores, yeah, and and while he's doing his chores, I'm in there like working on my, you know, like stuff solo, getting more familiar with the equipment and everything. Yeah. Then once he finished his chores, y'all see how there was organization.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

It was chores back then. Yes, I was chores, but that was what was cool because you have found the foundational principles. Like there was things you had to do before you could go and have your fun. Right.

SPEAKER_06 30:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

But that was a good thing because as you could tell, especially military, you know, you better get your business in. So you'd be working on that solo, and then he would come in and you ball with.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

And like he was so he was so ahead of his time and so like he could just make it happen. Like, there was no limitations with Alvarez. Like, he turned the little bit that he had into a full-fledged studio. Like, he took two dual cassette like boom boxes, yeah, and basically turned that into a four-track recorder. So he's he's able to, like I say, advanced. Advanced. You know, so he's recording, you know, his verse, he's doing his ad libs, he got a whole nother track for like the court, like it's it's it's wild. It's wild.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

Like he was doing everything on tape. Yeah, we had, yeah, tape. Explain that to people, because uh again, you were still they were like 99, 1999, and they was yeah, tape.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

You you recording tape, you know, real time on tape, and like you know, CDs were a thing, of course, but they hadn't even like CD CRs had not even been made. Nah, right, nah. And when they did make them, they weren't in computers yet, they were standalones, whole extra components, and them things were expensive. And they sucked power too, and they were slow, yeah, and a lot of this would be faulty. Yeah, like you'd be almost done burning, and then it would be an error. You gotta throw the old CD away and start over. Yep. Yeah. Y'all don't realize that was a it was a whole no solid, no solid state drive. We could uh we could we could probably like write a whole movie like on just all that it took for us, like the whole adventure, the journey on getting our tape, our beat tape, yeah, converted to one CD, uh one CD. Good gracious. That was uh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 32:27

But look at the problem solving, you know. Back in the day, I feel like we had to problem solve a lot more.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

Yeah, it's it definitely is definitely gonna like make you MacGyver status. You gonna you're gonna use the noodle. Yep, yeah, trying to figure it out. You know, all like all of the things, you know, from musically, but yeah, and also, you know, like how do I get this?

SPEAKER_01 32:45

You guys are basically also having to engineers. Yeah, like you said, night lighting as engineers. There's um there's an interview uh that 21 Savage did with on um what's the guy's name from from up from New York Battle Rapper and messes the podcast name up. Um but he was in this interview and they were talking about the difference between the old generation of music um producers and artists and then the new ones. And he said the big thing is they don't need CDs. He was like, all they need is a username and a password, and you can get to their music, and their music gets to you because you got a telephone. So back in the day you had to have what? CDs because you had to get the physical CD printed and prepped and got and taken to people so they can hear it. Which means you also more than likely needed a radio. Now you don't need a radio, you could be on Spotify and et cetera. And for people to understand what I mean, but like the big difference is to me, and from understanding and getting to see the analog to digital conversion is this the amount of work, hours, and resources put into something. Meaning, um, just like with good wine, when you put a lot of work into good wine, um, it has a value to it that when you take a sip of it, you're going to savor it. When I produce a bunch of quick and Mad Dog 2020, I'm not savoring that. I'm knocking that thing back throwing the bottle on the curb. You ain't never savored MD20.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

I ain't never savored it, bro. I'm trying to drink as quick as possible. I didn't want to taste that flavor too long.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

I want to feel the effects. Right. But I didn't want to sit there, and I like that purple rain.

SPEAKER_06 34:20

It's the way you look bad.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

This man's like, oh, he liked one. He got a flavor he likes. But yeah, I like the purple rain. But I didn't want to savor it per se, like I would a good glass of Pinot Noir that I just that you know that I spent 120 on.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

You know? I think if some I think if somebody presented to you, you know, some uh, and you know what, like MD20 just cheapens the whole thing. If somebody, if somebody presented to you some Mogan David 2020 in a nice crystal glass, you know, he would say for it. You you know, you you would have a whole I'm too broad, you know, I drink?

SPEAKER_01 34:58

I drink I got a specific flavor that I like. Yeah, you indeed. You see what I'm saying? So you know that's where I'm coming from. Like, in a sense, like you know what it is. I'm like, okay, um, I know that this person put in this much work and effort. They're gonna, they're gonna treat that that work like their baby, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:15

Well then, like also along with that, so you we talk about like the work that went into just making the music.

unknown 35:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

But also, you know, from the the consumer, yeah, from the consumer standpoint, like you had to you had to go to hip hop. Oh, I see what I'm saying. You had you had to go to hip hop uh periodicals to find out the release date, or maybe listen to the radio station, like or you know, there weren't a whole bunch of places to go for the information, you know. So you went to the the programs, like I said, you know, UM TV Raps, yeah, uh Rap City, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

The magazines.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

The magazines, the source, uh I remember double XL. Double XL eventually, you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

You have your you had the Ozone, you had regional, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

And then you had to get into your car or catch a ride to the nearest uh record store. Good point. And it was a while before you could trust someplace like Target, you know what I mean? Like you had to go to a record store. Yeah, because if you went to Target or or Walmart, you know, you're gonna end up with a weird version of the song that you want to hear.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Back that Zaz up. Yes, this is a version that was bought from Walmart because my we really wanted that track when it came out. We bought it, we were playing it.

SPEAKER_05 36:40

Wait, what?

SPEAKER_01 36:41

He said, girl, you look good.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Won't get back, won't you back that Zaz up? I said Zaz. What's Zaz?

SPEAKER_06 36:47

Oh, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

No, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

It was rough. But so for us on this side of town, um, you know, we went to uh Sounds Familiar is no longer open. Yeah, Sounds Familiar Records on the location on Rosewood, uh like right by uh like right by Bend's Tech. Okay. On uh yeah the Beltline campus. Yeah. You're right. That's not true that happened. And then, you know, if the CD is really good or if the tape is really good, it might be sold out. So maybe in the heat of the moment, you say, uh, this is if you're driving, or it's you and one of your friends, or whatever, you're like, all right, let's go to this record store. Um, because also we don't got cell phones yet.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

You know, good great point.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Since you're already out, it's hard. I forgot how hard.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

Since you're already out, it's like, okay, let's go check out here. Maybe they got it. You know what I mean? And then if they're sold out, then you're gonna go back home sad.

SPEAKER_03 37:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

You might pick up uh, you know, a constellation CD to make yourself feel a little bit better. Like you went, I oh, I get I did get this, you know. And then when you get back home, when it's time to like go out, maybe the next week or the next day, you have to get in the phone book. Fine and uh this is real.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

Nah, this is not I'm remembering how bad this was now.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

You got to find the the phone number to the record store, you got the call and ask if they have it. If they have it, will you hold it? Hold it, right? Oh my lord, yeah. Would you hold this for it? Would you hold it for it? Give them your name. Um, because otherwise you're just wasting gas. Because it's gonna be sold. It's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

I remember, look, this is gonna sound bad. Remember, we were trying to get this uh skip and tell you. We were trying to get at Ray J. Wait a minute. This is bad. This is this is but this is the point he's proof. It's making it bringing up these bad memories. And we had to go down, we walked, we walked miles, like literally. I'm not gonna lie. We walked a couple miles. Y'all walk miles already to the pawn shop.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

I know this is bad.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

This is bad.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

Be quiet, be quiet, nigga. Be quiet.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

To the pawn shop. We was in Marlowe, South Carolina. We was in the middle of the boonies, but he ain't had no other option to get to the pawn shop to buy this der Wait a minute, single. Wait a minute. You remember singles. I remember so we can play it over and over and over again because we wanted to get the real version. We didn't want back that sazz. You see how bad that was them children that I'm trying to tell them nowadays.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

They lucky, they lucky. I I appreciate that vulnerability that you did. That movie. Ray J, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Ray J, wait, I apologize today. I apologize about that, y'all. But at the time, now that wait a minute was hitting us because it had a little Kim on the on the little front little. Yeah, Lil Kim was on the radio. We wanted to hear the real little Kim verse. We didn't want the one that was on the radio. Yeah, yeah. You see how bad that was? Yeah. That's why I explained. Like the the love of the music was a little stronger in the sense of it wasn't fly by night, um, consumer, quick consumer, take the trash, throw it out type stuff. I'm gonna hold on to it. We were holding on that darn thing, even though it was technically trash. There was great.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

There was actually work that had to be done to be a part of the culture. The culture. Yep. You know? Yep. I mean, and it's, you know, certain albums, so like speaking of juvenile, you know, so 400 degrees came out. Yes. And I don't know what it did to I don't know what it did to the other high schools, but like that hit Laura Richardson High School like a wrecking vault. I heard the song, huh? And I wasn't really impressed by it, or at least like the radio version. See, yeah, it made a difference. But like it got to the point where I was, because I didn't get it like when it first came out. But it's like, how many more days am I gonna come to school and everybody talking about this juvenile? And I ain't got nothing to say because I don't have it. So I was like, man, let me go ahead and get this out.

SPEAKER_06 40:43

I gotta get it.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

Yeah, and I mean, it worth all of the damage that it did, damage in a good way, to the school or whatever, right? But like, yeah. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

And I like that part that you just uh pause, it didn't bother you, but what you said is in order to be a part of the culture, you had to go and get a physical something, something physical to consume the culture so that you can go and be a part of the conversation. That was a big thing.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Oh, you had or somebody had a W tape, you know, and you know, so Low Richland is basically like three small towns combined. It's oh wow. Hopkins, well, some a little bit Southeast Columbia goes to um goes to Low Richland. But then there's also there's there's Hopkins, uh, Gasson and Eastover. Now the kids that live out in Gasson and Eastover, they might not be able to catch a ride to town, yeah, as they call it.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Yeah, explain to them how far that is. Since for people listening, they just like might not be from the area because you do have people listening.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

So I'm like right on the edge of like the Hopkins and Columbia border. Like the neighborhood right across from this neighborhood is technically Columbia. Yeah. And so I'm maybe 10 minutes from Sounds Familiar. But like there's kids that are 40 minutes away. 50 minutes away.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

And they went to school where you went to school.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Uh-huh. And so it's like South is different. So it's like them going to, and then I don't know if they still say it now, but back then it was like, oh, yeah, you know, we we went to town.

SPEAKER_06 42:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

You know, so it's like that's a big deal. And, you know, depending on how young we were or whatever, like, you know, and your parents might not be, they might not feel like stopping at a record store, you know what I mean? That's true, yeah. They got they're trying to get back home. Yeah. You know them came to town to get groceries or whatever. You know what I mean? Like pay for the phone.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

They went to get the supplies.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:45

For the week.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

Yeah, for the week. You know, so I mean, like, they were like some of my friends that couldn't make it to town like that, like I would dub them, like I made like some extra money in school, like dubbing tapes for it was a blessing, bruh.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

I would have paid back in the day to get instead of walking, I would have paid because no, seriously. Nah, man. Because you're gonna get you want to hear, you want to be a part of the culture. I remember how bad it was when I hadn't watched the movie Major Pain. And everybody was at school talking about the movie Major Pain. I'm listening to them talking about this. I'm like, what are they talking about? This guy's this military, this jokes. I don't get none of these jokes. I can't have no conversations. I'm sitting on the outside, like, I'm gonna try to read my read the dictionary.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

That's what I was like, you gotta you had to wait for it, the tape to come out to it. Yeah, and like now stuff is you know, is almost like instantly on streaming. Yeah, you had to wait a whole six months. A whole six months because it goes from the city.

SPEAKER_06 43:38

I just thought about how long it took.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

It went through the theater.

SPEAKER_06 43:41

Oh, yeah. But now the process.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

But now, uh, but then so you know that's if you wanted to actually like buy it and own it, but you know, but then there's blockbuster. Yeah, but you're still waiting like six months for it to hit Blockbuster.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

Hit Blockbuster and then be able to have enough tapes for you to go and actually get one of the copies. Um, and it didn't matter if it was a small or big town. And I tell people back in the day, I mean, from the now about living from back in the day, coming forward to digital world, I'm just like, man, I see why everybody is and why it's so easy for us to all be on the same page. Because you literally could be left out in the loot and still be a young person. Now it's kind of almost impossible to be left out in the loot and be an actual young individual dealing in the day and age. You're gonna be caught out.

SPEAKER_06 44:23

You got so much access and information.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Can you explain that? Sorry, so now we're looking at 1999. We're coming into 2000. You have been working with um Alvarez doing production. You are, of course, moving forward on production. Could you explain a little bit of the change after 2001? You worked with production. Did you all start to actually get like sell your production, et cetera, to artists and whatnot? Or how did you move into that?

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Definitely like selling if I I have to like think like when did I sell my first see? That's what I was wondering, yeah. But um like the the just the creative process and really just we were we were stuck on like making it and like also the big the the big thing was like how can we get this on CD for the people who don't because this is like a changing of the guards, like tapes are starting to kind of go out a little bit. Yep not completely because like people still shoot you would have if you had a if you had a CD deck in high school, you you were doing, yeah, yeah. And and don't mess around and have like one of the little faces that detach.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

You get to walk around That was better than a two way changer.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

Hey, you selling drugs. Yep, you gotta be. You got to be got to be.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

You got to be a six C D changer, eight C D changer with the face plate removed.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

But um so like. Like most of my friends and myself included, like we had what they called a car kit. So you got your portable CD player and coming out of the headphone jack.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Oh, I forgot about that. There was a little tape.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

The little the the line going into the thing, the shape like a tape to fit into your tape player. So then that's how you're able to play CDs if you only have a tape deck. But then also you're playing it on your portable, you hit a speed bump.

unknown 46:16

Boop.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

Skip it.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Hell no, yeah. Explain this.

SPEAKER_00 46:19

This anti the skipping thing, this skipping phenomenon that caught Millie Vanilla. Then they then they started uh, you know, they started making them, but those were expensive CD players that had the you know the anti-skip on it or whatever. Um but uh so with the tapes, you know, we were going around. Well, then also so Alvarez, he eventually, you know, went to a different high school. Okay. He switched to Richard Northeast. Oh wow. Which wasn't, you know, because like I say, was he still living on base? He was still living, he was still living on base, but like we cut through Fort Jackson to get to Northeast. Like we wanted to go to that because wow. And by this time, I-77 was built, but like in the early 90s, I-77 hadn't been built yet. True. So we went, so we went through Fort Jackson to get to the Yeah, you could drive.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

This is why he was trying to tell you the difference. Oh, that back road 2001. Why this is now you can't drive through there.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

And and so him going to Northeast, like he was probably he was probably closer to Richard Northeast High School than he was to Lor Richard. Yeah, okay. But you're like I say, Fort Jackson is pretty central, you know, for this area, you know. Um, so you know, we would still meet up and work on stuff on Saturdays and everything. And, you know, whatever we worked on that weekend, we got the new tape. And so me wanting to, because you know, my friends that do have cars, you know, they got the speaker boxes, yeah, you know, in the in the trunk and everything. So I want to hear what the I mean, what this bass sound like. So I'm running up to cars after school, you know what I mean? Like, hey man, put this in real quick. I just want I just want to hear. That's it. Nah, I just want to hear it.

SPEAKER_06 48:04

Five minutes.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Five minutes, five minutes. You know, this, yeah, this, this, just play a little bit of it, you know. But also, you know, they listening to it. If if they thought something was whack, they were gonna let me know it was whack, you know. True. If uh if they liked it, you know what I mean, I was gonna get like on the spot feedback. But you know, I I had I had no system in my car. Or even uh, like if I wanted to hear what the bass was doing, you know what I mean? Like I had to go to the homies that had the the uh the caprices or whatever, you know what I mean? Yeah, this is specifically, you know, just the 12s, whatever, you know. Um, and I forgot what your original question was because I'm an old man.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

Oh man, stop, man. So the the the switchover specifically coming out in 2001, right? Yeah, you all still working on this music. Were you attempted to get the music sold?

SPEAKER_00 48:55

Um nah, we were we were still figuring out the different ways we could make it. We we didn't make it to that quite yet.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

You're still owning the skill.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

And so, you know, 99, 2000, we're still making everything. 2001, we both uh we both graduate our respective high schools or whatever. And around this time, like that summer, as it's starting to get into like, you know, school year of 2002, which is like you're a lot of me and my friends, you know, starting to go to like college or whatever. Um, we started looking at, okay, what other what other equipment is out there? Gotcha. You know, and you know, so we're looking at NPCs and stuff like that, and we we can't afford none of that, you know. Um and Dell Computer started this whole campaign, like, dude, you're getting a Dell. I remember that. And so they were like, it was like the first time they were like very powerful and affordable computers. You know what I mean? Like you get like the entire computer, the tower, or whatever, the monitor, with a built-in, you know, CDR, which was That was the key. That was key. Back in the day. For like for like under a thousand dollars. Yeah, remember that they were pushing it hard. And so um, by this time, like my mom, she was seeing like how much I was into the music or whatever. And she's always been like very uh supportive of the things I do or whatever. Um and so she made uh we made like a labor deal that summer or whatever. Like she had some she had some uh work that needed to be done at her house. She needed the like the front and the back porch painted. She needed the driveway resurfaced. It was some it was some stuff. And so I did, so I painted, I painted the porches and everything and resurfaced the driveway, and she bought me she bought me the computer. That was a good darn deal, man.

SPEAKER_06 50:59

That's how I was. I do it all over again. That's how it was back in the day. People had to get their kids to do stuff. Like now it's just like, here you go. You want it, you got it.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

And I mean, like, I was working at Foot Locker at the time, but like Foot Locker wasn't paying no money. No, they were like it was gonna take me 26 years to save up the like eight, eight hundred and fifty dollars for that, you know, yeah, for that computer or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

So she would have more out in taxes than they were paying you.

SPEAKER_06 51:29

Seven times for real, you know. Seven times. So, what's your like library look like? Your your music library? You have music that you haven't dropped yet or that release, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:43

Oh, yeah. I'm not even asking him that because I don't even want to know this quest that is.

SPEAKER_06 51:47

I want to know about roughly about how many songs that you have not released.

SPEAKER_00 51:55

So I'm actually like, I'm I'm like recording more like songs, like actual, you know, like complete songs or whatever, but as far as like beats, um like I I could release instrumental albums every quarter. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

I already know like for that's what I'm saying, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

For the next for the next decade.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Yeah. Wow. Oh yeah, every quarter, and it would all be nice. It'd be something I know that you would like.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

So there's definitely um, because man, like once once I started like getting my tools or whatever, um, and when when Kanye dropped college dropout, and when he the song uh Spaceship. Yeah, and he had he had that line about like lock yourself away making five beats a day for three summers. Yeah. Like I took that as a personal challenge, and I was like, well, he's doing five beats a day. I need to be doing 10 beats a day. You know what I mean? And so that was like a huge, and that's still a that's still a motivating line. But especially back then with me like wanting to like really starting to like start work with artists and everything, um, or even just you know, match the drive of the people that I look up to, you know. Um, so that's when, and I I have a I have a vault of of beats, and like there's a lot that got made, you know, in that era between I think College Dropout came out in 03. So between like 03 and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For 10 years, you know, from 03 to 2013, like I was making a lot of stuff work. Work.

SPEAKER_01 53:45

And I asked you about this because um always because you have to get your grind in. Uh we always talk about doing your 10,000 hours so you can become, you know, a master at what you're doing. When did you get your first NPC? I'm trying to get to the point. I want to know when you got an NPC.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

Man, it was a while.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

Because this is why people don't realize those things are expensive, man. They're dope, but they're expensive. So I never even got an MPC.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

So I have, so I have one of the uh, I have like uh, you know, the one, the classic one, the the 2000 XL.

SPEAKER_03 54:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:20

That actually got gifted to me um by uh DJ Dice. Serious. And that was that he probably, that was probably like 2014.

unknown 54:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

But then during the pandemic, um, and I was definitely like I was on a break from music during the pandemic, but I knew I was gonna come back, so like I bought some some tools or whatever. So like the the the newer the newer MPC, the uh the MPC Live too.

SPEAKER_03 54:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

Um so that was like that was like 2020 maybe.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

Okay I got that. But before then, what were you using to make your tracks?

SPEAKER_00 55:00

So I was using, so remember I got the computer in uh in 2001. Um or 2002. Um and so I had to like get on Kazah and LimeWire.

unknown 55:18

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

Because I didn't because you know there was it's like you gotta find okay, you gotta find like a software that you can use. And uh the softwares were if if you could even find a place that had them. I think the only place you could get music software from and a big one back then was Magic Studio. Um Magic Studio, but you know, so like I would download the the pirated version off of Limeware, Limewire, Bear, Bear Share, because they're Share.

SPEAKER_01 55:52

Share Bear, Share Bear, somebody, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

And then, you know, you gotta try to find like a good copy that's not gonna immediately crash your computer, you know. Good point, yes. And so I ended up I landed on uh a program called Acid, Acid Pro.

SPEAKER_01 56:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

And uh Soundforge.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

Remember Soundforge, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:11

Um and FL Studio. Well, it was called It was Fruity Loops back then. Fruity Loops who don't know. Version three. Version three.

SPEAKER_01 56:19

That was their version.

SPEAKER_00 56:21

Um and so then, you know, I ended up, you know, all of them were working, you know. So I would just, you know, import a song and just see what I could do with it. And was pretty much because once again, no YouTube. Yeah. Um, and especially I did know some people that use magics, but I didn't all the way like the way Magics was working. You know, I, you know, tried and ended up with acid and soundforge or whatever. So it's like I'm learning how to use them without a tutorial. There's no no tutorial, um no videos to watch or anything. And um, yeah, I would like chop up the sample in uh, I would edit the sample in Soundforge, chop it up more in acid, and I would program my drums in Fruity Loops. Yeah. And then import the waves into I was essentially using uh acid, you know, the way people might use Pro Tools or so, yeah, that's that's what I was making stuff on. Um and burning it immediately to the CD. Um Alvarez, he had like gone off to school uh someplace, I forgot what school he went to. So it was just like me um working on stuff, and then around that same time, also I'm starting to make beats and I'm like coming to school at Midlands Tech, you know, with the latest beats I'm working on and everything. And just always with, you know, a brand new CD of the latest beats that I'm making or whatever. And in I want to say 2002, um, I'm at uh, I was thinking at the corner store. Uh, I don't know which way y'all came in, but there's like that corner, Leedsburg and Trotter Road, where there's two gas stations right across from each other.

SPEAKER_04 58:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:17

It's a, I think it's a kangaroo now, but because I've been on this side of the town so long, it's always gonna be the pantry. So I'm at the pantry and and I see I see Fat Rat. Fat Rat's out there. He might have been him and him and some of his uh him and some of his uh folks from Streetside Records. They had Streetside Records and the group Street Side, they might have been out there selling CDs, because this is still very much the you know, selling music out the trunk era and everything. They might have been out there selling CDs or he might have just been like stopped in for some cigarettes or something like that or whatever. But either way, I stopped him. I was like, hey, what's going on? You might not remember me, but you know, I live next door to Mookie uh back in the day. And he remembered me, and I told him I was making beats. And so, you know, exchange by this time we do got cell phones and stuff. Yeah, they exist. Um, you know, so exchange uh numbers and everything. And he had just moved back to the neighborhood, also, you know what I mean? So he's right around the corner. And so we set it up and I went over there and started letting him hear beats and did that for a while. He would just always, you know, be ready to check out the latest stuff that I made and everything. And uh like I might have been a little bit of a pest because like I might have like I might have, I might have not always like called before I stopped by. Let's keep the call there. What's up, man?

SPEAKER_02 59:44

Um good time to get some beats. That's that useful energy, man. You're about you are just you're excited.

SPEAKER_00 59:52

And uh he actually, because like, oh, so this is important also, like stepping into like the computer era of making beats or whatever, there's no longer sample limits as far as like time. Oh, yeah. For you could go. So like on traditional samplers, you got like eight seconds of time. We had to get creative on you know how we could max out this 10 seconds. That's like your drums take up time, the actual sample take up time. Um, and so now I got an unlimited amount of sampling time. So my first beats had these long intros of just whatever soul song that I stopped or whatever. Did it just play full minute? You know what I mean? And so Fat Rap and his patience is like from start to finish listening to all of these long intro beats.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

Oh man, plus he was a trooper.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:44

He was trooper plus his patience. And uh, and he started calling me uh, he started calling me Midi Marathon because the sample was running and running and running and running.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:57

But um, but yeah. So yeah, so that's the transition into like the computer and everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:03

Hey, it's dope. I want the audience to hear that because yeah, man, all right, because this is gonna lead us into the modern age, um, and just how you're producing, et cetera. Specifically for the things that were discussed in your your nice biography at the beginning, that that nice dissertation that was read that that that she so graciously put together for us. She killed it. She killed it, didn't she? I'm trying to tell you, that's all I'm saying. Yeah, no, who some of the people you know. I'm like, gosh, it's these people. Um, but your productions and your remix album, specifically um with with the Jay, with the Nas, and of course with the Biggie, if you could just explain to our audience some of the mechanations behind that, how you came up with the desire to work on these projects, because those projects, those are almost like those are love projects. Like you gotta, you technically can't just be waiting to receive payment for them, et cetera, because you're remixing these um things. But um, if you could explain how you went about those processes between those um different albums, what what sparked you to do it, and um also just some of the accolades that you're able to receive?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:10

Um, so um there was a there was a lot that happened in that era in my youth that I wasn't really, there wasn't really a plan. It's just the idea to do it popped into my head, or some however the idea came to me, or I saw somebody else do it, and I said, I think I could do that and more. And I was just, you know, you know, this full speed ahead. Wow. Just to stay busy and to be productive. Um and you know, today they call that content creation. That's what they, yeah, that's what they call it. Yeah, but back then it's like um, and also it was the beginning of like being able to uh share music online. Yeah, by the time you know the computers and the you know the CDRs and everything were out, like and the internet starting to mature a little bit more, there's like websites, there's places you can go to upload your music, like in like SoundCloud.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:12

Um I'm sorry, not SoundCloud, SoundClick. Yeah, before SoundCloud. Before SoundCloud, SoundClick. Um and like also, and this is also pre-Myspace. This is pre-social media. Yeah, you didn't have a blue. There was no social media. Yeah, um, so um websites would have chat rooms and like message boards. And by this time, you know, I'm you know, entertaining the idea of like mailing CDs demos off to like record labels and everything. Um I had to go to the there was like a I forgot the n there was a book that had like addresses to like some of the record labels or whatever, and I had to go to the public library for access to this book. Um and so I'm like blindly mailing off like demos and everything, but then also like I'm going to these record labels, like I'm going to their um their websites, um, to their chat rooms message boards and everything, and I'm like sharing my SoundClick uh links because I have beats uploaded to my SoundClick and everything. And that was kind of SoundClick is the beginning of me like selling beats.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:36

Got you.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:37

Okay. Um this before before there was beat stars like there is now, SoundClick. You could sell, you could sell, you know, you could be a now, it had a producer community, but also like if you're a rapper and you had some whatever, whatever genre of music, you know, you go there and post your post your music and people could buy it digitally, your music. Um you could sell like CDs off all of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

How do they pay you?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:01

So this is also this is free PayPal.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:06

Yeah, this is what I'm I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:08

So the first the first money I made off of some beats, it was this group from Pittsburgh. Um, I forgot their names. But they they Western Union me the money, and then I put the beats on CD, and then once I got the money, then I mailed them the disc. That's a lot of trust. Because and you know, now you know somebody hearing this might say, why don't you just email it? Because you only had but like three megabytes of space to email. Y'all don't realize y'all got it easy.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:46

What if you were an artist? What's the a roughly price for beats? Like when I'm purchasing beats, like what's the give us a give us a then and then a now.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:56

I mean, it's it's it's art. Uh-huh. So you get to charge, and you you're the one that made it, you get to charge what you want. That's true. But like, I didn't really have uh, there was nobody I really could look to, like how much are they charging for their beats or whatever? Like, also, you know, I'm young, I got this little raggedy foot locker check. You know what I mean? Anything bad. And and I'm just excited that the man, y'all, y'all want to well for one, like y'all are from Pittsburgh, yeah, and y'all want to wrap over these beats or whatever. Like, I might have I might have sold them like four beats for a hundred dollars. That sound that that feels about right. Like four beats for a hundred bucks. And um And what about now? Like, what's like like now I do uh like an hourly rate, you know, okay. Um like a hundred an hour for custom uh production. Um but like I say, you know, you get to charge what you want. Um now, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:00

You can pull a Wu Tang and sell that album for a million dollars if you want. And that's that's another big difference between then and now um because the culture itself has proven that it has a track record for being influential. So thus your music, it can end up on a commercial being a target commercial, it could be on a target commercial, it can be used in the Olympics. Of course, we know they use it for sporting events, etc., all the time. Um, it could be sold anywhere. So that that is interesting to hear because I I I remember back in the day before you had your beat star and stuff like that. I was always asking people so how are you selling, like, how are you selling your music? Like, how do you go cash to ham for beat without the person being there with you? And people were literally sending cash. Checks in Western Union. That's what people remember in the mail. In the mail.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:49

And you would have to trust that the person would then send you, sell you, send you the product. Did you ever have any hiccups with that?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:56

Oh man, uh, yeah, there was uh there was one time, and I was, you know, a little too trusting. Um, you know, and uh the person, the person sent said that they sent the Western Union or whatever. It was like, oh yeah, yeah, it should be there in a minute or whatever. And so I'm like, oh cool, I'll go in ahead and mail the CD. Oh no. And Western Union never came through. And we can't get the mail out.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:22

That's crazy how much time has changed since then.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:25

And then you can reverse payments nowadays, you can stop, you could do all that.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:29

They track everything, they track it all, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:31

Um but yeah, so but around that same time, um, and who knows? I like I need to go back and look like when did PayPal actually like start? Because what prompted me to look for another way was that situation, and I ended up finding, okay, there's this PayPal thing, you know, yeah, secure PayPal. And you can link it to link it to your bank account and everything. And and also, you know, that was a way, and that was really that was a way for you know people to make their eBay purchases. eBay is uh, you know, that's that was a big and big, yeah. It worked for it worked for both of that.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:07

And so now you know who was there at the beginning of PayPal? Elon Musk. Yeah, he was there. He wanted to call it X back then, I believe it. And it didn't happen. Yikes thankfully. But go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:20

But uh but yeah, PayPal, eBay, where was I going? I'm an old man, I gotta walk myself into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:29

PayPal to the eBay, and we're getting to because you were making your first money, had some issues, some hiccups in there.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:34

So you asked, so you asked about like, you know, going into like the remixes and everything. Yeah. So 2003, um you know, I mentioned the whole like Kanye thing and everything. But uh another album that came out in 2003 was The Listening by Lil Brother.

unknown 1:09:51

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:52

And like it's and they're from so one is dope. Two, they're from North Carolina.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:03

Not too far away.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:04

Three, they're producers using Fruity Loops, also.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:07

Yes, that was a big thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:08

So I'm immediately, I'm immediately a Ninth Wonder fan. Um and so that was like very inspirational, you know what I mean? I got some like, like I'm we're using the same stuff. We're both in the Carolinas. Like, that was definitely like somebody that I looked up to. Um, and I was already doing like some remixing, like one-off tracks here and there. Because also like now you can use AI and make a cappellas.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:35

True.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:36

Back then, if the a cappella, it was a while before we even figured out how to do the DIY, the do-it-yourself acapellas, which is a weird process. I won't even go into that.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:46

You don't got to do it anymore. And it's still stems. You got these stems nowadays.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:52

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got everything. But so like if they didn't back then, if the record label didn't put out a cappella, it just wasn't no a cappella. Yep. So the stuff that I could find, um, and I actually I put out, I put out uh what I call it. I called it Southern Comfort. It was uh like like maybe my first mix CD, mixtape. And it was just, you know, some a bunch of you know songs that I remixed with it. It was like uh T I B Easy, Young Drove, Shoulder Lean. Yeah, uh some Young Bloods remixes up there and everything. I'm actually gonna be like releasing that as like a throwback or whatever because I found the I found the CD and I'm gonna, you know, upload it and everything. Fat Rat did the intro. Wow. Yeah, it was a it was a fun time. But um, so um Knife Wonder remixed uh Nas's godson. Remember, they called it Godstepson or whatever. So that was making its way around the internet and everything. Um and the record label that they were on, so they started a collective, little brother and all of their other friends from New York, not I'm sorry, not New York, North Carolina that all wrapped also. They started this this group, this collective called the Justice League. Yeah, Justice League was dope.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:16

God started.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:17

The Justice League had a a website called The Lawn. And that was a they had a message board, and all uh just about all of the members were like regular posters on the message board. That was a way to get in contact with them and like share your music with them, have conversations with them, you know, whatever the topic was or whatever. Um, and so that's one of the first places I went to share the music that I was making. Um and um so knife put out God's stepson, it's it was great and everything. And so I don't remember how I got my hands or if somebody sent me um the a cappellas for uh the blueprint. I was about to ask, yeah. How did it, yeah? I don't remember how that got a hold of that. But also, like I would scour the internet for samples, like all sorts of stuff, you know, uh albums. Uh while this is also happening, mainstream music is kind of taking a tank.

unknown 1:13:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:19

So if you did have access to a computer and the internet and knew about, you know, different places to go, because like now you're able to get exposed to, you know, like-minded, for lack of a better term, like like-minded people, people doing hip-hop music from anywhere in the world, really, or other side of the country, you know, and you get to like y'all get to share, yeah, you know. Um, so um I might have found the blueprint uh acapellers on some blog, somebody that posted, you know, people were posting all sorts of like links for you to like download zip folders.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:01

Yeah, that's a different era. Oh man, air is different.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:04

Um I got a hold of it, and I I remember getting on, because we weren't using Google yet. I remember getting on Yahoo to see if is there anybody else that has anybody remixed the blueprint, really? You know what I mean? And I didn't see anything up there, and so I got busy. And, you know, and maybe in like a weekend. Seriously, this is yeah, yeah. I like I locked in because like I wanted to be kind of like the first, you know what I mean? I wanted to have the best because people are starting to remix. Like, re like remix culture took a whole, you know, another like lift off. Um, one, and not just knife wonder doing God Stepson. You also had Danger Mouse. Good point. Yeah, yeah. Danger Mouse was remixing, Danger Mouse was remixing all sorts of like crazy stuff or whatever. So I wanted to have the best, and I wanted to be the first if I could, you know. Um, and so uh DJ Dice, like I had him put he was doing graphic design, he still does graphic design, but I just had like a idea of this is the original. I actually just you know redesigned the the cover, but the original one was basically like you know, blueprint kind of like crossed out, and then the new print, and I forced my name in there, Mitty Mark, you know what I mean. And uh, you know, I didn't do all of the songs, so I like crossed out the songs that I didn't do for the back cover or whatever. Put some logos up there, like that had nothing to do with anything. It was a little bit of like it was it was funny, it was an inside joke, but then also like ended up people thought that I had like some actual sponsorships or whatever. Like there was an MTV logo that I'm gonna do. Shut the front door, man. Shut the front door. So so people like, like, yo, MTV rocking with this? And I didn't, I you know, I didn't I didn't I didn't volunteer any information. I was like, Yeah, man, yeah, you know, you know, they uh they rock with it. They rocking with it, you know what I mean? Yeah, MTV. Right. And so uh and yeah, and and then put it on, shared it to the shared it on like the Justice League message boards, yeah, but also shared it on like OK Player. Oh my god. They had their message boards, it was that was like that was a place. Like you can mess around, like if you wanted to, you get an argument with Quest Love. Yep, right there. You know, right there on the spot.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:33

Before they got the new little rooms and stuff now that they got, I forget what they call a little chat room.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:37

Yeah, before all of that. With with uh you get a whole argument with Quest Love on the uh argument though.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:44

He's always up, he's always up for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:46

Um but uh and so I posted it on that, and what I didn't know, which ended up you know working for me, um I'm not you know, there's people from all over the world coming to this place. And maybe they don't comment, but it's like, should you throw a link up there? They gonna click. They gonna click, they gonna click. And they might post some feedback, you know. I definitely, you know, there were more clicks, you know, on the on the link than there were like feedback or whatever. Um and the people that are downloading, you know, this remix album, they got blogs of their own. True. This is like the beginning of the blog era. And they're posting it on their blog. It's spreading. Free exposed. Yeah. So it's like, so like after a while, like that was that was like the first one. Because also, you know, it's Jay-Z. And it's like you gotta have like people to this day still say that like that's his best album.

unknown 1:17:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:46

And if it's not his best, like it's it's one of his best albums. It's some of his best work. And you know, it got vintage, Kanye, and Just Blaze and everything like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:56

All together.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:57

There was a whole era that kind of got ushered in off of that album. Yeah. And it led right into because they had the takeover on it, yeah. Which led right into Still Maddox, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:08

That is true. That's very true.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:09

Um, so so that was like I didn't, I couldn't tell because I hadn't figured it out yet, like how to have it where I do how many people were clicking on. Um, because I was using like mega upload, yeah, the metrics. Yeah, the metric. So like I was using mega upload or like Z Share or the different, you know, links where you could like zip stuff up and everything. Um, but I could tell something was happening because I signed into my Myspace page. And, you know, the number of plays, and also I got like Jay-Z, I got however many I could upload to my MySpace, yeah. You know, like on, you know, the player or whatever. And I'm getting all these wild friend requests. The the numbers were just like, you know what I mean? So I'm like, wow, like people are people are listening. They're responding. They're responding. Um, I and by that, so I saw what it did for Danger Mouse, Knife Wonder. I'm trying to be in the mix with that also.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:11

And so then I just started looking for other, like, what else can I remix? I remember it was this weird, it was a French hip-hop site that had Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:21

Like, I want I want I want it all.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:23

I want it all. Unbelievable. It was this weird French. I say it was weird, but it was really just French. I couldn't understand everything. But I saw that they had, I don't even know how they got them. Uh they had the a capellus to still matter. Shut up.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:38

So then that's a French website.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:41

I downloaded it, and once again, I got busy. And a lot of people. Back then, like I'm a lot more calculated and considerate when it comes to like composing anything now these days. But back then, give me a weekend, and it's the whole thing is is done or whatever. Um, I had uh I had a manager at the time, uh, Jonathan Masters, and he he knew this graphic designer that did the original you know artwork for it, which is pretty much like the same artwork, but the background the cities is like on fire, is like almost like this apocalypse.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:20

So he knew the person that did the background art, the art for the no, he had somebody like redo.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:27

Oh, they did it for you, Fred. They redid the album cover for me. That's dope. So like the difference in the difference in the blueprint, the original artwork for the the new print, yeah, versus you know, the still matic remixes, the day things got ill, yeah. Like night and day, level up on that one. Um, that ended up making it onto uh hip hop dx, which was another, you know, great bit of exposure. But then it was also on the so there's a whole bunch of things that kind of like collide or like overlap or whatever. So you talked about like the MySpace era. So this is MySpace era, MySpace era going into the blog era and also going into the mixtape era. And so uh sites like that piff are brand new. I was about to ask, yeah. They're so they're so brand new and neat and needing and warning content that they they I wish I still had the email address. They they reached out to me and DJ Cannon Banion, who's uh number one mixtape DJ in the Southeast in South Carolina, you know. Um, they reached out to us asking, hey, will you please upload your music?

SPEAKER_06 1:21:43

We need it. We need it.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:45

Because they would, I mean, you see how, you know, they ended up, you know, the mixtape blew up. The idea of the mixtape blew up.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:53

It just went crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:55

And those websites blew up along with it because it was like the place you could go. Then they started getting exclusives and everything. Yeah um, and me and DJ Dice, specifically when me and him got together, because we were both kind of like computer nerds.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:09

And we were trying to figure out like all that we could do digitally with our music and our mixtapes and everything, and we wanted the metrics.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:19

See, that's what matters, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:21

And so when we uh it's in so it started, a fan downloaded one of the mixtapes and put it on a torrent website. Okay. Torrents. And so that's right. And like and and the and also like the thing that worked out, like the the stuff that I have remixed, it's all the music, even before I remix it, like it aged well. You know what I mean? Like you can still put in blueprint, you can still put in still matic, you know what I mean? So that worked in my favor. And then when it hit the torrent websites, like that's when literally the whole world is going to these torrent websites to download the latest music at the time. Um, and so like, yeah, uh, you know, you mentioned like 100,000 for the the Jay-Z, but it was like, you know, quarter million downloads on the Nas. Uh, like the numbers were ridiculous. And once again, we're young doing this stuff, whatever, like, not really with a plan, just like what can we do? Yeah. And we're just doing it, we're just going. And we'll figure out what we need through the mistakes and everything. So it's like uh there's like a reset that's happening, and it's kind of cool because I kind of feel like I get to like do everything over again with the knowledge that I picked up.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:44

Um, because just about all of those websites that I was getting interviewed on, uh, they were posting the tapes and everything, and even like the message boards, whatever, like a lot of them have been shut down. Or the people who were running it decided they don't want to do it anymore. And so that's a whole it's digital, and anything digital can be deleted, it can be erased. And so now it's like, let's do this again. Now I got control over the metrics through my website. Um, and I can, you know, I can print out a PDF of okay, this is what this did. You know what I mean? That's a jewel, that's a jewel for the audience listening.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:25

I was listening last night. I was like, I was writing, I was like, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:30

You're too bad. You're too bad. But then, but then also, you know, um, you know, people were actually, I was set up selling CDs at the the the 50 year celebration at uh First Thursdays. Yeah. And people were buying CDs.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:46

So it's like there's still that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:49

There's there's still there's still a market for CD. But you know, also there's just like there's a demand, because you know, we can say, yeah, they're CDs, but really, they're collectibles. Exactly. They're collectibles, exactly. And you know, anybody who buys a CD, um, you know, if they want a digital copy, I got a QR code.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:08

That's my point. That's why you sell the CD. Wait, and it has a QR code on it. And you can get the digital, you get the digital version.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:15

If you don't want to open the CD, leave the seal. Leave the CD right there, digital version.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:19

You know, you give them all options.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:22

That's why I came back.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:24

The uh the power of branding, you know, branding yourself and becoming a brand.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:28

That's that's a that's I'm continuing to learn about that, but one thing that I did learn is that there was a whole, there was a lot of people in in Columbia that knew me, knew about my music, but maybe they didn't, you know, they don't rap, they don't sing. So like, and some people don't even really listen to hip-hop like that, but they like me as a person. You know, so when I launched my website and had the store with a hoodie available, hoodie and a t-shirt available, yeah, like that was a way for them, that was a way for them to like buy in um to the person. Because it's the person that makes these things, you know what I mean? Yeah, and so uh the amount of people that I've met, because some people met me and I was kind of on a break. Yeah. And, you know, when I was on the break, if I wasn't really sharing my music like that, you know, it might have been like a whole year, they didn't know I made music. They knew people knew me, you know what I mean, but like they didn't know that I had music available, you know what I mean? So um, but they didn't when they met me, they didn't meet me because of music, you know what I mean? Like just be out someplace, uh, you know, spend a lot of time at like Curiosity Coffee, just getting in conversation with people, just chilling, you know? Yeah, um, and it was like, yeah, I'll buy I'll buy a hoodie with your name on it, you know. Um and so I'm just I'm just learning the power of uh engaging with people. Yes, it's very um the power of um a logo or a brand. Um and how you know without any text on this hoodie that I'm wearing, like it's just a hoodie. But as soon as I put this on it, like now it's art. Yeah and it's collectible. Yeah, you know, and it's limited, you know, because like it's not like I got a big machine behind me, you know what I mean, that's you know, gonna that these hoodies are always gonna be available. Like you'll always be able to, well, you know, I don't want to downplay myself, you know what I mean, but like uh, you know, one day maybe the, you know, there'll always be a MIDI mark hoodie that you can get, you know, and it maybe be in bigger store. Who knows? You know what I mean? Like the possibilities uh is limitless, you know, it's endless. But uh, but yeah, you know, so I'm I'm still learning just the power of uh, yeah, the power of, you know, a logo or brand, um, and just the different things you can put it on and slogans, you know. Uh I'm I'm still I'm still very much a student. I'm seeing exactly like how crazy I can get and how far you can push those limits. Like I'm all of my you know ideas, they start off in my head or whatever, and then some of them, like as I speak it, it might sound a little ridiculous, but I'm kind of embracing my ridiculousness. Yeah. As you should. Because like there was a whole season where I was like photoshopping hot dogs in the celebrities' hands.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:50

I did see the picture with the baby and the hot dog. I was like, I wonder what this one means.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:55

That was a don't need to overthink it. The baby was hungry. It was reaching for the hot dog. But uh, I mean, you know, in like that that ridiculousness ended up turning into, you know, like a whole addition to or expansion of like hot dog culture. Like me and my friends, like, we don't call them hot dogs anymore, we call them pigeons. And we had and I had a pigeon party. I had two, three pigeon parties at the Warmouth. Um, and it where we just got together, we ate hot dogs, there was music playing. I want to come to the pigeon party.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:33

I'll I'll let you know when the next one is, man. My wife always beats me up about it. She said, You love these darn damn uh uh I say, Yeah, I don't care. This is one of my favorite.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:42

You a pigeon lover.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:43

I'm a pigeon lover, man. I'm not gonna lie. A pigeon pile. A pigeon pal. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:47

I like that. See, you know, you got me on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:49

There you go. But um, yeah, so just embracing my ideas, you know. Yeah. Um like they literally they literally come from a higher power. When your birthday ether. When your birthday. January 28th.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:06

Oh, Aquarius or Aquarius. Aquarius.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:09

They like they literally came from a question. It took a little longer than I expected.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:12

You don't come off as an Aquarius.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:14

Look at her. She this is her thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:16

If you haven't seen it, I've been trying to pick up on what I think your sign would be, but I that's why I just had to ask you because I don't, I had no clue.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:24

Well, I've seen stuff talking about like who's an Aquarius with a moon and something. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:30:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:31

And so it seems complex.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:33

It is very complex. Yeah, it's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:36

But yeah, just embracing uh my ideas, like my ideas come from God. Like, especially, you know, I'm just sitting in someplace, like the the situations that lead into an idea, you know, I feel like, yeah, you know, God is throwing me a throwing me a seed, you know what I mean? And I plant and, you know, water. Um, so no matter how crazy it seems, like the the Grits uh sweatshirt. Um I literally had a photo shoot for grits here. Like I called my uh partner uh Brody Porterfield, who was a very talented uh photographer and musician. Um and I told him I was like, hey man, uh you feel like coming over and taking pictures of the perfect bowl of grits? And he's I got I got a lot of friends. I got a lot of friends that support my crazy ideas.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:37

But the hoodie, the sweatshirt is nice. You gotta see it on the website.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:40

It's uh, you know, so he came through, I made the perfect pot of grits with the butter. Oh yeah, that butter was strategically placed, and he he was snapping as it was like dripping down the side and everything. And um, and yeah, so like that's a that's an actual the bowl of grits on the grits uh sure is uh an actual bowl of grits that I made that Brody Porterfield took the pictures for.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:04

It's like was it and the bowler grits was consumed by many? Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:08

See, this is real. You know, there might have been some bacon involved. There might have been some baking.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:16

That's me up.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:16

Okay, you know, and uh it was a good, it was a it was a good time, but yeah, little little stuff like that, you know what I mean? Like, no matter how you know crazy the idea seems or whatever, like I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:27

But that's good, and you still execute your ideas. You see what I'm saying? You don't just like let them linger. You're like, uh no, we just need to get done.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:33

Yeah, yeah, get out my head. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:36

Do you have any upcoming projects that we should be on the lookout for?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:40

Man, me and Fat Ray got something special in the works. Hey. Um, me and DJ Dice and DJ Canon Banyan. Like, who like I met, well, I met Banyan like pretty early on, but like you started doing mixtapes and I started making remixes. And so then my remixes had a home. If I remixed uh, you know, one of the later uh current songs or whatever, like it had a special immediately on one of Cannon Banyan's mixtapes. Dice came into the fold, was making mixtapes, same situation with that. And so like we kind of were like a team during the mixtape era, and you know, life was life for a little while. We kind of separated for a little while. But like we we all back. Dice was with me at uh the past couple of pop-ups, whatever, selling CDs. Um, we we put out uh Big X to Plug mixtape. These are artists out of uh Dallas.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:31

I was listening to it last night. Okay. See? I had to learn something about you. I was like, I gotta listen. I gotta you, I gotta know who I'm talking to.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:38

So I got you know, it's some it's some special things happening with uh with Fat Rat, special things happening with uh DJ Dice, DJ Cannon Banyan. Um it's an RB artist I've been working with, Gianna Shea. Um her project is done. And you know, figuring out what's next with that, you know. But um there's more remixes, you know. Um after the mic after the microphones uh cut off and everything, while we're eating some of this chicken pump that I make. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll play some of the I'll play some of the new stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:11

Oh sugar chick.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:13

Not the sugar chicken.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:14

We got the scoop. Y'all don't, y'all ain't ready for it yet. But you're gonna have to send it to us so we can put it on our playlist.

unknown 1:34:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:20

When time comes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:21

When time comes for the release. That's I actually I was listening to an album earlier and they gave me uh it gave me some ideas. Yeah, I'll be sending y'all some stuff. Please do.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:32

Please do, yeah. We we love that. And um one one last question, we're gonna we're gonna get on it so we can enjoy this food, because we're gonna wrap up. Um Do you take a break? And when you take a break, how do you like, how do you make sure you live in life and not just working?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:48

So that's interesting, like I left, I left corporate America, yeah, and now, you know, I'm a small business owner, uh-huh, full-time creative. Uh-huh. Um, and so I do have to like stay on, keep myself on task because I can get distracted by something simple, it's just like a new Netflix show. You know what I mean? Just binge watch it. And you know, and working from home and home being comfortable. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:20

It's hard to separate.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:22

So, but then like when I am working on music um or cooking, like, because I enjoy it so much, it doesn't feel like work. Um but you know, I guess something that I do to balance things out, it's like I do spend some like good quality time with my friends. Okay. Um so yeah, that's that's something I do to, or in quality time my friends with my mom. Yeah, you know, uh and because I mean there was a lot that I, there was a lot of that that I missed out on when I was, you know, uh, when I was working uh my job. Down. And there was, there would have, you know, I could have, I'll put it this way, it was a lot more difficult and challenging to put priority on things like that because of the whole, you know, the busyness, the rat race. You remember how the world was before COVID shot everything down? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything, everybody was, nobody was ever home. Nope. You know, everything was so busy and this everything work days and everything. And uh, and so that's that's something I do to keep balance, it's quality time with with my friends.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:31

We like our audience to hear that because something important for them to uh understand how that should be millennials. Oh my Lord Jesus, because we've been taught not to do that, we don't technically have downtime. Um so it's good to hear that.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:42

And then it's always this. Yeah, that's why I'm saying there is no downtime time.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:46

Yes, there's yeah. So I really, you know, I hate that it's more technology that allows this to happen or whatever, but like I really love my Apple Watch. Yeah, because I can leave my phone someplace and still be able to. And like, you know, if it's an important text message, which I feel weird saying that because I feel like there's not really such a thing as an important text message.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:06

It's an important text message.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:08

Yeah, an important email, yes. Yes, yes, but that's good business, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, not but either way, um, so yeah, but I don't have to, you know, occasionally doing this, which I don't do that as much as I would this anytime it lights up, you know. Yep. So I I do appreciate that because that's definitely the the phone is a distraction, and also, you know, like the the different like ways people cope with on-the-spot anxiety, yes, which is a lot of you know for me is would would be this, yeah, you know, and now being able to like actually maybe try to like tune in with myself and figure out okay, like what am I anxious about right now versus the distraction of just like just aimlessly scrolling on the more presentation? You're more present. Absolutely being more present. Um and even like you know, which which was which has been like a which formed a habit of not always picking up my phone. I don't even know if I even picked it up while we were having this conversation because we so proud of you. You did not to look at it. Thank you. Yeah, you did it. I really do. Yeah, because like you know, we can't see ourselves, you know what I mean. So like there's you know areas where maybe I could give myself a pat on the back, but I can't see it. Yeah, yeah. So you need people. So you know what I mean? Say, you know what you did? Yeah, you all gave me a round of applause.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:39

We like the people we see. Look, if we sit down and talk with you, we we probably like you.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:44

We don't, we don't. This is why I tell people, it's not that we're we're definitely not funny style on what we do, but we aren't gonna sit down with somebody just for clout, yeah.

unknown 1:38:53

Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:54

And we want to support you any way we can, like, yeah, that's what we do.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:57

We love to support you. We were raised by good people. I tell people all the time, like, I have some real quality folks behind me. I didn't just pop up here by myself. Came from good stock. Good stuff. Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:08

So, where can people find you on social media?

SPEAKER_01 1:39:11

All the socials, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:12

So I'm on uh I'm on Instagram at uh at MIDI Markham. That's M-I-D-I-M-A-R-C-U-M. Um, my name is Markham. And uh it's kind of like uh that was my way of bridging the two things, whatever. Like midi, like MIDI has always been like the music or whatever, but like there's all of these things, these other things that I do creatively that is Markham, you know what I mean? So um, and also when I was going for the Midi Mark uh domain, it was taken already. What? So I was like, well, I got to do something, so Midi Markham, you know. There you go. Um, but yeah, so I'm Midi Markham on uh Instagram. Uh you can look up Middlemarkham on uh Facebook also. Um and you can always go to the website midimarkham.com.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:59

Buy merch.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:00

Buy merch. Buy merch. You can uh you know, hit the music tab. Yeah for rooms. Yes, yes, tiptoe through the catalog. Yes. I have 29 projects available on hand cap.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:12

Right here, right here. Right there.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:15

We're not supposed to be looking at the camera now. No, no, no, no. So you're so what I just did. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:21

All right. You can visit midimarkham.com, M-I-D-I-M-A-R-C-U-M. Towe through the catalog, peruse, buy merch. Hit the share button. Send it to somebody you like that might like it also.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:40

Replay it if you have to.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:42

Yes. Excellent, excellent. And um, but we uh uh as we as we close out, I do want to let folks know if you heard a nice little child in the background. That's Savannah. So shout out to Savannah. She's been so good. She's been so good. Y'all don't realize she's excellent because her little friend is locked up outside and free rushing. Free rushing free to guys. So after we finish out, we're gonna let them get some freedom because she was enjoying hanging out with her friend today. But we had to make sure we had a great conversation so we had to control the environment. But um, signing out from the Hilltop Glove podcast, DJ and what?

SPEAKER_06 1:41:17

Tamaya.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:18

In the background, we got skip and then our esteemed guest. Oh, I'm esteemed too. Ooh, we uh minimark.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:26

We're gonna have to get your autograph after that. Seriously, I'm gonna love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:30

I already got my fat mass. I already got them autographs, they got my stuff. We got my mini mark.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:35

I done been encouraged.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:36

I done applauded. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:38

Now we're about to get fat.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:39

Come on. So we're about to go enjoy ourselves. You enjoy yourselves. And if you have somebody that's next to you, got some family members, etc., friends or whatever, tell them that you love them. Um please support your folks, man. Be good out there until next time. Peace.