SPEAKER_03 1:45

Welcome to the Hilltop Glove Podcast. Today we are thrilled to have an exceptional guest. Dr. Mervin Spectac Jenkins, a multi-talented MC, educator, and community leader whose journey through the hip hop landscape is nothing short of inspiring. Spectac first made waves in 1993 with his memorable verse on the track Hookahs from the underground South Carolina group The Flavor. That's it. Throughout his career, Spectac has worked alongside some of the industry's greats, including Ninth Wonder, DJ Shaquim, and longtime collaborator Amari Gamble. With a voice that resonates both lyrically and academically, Spectac uses his platform to inspire and educate professionally flocabulary. Blending hip hop culture with valuable life lessons, join us today as we dive into this journey, exploring his evolution in the industry, the importance of community, and the power of music to uplift and educate. Whether you're a longtime fan or new to his work, this episode promises to be a rich and enlightening experience. Let's go. Yay!

SPEAKER_04 2:59

How are you doing today? Yes. Pretty good, man. Pretty good. Excited to um be with you guys. Excellent, excellent, man. This interview has been a long time in Jamaica. But I think everything happens for a reason. And so yeah, we're just like I said, we're just uh thankful, blessed to be able to sit down with you because I know you're very busy. Yes. I know you move a lot. Like I said, you're doing you know productive things, obviously. Yeah, we move.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

And I heard a lot about you from my brother and other people. Um, as we were telling you earlier, we did a project um alongside some work with um alternative roots. Oh, and yeah, and and trying to document some South Carolina hip hop history for the 50th anniversary. We thought it was so important because South Carolina, first of all, for people who don't know, is a landmark place for most American music. American. We're talking about bluegrass, um, we're talking jazz, uh, pop funk, all of these folks who do American music, there are a lot of roots here in South Carolina, but for some reason nobody talks about us when it comes to music.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

So, interesting fact, and um I'm so off script right here, but what up, J-Man? Make yourself at home. Um very, very interesting um that you say that because I remember back in the 90s, I was working with an independent record label, RB Group, and this promoter came down from Baltimore, Maryland, and he said to me, he said, you know, man, you guys shouldn't even try to become uh nationally recognized coming out of South Carolina as musicians because the way the industry looks at you guys, you're the perfect testing ground. And what I mean by that, back in the 90s, you could come to South Carolina, and I don't care what type of hip hop music you were listening to, there was an audience for it in South Carolina.

SPEAKER_04 5:04

So, in other words, if it was booty music, you had an audience.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

If it was New York rap, quote unquote, you had an audience. If it came out of New Orleans, West Coast, you had an audience. Unlike those other regions where if you were on the West Coast, I mean, yeah, you had heads that were like, give me the New York stuff, but for the most part, they wanted West Coast music, which is why an artist like um Sir Mixelot could go platinum just in his state. You know, like but that wasn't happening. The Carolinas was truly a testing ground for almost any sound. And the guy said to me straight up, that's why you guys are gonna never have like an artist to blow major from South Carolina, because you are the testers, and we need you to keep testing. Wow. Now again, that's just what somebody shared with me. Yeah, but I'm like, hey, here we are, 2024. Yeah, it's sure. I mean, has anybody truly blown up? No. Especially on the hip-hop side of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we've had some we've had some home runs, yeah, but it hasn't been considered.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

Instrumental music, yeah, some jazz groups. Yeah, yeah. Like I said, Americana in general, because everything comes out of here, but you're right, hip-hop-wise, no. Boom.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Yeah, I just thought that was interesting, man. So it is it is funny you say that.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Wow, no, because that that makes sense and it makes so much sense too um with us coming here and talking to you today, because part of the reason for doing so is with our podcast, we're focusing on basically creating a a digital Rolodex, almost a networking guide for millennials who have questions and concerns about how to be successful as adults without a roadmap, not knowing the difference between the other things. You shouldn't have questions, man. I mean questions. Yep, so we gotta start off.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

We'll start off with number one. Yep. So um the primary question we want to ask is of course, because like I said, I know we've been in conversation over the past year, year and a half. So can you just um describe for our audience your journey from hip hop to where you are today?

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Alright, so so going back uh with the um intro, the flavor, yeah, that group, um, the song was actually called Hookers. Uh just everything was it, it was that era where you spelled everything different. That's just what it was. Um 1983, man. 1983, I started freestyle rapping for the very first time. And and it was just by happenstance. I had a cousin from New York City. I grew up in rural South Carolina, a little town called Utahville. Oh, yeah, stand up. Archburg County. You know, hour 15 outside of uh Charleston, hour really from Charleston. But um, I had a cousin from New York, he came down, he got kicked out of middle school in New York, and you you know the routine. Yeah, they always have cousins from New York. Come down south and live with your grandparents. Yeah, you know, yeah. And um he was rapping and breaking. And I was like, yo, this looks pretty dope. So one day they would battle every day in the bathroom, and the battles would be intense, man, because the guys and girls would pack the bathroom, um, somebody's in the corner beeboxing for the acoustic, and guys would just go at it. Dang, yeah, you know, verse for verse. Yeah, and I was like, I was a spectator, like, dang, I want to get in this. So finally, one day, that cousin, and he wasn't a close cousin, he said to me, Um, yo, you on for the battle tomorrow, son. And I was like, Word? In my mind, I'm going, yo, I heard we're cousins, me and you gonna battle somebody. So I went home that night, I'm writing my rhyme, practicing, didn't do no schoolwork. Next day, first period went by, second period, all of a sudden it's lunchtime. I'm in the bathroom, and my cousin walks up, it's crowded, and he's like, Well, yo, since I'm the champ, you go first. And I'm like, what, me against you? Yeah. He's like, Yeah, what you thought? Yeah. I was like, man, I thought it was me and you against two other people. He's like, nah, son. So they start beatboxing, and obviously I got nervous. What I wrote totally just went from my head, and I just started rhyming. I knew I couldn't stand there and just do nothing. So I started talking about the raggedy ass Adidas he had on and busted jeans, and and needless to say, the crowd went crazy. He didn't get a chance to rap because they were screaming so loud and the bell rang to go back to class. A villain was born that day. We we never got along from that day forever.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

Oh, the villain's gonna be a big thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Yeah, that was the origin story for real. For him it was, yeah, and and for me as well, because I was like, yo, I can like make this up on the spot. And that's kind of how that came to be. But that was that was um 1983, man. Wow. So so a very long time ago in the galaxy far, far away.

SPEAKER_04 10:00

Man, so what? So I guess, because like I said, because I know a little bit about your story um as well. So so you were in Utahville, and your villain art got started. Right? But of course it continues.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:16

So, because you went to South Carolina State for undergrad, correct? Benedict. Oh, Benedict, okay. So what's a Benedict?

SPEAKER_03 10:23

Shout out to Benedict.

SPEAKER_04 10:25

Yep, tomorrow Benedict grad. So, what was it like on your journey when you got to college?

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Um, I I wasn't ready to learn. I mean, if I'm being honest with you. The funny thing is, I remember being in high school, and uh I was on the bus one day, and all of my friends were like yelling out what colleges they had been accepted to. I was a 12th grader. And um, you know, folks are like, oh, I'm going to Clemson, oh, I'm going to South Carolina State, I'm going here, Claflin. And um, as it got to me, someone said, Yo, Spect, where you going? And I looked up, I was like, yo, I'm moving with my aunt in far rock away, Queens. I'm gonna be a rapper. And my friends were like, All right, you know, they they knew me for rapping.

SPEAKER_04 11:07

They were like, all right, yeah, no, we can see that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Problem is, I went home and told my mom that. My mom, mind you, she's a school teacher. Oh. She's like, What? I don't think so. And we got into this huge argument, man. And I remember it was probably the biggest argument we had been in up to that point, yeah, and of course, never since. And the argument ended because after going back and forth of her asking me the question, so Mervyn, if you had applied to college like your friends did, you and I wouldn't be having this conversation. I said, Absolutely not, but I didn't apply to college, so let me go to New York. If it doesn't work, I'll come back in a year and do whatever you want me to do. And she was like, All right, but you're telling me if you had applied to college and been accepted, we wouldn't be having this argument. I said, Yep. Man, my mom reached behind her back, she handed me two envelopes. I tore open the first one, they were addressed to me.

SPEAKER_04 11:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

I tore it open, it was like Dare Mervyn. Thank you for applying to South Carolina State University. We look forward to seeing you in the fall. What? And I popped the second one. Same thing, but it was Benedict. And I was like, Yo, mom, I ain't applied to college. Yeah. And she smiled and she was like, Yeah, I applied for you. And so I went to so I went to college bad, man. I only chose Benedict because it was further away from my mom and dad than South Carolina State was.

SPEAKER_04 12:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

I knew South Carolina State. I used to sneak up there and party on the campus. So I knew South Carolina State.

SPEAKER_04 12:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

I had no idea about Benedict, but I went.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

And um, you know, I mean, honestly, first couple years, I got arrested for some petty stuff. Uh, but it was bad because here I am looking to get certified in teaching.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

And if you got a criminal record, you don't get certified for teaching. So I had to go through pretrial intervention, get that cleared away. But I mean, again, stealing a pack of cigars, um, to be honest with you, black and mild cigars. Oh man, yeah. That's another story in itself. But um, but but yeah, but I mean, eventually, um, student teaching, like like being able to go out and have that practice with my student teaching, that was an eye-opener. There were a few other um instances that things happened that just made me see it was time to switch it up. Okay. You know, I mean, I mean a perfect example. I was hanging with a group of guys that none of us knew our government names. I and and and and I remember the night I broke from that crew, uh, we were all in the room. I wasn't smoking weed, but some of them were smoking weed, some were drinking. I didn't really drink. Yeah. Um, I definitely have my cigars, of course, my black and miles. And I stopped the the whole room and I was like, yo, guys, man, like, why don't we spend time like studying together in the library and uh taking turns going to each other's home, meeting parents on the holidays. And I remember the room got quiet, and I'm thinking to myself, oh, it's it's going over well. And then somebody was like, yo, whatever you smoking, son, I want that. And they all bust out laughing. And I was like, yo, I'm out. And I literally walked out of the room. And as I'm walking down the hall, I can hear them laughing, like, yo, what's up, inspect? That dude's yo, he's bugging. And I was like, man, just turn around, go back in the room and tell them you were just playing and let it be what it is. And then something was like, nah, kid, keep walking. And and literally, literally, that was the game changer, man. Great grays changed overnight, felt like. And um, I saw the people who were really supporting me, my parents, they they saw the change and it just made them happy, man, which made me feel good, you know. Yeah. I mean, we we spent a lot of time looking for acceptance from our peers. And the reality is our peers usually can't do much for us, man. People we spend our, especially as a youth. Yeah. Yeah, you spend time trying to impress folks with your fat string Adidas or whatever the case might be. I mean, think about that right now, man. Like it it didn't matter what sneaker I had in high school at this point in my life.

SPEAKER_04 15:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Like it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_04 15:23

Oh, it doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

It doesn't matter, man. So, so um, and and I get it, when you're in that moment, it's hard to navigate. And that's one of the things that life through music is all about when I'm talking with kids about peer pressure. You know, peer pressure is something that rides us from birth to the casket. I'm I mean, trust me, even as an old person, you're sitting down, my dentist is better than your dentures. Like, like, like, like it never leaves, all right? Yeah, it's a turtle, yeah. Yeah, man. So um, how do you how do you navigate those things? And that's that's a big part of um kids seeing success early in life, man, learning how to navigate things such as peer pressures.

SPEAKER_04 16:02

So if you could just share with us a little bit about our life through music and just how that got started, just journeyed to that piece.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Um my life through music. Uh I I was always the reluctant learner. And when I came up with the idea to start doing those workshops with educators, it was really through the lens of uh how do we engage the reluctant learner. Every everybody would love a scenario as a teacher or administrator where every school, every kid came to school ready to learn. But that's just not the reality. You know, I mean you're lucky if you get 25% of your audience ready to learn. The rest of them, you gotta find out what connects, what ticks. So my work with Life Through Music, I try to engage several different audiences. Um, community stakeholders is one, obviously the students are another, administrators, and then classroom teachers. And the gist of it is, man, I really try in the in the workshops to get the adults to realize that we can be the most detrimental part of a student's experience. We can make or break a student. And even as a school principal, I used to ask a question in the interviews to teacher. Every teacher I interviewed, what puts a kid at risk? And usually I would interview with a team of teachers because I always wanted my teachers to have buy-in on who we were bringing in to be a part of the community. But I didn't ask questions. I let the teachers ask the questions of the candidate, and then my last question, the final question was tell me what puts a student at risk. And I can tell you, most teachers, oh, um, single-family home, uh, drugs in the community. And and while all that may be correct, yeah, the answer I was looking for is if you were gonna say that, also we as adults, yeah, as the adults in the building, can put students at risk. Yes. And every now and then I would get a teacher to say that. And the teacher team, the team of teachers, they got so used to it that when a teacher would say it, they would just give that funny smile and look at me like, okay, we know you're about to hire this person. But that's what I was looking for because you know what? That meant that that was somebody who could self-reflect.

SPEAKER_04 18:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Oh. That meant that when it was time to do those um teacher interviews as a principal, um, and and say what's working, what's not working, when I would give feedback, it was going to be accepted and not just, you know, you're giving feedback, and for everything you're telling them, they're responding with why that didn't work out. Well, you didn't have this written on the board. Oh, yeah, I know it wasn't there, but um, I read an article where it says, don't write it at the start. Like, nah, stop all the excuses. And and that's what I look for in people, man. I'm I mean, I'm 53 now, and I still look for people um for a mentorship. And sometimes that's folks that's younger than myself, sometimes they're older. And um, I I've never tried to be stuck in that box where you can't learn something. The day you stop learning, that's the day you stop living. Yeah, that's true. That's that's just what it is. Oh, I agree. If you're being honest about it.

SPEAKER_04 19:19

So next question I have, because of course you're in education now. Um how did you so did you go, so did you go into the classroom directly or did you go into administration? How did that fools that process?

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Um graduated Benedict, certified teacher, and went to work full-time at a record store in Columbia, South Carolina. Sounds sounds familiar. Okay. Wow that job. Yes, mom and pop. I I I thought, and I'll be honest with you, uh, Hootie and the Blowfish, uh Darius Rucker. Yeah. Darius worked for Sounds Familiar. Oh, true. And when Hootie and the Blowfish blew up, he left Sounds Familiar and went and toured the world. So I'm like, yo, let me get a job at Sounds Familiar. Yeah, I can still do my music on the side. And and that's what I did for about a year and a half. And my mom was nagging me, like, yo, you got a uh a degree in education, and you're sitting here making $5.25 an hour at the record store. Um, because she was sending me an allowance every um month. Oh. And she was like, if you don't get a job, I'm not sending the allowance. And it wasn't the first time she had made that threat to me. And honestly, I remember back then I had an article, a little sh small article in Source magazine. Uh, West Coast had uh Rap Sheets magazine. I had a little article in Rap Sheets. Okay. So every time my mom would threaten me, I would mail her one of the articles. I'm about to make it. Like, like hang on.

SPEAKER_04 20:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

And um finally one day she was like, I'm done. And uh I go to the mailbox, I check, no money. So uh, of course I called and she's like, Mervin, I'm serious, that's it. So uh I started interviewing. I said, you know what? I got dreadlocks down to my ass. Nobody's gonna hire me for no teaching job. Now you see that these days, but back then you did not see that. Oh yeah. And I was like, nobody hiring me. So I came to my first interview. I drove from Columbia to Charleston. Yeah, interviewed with the principal, and um halfway back on the drive back, the principal called and said, Hey, I need you to start working on Monday.

SPEAKER_03 21:23

What year was that?

SPEAKER_00 21:24

That was 97.

SPEAKER_03 21:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

October 97.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

He called you back on the drive back?

SPEAKER_00 21:29

On the drive back to uh Columbia.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

In a car phone?

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Uh on the well, I had my little cell phone. Yeah. Yeah. I had my little cell phone. Okay, okay. And you know what? And now that I think about it, I remember what happened. He called my house phone, but I called from myself to check my voicemail. Oh, okay. And I had the message from him. So um, so I started um I started that uh Monday, man, and uh I I just um um sort of fell in love with it. I remember when the kids walked through the door, I was nervous as hell.

SPEAKER_04 22:02

You seem like you were a middle school teacher.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

I was middle school teacher. I just tell, yeah. But they came through the door and I just smiled and I was like, I'm home. Yeah. And uh man, and and and um one of the first things I did was uh implemented an uh art history curriculum that actually looked at hip-hop music and comparing some of the hip-hop greats to some of the Renaissance artists. Oh, wow. And that was very different. The principal allowed for it to pass through. The kids loved it. But I mean, I would do things like talk about how Tupac Shakur and um and uh Raphael Sanzio had so much in common. They both had the flamboyant lifestyle, they both died young, um, um, fashion uh crazy. Like, and the kids were able to connect with that, man. They made the connection, they got excited about you know, learning about the Renaissance artists. I give them a test, and you see them sitting there going, oh yeah, he's he's the one like Biggie Smalls. And and you know, but but but it worked, you know? And um, and then I started an after-school program called Ain't Nothing Like Hip Hop Music, and I would bring in local um folks that were doing it um big, and uh they would just talk with the kids about careers around the entertainment business.

SPEAKER_03 23:15

One of the first years?

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Oh yeah, one of the first guests was uh Rose Rod, my my godmother, but the mother of um the comedian Chris Rock. Right and um um I call her Mama Rock. Mama's been to every every school I've ever worked at, from here to North Carolina. Mama's visited and spoke to the um students, man. She comes here often and spends the weekend with us. But uh she's um she was the very first guest, um, The Flavor, which was the first hip hop group to sign a major deal. Yeah. Of South Carolina, they came, spoke with the kids. Um, DJs came in, like man, we we had a lot of fun, you know.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

And um, it had to be super oh yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

I had a principal like uh Merv, we got like mind you, class size, typical 25. At that school, 30 was more typical, but um, it wasn't nothing to have 40 kids in a class, man. But I didn't have any problems, man. No problems. Uh we had a good time, and again, I knew it was a calling. So after doing that for a year, I had uh the assistant principal at the time, Danny Alaggin, he walked up to me and said, Yo, man, you need to go back to school for your um administrative uh license. Um I can see you as an assistant principal. And um, I went back. I went back, I was um teaching full-time, uh Charleston Southern part-time, and that took about three years. The the the crazy thing is I was working part-time at night at the bowling alley, and it was cosmic DJing, which was something that was pretty new for the time. Yeah, you know, the the the twirling lights and and neon stuff, and I was the guy on the microphone giving out prizes and playing the music. They called it DJing, but I was just I just had one of those like 12 disc changes and I was queuing up country hip hop and then walking around with a mic and giving out prizes, but they were they were paying me, now mind you, this is like 1998, they were paying me like 25 bucks an hour. It was unheard of.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

I was I made five dollars an hour.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

I made more money doing that part-time than I was making full-time as a teacher. So that paid for my graduate degree. When I graduated, I walked out the door.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

No debt.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

No debt, because the bowling alley paid for it. Now it was a hard time because I was watching my cousins, they were going to Jack the Rapper, because mind you, they're they're like, like, like, like even that Wu-Tang series where they showed them at Jack the Rapper, yeah. My cousin and those were there. And and old dirty's in the room freestyling with them. Yeah. And they're calling me, telling me this, and I'm like, yeah, I'm going to class. Man, those three years ate me up. But um, at the end of the day, it was definitely worth it. And even as I was going through it, because I remember for three years, I didn't have a weekend. My weekends were at the bowling alley. I didn't miss a weekend. That's just what it was, man. But when I graduated, that's when I took off to Chapel Hill and actually went to the high school as a high school assistant principal in Chapel Hill.

SPEAKER_04 26:11

Oh, okay. Okay. And so that's how that, okay, that's how it starts. That's that's it. Awesome. Yeah. Man, I think one thing I love about your story is it's like you all it's like you have your, it's like you got two pools, right? No doubt. You got a hip-hop pool, and then you like you got the educational pool. It's like you caught it's like you've always had one foot in one pool and then one in another. But you're still able to stand. And I think that's what makes it really awesome.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

That's um, that's a nice segue to this piece because when I got to Chapel Hill, um obviously I fell in eventually. Long story, I I won't even tell that story, but I ended up being an affiliate of a group, the Justice League out of North Carolina. And um it was a it was a great relationship, but one of the things I'll never forget, I called up um Ninth one day, and and and mind you, that story with uh Ninth, Ninth was producing out of my apartment. I had a two-bedroom apartment, and Ninth studio was set. That's how the first album with Ninth happened. His studio was in the apartment, so I would come home from work as a high school assistant principal, and Ninth would be in the back making beats. So I walked through the door, suit and tie on, he'd be like, Yo, spent, yo, hop in the closet, yo, I got one for you. And I just get in the closet and start rhyming, and eventually that so that's how that album happened. But but I called Ninth one day. I said, Yo, Ninth, this hip hop and education thing is about to go nuts, son. And he was just like, Uh, you think so, man? I was like, Yeah. It's like, uh, I don't know. Yeah. It wasn't three months later, I get a call from Ninth, and he's like, yo, some guys reached out from New York. They're doing this um hip-hop uh music in the classroom, and they want me to do a few tracks, so why don't you come up and drop some um some uh joints with me? Da-da-da, you and median, and and that was vocabulary. That was vocabulary. That's how vocabulary started. That's how that was vocabulary. So I I I mean, funny how things came full circle. And and it was crazy because I showed up, first of all, I'm mad. And I never said this tonight, and we don't talk as much these days, but I never said this to him, but I was mad because I was like, dude, that's exactly what I was telling you was the jump off. Yeah, yeah, those guys um um um sold the company. I won't even put their business out there, but everybody in this room would be comfortably retired with what they walked away with after starting it. You know, I mean, hey, man.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

Yeah, that's it's everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, and and it's everywhere. Yeah, it's everywhere. You know, so um anyway, man, that's that's how the introduction with Flocabulary happened. And you know, burn bridges, man. I stayed tight with those guys. They would call me up and ask me the moonlight. Uh by that time, I was a middle school principal, and they would call me up and be like, yo, we got Chicago public schools wanting to do vocabulary. Can you fly up and do a training at the Navy Payo? So I would go up and do a district-wide training, and they pay me a few hundred bucks and take care of my flight and stuff. And then I come back and go back to being a principal. But I had no idea how big it had gotten until 2018. Yeah. I'm like at work in Cali, Anahan, and I get a call from one of the founders, and as soon as his name popped up, I kind of jokingly, but I knew, I answered and said, When can I start working? And he bust out laughing. He was like, Your spot is your um spotted senses never fail you, Speck. Yeah. And that was it. 2018. Okay. I was full-time with vocabulary. And I like to say it was a dream job, man. I I've I've always envisioned working with hip hop in education. And I get to um do that for educators, man, which is crazy important because you, you know, I always say, I'm not the most religious guy, but careful what you ask God for. Because I I'm gonna tell you guys this. I remember being very young and praying to God, saying, Hey man, I know most people want to get into this for the money and for the girls and the nice cars in the crib, but I just want to change lives. Now I'm gonna tell you guys right now, I was lying like a motherfucker. I was lying, straight lying. Yeah. I mean, yeah, you want to change lives, but of course I wanted the girls, the house, the cars. Everything advocating. Hey, I'm talking to God, so I can't ask for that. But I got exactly what I asked for. So whenever I get down and start to get upset, I'm like, dude, you got exactly what you prayed for. You want to change lives? Guess what? Those 30 teachers you're about to meet with, they're about to touch a thousand students, and them thousand students are gonna touch this many. You got what you asked for.

SPEAKER_04 30:49

Exactly. That's what it is. So a lot of people, like I said, because I'm familiar with vocabulary. Yep. Um, so for someone who may not be familiar with it or may not be involved in education, what is vocabulary?

SPEAKER_00 31:00

It's a K-12 digital platform that uses hip hop music and videos to pretty much engage students around vocabulary acquisition and reading comprehension skills. That's that's what the platform does, and it does it really well. I like to tell people when I speak with superintendents or principals that's what we do. Like, don't don't don't ask if we do this and if we do that because now you're asking me to lie to you. And as a principal, that's what I didn't like. If you were a salesperson and you came to me and everything I threw at you, you had an answer for it.

SPEAKER_04 31:36

That's a problem. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Man, you should have been on Oprah Winfrey's cops. Yeah, yeah. Like best-selling product. Yeah. Nah. Nah, nah. Right. Nah. And that's the beauty of ed tech, man. Yeah. Is you piecemeal it to make sure you're hitting all the cylinders for the students to get those engines revived, man. Like, like, like there is no one size fits all. Anybody that tells you that, you might as well start looking sideways at that product, man. What do you do really well?

SPEAKER_04 32:04

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

And rock with it. You know? And and and even as a team, you guys came in today and set up. I saw who was doing the work, moving around, the equipment, lighting things up while somebody else was sitting back going, you know what? My job is to get on and lay down the questions, and that's that's teamwork.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

That's teamwork. And it's one of the most beautiful things I like about the whole Super Friends concept, you know? Yeah, yeah. When it's alien encounters, you send Superman up there. If it's something going down street level thug, you get Batman down there. If it's underwater, you send Aquaman. Like that's teamwork, man. And and and and until we really get that, like so many of us want to play, it's it's one of the reasons why I think some of the great hip-hop groups of all time just didn't make it work for the long, long run, for the long haul. I got a lot of groups I can name that I'm huge fans of, but you saw things fall apart. And I get it, people grow apart and all that stuff. But man, um find what makes you happy and be happy doing it. You know, I can't worry about how much money you make in a year or what side of town you're living on. That's that's not doing anything for me. Yeah. Maybe I'm gonna be inspired by it, which is cool. Yeah, but the but but but the whole animosity and and be judgmental, that's that's what gets us, man. That's what gets us. And and I spent too many years being a part of that, that now I never hesitate to spread that message to young people because it only slows down progress, man. And it makes you fall short of those goals that I know you got set for yourself.

SPEAKER_03 33:43

Man, you we had a string of thought today that everybody discussed, and you just said it again. So I know this is real. This is something that my older brother done beat me up about because as I said, he's been telling me a lot about you. Um so trying to stay consistent, setting goals, and hitting marks. Can you can you give some advice to our audience about that? Because I know that's something that we all deal and struggle with on a daily basis. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

You know, um there's a quote, and it's and it's from the hometown, uh, Lou Holtz, South Carolina um um University of South Carolina, uh former coach, and he said, 10% of life is what happens to you, the other 90% is how you respond. And and if people were to move like that, man, that would solve so many of our problems, man. I mean, think about that, man. 10% is what happens to you, the other 90% is how you respond. Like, like, like, like what do you really have control of? You know, in relationships, you know, we we make that mistake. You know, we try to control another person. Man, you you only got control of yourself. And and and and even that takes like daily reminding to oneself that this is what it is. You know, I love that uh um man in the mirror concept, you know. Again, that goes back to the the the classroom and and and and um teachers, like educators, period. You know, look at the person in the mirror, man, and ask yourself every day, did I give it a hundred? And if I didn't, what could I have done to have given it one hundred? Like if we just stay in that lane, a lot of the just daily challenges, obstacles, we would surpass, man. And and and again, I know it's a short answer, but that's just the best way I can navigate, man. I mean without answering that's the best way I can navigate and ask that anybody else try and navigate.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

I know um a lot a lot of things uh related to that that could be negative. You think about fear, idea of failure, especially as a student or somebody young trying to grow up, you don't realize you have to fail. Yep. Um is there a time that you had to speak to students about the need to allow yourself to fail?

SPEAKER_00 36:11

You know, I can't like I'm sure I've I've I've done that. You know, I talk the whole concept of having to crawl before you walk.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

You know, it sort of spins into that um ecosystem, I guess, for lack of a better term. But um I don't know, man. I if I had to I spent a lot of time in Milwaukee some years ago working with a consortium of uh young black males from across the um the um I guess tri-region they call it. But here's the interesting thing about Milwaukee that I didn't know. For black men, healthcare was some of the worst in the country. Uh the the um school to prison pipeline was one of the worst in the country. And I've obviously along with that, rolled into that is the whole educational makeup. And when I would go up and speak with these um young men, they were pretty much uh ninth grade through rising um seniors. It it always came down to finding what your purpose is. And I I'm very intentional about the word purpose. A lot of us like to say that's what I'm passionate about. And there's a slight difference, actually a major difference. Whenever someone tells you this is what I'm passionate about, not a hundred percent of the time, but probably easily, 75-80% of the time, it's something that benefits them personally. But when you hear someone say this is my purpose, that's usually affecting a community of people.

SPEAKER_04 38:10

It's like an act of selflessness.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

Whether it's a small community or even a bigger, greater community, that passion and purpose, man. And I have some people that get upset when they hear me say that, and and I get it, you can you can easily switch out both of those words, but just think about it in your conversations moving forward, when you hear somebody say, Yo, I'm passionate about this. It's usually what's gonna make me better. And I mean, and not that there's anything wrong with that.

SPEAKER_03 38:37

Yeah, but the difference between Spider-Man and Iron Man.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

Stop it now. Now you're in my territory, buddy. You know? I just have to say that because you know, yeah, yeah. But yeah, with great power comes great responsibility. And and and and and I mean, um, that's actually one of my favorite lines. I like to tell educators, that's what you guys are, man. I mean, you guys are superheroes. Yeah, you really are superheroes, like, no doubt about it. So, so why take advantage of being held up in such high regard? And unfortunately, man, everything, you got bad apples. Okay, yeah, and there's no way around that. Yeah, and and and and I hate that hip-hop music gets such a bad shake. Yeah, but come on, man. We we know how many positive rappers, MCs we got out there, yeah. But unfortunately, like everything else, when the bad thing pops up, that's what gets front sp on front page, and that's just human nature, unfortunately. But we gotta call it out. We gotta call it out. And and um, if we don't, we have a generation of kids growing up thinking that's all they got access to. Yeah. When we know it so much.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

And do you feel it's that's a responsibility? That is it is a responsibility. All the generations we should be doing that for the you because I I can't expect a 16-year-old to understand the difference between positive culture and negative culture. I can't even expect that.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Yeah, I mean, I I came to a point as an educator where I expected kids to come needing the guidance. You know, I wasn't the educator like these kids should be ready to learn. Their parents, their parents ain't teaching them nothing. Okay. But we got them now. Yeah, and and and as a principal, I said that all too often because that's what teachers would say. Teach high school teachers in a meeting, and I've done high school, they say, Oh, the middle school teachers didn't get them ready. Middle school teachers saying, oh, the elementary teachers didn't get them ready. Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure I've never taught elementary. I did my student teaching elementary in Columbia, South Carolina. Oh, wow. But I'm sure they're saying, oh, the parents didn't get them ready. Yeah. And you know what? All that out the window, we got them now. What are we gonna do?

SPEAKER_01 40:52

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

Because my thing is, if a kid comes to you here and by the end of the school year you got them here, that's success.

SPEAKER_04 40:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

So let's just quit all the um time wasting pointing fingers and go to work.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

We got you do believe in incremental improvement. Oh, for sure. For sure. I think that's one of the things that if it can be explained to folks, it helps them to get over that fear. No doubt. Of trying. No doubt. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

Man, think about it, man. When you work out, yeah, you don't work out the first time, and I don't care if you go in the gym for 24 hours, you ain't coming out with a six-pack if you went in with a pop belly. No, that's true. You know, that's true. Now, I don't know if that'll zip or whatever they got popping off me. That's crazy work. But the reality is, you want a healthy six-pack, you're gonna go and bust your behind. Yeah, and you're gonna give them some months, yeah. If not a year.

SPEAKER_03 41:42

Yeah, that's the place to be with it. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

But hey, man, I'm I mean, it's a win. It's a win. I I you know, I I love the process, dude. I love the process. Um, as I as I look back, the only thing I tell younger folks now, and again, whether they see it or not, who knows? Um, I I guess some take it with a grain of salt. I'm sure I did. I can't remember anybody being that specific with me about this. But I tell them, like, don't live beyond your means, and that's what's going to free you up to do what it is you love doing. Like, that's that's it's as simple as that. Yeah, it's as simple as that. But we get caught up. We get caught up, and it's the next big house, the next big car, and yeah, you're making more money, but you're running in place, man. Yeah, you're running good, but you're running in place. Yeah, and and and and I mean, again, if you're okay with that, but you can't be okay with it when you're saying, I'm not happy about going to work on Monday morning.

SPEAKER_02 42:48

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

Hey, man.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Hey, yeah, you know, we've all been there.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

We've all been there. I was having um dinner with my boy uh B-Rock and and his brother Chris Rock. Uh, this was years ago, and we're at the dinner table, and we call um Chris Chrissy. And Chrissy um looks at us and he's like, I don't envy you guys, man. Y'all gotta go to work. I said, Man, you work too. He said, Nah, kid, I don't work. He said, Matter of fact, what I do for a living, when I go to bed at night, I'm mad I gotta go to sleep because I want to keep doing what I do. Damn. And I, like, honestly, that just stayed with me forever. Because I was like, what kind of life is that that you are making a living doing something you don't want to even stop to sleep? Because it's that good. Been chasing it ever since, man.

SPEAKER_04 43:41

So with that said, work life balance. What does that look like for you on day-to-day?

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Um, work life balance. It's uh it's scary, to be honest, because um, you know, you you you don't want to wake up unemployed one day unless you've just done what I've just said and really maximize it where it doesn't matter. So there's always that in the background, and and um it's one of the reasons why when I see people go out and become entrepreneurs, like I know what type of planning that takes, but to pull it off, I'm all hats off for that, man, because it's it's it's it's so much power in that. Yeah, and for the majority of us, we're working for the man.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Yeah, it's a it's a it's a guarantee. Every two weeks, whatever, every week paycheck.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

And there's some comfort in that.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

But you also gotta know they can turn the lights out at any given moment. Yeah. And um, and and are you ready to pivot? You know, especially now being at an age where family is like number one, it's no longer you're running solo, you're taking care of somebody, whether it's elderly parents, you know, um, spouse, kids, uh uh, grandkids. So um the balance is scary, but you do what you gotta do, man. You know, you do what you gotta do. I mean, um, there's no magic um um button at this point. I look back at my own journey and I realize things I could have done to be in a much better situation. But at this point, all I can do is sort of pick up, almost like I said, with teachers and kids. Hey, we got them here. I get it. They should have been here. Yeah. But we got them here. So let's go. I gotta apply that to how I'm living day to day, man. Yeah. Gotta take my own advice. It's what it is. It's what it is. Man.

SPEAKER_03 46:01

Excellent, excellent conversation. I wish we'd go a little longer. Hey, man. Hey, I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 46:08

I'm good. Hey, man, I gotta ask you another question. I'm gonna ask one more question. I'm gonna ask, I gotta ask some more questions.

SPEAKER_03 46:15

Tomorrow in the back. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, producing back there. She's looking at us like, yo, okay. Um laughing too much. Keep them on point. She's buggy. Keep us on point. Keep us on point. Uh I I will say this I'm happy that you were just talking about like finding something that you do that you love that actually pays for your life. Yep. Um, I know my brother and I were having this conversation this week. Yep. Um, we do these arbitrary conversations where we discuss off-topic things, cultural, culturally relevant things and whatnot. Yep. And there's a line that Biggie says when your daughter's up there crying, ain't no time. You gotta do what you gotta do. So however you gotta get to that bag to make those ends meet, people will do. And I understand that that's that has to happen.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:01

However, is there anything like, and this is this is why I get to get to get to places with folks. Like, there has to be a limit to what you are able to commit yourself to do. Like, you have to have some kind of moralistic line. This is what we're having this conversation. Yeah, there has to be a moral line that you will not cross. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, the effect on culture and society is tremendous when it comes to certain actions. Meaning people will re repeat whatever they see is effective, whether it be bad or good. It doesn't matter. And I think for a lot of folks out of hip hop culture, and and the reason why I say hip hop culture is race, career don't matter. It affects us all. The way in which we have been fed ways to exist and exceed expectation, we don't get a lot of good options.

SPEAKER_04 48:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 48:03

And should, and this is just a moral question for you. Yep. Should you feel bad if you're doing well, if it hurts people?

SPEAKER_00 48:13

In other words, people see you doing well and they're upset about it?

SPEAKER_03 48:17

No, you're doing well. Oh, making money. I got you. I got you. But what you're doing has a negative effect on your on your culture that you exist in. The reason why I'm saying this, I'm gonna tie it to you. Yep. Some of this content that we because we produce content. Yep. Some of the content that we have been seeing that we have seen produced recently with folks around certain individuals who are now in the eyes of the law. Yep. A lot of these folks, you have now started to see cease and desist orders come out because it literally went too far. Yeah. Our thing was it never needed to go that far in the first place. Yeah. So the companies made money.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

People got paid. Yeah. Babies are fed. Yeah. Is it cool?

SPEAKER_00 48:59

You know, my personal answer, I I I I hesitate on speaking for any group of people on that one. Yeah. My personal answer is, nah, it's not cool. Like, you know, um, man, it's it's a simple rule in life. And especially as you get older. They tell you you should leave this world having it been made a little bit better than how you came into it. Like, and and and and if you're gonna live by that, which is what I'm trying to live up to at this point in my life, then there's no room for that. There there really isn't. I mean, if I'm gonna do something in the most simple terms, even though you just gave a complex breakdown of that, but if you were to just script it down, that's your neighborhood drug dealer. I'm selling drugs to the community.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

Um, but I'm buying everybody turkeys on Thanksgiving. You know, they're and passing them out. Nah, nah, like, like I'm I mean, again, everybody has a different journey, man. And and your journey determines your resilience.

SPEAKER_03 50:09

Oh, that's a good way to put it.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

Nah, it it it really does. Oh, wow. Your journey determines that. And in other words, at some point, somebody came to you and told you, yo, man, I know you're doing this, but if you do this, you can make this. Yeah. What's your resilience at that point? Yeah, like like we we like to say, you know, it's about being smart, not smart. I mean, come on, we got some extremely smart drug dealers. Yeah, you know, yeah. But it's it's it's being in that moment and being able to say, you know what, I get it. Yeah, I could I could get the jewels and whatever, and the girls or whatever. But that's that's in the process, I'm I'm literally taking somebody's son, daughter, whatever, out of here.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:51

Nah, it's not, I'm not willing to put that on the line. You know, what's your resilience, man? And and and and again, that's gonna be upbringing. I mean, for some dudes, I had a great upbringing. I don't, I don't, my mom and dad did fantastic. I wish they would have given me some more jewels around finances. Oh, yeah, that's it. Yeah, I didn't hear that, I didn't hear the word stock market in my house growing up. Yeah, like I'm you know, a checking and a savings. That's all I heard. Yeah, you know, and then I had kids in the neighborhood. It wasn't even no checking and savings. Put your money under the mattress. Oh, yeah. You know, like like that's what it was. So, yeah, but other than that, man, a great upbringing. And I mean, for me, I used to tell my kids when I was a teacher, hey man, you know, a good way to make sure every step is gonna be a solid one. They're like, what, Mr. Jenkins? I said, whatever you do during the school day, in class, lunchtime, pretend there's a floating camera and your grandma's watching it. If you can't do in front of that camera what it is you're being asked to do without worrying about your grandma being hurt, you probably shouldn't be doing it. Okay. Plain and simple, man. Yeah, yeah. Plain and simple. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

True.

SPEAKER_03 52:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

And even as an adult now, my grandma. My grandma's my grandma's 92. She turned 92 on last week.

SPEAKER_03 52:16

Less than that.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

And I still appreciate it. I'm still like, shit, how my grandma gonna feel about this? Still float screen, right? Yeah, man. But but but nah, back to it. That's that's everybody's built different for that. Yeah. But but no, it's not right, man. It's it's it's not right. And um, and um, again, the world would be such a better place if we kind of played that game a little different. But hey, man, the one thing I will say, we keep all this talk going about like it used to be in blah zé blah. It's human nature. And the elements we're talking about now, they've been with us since biblical times, even before that. Yeah. And I promise you, when we all hit the grave, our kids' kids hit the grave, they're still gonna be dealing with these elements. You know, the reality is there was a test that was done, brown eye, blue eye, education, you might know of it, but this teacher, white teacher, yeah. Oh, yeah, took her students and separated them based on eye color. And guess what? Racism, prejudices, and all that still came out with a class of all white kids based on eye color. Yeah, so we're always gonna find a way. We're gonna find a way, man. So um it's it's it's human nature, um, but it makes for the great story, and it also makes for the great ride. I like to call it the seesaw, man. I'm I mean, there's gonna be sometimes where it's like this, sometimes where it's like that, and then it's gonna be the yin and yang. Yeah, the perfect balance. And that's what we're striving for. We're striving to get it where it's just sitting just like this.

SPEAKER_04 53:53

Yeah. Yes, but of course, hard to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:57

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Great answer, man. I ain't got nothing else to ask, man.

SPEAKER_04 54:01

I guess we can go ahead and wrap it up.

SPEAKER_03 54:02

Yeah, we will wrap it up. Well, as always, this is DJ and what? Skip.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

Tamar.

unknown 54:10

Mike.

SPEAKER_03 54:10

And our spectacular. Yes. Man, stupendous game.

SPEAKER_04 54:16

If people want to learn more, check out your music.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

Yeah, I think I think um um life through music.com uh for um just booking those speaking engagements and so forth and workshops. Uh the book is out on Amazon. Uh, To the Beatle Leadership, a story of high and low notes. Some of the stories you heard today, you can find um in that book. And then uh social media is just Dr. Mervin Jenkins first last name, D-R, M-E-R-V-I-N-J-N-K-I-N-S. You can find me there on Instagram, I think TikTok, whatever the case. Yeah, TikTok. I got a TikTok.

SPEAKER_03 54:55

Oh, just step him up. Yes. Hey, hey, all right, all right, all right. Well, I'm gonna sign off for the Hilltop Glove podcast. As I always like to tell our audience, man, tell somebody next to them that you love them, that you appreciate them, that you cherish them. Until the next time. Peace.