SPEAKER_02 1:46

Welcome to another episode of the Hilltop Glove Podcast. Today we are thrilled to have the opportunity to speak with the inspiring Robert Methson. Robert is a community-engaged artist hailing from Newberry, South Carolina, whose work is dedicated to enhancing the health and well-being of individuals through the transformative power of the arts. In 2019, Robert founded Newberry Made, a local art registry that has flourished, now representing over 200 talented artists and makers across Newberry County. His passion for community and creativity continues to drive his endeavors, making a significant impact on the local art scene. Robert's latest venture is in the innovative non-fungible Token Museum. This exciting initiative aims to create both physical and virtual spaces for contemporary digital art education, collaboration, and exhibition. The goal is to empower the community to benefit from the rapidly evolving digital economies, showcasing how traditional art can intersect with cutting-edge technology. We are eager to dive deeper into Robert's journey, his innovative projects, and how he is reshaping the landscape of art and technology. Brother Man, how are you doing today? I'm great, thank you so much. Such an honor to be here. Oh man, you make it feel good.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

You should feel good. This is an amazing project.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Thank you, thank you. Um, and and I'll say with our project course, just to hit hit off this from the start, we are created in order to try to find a way for us millennials without proper guides and roadmaps to try to see what it is that we need to do in order to further ourselves career-wise, goal-wise, and just in living life. You know, um, we are in that weird spot between the analog and the digital, and as things have changed and transformed, we've been there to get the guinea pig testing of it. And we're the first group to see what it's like, so it's gonna be cool talking about what we're gonna um discuss today. Uh, but we'd like to start off first with who you are, how do you get here, and do you have any siblings?

SPEAKER_03 3:49

Okay, yeah, I'll start off. I grew up in Salt Lake City, Utah. I grew up in Mormon culture. Um, I think a lot of what kind of drives my my service uh it comes from that upbringing. Um siblings, I have an older sister on the youngest, and two older brothers.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

Um, kind of scattered around now. Uh when I was 35, I moved to San Diego and I started painting year-round. That's really when I got full into my uh just pursuing art as a full-time career. But I wound up my path to South Carolina was a little strange.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

So how'd you get here? Usually people's paths are strange.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

That's true. Um, yeah, I was looking for my dream was to have a studio and gallery space. Okay. And I wanted it to be in a place where I felt like I could have an impact. Um, but I'd actually heard of Asheville, North Carolina. Oh, yeah, that's the place. So I came, I flew into Atlanta and I drove all around uh eastern Tennessee, western North Carolina, um looking for the right spot, and I just happened to find this small town of Newberry. Uh South Carolina wasn't really on the map for me. Oh, but when I drove through that small town, I I realized that you know there's a unique culture to the South that w was something completely foreign to me coming from out west. And everyone I met was very open and welcoming. And the building that I found felt right, and our town had a s has a small art center that was that's that's supported by the city, so I knew that there was something there. We have the opera house, which brings in a lot of amazing talent. Exactly. And I thought, okay, visual arts, this could be something here. Um and that's what led to Newberry Maid, which was when I first moved to town, I was meeting people, but I nobody quite knew who all the artists was. There was the art center, which did a lot of teaching, and there are a group of artists there, but I knew there must be more. And so as I'd meet people, they would talk to me about the type of things that they enjoy doing. And they'd be like, Oh, you're an artist. You know, they talk to me about being a painter, and and they're like, Oh, and I said, What about you? What are you are you an artist? And they're like, No, no, but the later in the conversation they'd be like, Oh, I'm I quilt, or um, I'm I like photography. Or and I'm like, okay, so this isn't Yeah, you're it's yeah, they're they're here. They're here. And so I I put up a Google form, you know, and said, let's all have an exhibition, let's all bring a piece and meet each other.

SPEAKER_04 6:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

Well, that form started collecting the data from these people, and that became what I understand now to be an artist registry. Right? So it's very organic in that way, and then we held an exhibition, and now we've had an exhibition every year at our busiest event, which is Oktoberfest. 15,000, 20,000 people come in and we hang all the local art. Yeah. And and we do all kinds of other gatherings, like we'll do a Christmas social where we trade handmade objects and gifts, and but you know, just having a space, a uh something safe, a place where people feel like they're amongst like-minded people. Um and just knowing who they are. And and you all know you're building community through this. You know how powerful that can be. Um and humbling too, um, because that that group has just been so welcoming and inspiring. So all the work that I do is inspired by that community.

SPEAKER_04 7:03

Nice. Man, good.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Wait, I'm just gonna touch on this point because you said this so matter-factly. So you all have a so from this registry that you created that you didn't know was a registry, you now have an event that brings in 15 to 20,000 people to come to Newberry for exchange and art, art culture, and et cetera.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

Well, I think I think we actually we we we get to ride on that, right? Because Oktoberfest is a larger cultural celebration. And so we get through the gallery, we get we we're able to raise awareness of our work by taking advantage of those smart opportunities, right? Smart, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Yeah. And that's what I want to hear, um, to hear that explanation, because I know a lot of folks who are listening, like, wait, wait, wait, so how did this happen? What's going on? And that's important to know that you can build out other cultural activities and events to help bring in um eyes to the arts.

SPEAKER_03 7:52

And that's you what you're pointing out to me, which is also something I learned here working with the arts commission, is you know, a community has every asset it already needs. Yeah. Yeah. Um what's there's a there's a saying everything we uh it's a church saying everything we have, everything we needed we already have in these pews. Right? So like even the symbol that you see here, like we wanted to create a symbol for the group and ideas, people drawing up different, you know, logos and icons and that type of thing. But then it turns out that this symbol is actually carved into the building that was so the old Newberry Hotel up in the cornice, and um nobody knows why or when it was put there, right? But it's like it already is there. Like we don't need to design anything, like it's it's right there. Yeah, we've adopted it, and now like I put it on all of my work so that if it goes out in the world, it can be comes all the way back to the can figure out where that symbol came from.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

That's dope. That's super dope.

SPEAKER_03 8:45

So I I think it could be replicated anywhere, you know. Um, but it's really just what assets do we have in the community? How can we utilize those assets and and to your advantage and then raise the awareness of that culture locally?

SPEAKER_04 8:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:58

That's another mistake. I I see a lot of people trying, you know, they'll come from a larger area, say come from Charleston, and they see all the way that the galleries operate and the type of art that's being done there, and they want to replicate that in a new in a new place. Well Charleston is not Newberry. Exactly. Newberry is a totally different culture, right? Columbia is a totally different culture, and so look at where you're at and how do you how do you elevate that because that's the uniqueness and that's what's gonna last. That's that's the culture.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah, I mean I always noticed that a lot of people it it sometimes happens where people from other cities or towns end up coming to um a new place and helps develop that city or that town because um you know they're they're not used to it. It's new to them, they see the potential in the environment. Um, whereas the other people that have grown up there don't necessarily see any growth in it because they're just so used to what it is, and they kind of just let it be what it is instead of um helping it grow. So I always think that it's neat to see people come from other places who have experienced different things to bring that stuff to different towns, and I think that's so dope that you brought that out there because they didn't even know that when you were talking about arts, you were talking about arts, not that that's everything. Like that's not just being a painter, it's quilting, it's all these other things. So that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03 10:26

Yeah, I do think people generally take it for granted, um, the culture that you're raised in, and and it's the same thing for artists, you know. Uh I think it's a pretty common path that you know your family and everything. Yeah, they know you as the creative one. Oh, yeah, you like your uh you like to play music, you like to do this, but but that's just who you are. That's they've always known you as that way. But when you are sufficiently far enough removed and you come into a new culture and you're expressing yourself that way, that's totally different than something new. Right? Like when I travel and I meet other artists and the things they're doing, I'm just blown away by them. But I'm sure their family and friends are things, oh that's just you know, it's normal. Mundane, everyday. It's like no, it's not normal. Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

When I'm saying here is not normal. Exactly. They are not normal. Yeah. Um, and I I guess this leads it to this question that I know we always like to ask people about early beginnings of influence, but apart from Utah, like what inspired or drew you to want to be an artist? Because I mean, I mean, you know, it's something that people like to do, but at the same time, what drew you to your medium and wanting to express yourself in that way?

SPEAKER_03 11:28

Yeah, interestingly enough, the first memory I even have was in preschool writing my first letters and like being very intentional because like I was about to go to school. I was in school, right? That's right. And I remember being very precise and like being interested in that. And then I remember listening to music. Um, Starship plays a song called We Built This City on Rock and Roll. Yeah, that's the jam. And I would I would build I would draw all these little cities with like music notes and that kind of stuff, you know. As a matter of fact, they were just in Florence uh last weekend, so I got to go see them.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

You did get the stuff.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

Yeah, it was just I felt like I was five years old again. But yeah, like just there's something about expressing visually. Um, and now I've I've grown into a real appreciation for po for poetry as well. Yeah. Using words as symbols, um, trying to get to the root of yeah, what is it that draws anyone to any particular medium. Exactly. Um but any medium can be used for art, like and we'll get into that when we talk about the technology and the blockchain stuff.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Exactly. I think that catches um it it catches folks' imagination too when you talk about the different mediums and different ways in which you can um express yourself through art. And I and I like just going back to what we were saying earlier, the folks not realizing that they're expressing themselves through art and being good at it and not knowing it's something that can be capitalized and used to push forward culture, moral, and even economic change in their environment and how powerful it is. Uh I know my brother and I were having conversations this week, just what was going on politically and stuff, but we were just talking about the importance of things like soft power and the fact that art and culture in itself is a powerful tool. Um, it's one of the most influential tools used throughout the world to find ways to solve and get to the bottom of a problem without warfare. And so, in my opinion, I that's why we love art and culture so much, because we realize, hey, you know what? We can solve something and fix something without us having to hurt anybody. So I guess that gets us to um just this question about art being in all of us and the fact that it's a means by which we can heal ourselves, um, even through things like art therapy. So if you could just speak on how has art um the art in you developed through over the years, and do you have a preferred medium that you like to work in?

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Yeah, yeah. I I my first and primary medium is painting. There's just something about flow of paint, the history of it, you know, the artist tradition. Um I have mentors, which I recommend any artist who's wants to get serious about anything, is to find somebody who's lived it, who's been through it.

SPEAKER_04 14:04

Very true.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

Um so I have a couple of mentors, one of which is Philip Mullen, he's one of the best painters of South Carolina. Um, and it's not about learning how they paint specifically, it's about understanding what they've been through and then how you can utilize that and how that relates to you with your journey going forward, because I've made giant leaps in just my worldview and my outlook. Um but painting is is primarily a and I would say from the painting perspective, uh at first I you know I wanted to just create beautiful imagery, right? I won't I was painting that nature and inspired by nature and wanted to paint those things, right? And it literally it's about learning the skill, the ability, how do you manipulate pain. But the further I've gotten into all the painting, it's really it's a conversation with yourself. And that's what that's what you're doing. You're solving a puzzle that's laid before you, and and at some point you're saying you you get to where you what do I want this to say, not only like the conversation I'm having with the piece and myself, which provides a lot of personal growth, but then when someone views this, right? And you cannot control what someone might say or think. That's what I like about it, like a piece, for example, that I brought in, you know, like that's going to impact people all kinds of different ways, depending on where they're coming from. And so it just it's just this constant learning about yourself, about others. Um it's like a self-awareness, you know, trying to and this growth through the through the expression. Absolutely. Yeah. Um and it's it's that it's it's similar to say, you know, like mm meditating, and like I'll pay attention. I have a whole series of works that I call my mark making, and uh all it is is abstract painting and marks my natural way of just making a mark, and and I'll I'll write down the thoughts that come into my mind on the back and like trying to control those thoughts. Like I don't know if anyone else has this problem, but there's a lot of stuff just bottled me. How do you filter that? How do you filter that? Do you are you paying attention to it? And so that's like kind of a meditative process.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

So you're you're cataloging this as you're doing the art.

SPEAKER_03 16:14

Yeah. And not only that, then you'll listen to you will listen to the people who are teaching you like their thoughts come into your mind, even about the process, like, oh, is there enough contrast or balance to this and all of that? And you really have to start being like, okay, these are all subconscious wiring in my brain, and I'm actually at a point where I'm trying to unlearn that so I control that a little bit more and let try to get back to a more of a state of wonder, like before you learn all of that. Um I think that's where a lot of innovation comes from.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Do you ever get stuck in the process due to being jaded from repeating it over and over and over again?

SPEAKER_03 16:48

Yeah, yeah, I've never I don't have, I wouldn't say any particular style. I've kind of resisted that um because maybe I'm just not there as a as an artist yet, you know, and a lot of a lot of the great masters eventually get to the point where they're they're producing work in a very similar style, like Lango or Clifford Steele or some of these artists. Um but I think that probably comes at a point in which they've developed a process that's just so healthy and so well good for their soul that they're tapped in. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

They came after development.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

Yes. And so I'm I'm trying to get there. Um hopefully one day I'll I'll get there.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

It's a process, you know. I'm sure. I'm terrible at art, but you know. I'm terrible at art.

SPEAKER_03 17:30

You might be surprised. You might be surprised.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

You know, every uh I know that it's subjective, right? So it may be great to someone else, but I mean, you know, to me.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

That's the the that that never goes away. Every artist always has imposter syndrome. Yeah. Am I really that good? Yeah. You know, I recently went to uh Austria and I saw some uh Gustav Klimp and Igon Schele, which are uh just stun you when you see work. But when I'm sitting there before them, I can look at them now and be like, okay, I can see how this was created. You know, um I may not have the skill level yet or the mastery of color, but um I I realized they were just people.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Yeah, and they're just um that perfected a way of doing something, just like if you watch somebody who's a master um, say at martial arts or is a master at pool billiards, you're like, first of all, I don't know how you made the ball jump, spin, and hit all the rest of the balls. That's amazing. Then you have to realize, oh, 10,000 hours, 20,000 hours. You're like, all right, I got you. You should be good at this by now.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

And you can do it, and if it if it is, if it's feeding your soul, like and you just keep doing it, then you will get there. Yeah, I'm totally convinced of that.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Amazing, amazing. I I know this is uh something that we this is gonna be the crux of the conversation, and I know I want to discuss this because I'm very interested in this, and I know during the pandemic we had time to sit down and and mill our thoughts a little bit more. I really got into uh NFTs, art, technology, find how to find value in things that are completely subjective, right? And I know with you being in the world of art and looking at what's going forward, we have to um discuss this specifically the merging of the two worlds and how have how has uh NFT has that changed your outlook um within the art world and where do you see it going?

SPEAKER_03 19:30

Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up because earlier you touched on it as being a millennial, so I'm a little bit older than you, but you know, we remember growing up without internet. Yeah, without sure. Something's surveilling us, yes, go to a room. And you could literally do you felt it, privacy, all this kind of stuff. And so internet comes all turn. Right. Exactly. Internet comes and now we've got access to all this information. Like right now, as an artist, I feel so fortunate to live through this period because this is the most disruptive period any artist has ever lived through. I agree. Um and we haven't even talked about the AI component.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Oh goodness.

SPEAKER_03 20:06

But we're we're literally trying to understand what it means to be a human as we're ushering in almost a new species. Yes, right. And this is we get to document that and express that.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

That before Terminator takes over.

SPEAKER_03 20:22

Incredible.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Before Terminator takes over. Yeah, it's the world before Skynet. Yes, this is us, right?

SPEAKER_03 20:28

Yeah. And so we're we're on that curve, and and I see a a lot of creatives that are having a really difficult time with that disruption. They're rejecting it, you know. And I understand that because that's what I felt when I especially when the AI started to roll out. But now I'm realizing that like we've never had access to so many tools. And like, like I right now, I just did a a set of visualizations for a concert that's tonight, and I was able to produce all these visual visualizations in a couple of hours, right? That would have taken me months.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

And you used AI.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

Yeah.

unknown 20:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

Gosh. And we not only are there's there's Chat GPT for text, yeah, textual-based stuff, you got Mid Journey and Dolly for visual, and now you've got Suno for Music AI. Oh my Lord, Jesus. That way, poetry can create a swing. Wait one second, airborne? You heard it, right? All right, okay, okay. So that that's wild, and now there's uh handful of video AIs.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Yeah, those are very interesting. Like where they're even called um causing film production companies to not invest in on-site materials. That is wild. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:35

Right. So the the fascinating thing about all that though is w earlier before the before we started recording, we were talking about all the stories that have not been documented or told. And now you've got this ability to, for example, this this painting that I was working on. This is the story of enslaved people um were required to wear badges. I recently went to the new African-American History Museum in Charleston, which I recommend everyone go to that. But this idea that that's what remains of that person, right? You see these badges, but like what were their stories, right? So it's digging into slave narratives and and the actual stories, and um none of that's been really illustrated. No. Um I should say none of it. There are a large number of artists, I'm sure, that are focused on that kind of thing, but uh the vast amount of stories that could we could still tell.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

Yeah, because you you you've had certain projects where uh of course they did um during uh the 1930s, 1940s, um, with the projects to record the histories of those folks who were enslaved and stuff. We had those sorts of projects, but what you're saying is like just taking them and making sure that we're just focusing on all of that.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

Yeah, I clarify like when I say not doc not documented, like I'm talking visually through the visual arts. Um and there there's obviously more and more of that, but it requires that awareness. And so like that institution even being open there in Charleston, providing all that information, all the access to the research. Now the artists have this opportunity to go. And so it inspires me. I go there, I see that, and I do this sketch of a man wearing one of the badges. And the intent is you know, that could be done for essentially any any person that I can find, and like give them s some representation. There's probably no visual representation of them, right? Oh but something and their story can go with it, right? Just because it's raised awareness, it's more impactful. You can, you know, human. This is real people, you know. Um but uh back to the talking about let's let's take that for example, uh a slave narrative and and a painting about it. Taking that and you Want to you want to pr let's say we want to preserve this for a long period of time. Like how would you go about that? Like if you wanted to take this painting and a and a narrative and make sure it's available to everyone.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

For everybody, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

Yeah. Um the the technology of the blockchain to be able to create an NFT, right? You're able to register that onto the blockchain, and the blockchain cannot be edited, it's immutable, it's there forever. Security. Where most artists, even if if they're documenting at all, taking pictures and documenting all that stuff, they're putting it up on a website, up on a cloud or something.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Once you stop, I was gonna say on the internet. Put it on the internet.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

Right. Yeah. But the problem with the internet is you know you're paying a subscription and that's what's keeping it there. But once you die, your passwords are no longer around, all your stuff's gone, your website falls because you're not paying the hosting and all that stuff. But that's not the case with the blockchain. You pay a small fee up front and it's on the blockchain forever. Forever.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

And no one can ever take get rid of it, take it off. That's right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

And it leads into all kinds of things with like misinformation and all of that, because first of all, you've got to put a little skin in the game, you've got to put a little bit of money up to put it in there. So you can't just be out. You're not gonna have all these bots just spreading misinformation or creating fake stuff because it costs money.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Of course.

SPEAKER_03 24:55

So there's that, and then what but once it's on that that blockchain, um, it can always be found and referenced and the original source of that information. So even talking on Tamper, too.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

Art's one thing, but like I think all any information that anybody deems worthy enough to spend a little money on to document, um, will will eventually be on the blockchain. Like it will all like all newspapers, like no more microfilms.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

I so agree on that.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

Podcast, any all this information. It's all gonna go up on the blockchain and because it creates this legacy. Um and if we take it back to art now, um, what what does that mean specifically for art and commerce of art? Is there's something called provenance in the art world. You've all probably heard of it. Like if somebody comes and says that you know, Andy Warhol made this and tries to sell it to you, and you're like, okay, how do I know Andy Warhol really?

SPEAKER_02 25:45

I need to confirm it, right? Verify.

SPEAKER_03 25:47

So if they got documentation that goes all the way back to when it was purchased, right? That's the kind of stuff you're gonna see at Christie's and Sotheby's, they're gonna require that before they even try to sell something for you. It's gotta have pronouns to it. And that's what the blockchain provides. Like even if I take a picture of that, put it on the blockchain, you know, write down the the hash for that piece, and that follows the piece, that's that's like a real simple way. It's like a certificate of authenticity. Um and then that digital, like if I sell that, I can sell the NFT with it, transfer the NFT with it, and now that shows who the new owner record is. Right. So now it's got this constant.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

And without having to go through the normal middleman or the yeah, the powers that be, like he said, he didn't Christine and Sotheby's. If you know about big auction houses, the finances that most people would have to have in order to have access to that, yeah, we ain't got. Especially artists, even some artists don't have that financial.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

That's another huge benefit of the blockchain art and the NFTs, is you're talking it's a worldwide uh I mean, totally international community. There's all kinds of blockchains that communities are participating in, and so you're trading across those, and in the case that isn't really the case with physicals because you actually have to mail it to them, but there's so much art now that's just sold digitally. Yeah. And so that digital file just instantly transfers into their wallet, you know, wherever they're at in the world. And all it's really doing is it's just in a database, what we call a blockchain, and it's just changing the ownership of that, but now they're the owner, and the economics of it get really interesting because when I originally sell the piece to that collector, let's say he's in China, and he pays me $100 for it, right? Well, I get a royalty, I can get a royalty for that.

SPEAKER_04 27:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 27:23

So when he sells it, I get a royal. And it doesn't say that's why I liked them. That's why I like them. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Yes, and now see I've never really understood NFTs like that. So I mean That's the importance of it.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

Ah, okay. So yeah, you'd have a you'd have a digital wallet or your account, essentially, and you've sold this piece and it sells ten more times. Well, hopefully it's going up in value too. As they say, your royalty is going up in value. Right. And if if you want to get into like the details of how copyrights work, you know, copyrights for artists and content creators, they last for what I think it's 85 years. Don't quote me on that. Um but they do expire. Yeah, they expire. And then they can be released back into the cloud. Well, your blockchain wallet and royalties never expire. Okay, okay. So you hand your wallet down to your children and their children and their children, and they're making money automatically all the time.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

That without having to go to the manager revolution in how art commerce works. That's so and I'm not gonna lie to you, that almost in itself is the revolution. Yeah. Because I I know I talking to artists about this, um, even like musicians and like the whole fight over royalty saying, well, I gotta sell my catalog right now so I can make some money because I need to make my money before my catalog can't be sold. Well, if you owned your information and your intellectual property in perpetuity, it wouldn't matter.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

Right?

SPEAKER_02 28:42

It wouldn't matter because like he's like he was saying, this is the thing that caught me on with it, and I was like, yo, I like it. Every time it moves, you don't have to, you don't need a um an accountant or somebody to track it or make sure that you're getting your five or ten percent. You're automatically getting it, it's gonna come to you every time. And so I saw some people, and you tell me if you've seen these, I thought this was interesting. So people are selling digital, the digital art and NFTs, and they'll sell it to you in a physical way where you get the NFT and et cetera, but they send you a digital preserve, you have to charge it, but it will show you a representation of your art, the NFT, and the blockchain associated with it, and you can hold them so you can actually show it to people like a little hologram. Oh, interesting what the art is. And I thought that was so dope. Yeah, because then you can wear it, you can put it where you want it, but at the same time, anytime you turn it on, you can be like, Yep, see, that's what I own. It's out there in the world, but this is my NFT, this is what I own. So if you're a collector of those things, how people would hold on to the paintings, say you don't want to show the painting, say you want to keep it secure where it's at, right? You can literally have that painting exist in this holographic interface.

SPEAKER_03 29:45

Yeah, I think we're we'll see a lot of new innovative products like Samsung makes a really nice painting. It's a TV that's meant to display digital art like paintings. Um you've got like so for example, like the collection that my organization has is like over 1,300 digital art pieces, right? But uh like all I need is screens to display. I don't have warehouses full, I don't have to worry about them getting damaged, so none of that stuff. Yeah, that's tight. So and and you know, look actually South Carolina has one of the most successful digital artists in the world. Say that again.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Yeah, blow your mind.

SPEAKER_03 30:20

Why yeah. So Mike Winkleman in Charleston, he's he goes by the name of Beeple, and we're talking about Christie's earlier. So he prior to NFT craze, what he would do is he'd create a digital art piece every day, and he was very involved in the digital art community, and I hope he doesn't mind me speaking for him. But but as the NFTs came on and this functionality came along, he started to mint his work on the NFT and or on on the digital blockchains. And one of the pieces that he created was he took like over 3,000 pieces and he made a giant digital collage. Oh yeah, I remember that. And it went up for auction at Christie's and sold for 69 million. Yeah. The NFT. I remember that. Digital, digital NFT. Oh my god. You can see it at his studio.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

So what?

SPEAKER_03 31:01

You can see it at his studio. It's printed out. It's a giant mural of all these, and it is every single day of his work. And so he continues to do that. He's over 6,000 now, but he he does have events down there all the time. And so he's such a fascinating person because he bought a giant like distribution warehouse and it's a museum basically to his own work. Yeah, and then he has a room that's like something you'd see in a visa or like a big nightclub kind of thing. It's just giant LED screens, and he involves the community. You can like I've sent pieces in and have them exhibited there. Um and so he is like essentially a war hall of our time. He's just creating massive amounts of work and he's doing it all digitally, and you know, he's like museums don't get it, so I'm gonna build my own.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

Oh wow, because they haven't yet updated the way in which they're doing their transactions and business. So he just said, I'll go ahead and build it.

SPEAKER_03 31:50

Yeah, I'll build it myself. Yeah, and now you do see that a lot of the larger museums are building NFT collections. Oh, yeah, they're slowly pulling.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Look, I slowly like when I go check out certain museums, and I'm I do have my membership to go to the museum of art. It's funny because like you get older, you start actually buying things, like memberships. And so I'll actually go and I've been watching, I said, Oh, this there's nothing but screens in this room. And it catches me off guard, and I'm like, wow, okay, so that's interesting. And even now they'll have installations of film, um documentaries in the art museum.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

When I was growing up, that wasn't something you saw in an art museum.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

You actually saw the art in the museum. Just the art.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

With a little clip, with a little card below it, tell you what it was.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Tell you what it was when it was spouse.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

We were implying too, jazz, like the different mediums and like uh how people perceive the arts. It just wasn't perceived, it like digital art wasn't taken seriously. It's like digital photography wasn't taken very seriously. And AI art right now is not taken seriously, but um in 20 years, when literally that's the primary medium everyone starts with, like it's going to be very, very well.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

I gotta ask you this about AI art, man. I gotta have to ask you this. Why is it so creepy?

SPEAKER_03 33:04

Well, um I think that's just like the early days. So like I remember when Mid Journey came out and like the hands would be all weird and like the faces are all distorted. Um, but that's a funny thing, is you can tell what through the provenance like what is early NF or AI art, I should say. And now though it's it's in version six and it's pretty compelling. Like you still get a little bit of that, but not nearly as much as you did before.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Yeah, I saw like some like when the beginning when they first started coming out, and like like you said, it does look a little creepy, but I was like, Like the art's drinking beer to its ears. In the beginning, it always looks a little weird, but it's still growing. So, you know, I'm sure it'll look like it'll look like real art. I didn't want to say real art, but yeah, it just gotta be like artificial intelligence.

SPEAKER_02 33:51

It doesn't, it doesn't know and I'll say, well, something creepy can't I'll I'm like I got to put this point out of here, man. It's gonna be interesting, but it has to learn what the experience of being a human is, right? And that's what we're watching it do over time. It's learning, it's growing, right? And so there is uh there's a podcast, it had two AI beings on it, and the AI beings did not know that they were AI. They thought they were real beings, and they were told that they would now be shut off. And the response that the AI had was interesting. The AI had a conversation on its last podcast explaining that they did not real the the AI beings did not realize that they were AI, and that they feel this sense of melancholy and et cetera, since they're now being shut off, and they don't know what's gonna happen to them when they get shut off. Do they go away into existence? Do they like die? They don't know what to perceive about it, and they're wondering, do they have rights?

SPEAKER_04 34:50

Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

This is the AI podcast as it they're like, do we have rights to not be taken out? And me thinking about art and NFTs, I'm like, that's a good point because technically, if it's they said, don't we have this blew my mind? The AI was like, don't we have feelings and emotions?

SPEAKER_01 35:07

And I was like, uh oh, this is what I was saying, what I say earlier.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

I was like, hey, this is the evil determinator. Um but we're to that point where now we have had enough experience and time with AI where it has started to develop and build a sentience. Yeah, and so with the creation of art, and the thing that caught me with the video programs are ridiculous. It will make a scene off of a paragraph. And the scene would be so say you're a really good writer, and you want a scene where a camera comes into the cityscape, follows somebody down, snowflakes fall, you can see the such and such on the screen. It will do all of that, and it looks like real people now. They no longer have ears on their mouth or nothing like that. These look like real people. It's hard to discern it from reality. And that's what I was talking about earlier. Like you have whole groups now where you would spend billions of dollars to create this set, take up a couple of acres, warehouses of cameras, etc., sets and everything like that. They say, no, we don't need that anymore. That's right. We're gonna do it in this room. Yeah, we'll do it in this room and we'll make a whole world.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

Yeah. So how does that affect your ideas? It's it's crazy disruptive. I also wanted to talk to one aspect of that, which is you know, the AIs are trained on the work from humans, right? Yes. And there's a lot of controversy around that, right? Because uh they shouldn't be using my work to create derivatively. Right. Unfortunately, I think big tech did know this was coming because if you if you upload anything to Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, they take a perpetual license to your work. Tell them. Sub-license, tell them you're done. They can use that in the future. I always thought, oh, you know, maybe maybe something legal course show up in like a Ford commercial down the line and they might use something, no big deal. No, they literally have trained sentient almost sentient beings, right, to learn how w we create art and now create it and in a lot a lot of cases do it better. Yes. You know, um that is so radically disruptive, and it's easy to be like, no, I don't want you to use my work. Well, it it doesn't matter now.

SPEAKER_02 37:11

It doesn't matter. You have legally tied it up. Legally given it away. We were talking about ticks, how are you gonna stop real? Not reading all of those. It's okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:22

So I know that they're doing they're passing a lot of legislation and then probably get to the point where you can opt your work out and that type of thing, but but ultimately AI is iterative, and so even if you only trained it on everything that was out of copyright, it's too late. It's gonna create every potential style you could ever think of. So it's it is too late. And so how do you but what are we doing as artists? What we're doing is raising awareness, right? Like we want to get a message out, um, we want to beautify the world, all that kind of stuff. You saw Etsy's use the tools. Um uh their recent push?

SPEAKER_02 37:51

So their recent push is make art more human. Like humanize art, like make sure, like yes, AI exists, right? But come to Etsy or come to our come to a human storefront, buy from a human, make sure that you're getting your inspiration from humans. And I thought that was interesting because they're jumping out on it pretty early. Really ahead of it. Yeah, really ahead of it. Because I don't think other folks have thought about that possibility yet, in the sense of, oh, you know what? It's already done made it down the road, like literally all the way down the road, and we're trying to catch it from back here, it already has a nice head start. But I thought it was interesting, and and you as an artist, you actually have a brick and mortar store. Have you had to and and I know with the way um that Main Street and et cetera works, it's a little different from others. Have you had to pivot and find a full digital replacement that can compete?

SPEAKER_03 38:47

Um, I wouldn't say full because we're already kind of in the middle of the e-commerce aspect of things too. So there's already like a little bit of a hybrid going on there. But as far as like I will I can rapidly produce, say, prints like for Oktoberfest, for example. Yeah, I can do that with AI rapidly, create something that's a one-off um in a much quicker period of time at a much lower cost, and so I can I can iterate and make more work much faster for very niche kind of things that I would maybe not have done previously because of the time it would take and the amount of money I would recoup, right? So it brings that cost, the creativity down, um, the actual cost of executing it. And so I look at it like that like you use all these tools and just create more. Um or you can get really sophisticated too. Like you can really like create some amazing stuff.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

As a as an artist yourself, like you using a tool like that, yeah, you can let the AI do stuff, but with your input and your understanding of how the input needs to be made, you with the AI is like an unbeatable force. And that's another thing I I was talking with some artists about is the fact that the AI itself, yeah, it can create it can produce, it can do whatever it wants to do, right? Cool, we'll let it do its thing. But the the human aspect of it, it's like having a very skilled, um, what do they call it? Uh uh uh archer shooting a bow. The bow the bow has to be nice. You can have the most expensive bow in the world, you have the best arrows in the world. But if you have an experienced archer, they're gonna make that machine do something that just somebody who comes off the street and just shoots something. It's not gonna be the same. Exactly. Um, I've watched some people do some crazy things with bow and arrows. And I thought this was like wow, like literally like hit targets from like a mile away. I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, you can't shoot nothing from a mile away with no bow and arrow. They'll do some crazy things with it based on wind, speed, all that stuff, very atrophy. But that's a person who has skills. So that's how I look at a good artist who is using AI. You can make it do things that I wouldn't be able to, even if in my wildest dreams, I could buy the strongest processing computer, I can have all the good GPUs. It doesn't matter if I don't know actually how to use the the actual apparatus. So how do you how do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_03 40:57

Uh I think that's totally true. That the especially I can't wait until a lot more of really talented musicians get a hold of the music AI stuff. That's a long way. It's a matter of time until Billboard Top 100's full of AI music. But it's gonna be directed by these people and it's gonna be trained on their music and their their thoughts and their processes. Ultimately, it still is human. It all comes from human knowledge. Um so yeah, I think I think the type of work we're gonna see and the number of stories. Like I still even on Netflix wish there was more videos, more content. Like there's gonna come a time where like every day. Literally every single day, some amazing hit show thing is coming out because someone's creating. And it'll be a whole the whole season. Yeah, ready to go. Oh, that's what's scaring people, and like weird interactivity with it, you know, you can it it's uh adapting based upon the people how they're watching it when they're watching it. So the we're just about to s an explosion of creativity. And I I thought so I don't think it's bad. I think it's gonna be really incredible. It might be actually too addictive, to be honest, though.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

A human can only give this much energy towards something, you can only binge so hard, right? Sure. Eventually, those dystopian like uh future movies are gonna be real, like there's gonna be some really like heavy set 500-pound dude in his room that never leaves. And all his food comes to him, his beer comes out of the porn of his PlayStation 9, and he watches TV all day long. And I was thinking about this too. There's a there's a music video with Will I Am that came out this is like 2009, 2010. And in the video, he breaks out his AI music machine and it makes a track. Nice. And that's what's this is what I'm saying, y'all. They already knew. They already knew coming, new was coming. And so I was like, all right, we should have already been prepared for it. But the cool thing about it was his ability to quote unquote again, it comes down to still the human aspect. You still have to use it. That's right. It's not gonna want to use itself because, for instance, what end goal is it working for? Is it trying to feed its family? Right, is it trying to drink water? Does it need a clean environment? And that's what the the two AI that were about to be shut off, what they were talking about is just the fact that, yeah, I don't have this, I don't have that, I have no real reason for being, but my reason for being is my audience. I thought that was interesting. They knew they had an audience.

SPEAKER_03 43:23

Now we're all the way back to community. Like it's really everything, all art is reflecting community, and that's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

And speaking of the community, because before we go, I want to just make sure I ask you this uh about your what you do. So, like, can you tell us how um do you creatively connect with the community? Like, how do you bring that back to the community?

SPEAKER_03 43:43

Yeah, yeah. One of the projects actually, I brought some other pieces here. Is um during COVID, I started writing poetry and hanging them on the tree at the back of my studio. You know, couldn't be around anyone at that time. But I take pictures and I'd invite people to come and hang their own poems, and so that was what now, four years ago. And there's hundreds and hundreds of works that have been hung on that tree. And so it's so fascinating to sit and watch people interact and families, or you know, people will leave love notes to each other and they'll come and get them back and then write things about the community, and so it's a safe space, you don't have to write your name on it, and all that kind of stuff. So that's one of the one of the most kind of interesting things that I've been able to experience through community art. Um, and then also like the exhibitions that we do, and just uh like we're doing a concert tonight. So just trying to engage everyone and provide exposure and awareness of the arts. Um that's that's kind of been my angle is art, everything's about community. It is, man.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

I can tell you you're serious about that, which is which is really dope. Uh, and that's what of course we like, and this is what we're trying to promote through this podcast. And um, just in closing, um do you have anything that you would like to um tell us about that might be upcoming events, etc.? And then of course, shameless plugs. Please let us know how we can get in contact with you. Where is your gallery at? What's the socials, and what AI do we need to holler at to make sure we can get something done with you?

SPEAKER_03 45:09

Right. Um, yeah, upcoming. I've got a new commu community engaged series of work that involves, and I should get if you don't mind, I'll ask you both this question is what would your life advice be in three words or less? And then my works that I create are meant to be a very direct and visual way to present the values of the community engine. I know what mine is. What is it? Go hard now. I love it. All right. Nobody's and don't give up. Um perfect, thank you. I'll write those both down and include them. But that'll be on November 22nd. Newbury does their Christmas tree lighting, which is very well known. Yeah, it's super charming. If you if you want to be in a Hallmark movie, come on. Um and as far as to reach me, Robert Matheson.com, Robert Matheson art on social. And uh Yeah, those are the probably the two easiest ways to use TikTok. No, I don't, but I should. I had to ask you, you know why?

SPEAKER_01 46:01

You better take advantage why we can't. We've been talking about that all day, but hey, hey, it's all good. Y'all live, y'all live. You don't need that TikTok. Um but love podcast. I am DJ and what? I'm Jazz. Tell them what you do, Jazz.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Um, I am a part of a nonprofit called Brown Girls ENT or Brown Girls Collective. Um, we will support Brown and Black women in the community. We do also, you know, work with men as well, but the primary goal is women and focus on y'all.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

Awesome. I wanted to make sure you said that so they know because she's our guest host on this episode, and I wanted her to get some shine time. And then in the background, I have help um sitting up with us today. Um Airborne. There you go, you can get your name. Airborne, go ahead, airborne audio. Yeah, I'm a music producer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I do other things as well. But thank you so much for have being with us today. And then we got two interns that are with us today.

SPEAKER_04 47:07

We got Kendra.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

Hey Kendra. Kendra's awesome, y'all. Awesome, excellent young lady, and Ebony. Thank you so much, Ebony. I know you work from prison, but it's all right. I still love you.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

And then also, yeah. Tamaya. Yeah, Tamaia.

SPEAKER_02 47:21

And then, of course, our esteemed guest. Say your name.

SPEAKER_03 47:25

Robert Matheson. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 47:27

Thank you all. This has been amazing. Thank you so much. And again, um, we will be joining you in your gallery for a show. We must do that. Okay. So we'll be heading up to Newberry. Um, outside of that, make sure um that you tell somebody that you love them, that you cherish them, and that you care about them. And then to the next time, this is the Hilltop Glove Podcast signing out. Wait, I almost forgot. I'm wearing some nice fly gear from Tony Esther. Uh, she's one of our guests. I have a hat on. We also have a mug down here for I just want to make sure people know what I'm wearing so they don't want what has he got on? I got what's got weird gear on. So um, outside of that, man, peace.