SPEAKER_03 1:45

Welcome back to the Hilltop Glove Podcast. Today we have the pleasure of speaking with the talented Ryan Essig. Is that correct? Awesome. Also known as Princeton. Princeton is a Charlotte-based artist known for his dynamic blend of rap and pop, infused with vivid storytelling. Princeton has made a significant mark in the music industry with his unique sound and engaging performances. His career highlights include performing on MTV's Fresh Out and Tango Talento Mucho Talento.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

There you go. Oh my god. Paid off right there.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

Um, showcasing his versatility and appeal across diverse audiences. He has cultivated a dedicated fan base with over 700 monthly listeners on Spotify and 490 subscribers on YouTube. Among his viral songs, Prince in My City Stands Out, boasting more than 8,000 views. Prince's music trends transcends traditional genres. That was that was hard for some reason. Um Prince's music transcends traditional genres, offering a fresh perspective through his storytelling and rhythmic prowess. His ability to connect with listeners on a personal level makes his music both relatable and impactful. In this episode, we'll dive deep into Princeton's journey, exploring the influences that have shaped his music and experiences that continue to inspire his creative process. We'll discuss his approach to blending rap and pop, the stories behind his viral hits, and his vision for the future. How are you doing today, my brother? I'm doing well. How about you guys? Excellent, excellent. Do you like your body? Yeah, I like it. It's good? Yeah, yeah. You thank Tomia over there? Yeah, yeah. She's on it, man. I know one thing, we're gonna ask you our first question, but I am very impressed with the fact that you have followed us for as long as you have followed us. Yeah. And my brother was telling me about you, and we were listening to your music, and he was like, Yeah, man, we really need to get this guy on the podcast. He's like, he's really been following us and he's been asked to come on the podcast. And I listened to his music. His music's good. We like his music, we like the vibe. I was like, all right, well, hopefully we can get him on season five. I was like, God, Lord, I felt bad.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

I almost felt bad. Well, it was like you guys had to reach out, I think, like a year or two prior. Yeah. And then it was, and then like it seemed like some interest, but then it didn't come out. I tried to re-like uh, you know, reappear, and then I was like, man, these guys aren't. I think I had already envisioned myself on the podcast, so I was like, oh, like this needs to happen. I was like, and then I found you guys based in Columbia, so I was like, okay, do I need to if I need to go to Columbia, like yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh wow. That's why when you guys brought up the show, I was like, oh, all right, well, I'm good. I could just, you know, it's my backyard, so you guys are coming here. So we're glad it worked out.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

Yeah, no, exactly. Seriously. Um, well, we're gonna start off with the first question. Every episode, we want to know a little bit about your background. What was it like growing up? Who what influenced you?

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Okay. Uh well, I mean, I'm from Charlotte, North Carolina, born and raised here. Um little small suburb outside called Harrisburg. So wow. I used to travel like uh a good bit as a kid. And uh, you know, I just tell people I'm from Charlotte. So, you know, I I definitely feel like I'm definitely, you know, with the community in Charlotte and I've lived here my whole life. So do you live in Charlotte now? Yeah, I live in the Noda area. I'm not sure if you're from the So yeah, definitely just it's great to see how much the city has grown over like the last like 15 years, you know, since I've you know, since I was a kid and just seeing yeah, everything like from UNC Charlotte to like uptown to like the the district neighborhoods around it. So, you know, everything's like pretty coated with the city. So I kind of like if I didn't grow up in Charlotte, I would have rather moved to Charlotte. So that's why I like that's what's happening. Maybe uh down the line I I move away from the city, but as of right now, like I think you know, being in the city like with the music scene here, I think it's yeah, it's it's where I need to be right now. So tell me about the music scene here, man.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Uh it's you know, Charlotte Charlotte is kind of like like Columbia's bigger cousin. It is, it is, but I don't ever make it up here unless it's for like a specific show. I don't know what's going on on a Friday night. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Yeah, I mean, I think there's like a lot of different like ways to cultivate like uh artistry, like from you know, just beginners. Like we have like a few open mics that are like consistent either weekly or monthly that just get like people in the door. And I mean, yeah, like you know, you think of like bigger concerts like something at the spectrum or Vojna's policy. Yeah, there's always something going on, but I mean I think for like the local scene, I mean it's just a lot of people. Um, you know, I've done some stuff with Music Everywhere CLT, which is like an initiative uh by Charlotte Sydney Partners. Um, yeah, yeah. I think that they're trying to make it. Yeah, like they did Confluence, they put uh Confluence together, which was like a music conference. Yes, I don't know. So yeah, they uh it's definitely an initiative that's been taken by people that like you know, maybe not even have music backgrounds, but you know, want to see the music scene thrive.

SPEAKER_03 6:31

Because it's good for the business.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Yeah, it's good for the overall yeah, you know, economy of the city. So you know, I think uh as a as an independent artist, you know, I'm I'm trying to figure out ways to you know make money, you know, as well. Yeah, you have to. And a lot of independent artists, you know, are trying to figure that out as well.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

So I wanted to ask, what are some of the locations that you're talking about with these open mics that occur? If you can name them so that that way the audience will know.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Uh evening Muse, uh Monday nights, every Monday, they do uh open mic at Zenoda. Awesome. Uh there's one called Jambox Studios. They do open micro. Oh yeah. Yeah. On one first Wednesday of the month. I just uh performed at that one actually this past Wednesday. You did? Yeah. And then uh and it's really I I think open mics is just really because I've I've been performing for like, you know, close to like seven, eight years. I think it's just I just need to get reps. I think that's it. Just like anything you do. I figure I I like every time I perform, I find like something subtle, you know, that I can include in the performance that like, you know, I just it just came about in the performance of my oh, I'm gonna add this to my next one. So you know. Uh there's another one called uh Tosco uh open mic that's also at the evening muse, but it's like uh hosted by a guy named John Tosco. Uh he's like like another person that's like you know older gentleman in the city that like has some sort of infrastructure when it comes to music. So awesome.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

Yeah, awesome. Because it's good for people to know, especially like the audience, they'll hear you talking about it, but then they'll be like, what's the where is that?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Where's that? Where can I find them? Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

A lot of stuff is just it just takes some exposure. And I think um I just went to an event last night, uh, it's called CLT is Creative, Charlotte's Creative, and they had a mixer, and like that's like probably I started going to those like a year ago, and it's just understanding how to, you know, the networking aspect, because I'm as an artist, I was just focused on just making the music. I want it to be like in my studio or you know, wherever I record, you know, and focus on the music. But uh a lot of opportunities have come about for me just being out and about in the city and showing face to not even musicians, but just like entrepreneurs, say that one more time.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

Say it one more time.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Uh a lot of opportunities have come about just by showing face and being out and showing support to people. I need to hear that. Yeah, I didn't hear that. I didn't realize that at the time we all together. We all need to hear that.

SPEAKER_03 8:36

No, because people sometimes they get caught up in watching how things occur. And we were talking, man, that may be the string for today, but you actually have to put certain things to work. You gotta go out there, you gotta, you gotta be fearless, you gotta show, be able to understand your emotions and handle your business. And sometimes we'll get in our own way and not even know it. So I just like people when they say that, I say say it again. But um, we're gonna get to this real boring questions before we get to it. No, no, no, I because this is what we're supposed to ask you to start.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

But yeah, yeah, no, yeah, it's either a biography or it's a big thing.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

Right? So we just just want to know more about your influences. Where'd you go to high school? How did you like did you go to college? What like what was your route to get to here? Like, do you have brothers and sisters? I'm an only child. Really?

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Yeah, I think maybe that probably helped with the artist. When were you when were you born? I was 95. I'm a 95 baby. No month. Oh, August. Date 29th. I'm Virgo.

SPEAKER_03 9:29

That's what I was about to say. I figured it. God almighty.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

September or August?

SPEAKER_03 9:33

September 9th. Okay, there you go. Yeah, that's to my background. Her Virgo. So she she always likes to know what the the horoscope says. And what's funny is a lot of um crazy when they come out. I mean, y'all Virgos. And she's been telling us if you think she's lying, but it keeps lining up.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

It's like tame, it's like we can we can make it tame, but then yeah, you know, you know, we know what it is. It works. So um if you could just tell us about uh yeah, no, I think um, you know, I'm uh actually like a mixed race person. My mom is uh Peruvian and my dad is American. So uh, you know, I think uh definitely I grew up in a school where it was like mostly white people, but like white and black. And so I was didn't really like understand more about like my Hispanic side until like you know, as I got older. Yeah. And uh I think like musically, I mean, I think that just helps because uh just the different taste of genres. My uh my dad put me onto a lot of stuff, and I think by the age of 12, I knew the greatest hits of like Michael Jackson, Prince, the temptations, war. I could just keep going. Elvis, yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why can't we be friends? Yeah, I could uh yeah, uh Little Richard, Chuck Barry, um, yeah, Rock Goody, yeah, Elvis Presley, Johnny Cash, uh the Beatles. Dang, uh definitely like uh good music that was in from like the 60s and 60s.

SPEAKER_03 10:50

Watching people like who would play that instrument behind you and go down.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, I actually cut my first record as an 11-year-old. It wasn't I went to Sun Studios. We did a my dad and I did a tour of Sun Studios. Yeah, and um I didn't cut the well, I recorded. Basically, you could pay like 30 bucks, which was a pretty good deal at the time, and you could record two songs. So I was 11 years old, and that was my first time on a mic. And I did uh Great Balls of Fire by J. Lee Lewis and Tootie Fruity by uh Little Richard. Do you still have it? I have yeah, I have a CD or I have a file. I have a file. It's you know, I got a master file somewhere, you know, definitely on a on a laptop or a hard drive. So yeah, I definitely have that. But uh that was my first time being introduced to like actually because I think as a kid I would just love like performing like to my to my family and you know to my parents, you know. I just you know I love the songs, uh especially Michael Jackson probably was probably the most of course, yeah. Of course, great, and uh yeah, and the those two songs I think uh because I don't think they had any Michael Jackson, you know how you did you had to do some rockabilly, yeah. So uh Balls of Fire and uh Tutie Fruity definitely were the two songs that I was like very was comfortable doing. So I remember I recorded each song twice. The first time it was okay, and then the second time I just like amped it up, I guess, as a even as a kid.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

One more time.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

And uh and I did like a whole and I remember because like now, you know, when I recorded, like I'll piece it together, you know, and uh but now that time I just did like a straight through, yeah, yeah, straight through twice. Yeah, I was I was 11-year-old kid, so I had a lot of probably a lot of energy to get that off. So yeah, no. And it and honestly, like it is it sounds funny, but it it sounded pretty good. Like I I don't think I sounded bad on them. I got that, I think I sounded good. So that was my first introduction. And I think my mom uh she put me in like a Elvis Presley fan club, and I think I got I got to perform at one of the events when I was like 11. So yeah, and they were trying to like my mom was trying to organize it where I could be like on a tour with like the Elvis impersonators or whatever, and it ended up not coming about, but uh yeah, I think they were trying to like mom, they were here, yeah. Yeah, so I think that's uh definitely um I think in the space that I do now, pop rap, I think I I really haven't understood, but like I've taken like a lot, like I didn't realize how much the music that I I listened to. Yeah, like Earth When a Fire was probably one of the other one of the other ones that like I listened to like religiously as a kid, and like you know, just understanding like melody is in the rap space and in the hip hop space has like I think helped me stand out as artists and like people start to gravitate towards my uh songs because they just resonate and it's catchy and they just you know the melody man um and and and I know and and you talking about that with with music is very important.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

I know when we first started making music so many years ago, um we did not understand that and um I it took the time to to figure it out, but once you figure out that that's where the hook is, literally, then then you're running from there, and it's important. And when you listen to good music, yeah, you get to learn these lessons early. Yeah, and so your music has more fullness, more richness to it. I will tell you because I know I've been watching your music um from back to come coming from from back in the day up until now, and you have steadily improved. Yeah, and I'll tell you that's dope, bro. Like you steadily improved, you can tell that you have been working at your craft to get it better and better and better. And with that, and and and I want to lead this into what I'm about to say now. So you started young. Did you have a break? Did you stop doing music uh after you after you went to Science City and stuff?

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Did you stop stop recording? Well, no, I think as a as a kid, you know, you don't really know what you know what it would take, you know, in order because like you know, that was in Memphis, Tennessee. So when I came back to Charlotte, it was like I, you know, I just did that for it was like kind of like a yeah, like a partourist there. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So um you weren't thinking about it seriously. Yeah, and I think around the time I was about 15, 16 in high school, I started like like writing more lyrics and like getting into more hip-hop. I think that's when I was like doing my a deep dive into hip-hop. Yeah. Because I'm definitely someone that's like a student and I'm very like, you know, I think Kanye at the time was my favorite artist, and I was really big in him, but then I like peeled back the layers and like started listening to 90s, 80s hip hop, like Rock Kim, uh KRS one, Big Daddy Kane. Yeah, I just think yeah, I'm very much like yeah when it comes to that kind of stuff because I feel like that at that point I was like really gravitating towards like becoming an artist. Yeah, and I think for someone like me, I think preparation is like the biggest aspect and how I can succeed. Because I feel like if I have all the the the details and everything, I can yeah, I can you know be the best product that I can be. So I think I'm sound like a Virgo, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know exactly. So you all need to be ask everything our heads vibe.

SPEAKER_03 15:31

No, because that that is real though. That is real. That's that's almost it's something that's hard for people to understand. Yeah. Because it takes humility. You have to be humble, you have to humble yourself and and understand that you don't know it all. So I'm gonna go back and find people that knew what they were doing. Yeah, I'm gonna listen to what they do. I don't have to, I'm not gonna copy them.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

It defines where we are now, is how we got here, too. So then how do you know what is new if you haven't looked at what already has been?

SPEAKER_03 15:55

Come on, yeah, come on, you gotta give yourself a chance. Man, how old are you? Yeah, I'm 29.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

So I'm see, come on, it's a little younger than us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so uh so you were going back in time and really did that's what I want to know.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

I think uh I think a lot of it was like because I I would do like some shows early on, and I would see like old head like like black dudes, and they would just kind of like not really like they, you know, they just kind of dismiss me. So I just always I feel like at the time I was really like trying to prove it. So I was like, oh, I just need to like understand like this whole collective because I was someone that didn't look like a typical artist, it shows humble, it shows them being humble.

SPEAKER_03 16:30

That's my point.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

I could just say you gotta pay the cost to be the boss. The boss real tall.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

You know you gotta do it, especially like I I tell people I relate it to this all the time because this is always this ongoing thing with hip hop, with the creators of it and who deserves to be able to use it. I say this if you go to Japan and you want to be a taiko drummer, you ain't running up there and just start hitting some taco drums. You have to go through years of training, you have to learn the art before somebody will then even create you a drum for you to play. And then you have to make sure that that time that you're gonna do it the right way and give it justice because it's a part of a culture and they take that culture very seriously. So they don't want outsiders to come and destroy the culture if they're not about it.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

So I can't just buy one at a gift shop at the airport.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

Nah, not a real one. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:18

And I feel like that was that was that was my stance because it was like, yeah, if I'm coming into a space that's normally like, you know, not really made for me, yeah, that I want to make sure that like I'm I'm doing justice to it and I'm like, you know, treating it with respect. So I think that that's kind of just like the type of person, maybe maybe a Virgo thing as well. But just y'all are thorough. Detail, yeah, detailed on that, on that aspect. So, you know, that's kind of like, you know, I just want to make sure like my my was it cross my T's and dot my I's so kind of thing. So yeah, by the time I was 17, you know, senior in high school, I was like, all right, I'm gonna be an artist and I'm gonna be a rapper and I'm gonna call myself Princeton because I wanted to say Why did you tell yourself Princeton? I w I wanted something that would sound good now that the age that I'm at now, instead of like little little Clorax or like little little magnum, like stuff like that. You know, I wanted I wanted something that you know I thought could it age well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

That's funny, you know, if you don't use your real name, Kisten age well. That's smart. Good business.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yeah, I just thought I mean, yeah, I didn't really have a I like Prince a lot, and I just like because there's certain art like Prince Royce is a Latin artist. So and I was just like, you know, and I uh Drake is there's a university named Drake, so just kind of all that. And I was like, you know, Princeton. I was like, somebody calls me Prince. Like, I would like to be called to be called it, yeah. It seems clean, you know, it seems like you know, some some sort of you know Princeton.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

When I was searching your music up and your um and your stuff online, yeah, you know when I type it in, the university comes in. Everything comes up, that's Princeton. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so if you type in rapper after it, though, uh you come up.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Yeah, no. There was uh pretty good. I don't know if you guys know this. Uh it was a group back in the early 2010s, they were around my age, uh, Mindless Behavior. There were a bunch of team. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember I remember there was an artist named Princeton as well, and he's on there. And I remember, I think when he went solo, I had to like beat him out for the DSPs. So like he's Princeton Perez, and now I'm I'm the print. Like I I guess I was like the Princeton. I think there's others now that are Princeton, but like I remember like having to like be able to occupy certain like uh spaces, yeah, like on Spotify and Apple Music. So I and I was able to uh to to best them, you know, just by just I think just by doing it before it like right put it in the exactly, and then he had to go by Princeton Perez like on uh platform and stuff like that. So exactly, you know. And we're like that, yeah. We're like the same age, so it's just funny how this how those things come back around. Like, you know, he had a lot of success early on, and like I feel like now I'm starting to catch a stride, you know, later on, you know, and yeah, catching the race, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

So but if you do it the right way, it's built on the right foundation, yeah, you'll get good, good um outcomes, and that's what you're supposed to do. Um I know I was just talking about watching some of your uh videos, consuming your uh music on your pages. What makes you different from mainstream rappers of today?

SPEAKER_00 20:05

That's a hard question. That's a hard question. Um I don't know. I I think uh there's definitely a level of um introspection that I tried to, you know, put in my music. Did you develop that over the years? I mean, I think, you know, was it always there from the beginning? Oh, I I think uh my first song actually uh I called it uh or it's called Legendary, and that's just kind of like talking about like you know, me wanting to do music and pursuing it, and you know, and I think it's still on SoundCloud. Yeah, that was uh, you know, the first song that I came out with. So it's definitely like from the get-go, because I always wanted to like be storytelling. I wanted it to have like depth to it. I didn't want to come off pretentious, you know, in it, you know. And uh, you know, when you when you ask the question about what makes you stand out, sometimes I feel like, you know, sometimes it's like I don't need I just need to be relatable because uh a lot of artists like I think Kanye, I would say is probably the best example where like, you know, Kanye to me, he is someone that has a lot of great great about him, but then also has like you know downfalls about him, pitfalls. And uh I think you know, something like me, you know, I'm definitely someone that can fall victim to things like lust or you know, capitalism or you know, just you know, a thing, you know, vacation, you know, being on ego trips. And you know, I'm someone that can definitely fall for those things, you know. And I feel like that, you know, makes makes me human, makes a lot of us human. So I think at the end of the day, I just try to uh you know convey that through my music where you know there's gonna be times where I have like fun anthems, you know, party anthems, you know, because I like to party, I like to go out to talk to talk to girls and uh and then uh but then there's moments where you know of self-reflection and you know where I want to convey a message that I found something profound and I want to you know put that into my music. So it's about you're trying to paint a picture of a real ready, a real person.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

Yeah, exactly. You know, like you have both good and bad qualities and traits. There's a there's an overall character to you. Yeah. And that's important because you don't obviously it doesn't look and we'll from listening to the music, you don't want to be a um what would you call it? You were not trying to be a caricature type at all. Um sometimes you see it because it's an easy way to make money, yeah. Of course, right? Yeah, but um obviously you haven't, as people say, sold out to that as a as a way of doing things, which is good. Yeah, and it's gonna mean that like your music, um, it it has it'll have a meaning to it and it's gonna continue to get better. Now this is a this is something I know the answer to already from talking to you, but I'm gonna ask you the question anyway. Do you consider this a hobby or are you looking to turn it into a career? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

You already know the answer to that. I know the answer to that. Uh, you know, it's just like I said, it's just understanding a lot more about the business aspect. I think in the last few years I've had to understand more about the business aspect of how that works. So how are you doing that? Uh I mean, I think a lot of it is networking because some of it, and you know, and I would actually shout you guys out. You know, you guys are very like it seems like merit-based. You give it to people based on like, you know, and uh because a couple years ago you guys would um put me on the reels that you like new music. Yeah, sure. And like I didn't, you know, you know, you guys never asked for money, and you know, it was definitely I was like, oh, these that's why I was really adamant on wanting to be on this podcast because you guys actually were like, and I was like, oh, they actually see me for just being like a dope artist. And I think uh other places and other other people in the city, you know, if if some money's behind it, then they're behind it. And I think that's where it kind of like, well, I'm not really putting a lot of money in other people's pockets to get to certain platforms. And I'd because I'm like, I'd rather get it merit based. Merit based, yeah. I think what's helped me now is more of the showing up for other people and supporting them, you know, in any way I can, rather than just like, oh, uh, play me in the club, I'll give you like a hundred bucks or something like that. It's just like, you know. actually showing up time is money. Yeah. So I think um that's the kind of what helps uh me with the business aspect. And you know, and I think I've been trying to figure out things that I that what I would invest to that I think would you know actually you know do a return. But with a lot of independent artists, we we're putting money in different things like YouTube ads, and we don't we don't know what exactly it can translate to and you know if it's deemed a success or not, you know, based on metrics or what have you. So you know I'm it's definitely a lot of a lot of ground that you know and any in a bar independent artist can you know attest to this a lot of ground that just is you know you're trying to cover and you're trying to figure out you know it's a landscape that you know you have no clue about and you're trying to just navigate through it.

SPEAKER_03 24:26

It's almost not e it's it's amorphous but yeah I have a all right so two questions can hit back if it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Do you have currently do you have to work a another job to help support what what do you do besides I'm a marketing coordinator for an aluminum company in Charlotte so yeah it's kind of awesome. Pickle job.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

Yeah you got a pickle job I want the the reason why I want you to tell this is so like when the audience is listening, they understand like you talking about painting that whole picture. Yeah this is all realizing the real way that it takes to grind as an independent artist to make it to where you're going so that they can have a a realistic understanding of that thing, oh man I'm just gonna grind I'm just gonna do this and it's gonna happen like that. No it doesn't always happen like that. Yeah. There's a grind to it so that they know how much work you're really getting. Yeah yeah no don't discount yourself.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

And I I think that's the thing too because as artists we just want people to see the artist side of us. And I have you know I have trouble with that as well of just like wanting to show like the pup the polished version of yourself of like oh this is what I do instead of like oh my nine to five is like you know being a marketing you know coordinator and you know working at the momentum. Yeah. So come on it's definitely uh you know it's not something that I envision myself doing at this point in time but this where I am at right now so and all I can do is just build from there.

SPEAKER_03 25:38

So you know the stuff that you're learning there you're you're gonna take that in marketing it kind of makes lots of sense of what you do. And the reason why I was saying is because we all have nine to five. Oh yeah yeah and when we do this stuff people say man just do that all the time that's the only thing you do no it's not I got a marketing communication job yeah yeah I'm on websites come on man it and and it allows you to be humanized and we were talking about this with the guests that we saw today before you and this is our little strength or everything you want to be able to show the whole human one thing that my brother tells me Kevin this makes sense he's not here today Skip's not here today but um shouts out from him because he really likes music but the um the thing that we that we sometimes don't do as adults um are to explain or show to people what it is that we do in entirety so that way when we put out a product our worth can be established based on the time that we put into doing it. So you'll know why I'm asking you for this much to do this job or whatever it is. So that way we can get good payback. So always promote yourself. Even the regular stuff you do.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Yeah no it's cool I think with people buy into it with with artists they definitely want to like because we all are trying to be like the weekend or someone that already has a has a brand but can be mysterious like you know like a press or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

It's like we can't you know you're independent at this day and age yeah you have if you're you know if you're doing it independently you have to be able to promote yourself and like you said the whole picture you know so yeah no that's presenting your whole market no I mean I I I think it's difficult because we are complex individuals and um we are we wear a lot of different hats and particularly you know being an independent artist you're it's a it's it's like you're wearing all the hats of a whole production studio that did all that stuff for you you know um so that's it's yeah I I agree.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

It's tough man that's and that's why I I I don't like things getting glamorized. Yeah that's one of my big I I love to see it raw as it is because it gives you a certain appreciation uh for what's going on. So when I hear your stuff and I see what you did I'm like yo you gotta do a lot of work to make that happen. Yeah I'm about to enjoy this. Like back in the day when we used to watch a Michael Jackson video you knew they were on set for three months. So you're gonna sit and watch that video you're gonna appreciate it and you're gonna go back and watch it again. So um another thing and this is just um going into the industry. I don't like these quite but it is what it is. So in the entertainment and recording industry it's a diverse sector to break into because first of all everybody's there all I mean you're competing with everybody around the world now right you're competing with attentions.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Yeah that's it yeah you're competing with streamers street streamers have uh definitely taken the role because I used to post on um like in the uh mid 2010s you know on like SoundCloud I would post my music before I put it on DSPs and like a lot of people would listen just because there wasn't as many mediums of attention. True. You know like somebody like now now somebody's TikToking like their day with their dog or like you know them on a spa day so it's just like I we're competing against not even just other artists but like you said like the landscape has changed and streamers are definitely like taking a big chunk that even like people in the mainstream have it you know away.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

Yeah exactly because we used to focus on music because music was something that you could take everywhere with you. Yep. But now you could take videos. You can take everything with you. Yeah yep everything I remember Waltman's and yeah stuff like that. Oh man that was like MP3 players when it was just MP3 do you remember minidisc?

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Yeah mini disc yeah I remember minidisc so mini disc was like it has CDs but then you have minidisc and it was like a little tiny CD inside of a plastic thing. And Sony came up with it and we were all convinced I was I was I don't know we all we were all no it was just it was like a little tiny little cassette that you could need and you could make your own playlist because they were recordable and it was before CDRs were really out so you could do all of that and then all of a sudden MP3s hit. And that was and it just turned into a little pile of junk that nobody wanted to see everything.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

All that classic stuff just thrown away.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Yeah yeah but I you know I do think that that that Napster generation really saved music for a lot of reasons.

SPEAKER_03 29:58

Because even like you were talking about being able to go back and listen to oh you like YouTube for me because I I was alert I was really young in the Napster age but that's that's what that's what I that's what I refer to it as because that's what kicked it off the actual streaming age I guess music being able to be taken from the cloud as opposed to and this is what you gotta remember this is what's crazy because you have to deal with this and this kind of sucks. You used to have to go into a physical place and pick up a medium and then play the medium your medium would then be checked off as a sold medium. You would then get money based off of that sold medium it would go directly to you and only you based on your contract. Now what happens is somebody flies by your music they hear it wherever it's at a portion of that goes to pay the big company and then something really small tumbles down to you because it has to hit like 15 different spots before it gets to you. There used to be less spots because we have physical medium but now what's crazy is it's accessible but it doesn't do anything for monetization for the artist. You still got to go out and perform and as an independent artist one of the things that you will have to do especially trying to break into this being independent you have to have special talents or some way that would differentiate you from everybody else so that we want to spend money $50 $60 to come see your show. Because if you do that that's how you can make real money. Now what kind of special talents do you possess that will split separate you from the crowd.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Well I wanted to touch right quick on what you said because I like you know we we're always wondering like dang everyone's paying like $10, $15 for music streaming, Spotify music. Yeah. It's like dang. And you know it's like oh of course artists are not making any money because it's like each person is paying like to listen to every single catalog. Right. And yeah no that's why I'm like you know I'm I'm investing uh you know money into the music itself and it's like that necessarily doesn't provide a return. I I think I got like right now I think a hundred dollars a month for like over the past year from just streaming.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

So and I got like a bunch I got a bunch of tracks you know what this makes me think then is that like music production is becoming content creation essentially now it's that's I mean yeah I think that's a good point. And we don't treat content creation well.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

No I mean that for me that's like an aftermath of like actually like putting in the time for the song it's like oh let me put right now I gotta put some more time in the content creation but I'm more happy about putting time into the song and because that's the art. Yeah yeah and so it's like but it's now it's a whole nother beast with the content creation. So yeah that was just something I sorry I what was the no that was perfect.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

That was perfect. So what I was wondering is do you have any special talents?

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Um honestly I feel like uh like uh and this might be a stretch but I feel like I come from like that same like vine of like uh Jamie Foxx childish gambino in terms of like just being like someone that's like good with like voices and like just being very uh entertaining gosh I think I can be like yeah I wouldn't say like I'm an actor but I try to like include like very like comedic bits or like you know very Atlanta esque I think just like you know I I try to play like a straight character and like just random shit it just happens to me you know or like you know I'm in weird situations because I think a low key like I like with being as an artist like I've been definitely in like some interesting situations. I already believed one time after uh a jugaloo back when I was like one of my like I dropped my first project yeah I was uh it was like a it was like a showcase and I was like right after a juggalow and there's no no no offense to the juggalos it was just very like odd oh is it's a different world it's surprising world and he had a song with Hobson too which was like also like I was yeah and he gave me a C D and I Whoa and like the song with Hobson wasn't that it was yeah it was very good. I was just like dude what the hell like this is just yeah this it was wild to me but yeah it was just like one of my first showcases and like you know they're very dedicated. Yeah and oh I I would I would like to talk about that if you have a second is um I had just put out my first uh album actually um and I was 21 at the time and it was called 21 and up so it's uh yeah very very fitting yeah um and this was like you know I think in the scene at the time there wasn't as like the showcases so I had to I had to bring people and I got like close to 15 people that bought tickets which was uh in the grand scheme of things I think there was like 10 or 15 artists that performed and like I was the one that probably sold probably on the higher end you know of like amount of people and I just remember that was one of my first experiences where like I was one of the last people to perform and I was just remembering like having to tell the dude that was like putting it on together that I was like hey I brought these amount of people and like I need to be higher just because these people have been waiting in and those and I'm glad like my family and friends they stayed for like three hours you know that it was a that was a long showcase it was probably one of the most like disheartening things I've had to go through as an artist because I felt like I put on this you know this great album and I was ready and I sold tickets and I sold like 15 tickets which you know you know it's not ghost yeah and I think everyone else had maybe like two or three you know most people have two or three and I was just like you know trying to get the whole uh you know you're trying to make it get through to and I just look like some young kid you know probably you know and I think that's you know I got dismissed easy and he was like yeah I'm I'm gonna get you and then he just like time show you know act after act and I was just like what you know like I in my head it was like I was going insane because I was like look at the amount of people I brought like you know and you know let me let me do my shit. Yeah I didn't know if it was a case of politics or what have you it just I just felt very very naive you know and that was probably one of the times where I just was like so disheartened but I think the songs you know that I did perform I I think I left like a lasting like impression and it was like uh you know I think by the time I got performed I was like super amped up and I was just like let's fucking oh you know I was just I don't know if I can curse on here but you're gonna be good um that you sounded like Charlie David I also like to play with voices um but uh that was funny man yeah no that that definitely um that was tough because it was very I was very young but um I think I was just one of things where that sounds like it sounds like the Michael Jackson story when him and his brothers got beat up outside the club and they stole their their gear. Oh dang yeah and he was like six years old that's very disheartening no seriously I know what you mean yeah that is you did all that work in yeah I yeah no I was about to get it like in a fight with the juggler because I I I I called him like ICP I was like oh let's give it up for IC I was just I don't know I was just I was very upset at the time and I was just like let's give it up for ICP and then uh he just like looked back I was like I thought he was about to come try but he didn't ended up not coming because you know would have just been him some other ones exactly um and uh I think that was just yeah a moment of just you know I think I had to learn that like everything that I envision in my head is not gonna go no not according to plan you know only thing I could do is control like me performing the actual songs which I did but everything in between that yeah it was just like yeah it was like I was and I was like oh my God I want to perform so bad. So yeah no that that that early on and I think those kind of things helped me feel like I have a sense of resiliency whereas like man I just can't quit this you know I just put on an album you know and it felt it was like it was one of those moments where I was like damn but if it felt like I I had an album but it was bittersweet because you know I felt like I got pushed to the end of the line you know yeah you're you didn't get to have your celebration. Yeah I didn't get to like relish you know as as as I wanted to yeah but I feel like the songs that I did perform I performed three like hype as hell and they were and they were awesome and I think that's you know kind of what I took from it was like all right you know it's it's gonna be an uphill battle you know but you can do it.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Yeah exactly and you will eventually get to the stage. Exactly um with that being this is great this is a great segue into this so obviously dealing with that um that difficult period that difficult um event and the amount of work that you have to put in as an independent artist yeah you know this is we talked about this a little earlier but this is this is right on it man are you are you wanting to stay independent or are you looking to be signed by a major label? If it if if because like you said that's a hard role it just can't be that's a hard role yeah you know about this corporation over here will pay me I I can chill a little bit I could relax yeah yeah I mean you guys know about like the 3600 oh yeah I know what that but this is what I'm saying like you you can and the thing is like but there's a certain comfort that they give now for you is that comfort that important are you looking to stay independent or do you want that each label?

SPEAKER_00 38:06

I think if if a proper like split could happen whether it's 5050 or just something where like I'm not getting fucked I guess that's kind of what so anything over 40 60. Yeah so I mean it just makes it I mean yeah they have to win but you know and you know I I've seen a lot of these artists that you know achieve some I've been you know I like you know I said I do like I've watched artist interviews where they were hot like five years ago and now they you know they actually like owed the bank label money because it was a it was a it was a loan essentially you know and it's uh I think just under I'm like you know and I think that's where like you know we can gather wisdom because we see other people like un unfortunately like you know they've you know done their tribulate trial tribulation and you can yeah and it was like oh why are they not hot anymore it's like oh actually they they their whole deal like basically caused them to not be they weren't able to put out future music they weren't making any money off the music that they had and it was just like man this is a lot of like you know and you all you all you saw was that they got famous and they had hit songs and it turns out they were broke. And I think that's kind of where you know I'm I'm very uh interested in you know I I I think like I said I'm I'm okay with you know a major with a major like coming approach I'm what kind of so you said this and I want you to be definitive on this what kind of split are you looking for?

SPEAKER_03 39:17

I mean I think a 5050 I think that's you know I mean if I don't know what if that's with like touring what just own your your image oof because that's another thing that goes in those 360 deals your name image and likeness that's where what do you think the name image and likeness came from yeah it was already being used on artists but now the children who play football in college can now get some of that money which is cool but also that name yeah would you be okay because that's a deal that a lot of folks take so they can use it in perpetuity throughout the universe well the only thing stupid that they write it like that like like when uh who was it that they had like a Sims it was uh uh it was black eyed peas yeah they had a like a sp a sim spin-off called the herbs and it was the black eyed peas yeah herbs the herbs the herbs it's the urban sims yeah because it can't be the regular sims can't be regular because they aren't in the city anymore but yeah they um they they can own image so like whatever this is one reason I don't know if you heard this story if you know about these politics but Snoop Dogg the reason why it was so important for him to buy Death Row records so there was a lady who owned it she's owned it for like she owned it since it was sold in the mid-90s but um she what she did is she saw that Snoop wanted to buy it from her and Snoop wanted to buy it she thought he just wanted it just so he can have the name Death Row Records. Oh they still had him on paper they still had him on papers meaning his image and who does the most marketing in the world Snoop Dogg sounds and the reason why he was having to do so much is because they were taking percentage to this day. That's why he ended up he couldn't use the dog with the two G's that's why he's still putting out music yeah they're still owning his they're owning money so he's restricted from using certain things in his old catalog everything that says Snoop Dog on it. So it's an induced the hits the hits the 90s hits that hurts so he had to buy it back. He had to buy it just to get it I thought it because you know he's a um you know happy dad that uh the seller you know they got a death row flavor I thought that was the whole reason that he bought death row was to to link but you you're right it was for other reasons but now he can use it in his own marketing which is a strong thing and that's that's the reason why why asking this question about the independence and stuff and and keeping things to yourself in these deals because a lot of people who get into music don't know it.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

They just want to live an easy and it's a lot different than it used to be it is it is I think um and I I like I said I I envisioned you know making records when I was coming up like 17 18 and then like having somebody kind of pluck me and kind of like develop me. Interesting that's how it was you know because I was like all right like I have like raw talent I just needed somebody to like you know help me you know craft it and develop it and um you know and that and in the case of a major label or someone like an AWS that's what they and and now the you know it's on its head because now you have to actually come and give provide metrics of like are you popping basically like your social media exactly let me see your clout rating how many streams is like you know for each song and like how much engagement are you getting you know and it's like okay and um you know I feel like I stand out different from artists because some people are getting lucky on TikTok with like one viral hit. Say it they got they got one viral hit that don't even have a complete song they got a they got it I mean I think you know Jell O Jell Ball is probably a good example. You know he probably's been making music for a couple years but you know I I definitely could hate on it this I'm like he hasn't been making as long as I have and uh you know and that wasn't necessarily his his first route and um and to stardom and you know he got like I think an eight million dollar deal. Yeah man it's crazy. But it's like he's only got one song.

SPEAKER_03 42:51

So it's just like what type of letter did you hear what I said some of these people don't even have completed songs. They'll make a 30 second snippet right put it on there for people to use once they get a hit back saying oh it's it's moving they'll complete the song so that they can have something to then say hey you can sell this yeah let me get that deal. And just wait till you figure out how many of those are actually AI creators I would like to ask but I don't know we ain't gonna have that time to do something today yeah because you are you are a youth and I wanted to ask you about what you think AI is going to do to that initially I've been speaking about this with my wife and um we were trying to figure out how long will it take what generation will it get to that will be like you know what I like that AI voice quality. Because right now we still like human voice quality which is I don't know many autotunes to say it young try to bridge it try to bridge it YouTube has got a whole lot of very official sound and news people that are actually robots. I know yeah people be believing every word they're saying singing vibrato oh no no no yeah we ain't we ain't there yet yeah I don't think it's Aretha Franklin yet but I'm sure there are people using AI to write yeah obviously obviously obviously obviously all right before we close out I have two questions to ask um can you tell us I know quick tell us about your favorite performance and where else would you like to perform um oh god could I mention two briefly um well in 2021 I got to open up for Riff Raff, you know Mr.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

Jody Jody Hyrule the man right there. You know you don't know if he's a meme or a rapper you know he's a little bit of both um and and honestly uh I feel like that was where um you know I've been making music for like six seven years and I felt like it was like man and everything just kind of encapsulated that moment where almost everything that went went right that I envisioned it went right. And um I had a I had a DJ and we we met a couple times before um shout out to DJ Local One. Yeah um he we met a couple times before to actually practice and you know there was actually like certain triggers in like a set because I never had work with a DJ and most of my shows I just have somebody like play like you know that's play the track. Yeah exactly you know and play the next we go this is the next song. And uh yeah exactly so we actually had like certain I guess like uh cues cues yeah cues that um you know we hit with a song like oh lo-fi this you know certain like that where like really gave it and uh some of my songs I and I'm if you've heard the music like I have certain parts where I'm like I have ways of like when I do Prince in my city I want you guys to say A you know like certain parts. Yeah so yeah I try to make it as participative as possible because I know like that's what the fuck people are there for. Like they want to feel like they're a part of the the show you know so you know I feel like I have I like to have conversations you know when I'm on the stage and just everything with that riffraff like I think I was able to perform I think a couple acts before him so like a lot probably like four fifty five maybe close to five hundred people were there. So it was like you know I wasn't like the very first I wasn't the second so I was like it was definitely like a little bit Yeah, I was definitely put on at a at a great time. And um, you know, I had a 12 minute set and I did like I think four of my songs and I repeated it. So I had technically had five songs. I my first song I ended up putting it like as an encore again, just to have the crowd repeat it again. And um honestly, I think with the I and it probably was like 15 minutes. I you know, they told me 12 minutes, I was like, I'm I'm gonna take, you know, no one nobody was nobody had to stop. Nobody had a stopwatch. So I was just like, but I think with that 15 minutes, I performed it to where it was like I left at a good time because maybe if I would have done 25 minutes, maybe it would have got a little too long. And I feel like I gave the audience where like, damn, they wanted one like another one, and like I got off stage and like, you know, I think that that yeah, exactly. It was definitely a sweet spot where they're like, damn, we could have heard some more. But maybe if it was like 25, 30 minutes, they'd be like, ah, you know, towards the end, like, hey, yeah. So I think I I definitely had it where I I I've um maximized the time and it was definitely great. Yeah. And then you know, I got to see Riff Raff, you know, perform a couple of years. Yeah, man. And you got the and did you get to network at that? Yeah, uh, network, yeah, yeah. Um, I didn't get to meet Riff Raff, but I got to just network, and I that's probably where I got a lot of people that like like that didn't know me, but you know, I I was giving, you know, in my songs, I try to give stories and like you know, before I try to preface you know some of the songs, and you know, afterwards a lot of people came up to me and I got like followers on Instagram and just you know, people showing support. And it was like, yo, that's you know it's just crazy because it was like that was one of the the time where I was like, man, if I just had this platform where I could just open or like perform for like four or five hundred people, like I could make like 10% of them like you know, into you know, into a follower. And I think that's kind of you know, that was probably one of my favorite. And then probably the next one, um, I was um went to MTV's fresh out. Yeah, I got um asked, or somebody sent me something about like an intern that was trying to put on artists for the show, uh like you know, small artists. And uh I just reached out and they liked my songs. And for 12 weeks, once a week, uh I would have to reach out to her on Monday for her to let me know later in the week if I could come on that Friday. So for 12 weeks, I was hitting her up and she was like, okay, and then by Wednesday or Thursday, but uh, we can't get you on this week. Or like by Wednesday, she'd be like, Ah, we can't get you on. And uh, you know, I kept doing that. It's like one of those things where I like I felt like I was going insane, but it was like I already envisioned myself like on that stage. Like I already could see myself there. So I think I think by like week eight or nine, she had said, Oh, it's a go. And then by like that Wednesday or Thursday, she was like, ah, you know, we won't be able to do it this week. And I was like, you know, and I was like, I think that like the uh the artist that was being featured was like Ice Spice. I was like, oh man, like I was about to like I'm about to fall in love with Ice Spice. I was trying to, yeah, you know, I was already, you know, I was already thinking ahead and it's like, all right, you know, let's get out of fantasy land. Yeah. And um, I think by the time the 12th, I was like, man, I I think like it's just kind of like this really. She gave me the AOK like on that Wednesday, and then I flew out to New York um that for that day of and I pulled up to um Times Square where they have the Paramount Studios. And I just remember I had fun all this way, they had heard my music, and like one of the producers of the show was like, he handed me like an empty water bottle. He's like, All right, I want you to do your set, right? Like, you know, what you're gonna do right now. And I was just like, fuck, I'm already here. Like, you know, it's like it's already going. I already thought, like, I like I thought I was like, I don't have to do this, but it's like one of those things where it's like, all right, you know, in the moment, you know, the pressure build is like, all right, this guy's the reason that I might not be on the show, so I gotta, you know, so I literally just have the water bottle perform for a minute, and you know, the the water bottle is right, yeah. Yeah, and in the in the outside it, like, you know, in Times Square. Yeah, yeah, we were outside on the street, yeah, on the street without letting you know all of that. And it was like one of those things where like the pressure built so much, and in my head, I'm just like uh people looking at you, yeah, of course. And I think uh I've had I mean I I think uh being an artist has helped me like understand like how this how this works. Yeah, and that was one of the moments where it was like all right, the pressure mounts, like I I know how to rise above it. And like I just did it right then and there, and then like I got to be on the show. So it was uh you know, something like that. So yeah, MTB is fresh out. So yeah, it's pretty good. So yeah, yeah, go ahead, yeah. Finally, you have to let people know this plug.

SPEAKER_03 49:54

Let's plug on where they can find you where they can reach you, and they need to get in contact with you for work.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

Okay. Uh Princeton is on all streaming platforms. You can find songs like Prince in my city, 5 a.m. is called I feel like Pablo, Beijing, uh, but any streaming platform that you have. Uh YouTube, I go by Princeton Dropout, uh TikTok as well, I'm Princeton Dropout, and then Instagram on Princeton Musica. So yeah, those are my main social channels that I get on.

SPEAKER_02 50:23

So what's next for you?

SPEAKER_00 50:27

Man, I love this. This podcast was was on my list. Uh what's next after this? Uh I'm hoping to uh release an EP uh this year and then maybe an album as well, but definitely an EP is on the horizon. And I'm also like uh writing a book um or like in the process of getting a book made. So yeah, it's another thing. Uh it's supposed to coincide. Uh it's like more of like a sensual, like uh sensual like uh poem, poetry book. I don't know. We got feedback class. Yeah, you can write lyrics. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I think it um, you know, it it all goes hand in hand. So that's something that I wanted to explore. And it was supposed to, it's supposed to coincide with the track that I also have coming out. So, you know, just you know, creative. I think, yeah, just being creative. I think that's at the end of the day. Uh I did at the time, yeah. So like that was the whole thing that came about. And I was kind of like trying to make it like as a as an artist, like one of those like Jamie Fox gets. But oh, what if I just came out with a book, you know? And then I sent us and he's like, Oh, you should actually try to make this book. I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_04 51:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:23

So that's kind of you know, things I got going on. All right, just trying to perform more and like you know, any any opportunities I get, you know, I'm I'm gonna take them.

SPEAKER_03 51:29

So well, yeah, always feel free to come back to our podcast. Thank you. Always be a guest. Yeah, like let us know, like if something pops out, shoot us an email, et cetera. Let us know so we can promote it and et cetera. But um other than that, man, it's an excellent episode.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Well, actually, like I like I said, I wanted to mention that you guys have been like champion me like very early, like you know, a couple years ago, and put on like the Friday, you know, New Music Friday uh on Instagram, like without any me asking, like you guys would find my tracks, you know, that I released, and it was like something that's creepy. That's just me. It's creepy, but it was just like it felt like because normally like as an artist, you have to do a lot of that, you know, heavy lifting ourselves. Yes. The fact that I just put out my song and you guys had already like, you know, I didn't have to send anything. It it felt it felt great.

SPEAKER_03 52:10

So definitely especially for local artists, man, because there's nobody like yourself to promote it. Yeah, and I'm not gonna lie to you, I've been slacking recently. I might have to get back on it because work. Look at the camp work. Like we talk about because we do other things outside of here, but um, I know the importance of it because you get notified, you know that you're on a place, it matters to your streams, it affects how you get um brought up in algorithm and search. So we love to promote our people because everybody's promoting their people. So we got to do our job, you know. But um anytime, anytime. Um, but signing off, this is DJ and what? Mike You might in Princeton. We appreciate you for joining us today. Until the next time, somebody next to you know that you love them and you appreciate them. Make sure you pay attention with people are pointing at you. Peace.