Speaker 1 1:49

Welcome to another episode of the Hilltop Glove Podcast. My name is Tamaya, and we have a special guest host.

Speaker 5 1:54

I am Danny Foxworth.

Speaker 1 1:56

Thank you, Danny, for joining us today. And today we're going to be interviewing Ms. Shannon Ivey, an accomplished artist whose work has positively influenced communities for more than 25 years. Known for her story slam events and TEDx presentations, Shannon holds an MFA in acting from UNC Greensboro and a bachelor's in theater from Mississippi University for Women. As a founder of the What She Said project, she champions women, she champions women through first-person storytelling, blending art and advocacy. Her career includes directing plays, facilitating workshops, and touring with theater companies. Currently, she's working on a medical memoir. Welcome to the shit show, detailing her journey with colon cancer as a single parent. Shannon's innovative approach connects art and activism and education, making it important making important topics accessible through storytelling. I love you. I just love Shannon. I just love you. I just love Shannon. I've really wanted her on the podcast for the longest time. And um, she's a phenomenal person. We go way back. Yeah, we really do.

Speaker 2 3:09

I don't remember when we met.

Speaker 1 3:11

Dancler.

Speaker 2 3:12

And the project in where were we? In the um it was a storytelling project in the library, and we were in his town. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 3:22

The three of us. That was for um the Women's Rights Empowerment Network, Ring?

Speaker 2 3:28

Yep, we've done that together. We've gone, I mean years before cancer, thank goodness. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 3:34

So how are you today? I'm alive, and that is awesome. I like your tattoo. Explain that.

Speaker 2 3:41

So um, so it I have my own handwriting on my body, which I I don't know. I just wanted to. So it says, I'm right here. Um, and it's actually from a line from the book, and it talks about like both the moment that I'm like, oh my God, I just survived late-stage colorectal cancer when people like Chadwick Bozeman did not. Do you know? So it's just like that weird, it's like lovely, and like what? So this is nine years now. I'm nine years out, right?

Speaker 4 4:14

Wow.

Speaker 2 4:14

And so it's fascinating because I did not think I would be here. I did not think I would see 50. And I am well past 50. And so it's like, wow, my kid was seven when I was diagnosed. He's turning 16 in a few weeks. And I'm like, right. So when I have this like grumpy, like, oh, things aren't going my way, I'm like, Shannon, you're I'm here. I'm right here. And so I'm like, all right, so let's get up to some good trouble.

Speaker 1 4:42

Yeah.

Speaker 2 4:42

Yeah.

Speaker 1 4:43

So for the people who aren't familiar with you, tell us about your childhood and upbringing. What was it like?

Speaker 2 4:49

Um, so I think I make a lot of sense if you couch me in. Uh, I was raised in Memphis, Tennessee. Uh, there are a lot of things about where I live now in Memphis that are very similar to me. So that makes some sense. I was raised by a football coach and a cheerleader. I'm their firstborn.

Speaker 3 5:11

But wait, there's a lot of sense.

Speaker 2 5:13

It doesn't make sense. And they're fundamentalist Christians. Oh, wow. Right. And I went to Christian school, fundamentalist Christian school the whole way. And I am like A plus student, people pleaser. But like if you put me through that lens, you're like, and I'm like, but wait, none of it made sense. Do you know? Like I really wanted it to make sense. But through all of that, I write about, I write about Jesus a lot, which is interesting. I'll write about religion and I like I sort of think through what it is to be a woman. And I'm very Gen X, although I hang out with millennials mostly. Do you know? So I like make no sense in most ways because I'm just very curious about it. Yeah. Do you know? I'm like, what is this about? And so I so if you put me through that lens and I have one little brother, um, once I cut my hair off, we now look so much alike. So I know like if I were a dude, I'd be super handsome. I'm just saying. Because he's pretty cute. So yeah, that's our like little four family, and they all still live in Memphis.

Speaker 1 6:17

That's exciting. That's crazy. I've known you all these years and didn't know that about you.

Speaker 2 6:21

You didn't know about my brother or the religion? All of it. Oh my they're like my parents are like still elders in the church. Like my my dad's and oh well, my mom, they don't let women be elders in the type of church that I was raised in. It's very traditional. But my dad, like they're they are in charge of grace marriage. Like Christian marriage is like my dad's number one thing. That in Alabama football. And then my I know and working out, my whole family works out. And then my mom is like the head of freedom prayer, which is sort of new, but I'm like watching her, because she's very traditional wife, helpmate to my dad. Those two, they are so in love. It's ridiculous. They like literally all the love in the 901 sucked up into my parents. And my brother and I joke that they really just had us for Jesus. Oh. Because really, they just like to hang out with each other. It's very sweet and kind of disgusting. But yeah, I am the firstborn of that kind of love.

Speaker 1 7:21

Isn't that wild? Well, that's crazy because that's all you emit. Like that's what you put out. Yes. That's that's what I like about you. I I am like that with people.

Speaker 2 7:29

It took me a long time to receive that kind of love. I know how to give it. It's been modeled for me in good ways and some like maybe not so good ways. I learned a lot, uh, especially through cancer, about how much we were gonna differ on how we were gonna approach this thing, which is why I wrote the book.

Speaker 5 7:48

So, how did you that that uh that period where you learned to start receiving love? What was that period like for you when you when it really wow.

Speaker 2 7:58

Do you know, like I think, and I I've been talking about this more. It I it's not in the book. I think it's in the next book. Okay. So once I got through cancer, all of my most of my relationships had exploded. There were people like I would have been like, oh no, I'm gonna be friends with them till I am dead. Nope. Because divorce and cancer, things like explode in ways, especially if you're I talk about this in the book, especially if you are the caregiver and you're not used to receiving. I was 42 when I was diagnosed, and I had a seven-year-old. And so I was used to taking care of everyone. So when I was the sick one and I was late stage, and I had this baby child, it was very scary for people because they're not used to taking care of me because I'm taking care of all of them. So those relationships did not make it. Later, my family and I would go through a process where we're good now. Like you read the book and you're like, is she speaking to them? Are they speaking to her? Oh, yeah. We're all speaking to each other. We learned a lot through it. I think I had to almost die to get it. And then I had to like pass out an anthropology before my last date with a man. So I literally had to almost die to come out, and then I had to make it through. So, to spoiler alert, when I started cancer, I considered myself straight-ish. And then after cancer, I was like, hmm, let me think about this. So I literally had to go through all of that to learn what it's like to be loved well. And from coming out, I was like allowing myself, my kid and I were coming out at the same time in the pandemic. It was a hot mess. I don't recommend coming out with your kid at the same time. Don't do it, it's not good. And don't do it during COVID. That's not good. Like it's I made all the mistakes, and I like we try, look, it was not good. But my kid's queer friends were the ones who would not let me out of it. So, like, I was being held to account by Gin Z.

Speaker 1 10:10

Wow.

Speaker 2 10:10

Yeah, oh yeah, Gen Z, they are not playing. They're like, We're coming for you. You look, they say words, you look like this, but your child says you date men. This makes no sense to us. What's what's up with you? And I'm like, oh my God. I don't know. Right? So it took a while for me to be like, okay. So I'm really like, this is after cancer. I'm like, I really have to catch up with myself and learn, like, if I'm gonna be alive now, I have to, I have to change because my body was like, watch this. You're nervous about this date that you're in this overpriced place. Sorry, anthropology. You're in this overpriced place trying to find something to wear on this date with some doctor man that's driving up from Charleston, and my whole body said, No, you're not. And I passed out, nobody found me. I'm literally on the floor in the dressing room with a bump on my head and a bunch of clothes I was not gonna buy. And it's during pandemic. So I put that mask back on once I woke up and walked to my car and I said, That is the last time, that is the last time that I abandoned myself to a level that my body takes me out. You'd think I wouldn't have learned from cancer. Nope. I had to keep learning it. So hopefully I've learned it well now. That that look, y'all look very serious to me right now. That was a lot. I love I'm taking it all in. Yeah.

Speaker 1 11:35

Because, like I said, I I've seen you, but I didn't know all of this was happening.

Speaker 2 11:39

So because I didn't tell about cancer. Yeah, I kept it totally. Well, I I I learned to keep it quiet because of the responses I was getting. So at some point it was like, y'all, I'm afraid to make it. My therapist said, Are you more afraid of dying or living with an invisible disability? And I'm like, I'm afraid. I know how people act to people with disabilities at work. I know how people act, and then underneath it, I'm like, and queer people with a disability. I'm like, you know, stacking the deck.

Speaker 4 12:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2 12:15

How am I gonna raise this child on my own? With I can't, like I can't come out as having a disability, which I do, and I cannot come out as queer on top of it, and a single parent, and and and I was totally afraid. But then it's like actually, Shannon Ivy, you were exactly the right person to get this together and to walk this thing forward in a way you can't walk back. So in the book, I say things I cannot take back. And I'm like, that's it, steak in the sand, I'm publishing. And then I'm like, even recently, I'm like, nope. Even with like the thing, okay, can how political can I be? Go ahead. Even like recently with Charlie Kirk and then that whole thing, I'm like, am I stupid? I'm stupid. Do I feel stupid? And I'm saying that, like, I'm publishing a book. I'm just a lady in South Carolina. I'm a self-employed lady, bitch-ish, queer lady with disability, and I talk about it all. Am I ever gonna get a job? Are people gonna avoid me because of this? Because I've felt it. Like both as I've come out and talked about invisible disability and cancer, I've felt people distance themselves that I'm be shocked about. I think that's human. But I'm like, well, if I'm gonna be alive, I'm gonna be brave.

Speaker 3 13:39

Yeah.

Speaker 2 13:39

Because the right people will be like, I see what you're doing. Because I have like a part of what I know is a part of why I wrote the book. There is a serious millennial up uptick in colorectal cancer for people assigned female at birth, I'll say it that way, you know. But it's like for women, um they think we get colonoscopies at 50. They actually have moved it back to 45, but we y'all have Gen X and Boomer mothers. So people are still putting it off to like the last minute. I was diagnosed to 42. Uh, I would have been dead if I had waited to 45. So I'm like talking to people, where are these people getting diagnosed? At the OBGYN. So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna do this on behalf of my younger sisters and brothers. I'm like, y'all, we need to really think about this because I was early onset. That was nine years ago. Chadwick Bozeman, me, I mean, I can start naming the people that maybe don't say colorectal cancer, but those of us who have had it, there are some like famous princesses who didn't talk about what kind of cancer they had, but I'm like, all the signs are there. Do you know? And we're like, when they find it, they find it late stage. And if you don't catch it fast enough, we lose people. Yeah. Right? So Chad Bozeman and I, um, same stage. There is no reason that he at his height of his physical life and the height of his uh having access late stage three, his turn four, mine did not. So this made no sense to me, and so I started doing research. So that's why I'm gonna be brave because I'm like, somebody is gonna hear this. It's gonna be like if Shannon Ivy can go get a colonoscopy at 42, I can. Single mom, like not a lot of income, raising this baby alone, took an Uber there, didn't have the like right familial support at the time. I'm like, I'm gonna be waving the flag. If Katie Couric can like, you know, there's new stuff out about leave it behind. Um, I'm gonna, my new thing, hashtag follow this, is gonna be back it up because I want them to back up the age from 45 to 40. That that feels right because people, if you if we were to back it up again and then insurance follows us, this is what I'm calling street to state house advocacy. And that's what I'm about now. So I'm like, okay, I'm the one to talk about it more. Here we go.

Speaker 5 16:06

And good on you for being on top of your health like that. Because just speaking from a personal standpoint, I had my colonoscopy at 41. And, you know, I just wanted to be on top of things because I know, especially with black men, that's a common issue with us as well. So I figured, you know, why not you know cross my T's and dot my I's and just do these preventative measures to make sure that I'm on top of my health as well. So good on you.

Speaker 2 16:32

Yeah, thank goodness, because we're the face of the new uptick. It's before 45. Yeah and you're good. Yeah, and it wasn't that big of a deal. It's like one crappy day.

Speaker 5 16:44

I mean, it's the best sleep I I ever had.

Speaker 2 16:47

We now understand. Come on, that propofol now. Oh my goodness, don't get me started. I mean, we understand things about propofol. It's not bad. It's not bad. But then you get to go, like you go early in the morning, somebody takes, then you go to breakfast.

Speaker 5 17:00

Yeah, the procedure was like 35 minutes. It felt I came to it, it felt like I slept for eight hours.

Speaker 2 17:05

I was so happy. Even I'm not gonna so I found out during the colonoscopy because propofol wears off on me for whatever reason. And I like woke up and was like, What's that answer? And I'm like, cool, went back to sleep. So it's like propofol, look, don't you won't wake up on the propofol. It's fine. Do you know it's not scary? It's not scary. So I hope more people like you are like, you know, I'm gonna take if you have any signs or you're in any of the demographics we're talking about, like it's worth it.

Speaker 4 17:38

Yeah, it really is.

Speaker 2 17:39

And if you can't afford it, like a part of what I can do later is like there are programs that can help people pay for it. So you just have to know about it. And our friend Crush Rush had a friend, and he was like, Hey, I don't know, I have a friend who needs to raise money for it. I'm like sending him resources. So if you don't know about it, another place you can look is colontown.org. I hate, I hate that name. I'm also like the patient empowered patient leader for the I volunteer there for the South Carolina page. So it's for people affected by colorectal cancer and their caregivers family members. So it's free and um they have a lot of great resources.

Speaker 1 18:17

I like the fact that you're like deep in the community.

Speaker 2 18:20

Yeah.

Speaker 1 18:21

And how do you build your own community? How do I build around colorectal cancer? No, just around all the work that you do. Because you do a lot of work.

Speaker 2 18:32

You know that I was reading that question about community, and I think that's a really interesting and delicate question. There are communities that I'm drawn to that I am not a member of. There are communities that I sort of like was an ally for. That is also really normal as a late-in-life queer. I was like number one, like, I am so for the LGBTQ community. I was like free mom hugs every day. And I wore the t-shirt, it was not out. And the queer people were like, hmm, about you, Shane and Ivy. I'm like, I know. So when I would do free mom hugs, I was there like for the community. And that I think that's an important part of like knowing when you are in the community and knowing when you are an ally or an advocate. I think that is like the most important part of my work. And this is when I will tell you that I look back on that TEDx and I question it.

Speaker 1 19:35

Why?

Speaker 2 19:38

So the TEDx came, I did apply for another one, but the TEDx came at an interesting time. And this was sort of like a moment when I had a realization. So it's time to tell you about Travis. I think you know about my Travis story. So one of these moments came when I lost my job and kicked my ex-husband out and brought my baby to South Carolina to teach at South Carolina State University. Uh, it was the only job I could find. It was a really tumultuous time, it was way before cancer. So I had this like 18-month-old baby and me and a hot mess. And so I arrived at South Carolina State, and South Carolina State was going through a lot of uh financial issues, and so I was hired to be a theater professor there. So after two years, oh my goodness, and uh the students were so wonderful, and the buildings were falling in, and I just could not figure out why I was not connecting to the student population. Hmm, I had a little work to do to understand. And so I had a student named Travis who came up to me, and Travis said, So I've taken all your classes. He had. He was like, I've been waiting on you to show me what you like. And I'm like, What are you talking about? And he was like, So when you're training to be a theater professor, do they tell you what to teach? Because I'm training to be an elementary school teacher and they tell me what to teach. But as a black man, I have things that are important to me to make sure that my students see. So, do you know any black playwrights? He looks at me square in the face and I'm like, Of course I do. He was like, Do you have any queer playwrights? Do you have any Latina playwrights? Do you know any playwrights other than white men? That moment changed my life. And I was like, Travis, of course I do. And then I realized, oh my god, I am teaching the way I have been taught, and I have been taught by all white men. Oh my god. And so I was like, okay, existential crisis, I'm gonna figure this out. So I found Theater of the Oppressed. I was like looking around to be like, okay, and do I need to just stop being a professor? And you know, and you've had this whole career. I'm like, this it's just not working. Like my heart is just not working, and I didn't want to fail them. So I'm like, all right. So I I find my parents somehow, for some reason, that they let me bring my kid to them. So I drove to Memphis and then I flew to New York City where I was trained at T O N Y C, Theater of the Oppressed. And it was there that I realized, oh my God, there the traditional theater is a power over situation. Power over. It's like stories told by white men, and I'm fitting in, I don't fit into their narrative. I was yet to come out, but also my students don't fit in their narrative. And so this is where I became a theater, applied theater activist. And I'm like, it's our it's your story. I'm here to give you the tools and then get the heck out the way. So on that stage at TEDx, long story around this moment, I am jokering. Well, they heard I was doing this work with my students. So I brought the work back. It's like improv with a purpose. It's still my favorite work. It's still when somebody asks me to do something in theater, I'm like, Theater of the oppressed games. It's like improv. It's social justice. I'm like, so that means that I'm handing the mic, and yes, it's coming through my lint. I'm bringing things, but it's not my story to tell.

Speaker 1 23:16

Right. You're facilitating it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 23:18

So that's where I met Dancler. Okay. And he's actually in that. Um, he's on the he actually comes from the audience up on stage at TEDx Columbia and like participates. But TEDx did not want it. They were like, nope, that's not what we want from you. And I said, Well, this is what you're going to get. Yeah, I said, Well, if you want me, this is the work I'm doing. You're curious about my students. So now my students and I have this TEDx. Even now. So technically, I'm like, I don't know if. Like now, I would be the white lady on stage with my students, but it was so powerful for us to up in those rules together and then to create this thing together because all of us were like, What are we doing? I'm like, come on, we're gonna do this. So they created this show. I helped facilitate, I sort of frame up what theater activism could be: story activism, theater activism, and then they have this professionally to go along with them. They are on stage and talking as much or more than I am. Wow. That's cool.

Speaker 1 24:18

Well, that was nice of you to incorporate them into it. It's the whole point. That's that's the point.

Speaker 2 24:24

I'm old, I'm past the mic. Like it's I was talking to my partner about it, and like Gen Millennials, um, we're like, we're so sorry. Gen X's are saying we're sorry to millennials, we're sorry. But like y'all are raising like Gen Z. Like some of us are raising Gen Z. Y'all, I mean, it's you you're the new elders. Yeah. So what we were like are still how long did it take me to come out? What was I 47? Your generation and Gen Z are so important. Because as we're aging, we're handing we we we should we should handing you resources and opportunities. Do you know? That's the book is actually meant to be heard by millennials. I mean, Gen X's, if we haven't had our colonoscopies yet, millennials. I'm like, y'all, get this under control. So we need you to take our places because you're the ones that are gonna be powerfully leading, right? In my view. So that's a point. Hand the mic, hand the opportunities, like connect the people, connect who needs to be connected, and shower them re with resources. Yes.

Speaker 1 25:39

Can you talk about uh what social problems do you address in your line of work besides the cancer and because I've been knowing you for years and I don't know anybody. You advocate for a lot of women. Yeah, that's true. Minorities.

Speaker 2 25:56

Yep, that's true. Mostly I'm about I believe in, I believe in there's internal oppression. There is, I was I'm reading my friend, um do you know Sarah Days? Do you know Natalie Days?

Speaker 5 26:20

Bellam.

Speaker 2 26:21

Yep, so I'm friends with the Days family. And Sarah has published a book called Sankofa. Oh, it has a long name, but Sankofa shadow work. And it's about the epigenetics of trauma and what we inherit. And I believe that yes, there is external oppression. Whoa, and it is like, wow, right now it is real obvious, but there's also internal, and so part of my work is to like be the person that does hand a mic to someone who hasn't had that before. And then like it's important to me that people get a chance to achieve what they dream of. And so sometimes I'm working with people that are my age or older in my work. I am looking, the new work is I am trying to navigate how to get funding in the hands of people who have good ideas and no resources, and then upending the like charity model that's so disgusting. It's like, oh, thank you for the money, and then we're gonna control you and tell you how to do things. Like, I believe, well, also our friend um Jeff Coat, like has uh there's so many people doing the good work. I want to make sure people know, people with money know who to give money to. Recently, actually last night, Natalie's art opening was at the State Museum, and I was there and I brought um a street activist named Taylor Simon. Liberation is lit.

Speaker 1 27:55

Love Taylor's Taylor podcast.

Speaker 2 27:57

Love her. So the thing about Taylor, I'm gonna talk about her because a part of what I want to do this month is I want to aim people with resources at Taylor's work. She's not a nonprofit, right? She has a fiscal sponsor similar to mine, but for my birthday month, you can't do a Facebook um fundraiser for her. So a part of what she did recently was she she finally talked about how hard it is to fund her work and how she's depleted her own resources and her business resources doing the work that she does. And if you know her, she is this, she is everywhere and she is working so hard. So someone that I know is connected to a foundation, and so they got her money. And she told me last night at the opening, she was like, Shannon, because I was vulnerable. This person said, Do you have a nonprofit? She said, No. She was like, But do you have a fiscal sponsor because I have a foundation? And this person gave her $2,500. We need more of that. Yeah, more of that. I have a foundation, a family foundation. I know this person's work, like no red tape, unrestricted funds. Like we need Taylor. We need people like Taylor funded. We have nonprofits, but I'm really interested highlighting people like Taylor and connecting a thousand percent. So I don't know if that answers your question, but that's what I'm interested in.

Speaker 5 29:23

So having a deep appreciation and enjoyment for the arts grows over time. Can you tell us about the many areas of the arts you've explored and its impact on your life?

Speaker 2 29:33

I should tell you it started at church. My whole family sings. My whole family sings. My dad sings the soprano line in his octave, but the rest of us sing, sing. We sing. Now my mom played piano, and we all uh we don't have pianos in Church of Christ because they don't have any instruments. I guess some of the new yes, but we sing, we can breed music.

Speaker 4 30:00

Okay.

Speaker 2 30:01

Yeah. And my parents' church, they now have like a band, they have like a, but a lot of people don't go to that service because that's too modern for them. Uh so it started there, and then when I was a little, when I was an arising leader, I was a puppet, I was the pupp, I was in the puppet ministry. Is that the silliest? So it started there, and I I really think that theater became a way for me to examine uh roles for uh given to women. Do you know? I was already like watching my traditional mom, but I was really so much more like my dad. And I'm I I use she and they pronouns, so there's no he pronouns, but I'm like so curious about the way women show up and what's allowed. What's allowed?

Speaker 3 30:49

Right.

Speaker 2 30:50

So theater was helpful, but really nine-year-old me was a voracious reader. So nine-year-old me, actually, there's a statistic that says women's confidence goes like the highest it ever is, is age nine. So I think like 50 plus year old me looks back at nine-year-old me and was like, oh, she'd be thrilled there's a book. She'd be thrilled that I wrote one that I loved reading. I make no visual art. I am bad at it, but I love to be near visual artists because I just find it amazing. So mostly my friends are visual artists. My best friends are usually kind of shy artists. Yeah. But really, lastly, and even I was raised not to dance because Jesus would not have liked it the way I was raised. All I like to do now is dance. I love to just toss it back, toss it here and there. So whenever there's dancing, I will Elaine dance it up. I have no shame. I'm like, I made it, I'm gonna dance. I want me.

Speaker 5 31:57

Making up for lost time.

Speaker 2 31:58

That's right. Any kind of dance, Zumba dance, uh, any sort of Latinx dance, any kind of dance, I will dance.

Speaker 5 32:05

So do you have a preference in terms of no, all dance. I love it.

Speaker 2 32:09

All dance. I will even pretend to be ballerina occasionally, just to make people laugh because that's how much I love. Yes, I have tap shoes. Really? Yes, I should have known. You should see that. That's funny. That's my new shit, chats.

Speaker 1 32:22

So um you say that you're not a visual artist, but I feel like your storytelling ability is visual, the way you tell and you speak.

Speaker 2 32:31

Yeah. You know, there's um downtown at the Richland Library, Maine, there is a the art of being visible, and I wanted to be a part of that so bad. They they didn't say anything about it being LGBTQ, but so I like took a poem that I've been working on and I'd seen, like I'd given it to my friend Evelyn Barry, and I saw a video of like it coming through Evie's voice. And I was like, wow, I love to hear other people read my work. So I like really like sent that. So I took the pauses because Evie's a very dramatic reader. I took the pauses in Evie's version and I put it on the page. It's still downtown, you can see it on the wall. I like visually messed with it so it actually is more artistic visually. And then Ashley Worthen at the library then took chunks of it and put it like on the wall. So my words popped off the page and onto the wall. It was so cool.

Speaker 1 33:29

Wow. Is it still up right now? Yeah, okay. Yeah, the Main Street, right? Yeah, okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 33:35

I don't know when it closes. I think mid-September. Well, no, maybe October.

Speaker 1 33:40

So this is going back to expressing yourself, the many ways that you you do it. Can you tell us how you express your emotions and what's the most challenging role or life dynamic you've played?

Speaker 2 33:56

I still okay. You know the words like body dysmorphic disorder? I think I have personality dysmorphic disorder.

Speaker 1 34:03

So is that like imposter syndrome?

Speaker 2 34:05

Kind of like I think I'm one way. I'm like worried, I'm one way, and I'm and I'm perceived by people who love me as another. So, like, you know, this whole like loving myself thing. It's like I'll be like, oh my, are people? I keep asking my friend Katherine, who's reading my book right now for a blurb. I'm like, do you think I'm a jerk yet? Do you think I'm a jerk yet? Are you gonna still talk to me after I'm so worried about this? So silly. I think I'm there's a book called Are You Mad at Me? It's a new book about being worried that people are mad at you. And I think that's because all of the roles I've ever played have been the witch, the antagonist woman. Like that's typecasting, right? It's true. So is that hard for me to play? No, no, but it sometimes I'm like, oh, I know what's about to happen. And so in my as I'm aging, I'm like more discerning about there's this Enneagram number thing, personality type. And I know that there are times for me to step forward because I've I like I am when someone it looks like someone needs protection, I I'm like immediately like don't mess with them, right? That old school, like yeah, right. But this version of me is like is this my fight? Right. I am not one to be quiet. I am now more strategic. And I actually now, which is shocking, I finally have some wisdom. I'll ask permission. I'm like, you know, if you need me. I'm here.

Speaker 1 35:46

Just call me.

Speaker 2 35:47

Just call, like, just text me. I'm like, this is yours, but I am not gone. Like, do you like whatever I play a good lawyer? Do you know you just step do you like um just tell me? Here's your menu of things I could do if you think of something else. I'm happy to like put my body in front of do you know, like trans kids? Do you know, like other especially trans youth?

Speaker 1 36:10

Yeah, I'm like very protective, yeah, like a shield.

Speaker 2 36:14

Yeah, yeah. The youth, I'm like, got my eyeballs. So that might be like the next, they don't need me, but if they want me there, I'll show up.

unknown 36:24

Yeah.

Speaker 5 36:25

Now, just real quick, I wanted to get into your creative process behind your your uh memoir because the title itself, I mean, this welcome to the shit show. So please, uh, if you would just share with us what that writing process was like.

Speaker 2 36:42

Um, I use writing and writing personal stories as like kind of like journaling as a way to like understand my world, my interior world. And now you can tell that sometimes I was a little disconnected from it. So I wrote it, it looked like eight essays. I did not think it was a book. I was just writing to sort of make sense of almost dying, really. So at some point I realized, oh, this could help people, and that's the shift. So at that point, the thing began to happen where uh it took a seven years, nine drafts to get it to a messy place. Then I went to the South Carolina Writers Conference and I sat in, um I sat in and watched some editors talk. And there was this one who was very tall and she looks like she reads a lot of books. She's very smart. She talked about university press because I knew I wanted it in medical education and in the public. So that that I went in the hallway at lunchtime, and there she was, and she said that she's twice as tall as me. And I walked up to Aurora at the University University of South Carolina press, and I told her what I had. And she looked down at me and she said, Send it to me. And I was like, Oh, it's not ready. And she said, I do not care. And she brought it home with her a year and a half ago, well, two years ago now. Yeah, two years ago now, at Thanksgiving. And she came home and she said, Shannon, um, yes, I all I've done is like I read it, I'm in. And so we have been through now another eight drafts, and it comes out late February 2026. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, it's been wild. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 38:31

As not a trained writer. The journey of that. The writing, the process, the drafts.

Speaker 2 38:38

Oh, well, I'll tell you the hardest part. You want to hear the hardest part is that Aurora, after she read it, she she's so smart. She said, Um, I feel like there's something in this you're not saying. And I'm like, I knew exactly what it was. And I'm like, oh man, oh man, I don't want to talk about this because the minute this other part that's like before the cancer, oh, then everybody will know that too. Things I don't say, right? And so I like alternate roots had given me some grant money to help me because I didn't get an advance with this book. So in university press, you don't you don't get an advance, so there's not been money exchanged. So I actually had to go and write about the hardest things, really difficult things, and then realizing that there will be other people that will read it puts me in a different category of survivor, many categories, actually. So I'm just like and then after that, I brought it back and where I was like, this is it. What else? And then there was like another layer. So I think the most interesting part about this book is like telling the truth and knowing this is gonna affect more relationships. So everybody that's named in the book, I went through a process where they got to read what I wrote about them, including my doctors. And now, and people had various people had feelings, lots of feelings, especially my family members, especially my brother. Um, there are people who asked for their names to be changed, and I did that. So a lot of it has been like, this is the truth as I experienced it. It's important that this is in the book because it gives a backstory. Am I thrilled about everybody knowing all of it? No, but I do know that people buy your book and then don't read it. So I'm just like, fine, y'all buy it. Don't read it. Just get your colonoscopy. Thank you for supporting.

Speaker 1 40:36

Pass them on. Sorry. Now you got me thinking about those books that are in the little um, what is it called? The free libraries. No, you know how you're walking down the street and you have some places have like little books where you can just grab it out of the and just take it and have it for yourself.

Speaker 2 40:52

And then just hand it to the next person. No, it's not that bad. It's just like there's always a backstory. There's always more. And I think the important part is that that people, I think we need to talk about certain things more so that other people will talk about other things more.

Speaker 4 41:08

Yeah.

Speaker 2 41:08

And then we'll take care of our bodies more that have been through so much, either in this lifetime or like thinking back epigenetically to my mother's mother, because I was with her, right, when my mother was in her womb. So it's just there's so much to think about. And highly recommend Sarah Days' new book that talks about like it talks about trauma and in a way that is accessible more than maybe the body keeps the score. So there are people doing good work.

Speaker 1 41:37

It's hard to read. I haven't read it yet. Right. I haven't read it yet. Get Sarah's book. Yeah. Okay. But talking about the body, um, how do you find work-life balance between all the things that you do and juggle?

Speaker 2 41:49

Uh, the most important thing I've done is every birthday which is coming up, I do this birthday audit. And so I make myself take my body and my health seriously. And so, even like as recently as 2023, I made a decision to go back to the gym and change how I was working out. Because like yoga, you and I have in common. But now I weightlift.

Speaker 4 42:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2 42:13

And it is since 2023, has been such a joy to be my age and have ap muscles. Yeah. Like even at the gym, they called me two-pack, which I think is hysterical. I don't know how. You know, it's just like, but a part of what it teaches me is like I can do difficult things. And every day I come in there and I lift a little bit heavier and a little bit heavier, and then I put it down. So that's what weightlifting reminds me. It's like, do the hard thing and then put it down and rest.

Speaker 5 42:44

Do the hard thing and put it down.

Speaker 2 42:46

Put it down. Yeah.

Speaker 5 42:48

Yeah, that that's just such a that's such a great analogy, just outside of the gym as well. Oh, yeah. Just like you were saying, how you were pointing these young creatives in the direction of where they can get resources, the resources that they need, and like, all right, pass the mic to them. That's right.

Speaker 1 43:05

And see, it's funny that you say that. Um, because like you said, we did have yoga in common. I hardly do yoga now, but I weightlift all the time. I love it more. I don't know. You just transition into new things as you grow and you find yourself.

Speaker 2 43:20

Yeah, and there's a book, another book I'd recommend called Lifting Heavy Things, How to Heal Trauma One Rep at a Time. Very empowering. And so, like finding a place that you feel comfortable, you know, not all gyms are for every person. So that's another thing, like making sure the environment works. I, it's my third space. So I go to the gym, I've made friends much older than me and much younger than me, but we're all there to get the work in and then go home. Yeah.

unknown 43:53

Yeah.

Speaker 5 43:54

Man, this is this is a great episode. Meeting you for the first time and just getting to pick your brain and just learning so many great things about you. And you're doing just a phenomenal job.

Speaker 2 44:04

Hey, we're alive.

Speaker 5 44:06

Yes, we are.

Speaker 2 44:06

We're gonna continue it as long as we can.

Speaker 5 44:08

Yes, we are. So thank you for being on and uh thank y'all for listening to the Hilltop Club podcast. Make sure you like, download, and subscribe.

Speaker 1 44:16

Oh, we have a question. I forgot we got we guys we have a live audience. So if anybody has a question, please ask.

Speaker 44:25

Hey now. Um something you kind of put me on game to um as a community organizer, and I'm paraphrasing it is um you kind of talked about like a like an auntie culture, yeah, and like the need, you know, for ladies to have that kind of check-in. But how would you how do you define it and how does that work for Shannon? Or how do you show up in that way for other women?

Speaker 2 44:53

Auntie, the way I think about myself as an auntie is it's consensual. So this is like it, it's we choose each other, Tino. Like when you and I met, we sort of chose each other. And and sometimes those relationships uh change and they need a different sort of support. But I'm sort of always on the lookout. I even have like um a group that I love called Queer Writers of Columbia, and in it, there's at least two human beings who are up-and-coming leaders. So I like I see where there's consent on each side or like where we like make each other laugh. There's one I go out to eat with and I pay. You know, that's aunt aunties are supposed to pay for the meal.

Speaker 4 45:35

Right.

Speaker 2 45:36

So we go and have pho once a month, and then they tell me all the things, and I tell them all the things. It's good for both of us. There are other leaders that I uh support with leadership opportunities where people might call me. I'm thinking about like one of my former students, Beth Watkins, she's now like has a really great job at uh SETC. They offered something to me, but I'm like, nope, next gen, nope. And so I just keep doing this thing where I find consent and then I hand I hand things.

Speaker 1 46:09

You did that well too.

Speaker 2 46:10

Oh, it's my favorite thing. I love to make those connections and then see how it blooms, but it has to be consensual. Yeah, otherwise, it's like it feels like control or it feels like me bossing them around.

Speaker 1 46:22

It's like you said, the charity thing.

Speaker 2 46:24

Yeah, it's gotta be mutual.

Speaker 1 46:25

I remember you did that for me at the savvy arts venture. Yeah you let me take your spot at that event, and oh my god, that changed my life. I watched it never You were the right one. I was like, thank you for that opportunity. It changed my life in the art, looking at arts in how we move and how we do things. Powerful.

Speaker 2 46:45

And I just need to like sometimes, even last night, I was sitting with the Days family and I looked at Simeon and I'm like, you ever met Chris Chalk? He's an actor I went to school with because Simeon's trying to fund the the Golag, the Golag, the comeback show. And then he was like, No. And I was like, this morning, that's the first thing I did. I woke up and I like had them on Instagram. I'm like, y'all fellas need to meet. You're both good men in LA making cool stuff. Here you go. And then I just go boop and then back up. Yep. I don't need, I didn't need to, I knew it would be great. I just go, yep, these two. Boop, boop. It's like a matchmaker. Keep doing it. That's my favorite. You're like the plug.

Speaker 4 47:23

Yes.

Speaker 2 47:24

So fun. One day I'll figure out how to do that with money. Okay, that's next, Jen.

Speaker 1 47:29

There you go.

Speaker 2 47:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 47:31

Well, um, how can people find you and get in contact with you or collaborate with you?

Speaker 2 47:36

Uh absolutely. I'm looking for because the book's coming out. So this health stuff that we're talking about. And uh you can find me at shannon-ivy.com. Uh, Instagram is another great way at yes, it's Shannon Ivy. And then I have a I have a podcast. It's not like it's not like this one. Uh it's called uh the hashtag what she said project. And I'm trying to do more work on there too. Yeah. Perfect.

Speaker 5 48:01

I'm subscribed to that one as soon as we wrap up.

Speaker 2 48:04

Yeah.

Speaker 5 48:05

So again, thank you all for tuning into the Hilltop Club Podcast and thank the Hilltop Club Podcast for allowing me to be a guest. This was a lot of fun. And make sure you like, download, or subscribe to the Hilltop Club Podcast. Big shout out to Celeb Studios for providing the space for us to be creative. And if you want to use the space, they offer this, and uh, you can go through Peerspace. So make sure you hit up the Peerspace app and just type in Celeb Studio, and then they'll have all the information out for you so you can also create content in this beautiful space. So, Shannon, again.

Speaker 1 48:40

Thank you.

Speaker 5 48:41

Thank you so much. And Tamai and myself, thank you all for listening to the uh Hilltop Glove Podcast.

Speaker 1 48:48

Bye.

Speaker 5 48:49

Peace.