SPEAKER_04 1:45

Welcome to another episode of the Hilltop Love Podcast. Today we delve into the wor world of art with two phenomenal artists, Dre Lopez and Brother Sammy Lopez. These talented visual creators specialize in a range of disciplines, including illustration, graphic design, fine art, and mural work. Dre Lopez brings a wealth of experience with 24 years as a professional illustrator and 18 years in graphic design. Sammy Lopez complements his expertise with 16 years as an illustrator and 10 years as a graphic designer. In addition to his work as a muralist, together they have contributed projects such as Bullets and Band-Aids and they founded Penns Art Company in 2009. That's it. Stay tuned as we explore their favorite art forms and gain insights to their creative journey. How are you guys doing? We're doing good. Good. Yeah, thanks for having us. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Thanks for being here. Yes. That's cool. Because working with Bullets and Band-Aids, we've seen your work. So it's long overdue.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Good. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. It feels good to be here. You know, like we've all kind of crossed paths, you know, with a lot of the stuff that we do. So it's cool to be here and share this. Stokeness.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Can you start off? You know, we we know you guys are brothers, but tell us about your upbringing. What was it like in your childhood and what influenced you?

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Um I mean, you know, we moved around a good bit during childhood, and um a lot of uh a lot of our connection to art literally started because it was direct ways to like escape and connect with the culture and all that. And you know, you know, uh for me it was a lot of graffiti and comic work at first, and then that's that's a lot of what influenced many of the things that I did, but at the same time, um even as a kid, like delving into like classical art, you know, a lot of the Renaissance stuff, a lot of Baroque art and all that. Um so yeah, I mean, I think that you know, Sammy being my brother, we actually get along and we have a lot of similarities, but you know, your influence is Yeah. I mean, it was a lot of like animation and just anything that kind of let us escape into it and kind of fed us and something we look forward to. Um, but I think for me, you know, since he's the older brother, I kind of followed a lot in his steps. So what he was influenced by, I kind of gravitated towards until starting getting older that I started figuring out my own voice and what I like and what's different. But there's still enough crossover that it was always there. And I think being in a we have a small knit family, kind of having that sort of close connection all the time. You couldn't help but be influenced by some of the same things and run in the same circles. And you know, luckily he he was he's a good brother that he kept me in in that as opposed to being you know stiff arming me as the little kid that didn't belong. So I think this is the first time that's on record. Oh, we won't delete that part.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

So, do you guys compare and contrast your artwork?

SPEAKER_02 5:02

I mean, I do. I stopped a long time ago kind of comparing because I always felt like you know, I needed to be as good as he was. I was always trying to emulate or what he did, but there's always been a part of me that I like my individuality in art, in whatever I do. That's just always there that I didn't want to keep chasing him. I wanted to do my own thing, I wanted to stand out on my own. And as much as we do have similarities, I'm still drawn to other things that he may not be. And that's gonna influence me as I go along. Um, but to me, you know, I've told him this before. He's he's my greatest teacher, he's my best teacher. You know, so I can't help but tap back into that whenever. Yeah, this is this is your fault right now.

SPEAKER_04 5:48

You know what I mean? You know, this is you know, because I had you know, I understand the power of brotherhood and like you know, creatively work with you, obviously. Yeah, hilltop glove. It's just um like I said, it's just neat being able to sit down and actually talk to you guys about this. Because like I said, I've known you guys for so long, we've always interacted, yeah, and it's just kind of neat seeing it come full circle. And it's so ironic because Aron's not even here.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

I know I feel bad. Well, and then Mike, oh well. So um talk about how many hours you guys put in to develop your craft and hone in on your craft.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

And um, I'll say from my end, I think I think there's always there was always a little bit of like natural ability, at least early on that you're like you could compare with your peers that you're like, oh, I'm doing something that they may not be. Um, you know, I went to school later on at USC for for a degree in Bachelor's of Fine Arts, but at some point I don't think I honed in on like focusing on it, and I regret that a little bit because knowing the hours that you do put in, whether it was before or once you make a conscious decision of it, that's when you see your work grow. So this has been, you know, I don't I don't have an exact age, but for me eight years old till forever, till now. You know, breaks in between, life gets in the way, but it's consistently staying busy. You know, doing freelance work, it gives us an excuse to always stay busy as opposed to just creating for yourself. Um but there's never really been a big like pause for decades of not working on it. Personal projects or you know, now that yeah, we do we do our own freelance work, it's it's steady. It's real for me, there's never been a gap of stopping. No, no. I mean, you know, art like I said, you know, art for me since I was a kid was a thing. So like even before I started trying to do anything for the sake of searching a path for a career, for uh a thread of what that meant for me, it was just there, you know what I mean? Like um I I I give the like the props and the things to like the genes from my mother, you know what I mean? Because she had it in in her blood, she never pursued it. But when we were kids, like she did these murals in her homes of you know, like cartoons and all that, so it was just like yo, you know, and my father couldn't draw for shit, like coming from my mother's side, right? Yeah, it was an accountant, so yeah, not the creative gene. Yeah, um but because it was just a natural sort of dive into um you know, for me it's just always been just a part of life, you know. Up to this point, I know for a fact that if I'm not creating, I don't feel right. You know what I mean? Like like a lot of the a lot of the escapes that you have in life, especially while things get tough and all of that, you know, sometimes you don't have the best resources to like attach yourself to that or or or request it or whatever, you know. But art was always a thing that to me was like this is where I can lose myself, this is where I can not focus so much on whatever the rough stuff that could have been happening, you know, and just being constantly inspired by so many dope creators was just like of course I'm going into this, of course. I'm like, you know, and then um yeah, early enough, like I remember it, I think it was middle school, I was in in school suspension, and that's when it I did a drawing, and it was just like, yo, this I just jumped a couple levels right now, you know, the reaction of people. He was inspired. I was inspired. I mean, yeah, yeah. What are you gonna do in in school suspense?

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Yeah, that's really all you can do is doodle. Exactly. You have free time to doodle.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Exactly. So, you know, that's been a lifelong thing. So, like, I you know, at a certain point, you know, you you you've always heard the whole thing about like the 10,000 hours is supposed to make you uh uh master a master at your craft, yeah, right? You know, and I was always just like, yo, okay, that's cool. So that's something to shoot for. But it was always so intertwined within just what we do, how we are. We're reading graphic novels, we're watching animation, anime, movies of however many different kinds, so much art that it was, you know, it was always so natural that I was just like, I there's no way that I can keep track of this. And then afterwards it was just like, okay, so now I gotta practice. Now I gotta like put time into like how to how do I learn this? How do how do I freak that, you know? Like early, I was lucky enough to hear it was a professional artist, you know, because early enough I went to like conventions and talked to professional artists and you know, try to get game. And this one guy while he was reviewing my portfolio, was like, you know, I could see the talent, I can see the raw talent. But there's a lot of stuff that it's like, you know, if we're looking at laying out a comical page, how does this make sense to a storytelling? You know, and then he was just like, I could see a lot of energy and style, but why did he do this this way? You know, why, why, why did he create this panel in such a way? Because it disrupts how I'm reading the story. Yeah, and then the main thing that I learned that he told me directly, he was just like, you gotta make it a point to learn the fundamentals, you gotta make it a point to like get really good at the fundamentals, and then you can start breaking the rules. You can't break the rules without knowing the fundamentals, you know what I'm saying? So that that was a huge thing for me learning early on to just keep it going to this point where that's still what I strive for. Where it's like there's a lot of things that I've done for long enough that I'm like, I know how to do this, but there's plenty of other things that I'm still like, I can continue to learn this, and I need to get to a place where I'm like, now I can start freaking this sh. So it's just been, yeah. And I I assume we have over 10,000 hours. Yeah, definitely definitely don't consider ourselves masters of no anything. Not like there's always been a humility to it because I think there's a we're always looking to be inspired by other artists from all over the world, you know. Um, which I'm grateful for that because I never wanted to just focus on the local scene. There's good artists and there's inspiration there, but it was to me, I was like, it's the world. Like, why wouldn't you look at the best in the world? So we always had like that internal gauge of knowing, all right, I'm here, but these other people are here. That also pushes you. Um, and that that's I feel like there's always different things that kind of push you to keep working on on the craft and putting in the hours. Uh, even in the sense of like, I didn't connect and like say I'm an artist for most of my life, but when I saw that it was a part of your personality, there's also the sense of like, what am I doing if I'm not doing this? Like who you you know, we have different versions of ourselves and different interests, but not doing it is weird. Yeah, feeling like you're not connected to this thing at this point in our lives is weird. So that's also a thing of just stay steady and keep putting the work in because it is a part of you by this point.

SPEAKER_04 13:27

So, with that said, do you feel like sometimes, especially in those parts where you felt like you weren't as connected, despite your talent? Did you ever feel like felt like imposter syndrome?

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Um I I think at times, you know, I think I've always had an internal voice that kind of gave me perspective on my level of quality. I think getting a lot of love from other people that may not be in the art world, that they're like, oh my God, this and this and this is great. I know what I did right or wrong. I know how I feel about it. So in those moments, I wouldn't say imposter syndrome, but I'm like, I don't know if I feel like I'm at the level of what you're giving me praise that I am in the best of ways. Um, I can't say imposter syndrome because it really has been my whole our whole lives. It really is like actually in our blood at this point, you know. Um and I think I don't know, I have a weird with other people at work or or other situations that have nothing to do with art. Like imposter syndrome to me, I don't fully buy it because it's more about you start doing a thing, you stay steady with it, then you become the thing. Right. It's not about you're an imposter, you're just at an early stage and you're at a later stage. That's it. It's not that I'm pretending to be something else, it's just I don't have the time and I don't have the confidence to be this thing, but like everybody's an imposter if that's the case. So I don't know. That I've always had that a different look on that term. Yeah, I think having trying to remember the entire time to have a sense of humility helps you kind of navigate that whole feeling of imposter versus you hyping yourself up way too much, you know what I'm saying? So it's made that bit of it easier to navigate for me, you know, because like I've I've been doing this long enough and I've had enough skill throughout my career that I could have bought into the hype and that definitely would have put me way more in a place of like, am I an imposter now? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, so like it it it it it both kept me humble, but it also kept me realistic towards, you know, like what he was saying early on. Once you start seeing work from all over the world, once you start seeing how the amount of talent out there is just insane, it's easier for you to like like chill, you know what I'm saying? Like just chill and and and keep trying and trying and trying, you know, because I'm I'm I'm in a constant competition with myself, and I'm also in a constant competition with like trying to be the best, and I'm gauging myself off of those artists that to me are like they're geniuses, and I'm never gonna touch that. But the higher that I try to reach that, the higher that I try to like get to that point, I'm still gonna be better than what I was yesterday. You know what I'm saying? So that that internal conversation is really a thing, but I've found it out, you know, through, you know, conversations with my brother, conversations with other artists of all kinds. I mean, conversations with professionals that are really good in their fields, how they keep their perspective set on the right ways to kind of angle how to, I mean, how to not deconstruct yourself from within with this whole imposter syndrome sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

That's exactly what you do, deconstruct yourself, yeah, bit by bit.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Bit by bit. Yeah. And if you're not careful, then you're in a hole. You know, even though you may have already been on the right path.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

It's it's it's a balance. And it's different right now with social media that the comparison game is from so much bigger. Yeah. That before that was the case, you would compare yourself with people in your area, right? In your city, in your classroom. Now it's the whole world. So it is a tricky thing to not, you know, not with AI, that's its own thing, but it is a tricky thing to kind of figure out your um your internal compass in this journey, you know. It but it helps having somebody to like bounce that off of. So fortunate about that for as far as having my brother for that part of it.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

What advice would you guys give aspiring artists? Um, maybe some self-taught or maybe some that are in school for fine arts. Because I know I went to school for fine arts, but I do I don't draw anymore. So I'm like, maybe that's another area I need to tap back into. But I'm exploring other areas of the arts. What advice would you give?

SPEAKER_02 18:19

I mean, you know, I can speak on it from the self-taught route. You know, he's also self-taught, but he also went to school. So maybe you can give perspective into that area. Yeah. But like I think that you know, some of the main things from the get-go is understanding that you're choosing a path that is gonna be very difficult, you know. Like any any type of artist is like all that shit looks fancy, all that shit looks really fun and whatever, especially now with social media, you know, where you can like dress it up and make it look like your star and you only got like 300 followers or whatever, you know, or less. Um I think that it's important to like understand that this is going to be difficult. And a lot of the people that are actually successful have been doing it for a very long time. So you're gonna have to like try and try again and fail and fail again. Within that, you also have to make yourself understand that you gotta have thick skin. You cannot be soft where any little thing is gonna make you fly off because you're choosing uh you're choosing a profession that is gonna always keep you in the eye of the public. You're you're putting yourself in a constant place of being under the spotlight. And now even more so with social media. You know what I mean? Like people will get on there and just like, well, I hate this because of this. Well, I don't like this because of that, whatever. And it's just like I just saw your profile. You you can't even do a straight, like a like an actual circle, like a straight line, you know. So that was another thing that I learned early on from another uh professional in the field. Like, he told me before I look at your portfolio, I'm tired. You're one of the last people I'm talking to. I'm gonna give it to you straight up. So if if your feelings get hurt easy, you should probably walk away right now. And I'm like, I'm here for a reason, so let's go. Yeah, I happen to be good enough that he was just like, okay, it won't be as bad. Let's talk about this and this and this. But then he was just like, you know, you have to grow a thick skin, you know. I think it was a metaphor for life as well. Yeah, but having that understanding and choosing to learn early within both of those things will go a massive way towards whether you're successful or not. Like, I think choosing a career as an artist is choosing to be okay with failing a whole bunch. Like, there will be constant failure before you can actually like reach some form of success, and success is relative within whatever your career choice is. But it it's something that you know you have to understand it from the standpoint of like you're choosing, you're choosing the marathon, you know what I'm saying? You're choosing you're choosing to go for a long time because the ones that make it fast, that's not the reality for like the other 98% of people, you know. So from my end, as a self-taught person, that and then just practice, practice and try to learn from everywhere, from everybody. Uh, those would be the main first things that I would tell uh a young person that's trying to start in in this field of illustration, fine art, graphic design, whatever. Yeah, I think I mean I the focus is the same, kind of be okay with failure. But I think the other part is also know that you know, we're professionals. There are people that are older and have been doing it even longer. You don't always see the personal failings to get to this piece that you show the world. So as much as you may be on a certain level, that doesn't mean that you're not still messing up a lot, you know. So to me, for a young artist, I'm like, don't worry about what the final product looks like. Know that everybody, no matter how old you are, no matter how many hours you have into it, you're still not relearning, but you're still having a like it's I always looked at at creating as like a sculpture, right? It's this thing that you have, you haven't seen the final piece and you're just chipping away, chipping away. I'm the type that I'll draw a line and I'm like, nope, erase it. There's nothing else there. I just draw the first line of whatever's supposed to be, and there's an energy that I know I'm trying to evoke and I didn't get it, and I'll erase it like 50 times until I'm like, okay, I see the energy of where I want to go now. That's part of the process, too. So I think people focus on the final um product and the like what it seems to be. It's still a process for everybody, you know. Um, I think the other part is if you focus on just being the best, and and you know, the again, the illusion of it, that can deter you. If you look at it as creating for the sake of creating, there's something there. There's something there for like just experiment. You could start drawing, go sculpt, go dance. If there's an energy that you want to put out and create for yourself, do it for yourself, you know, because you may not do this professionally, you may not put yourself out there. You may, but if it's It's fulfilling you, it's a spiritual thing. You know what I mean? And that would be a shame to lose that part of you. Yeah. Just because you're like, oh well, I'm not as good as oh well, you know, to me it's it's uh if it's an essence, I I don't think that anybody should tell you not to do it. You know, so I think I think sticking with it, find your reasons and then find reasons to keep doing it because you the longer you do it, you can find more reasons. You know what I mean? As opposed to just you stop at the very beginning and you never try again. Right. And honestly, to your point, like creating creating things that are dope to you will always translate from the beginning all the way till the end. Because if you're trying to create just for everybody else, you're also possibly creating for trends and you're never gonna be satisfied both internally within the the holistic spiritual sort of side of this, and you're also never gonna like reach your potential within what you could be doing for the client, for everybody else. You know what I mean? Like I've always created things that I'm just like, well, that's dope shit that I like, so you know, if you don't like it, that's fine, but at least I'll be happy with it. So, you know, to his points, having that sort of like consistent perspective, especially I mean, you know, like social media has changed so much of the emphasis and the weight of all of these points. We could we could have we could have had these same conversations you know 25 years ago before social media even existed, but they're a little even heavier now because of social media, because of the internet.

SPEAKER_03 25:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:34

Oh, and that makes a lot of sense. Um, and then just talking a little bit about, for example, uh, Sammy, how you talked about how you start off with a line, right? So, of course, um we look at a piece, we know pieces have layers to them, right? And there's a process to it. So um with that said, um, can you just um tell us how you approach um a piece of art and how many layers like of course we know you say you start with a line, but how many layers do you think it usually takes you to create a piece? And maybe what's the difference between both both you guys' processes and doing that?

SPEAKER_02 26:05

Um, so you know, I think there's there's digital art as well that comes into this that makes it a little bit different. Like a lot of the stuff recently, I've been working more digital, space, time, money, reasons, and then also just if it's for a client freelance work, then you did it that way. That literally, some of the programs literally have layers, yeah, literally. Yeah, yeah. So if you look at that part of it, it could be hundreds per project. Okay. Um, I think it depends, you know. I think what what's fun about being able to we've done our own thing and we do stuff for clients that if the projects change, so it depends on what it is that you're working on and how many layers you're putting into it. But sometimes I feel like it takes another form as you do it. Yeah, you know, you have one intention and then you're like, oh, let me try that. Oh, let me, you know, so it that in that way it starts stacking. Um I don't know, it really does go project by project, but I feel like more of the um analog route leads to more experimentation. So I think those projects, you cut it kind of breathes a little bit more because it's it can be fun, but also there's that sort of like if I screw up, I screwed up, and it's gonna be a lot harder to take it away than some digital control, zine. So there's uh there's an excitement to that, but I think if you start getting it right, there's always like, oh well, why don't I try this? Oh, why don't I try that? Um it's a process on its own, you know. I think starting it, you know, there's always a like a sketch stage, there's always a rough draft stage. Um and that part for me, I think lately that's the most liberating one. Okay, because you know you can screw up and it really doesn't matter. So the lines are looser, the thoughts are looser. Um and then once you start refining it, then it becomes something else. But I think each stage um has its own thought process and kind of it's its own conversation. I mean, from from my end as far as the process, it you know, I have um I have worked with so many different types of mediums and so many different types of clients and ideas that you kind of have to adapt your process to to the project, to the client, to the canvas. Um you know, I love to draw, I love to paint, I used to sculpt years back, you know, and a lot of a lot of how I start with things is still always diving back into whatever fundamentals that I learned. You know what I mean? Like even if I'm doing graphic design that is boring, because there's a lot of corporate that is boring on the outside, I'm still having to think about things within the fundamentals. And for me, even the boring stuff, I'm still like while I'm creating, so it's still fun for me, you know what I mean? I mean, I've I've only worked on one type of thing that was like just so god awful boring. And it was just like uh it was the the reference part to the back of like a scientific data book, yeah. And it was just like oh man, the the repetition and the monotony of it. That was the first time in my career that I was just like, okay, I don't find this fun at all. I am not creating this. Is just this is horrible. Yeah. Um, but outside of that, you know, it's still going through the process of how are you gonna put this together and you know, composition and color theory and and and and lighting and and I think for me, most of my work is also affected by the fact that my earliest work requires studying and doing things for storytelling. Comic books, graphic novels, there's there's a there's a there's just there has to be a process in order for me to put a story on the page and have the reader actually follow it in such a way that it's just like oh shit, it's easy for me to turn the page because I need to know what's next. You know, there's there's so many technical things that you you gotta keep in mind. And I feel like that affected how every single thing I do, all the way down to just bland-ish graphic design, I'm still telling a story. Yeah, and those principles are still there, you know what I mean? And and and especially if I'm doing my own shit, if I'm doing my own paintings where it's like this is my thought process on this or that, then I can go even harder on that. But still within the the more corporate work, generic work, whatever, I'm still trying to apply those things and I'm still trying to make it into a thing that is like, well, I'm constricted within whatever criteria, but I'm still trying to make sure that that looks better than what the generic stuff is because of this process. And then by this point, it's just there's been so much repetition that it's just like, okay, what what fundamental do I apply first? And then let's go.

SPEAKER_04 31:38

Yeah, and so one of the things I did was um, of course, like I've seen you guys work, like I said, many, many years, right? And it's neat because because you can see, of course, you can see where the influences are there, but you can also see too where you guys have your own differences. Yeah, but even like the corporate pieces I looked at, because I went back um this week just checking out some of the stuff that you had on your site, and I saw even the corporate stuff, there's still a little bit of you could tell where you put a little bit of flair in them, okay. You got to. You got to. So, and I see, and I see like how you try to try to find a way to do that, and I think that's really dope.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

What's your most exciting project that you've worked on?

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Like ever? Mm-hmm. Ever. Wow. See, now you're gonna have us looking back through like books of like we have these conversations where literally like so many like we've been doing this for long enough that like we're like, oh shit, you remember them? Yeah, yeah, forgot about that. I don't know. I mean that's a hard question. Um I look at projects or pieces that like um caused a reaction, a stronger reaction, and that has meant more that's added to the piece. Like I think, you know, we were talking about earlier about bullets and band-aids. The first thing, the first show that we helped set up, uh, like we created the the concept with uh the other founder, Robert Lahoop, who he's now the um the main person running it. But the first show that we did, uh it was at 701 Whaley, it was in a smaller space. And we had done other shows before, but it were like pop art or like we did a comic book with a like CD release party with you know another local artist. And so it was a lot of cool, like fun things. Uh, and we had always done stuff within the fine art world, but that show, seeing like the emotional reactions of people in a very like strong and visceral way, that stood out a lot. It was like I am attached to it wasn't my stories, you know, because it's veterans telling their stories and then the visuals are paired up with it. But because I was a part of it, uh those moments were the first ones that like I understand the the impact of art, you know. Obviously, it's subjective, but because being in it, it's always kind of a lot more focused on like the technical am I getting it right and am I doing whatever? But those moments were really powerful because I'm like, oh, this is how people are moved. And you're just seeing people tear up and you're like, I'm a part of that. So that stands out in that way. Um, and then other projects that are just kind of what he mentioned earlier, like that you see yourself kind of level up, so you're like, oh shit, I just did this thing that I hadn't done that before. So that's really cool. Yeah, but it's moments, not like the full piece, because the full piece I'm still like, I should have tweeted that, I should have done yeah. I don't know about you. I don't know. I mean, for me it's kind of the same. Um I've had fun with most of my projects, you know. Um I love working with music, I love working in the field of entertainment just in however many different ways, you know. Um, and whether it's an amateur or it's a professional that's been doing it for a while, I love being able to connect with that creator. You know what I mean? Yeah. When they're hype about it, I get hype about it. And then a lot of my relationship with creating these projects, whether they're for me or them, also have to do with the fact that um like it also has to do with the fact that like I'm trying to I'm trying to make sure that they do that I'm doing them certain uh uh justice. You know what I'm saying? Like it it's it's something where they are um how do I put it? I wanna like the most bottom line, I want to make sure they're happy. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:39

So so a lot of these collaborations to me are are very much symbiotic, symbiotic kind of relationships for beach. I mean, it has to be. It has to be. I I spent a lot of time talking to them before I even put pencil or paper, you know what I'm saying? Like, because it is like it matters to me that they're happy with it. So the process has been the most like enjoyable part of it. I mean, I I think if you would have asked me this question five years into my career, I could have been way more like, yo, I did this one thing that that that that it was so much fun, yeah, or or or I got so many eyes on because blah blah blah. But because I really do have a hard time remembering all the different things that I've done, it is way more about that connection with both how I feel satisfied and also how people respond. Whether it's a client that I'm like trying to meet them at their level of their vision, or even at a fine art show where it's just like they're like they're connecting on a level that I'm just like I never would have seen that piece of work that way. But they're just like it touched me like this and like this, and I'm like, wow, okay. I mean, I couldn't do it for that, you know, and that's not the meaning of it, but I'm not gonna tell you that because it is about your experience, you know, like art is such a personal thing from one person to the next that that's kind of yeah, that that to this day, that's still so so satisfying and so personal and still so surprising. Because people still surprise me with just you know, I can create something, and I'm just like, yeah, that's cool. But then they're like, yo, this meant to me this and this, and I'm like, I did not expect that. Yeah, you know, uh, so yeah, it's it's something that I hope never dies. But yeah, that that it's kind of been the main experience, and yeah, I wish I could have given you a short answer.

SPEAKER_03 37:45

No, you're fine.

SPEAKER_04 37:47

One thing I am gonna say though, man, I do want to give you guys your um your flowers. Um, in the sense, um, like I said, so of course I've been a part of, like I said, the Columbia arts community in many ways. Like, of course, more more, you know, highlighting stories now recently, highlighting stories artists, but more on the music side before um initially. And you guys have always like, there's always you guys aesthetically, there's always been that presence. So, of course, like with you guys, um, people like Cedric, um, like Dow from Spain, and you know what I mean, and I think and I kind of I consider you guys in that category, like like every time, like 2013, 2014, 2015, like things that are going on are happening in the community. There's always a piece, right? A flyer forward event, right? Or like or a certain piece at a show, right? And like I said, you guys have had your hands in that. I've been involved in that. And so, and that's and that's something that definitely I want you guys to be proud of because, like I said, because years from now, people go back and look at this stuff. And hopefully, when they find some of these things, hopefully find this episode and stuff, they'll be re appreciative of that and stuff. Because you guys definitely put in a lot of work into this community. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

That means a lot. That means a lot. Because we have focused on on community, and we've been doing it for a while that you know it's still the same love. Um we don't we don't do it for the flowers, but it's it's always nice to hear, you know what I'm saying, especially from somebody who's been around where we've our journeys have kind of paralleled at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 39:21

So thank you. Oh yeah, because like I said, it's just it's just and it's like like I said, it's just something it just brings, it's it just gives it just brings the vibes there. And it's like just going back, just even looking back through some of the work, like just going back, looking at some like the little piece of hip-hop work, right? And it just brings back those memories, and it's like, man, I remember, yeah, they did that, right? And then it's like not only that, but then it's like I remember things that might have happened at that event, you know, where working with the kids, you know what I mean, and just doing different stuff. Like it's just it's it's really awesome just seeing all those things and seeing how those things have advanced over the years, like uh like with Soul House, obviously, right? Seeing stuff with Soul House, and I gotta ask you guys this question. Um the Mickey Mouse piece with eyes. Yes, so what's the You just had to bring that up.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

Yes, I had to bring it up. Okay, okay. It's a sister piece, so you could talk about this. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I wanted to sell it definitely as a what is it, as a diptych? Yeah, the two-piece thing. So it's Mickey and those goofy. So that thanks. Those pieces, those pieces came about because um there was a show that was set up by another uh local creative. Um I don't remember where he goes by right now, or what they go by right now. At that point, it was Gage. Set up an art show about childhood ruined. Um so it was grab whatever childhood cartoons or cereal boxes or whatever things you remember and twist it. So I was like, okay, I want to do some horror sexual with Makey Mouse and Goofy, because why not? You know, yeah, so so yeah, I I wanted to I wanted to create texture and I wanted people to look at like I wanted people to like see it from a distance, be attracted to it because you recognize the silhouettes, yeah, and you're just like, oh, this is Mickey. I want to see whatever is different, whatever, you know, this is goofy, and um, and then by the time, you know, which is something that I've done with other pieces throughout, see something from afar, but then bring you closer and closer, yeah. And then make you feel uncomfortable. That's what it is, you know what I'm saying? Like that's exactly the are also bold, yeah. The covers for RPGs. It's dope, though. It's dope, it's dope, but yeah, I like it. Yeah, yeah. So that that that was it, you know. So like, and it was very pop art too. Yeah. So as much as it had more of like a graphic finish to it, it still was a sort of like pop art. You take a, you know, a common piece and then you put your own twist on it, yeah, you know, Banksy along um, I forget some of these other artists, but that they take even the figure, like if it was a 3D figure and then they make it more modern day version of it. That kind of pop art that you recreate commercially recognizable things and then you do your own thing with it.

SPEAKER_04 42:31

Yeah, because I'm gonna tell you what was so crazy about it, because of course um we all know our friend Preach. You know, he had Soul House and recently transitioned over to Cobra Center. Right. But of course, that piece was in there, of course, all the other pieces you guys did. But you know, so last month he did uh he had the live podcast event over there. And you know, of course they got the space upstairs on the third floor. Right. You know, after the end of the podcast, you know, I went on the third floor to look for that piece. Did you? Oh yeah, stop, stop, the pieces are up there. You know, got the pieces up there. Man, I wonder if that Mickey Bowser gets up there. No, I'm like, I'll take it. I don't think it's there.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

He had he had a couple different uh, you know, he would have rented space for different types of meetings and social events, whatever. And he told me that there was one where it was about bringing kids into the gallery, and then there were cameras, and then he forgot about it. So then it was literally like, oh, let's go upstairs and blah blah blah. And then where they decided to set up was with this piece right behind them. And I'm like, yo, you know, like I don't I don't care creating these pieces, you know. I have fun with it, yeah, they make sense to me. That's fine. Yeah, you react to it well, you don't, but I'm also not tone deaf, yeah, you know, where I'm like, I'm gonna do that and then like bring the elementary school there, you know, like I don't wanna deal with that, you know what I'm saying? Like, no, no, like time and a place. Yeah. Um, but there was a couple of times that it happened there, and that there was another one with like some like you know, serious like conservative politicians that apparently had like a presentation in there, yeah, and that piece was in the back. I mean, that one that one was a little bit funnier. That one I kind of like tugged on the on the tie a little bit. Um, yeah, but funny that you bring that up.

SPEAKER_04 44:20

Like I said, it's I appreciate it. I think it's I think it's like I said, it's a powerful piece because it's very it's it, you know, it's very thoughtful, Rogan, right? And it drives you, like you said, like everything you said, that's exactly what it does, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:32

And there's a lot, there's a I mean, without going too much into it, there's enough thought into some of the things that I did that are beyond just the childishness of it. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, there were a couple of things that that were deeper conversations into societal conversations on these types of sexually explicit art and censorship. You know what I'm saying? So I'm fine with all of that. You know, it's just I'm also creating some of those works here in Columbia, South Carolina. Yeah. And it's still in most pockets conservative enough that you know, we're we're we're talking about a late giggling.

SPEAKER_04 45:14

Yeah, you know. Yeah, no, no, it makes sense. It makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

Um I like I like the part that you said art making people feel uncomfortable because it usually makes people feel good. Right. So the fact that you put a twist on that, it's a whole different dynamic.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Yeah. It also was um it was giving love to self-pleasuring. So it was also in that way. Uh I'm trying to add more to it. It was also sex positive about it was sex pleasure. That's right. Both of them, both you know, yeah. Um, layers. You were talking about layers.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

I I know I have a question. As an artist, how do you maintain your clients and the relationships with them over time?

SPEAKER_02 45:55

Um, I mean, so he does a little bit more freelance work than I do. I work at the university for the day job doing graphic design.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

I still have some uh client work, like I did a mural um beginning of this year over at Curiosity Coffee.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

So for mine, it's it's I think lucky enough to have like people know our work and kind of come to us at this point, even in a place here that it's not as bustling. Um but I think it's always still kind of you still have the conversations at the beginning to make sure that the client feels like they're getting what they want, but they trust your expertise. You know, I don't I don't think there's ever been a time that we just come into the room and it's like, well, I'm good at what I do and what I'm gonna pitch is gonna be what you want.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Um, so I think there's enough of understanding that's like, well, if you're coming to us, there's a thing that you like so you can trust where I take chances. Um, but we're also the same thing, kind of with the creative process, open to there's gonna be edits, you know. So it's still this like conversation from the beginning of what do you want? Get as much information from the beginning as possible, questions that they may not be thinking about that you need to know. Um present it. Some projects have been easy that's like it's great, pack it up, let's go, it's done. But then there's others that it's like, well, I don't really like that. And you stay open with it, but still kind of allow yourself to um yeah, bring your knowledge to it and say, hey, this is why this is the decision that was made. Yeah. Without it telling them it it's a you walk them through it and hope that they can see why you you make some of the decisions you do, and that builds trust later on that they'll come back to work with you.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

I was about to say, because editing, I hate to have to go back and be like, um, you want me to edit. So like I was about to say, how do you guys handle the edits?

SPEAKER_02 47:44

I think you a lot of the process of what I've emphasized throughout my career, especially dealing with clients, whether it's an in-house thing, you know, for a pub publication or a different type of article online, illustration, cover work, whatever. It's it's always about a lot of conversation ahead of time. Because I don't wanna waste time. I don't want to waste your time and I don't want you to waste my time. Where it's like, I'd rather talk to you a whole bunch beforehand. You know, we're gonna have a bunch of conversations, make sure that like I capture your vision. Then I'm gonna say, all right, I'm gonna grab reference material and show you what I think it is that you're telling. So then at that point, it's like, if I'm there, then it's like yes, yes, because you know, not a lot of clients are visual.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

Right.

SPEAKER_02 48:39

I can see shit in my mind. Not every person works that way, and I can't expect that. So once I bring the visuals, then it's like, okay, boom, we start tweaking and tweaking and tweaking, and then I'll sketch things out, whatever the project is, you know what I'm saying? So then it's like by the time that I'm actually getting to the final piece, all of that should have been ironed out.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

Right.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

Of course, there's gonna be edits, you know what I'm saying, of some sort afterwards, possibly. But the aim is that before I even get to that place of constructing the final piece, you and I are on the same page in kind of. You know, because then that also protects me afterwards, where it's just like, yo, we talked about this. We talked about this, we talked about this, and now you're changing your mind. Yeah, but now you talk to your partner, and they brought up a this has happened, you know? So it's just like, nah, like I don't want to deal with that, you know. So it it protects me, it protects them, and and it also it also creates a it creates a dynamic of trust. It creates a dynamic of like making sure that they're being taken care of. And usually it works out for the best, you know. It's it's never perfect. I've definitely it's only been like twice, three times that I had to give money back. Because I'm just like, nah, I went through the process, I tried to take care of you, and now you're you're doing something else that we did not agree to. So it's just like, look, you can find somebody else that's gonna meet your vision better than what I can because I tried. Yeah, you know, so yeah, it's it's it's a whole bunch of tweaking, you know. There was a lot of mistakes that I made early where it was just like I should have talked more, yeah. But you know, after after tweaking and tweaking the process, it it has taken care of me, has taken care of them in a more efficient sort of way. But professionalism is also, I think, really important. Sure. Because as much as you can, you know, behind the scenes be pissed about it, people come back to us because we're we're professionals, yeah, yeah. The whole time. It's never personal, it's never emotional. Right. When we, you know, we may have our frustrations, how we talk, the respect we give is consistent. Yeah, and I think that to me that goes a long way with anything that we've ever done. It does because quality, professionalism, and respect. Respect, you know, we're all about respect. I'll give respect, but also like there has to be that in return. And I think that's established consistently enough with anything that we've ever done. Yep. We try to be respectful and professional, and honestly, that has been a big thing that set us apart in my mind from what people tell us after the fact with dealing with us, yeah. So that's a big part of it too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:25

Hey, so I do have um one question before we start wrapping up, and this is one we talked about um with a previous guest. Um, so um, with AI on the rise, um, how do you feel about the future of art in general, especially with the work that you guys do, not just um professional on the personal products, but even some of the um professional work you do?

SPEAKER_02 51:46

Um, I mean, it's definitely causing ripples, it's definitely changing the landscape of how art is created or is communicated, how clients and consumers are trying to use art. You know what I'm saying? Art in this case, because I'm I'm all for technology, I'm all for the use of AI to help us become more efficient, to help us do things in ways that would have taken us way longer before. I don't I'm not of the mind of like this machine is creating art, you know what I'm saying? On top of the idea that this whole thing was set up on uh uh robbery of creatives, you know what I'm saying? Musicians, voice voice actors, you know what I'm saying, visual artists. Um it's yeah, it's all it's all bogus, you know. And and by by now, if if you train your eye enough, you know, you can see exactly where there's just this gross little glaze over whatever. It's gonna keep getting better, you know. So that'll probably go away. Right. But, you know, and and he and I have talked about this, you know, different ways. For me, I have to be concerned about it because it's a realistic thing that's happening. However, I don't think it's going to eliminate actual creatives, actual artists. The human element of what we do as creatives, the the the literal fact that a human being at a certain point can create something brand new that you ain't never seen before, is something that a machine cannot do. Because a machine is literally just copying data off of things that humans have already done. That's true. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's not gonna be a brand new nascent thing from a machine. You know, so I think we're in the middle of rough waters. I think it's changing how we all create. We have to become smarter, we have to become a lot more transparent and genuine within how we do things so that the people that are not creating can understand the clear difference. So I'm not worried about AI taking our jobs. I think a lot of us will lose money, we'll lose jobs in the short term. But I think if we're mindful of the very things that make us unique within the things that we do, we're gonna be alright. You know, that there's there's there's enough people in all kinds of backgrounds and ages that are already seen through the the grift of AI. You know what I'm saying? So the that conversation is gonna just evolve.

SPEAKER_03 54:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

I mean, one thing that he brought up before I even saw it, so like at the day job, I work with a lot more, like at least the core group, it's Gen Zers, right? So like early 20s to mid-20s. And he brought it up first that they're not a fan of AI. A lot of them, in the sense of like, they'll see at least with the arts, they're not in it right with the arts or photography or certain things that it's like, no, I'm not buying it, bring something real. Right. That to me gives me a little bit of hope because that's the newer generation that is not buying into it in some ways, that that gives me hope also of like it may not overtake everything in the way that it seems. Right. Um, I think as a tool, it's great. I think you know, I've used it for if I'm doing a poster and I need an image and it doesn't fit horizontally or vertically, I'll expand the scene. Right. I'll expand parts of the background. Yeah, that to me makes sense because I'm not changing the full picture, I'm just adding trees in the background in a way that saved me three hours. Yeah. So as a tool, like everything else that was new technology, you know, uh Photoshop, things like that, when they first came out, everybody was fearful of like, well, it's gonna take our jobs. I hope that that's the case with this. We'll see, you know. Um, it's a lot of money to be had with AI, so it's not going anywhere. Right. And people want to get rid of jobs, so it they're gonna keep pushing it. Yeah. Um but I think there's enough people that'll have respect for it. I do think there's enough things that you can't, even if it's inputting it, I don't have the mind of how to put the actual a string of words together to get the best. So you still need a creative mind. Yeah, so it's gonna be a part that I think you have to learn it if you want to be in the best creative world, but I don't think it'll take there's job calls out there online for literally oh, I hired an AI artist. Now I need to hire an actual artist to fix this shit that they created so that it looks better. Like that, like that that's out there. Like that is literally like I'm in the search for a professional illustrator or graphic designer that can tweak and help fix some of the issues from my AI image that I created or I hire somebody else that just typed into it. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So it's like what he was saying, you you still gotta have some sort of like skill in order to work this right. Yeah, you know, Joe Blow can type in whatever, but if if they're not seeing things within the expertise, the technicalities, the the things that I might know, that you might know, you might know, you might know. They can't put it and put it in there.

SPEAKER_00 57:20

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 57:20

Yeah, exactly. So, you know, it's it's to be paid attention to, but to me, it's not the scary monster that's gonna just gobble us all up. You know what I'm saying? Like, maybe I'm being naive, but I'm also I'm also on the side of like a machine cannot duplicate the very things that we bring to the table as humans, the unique perspective that you might bring that, you might bring that will make it different just from each other's work. A machine will not be able to do that, you know. So I'm hoping I'm taking a passive approach to just kind of like waiting to see how it goes. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:05

Do you guys have any upcoming works that we can stay tuned for or collaborations?

SPEAKER_02 58:12

Uh we have we were doing these pop-up pop-up series when Soul House had a like a kind of brick and mortar. It was this um, it was called O Snap, and it was or what was it? It was O Snap, right? It was O Snap or Pop Up. A pop-up. And more or less we got a lot of community creators to do like a pop-up uh small market in this space. Uh maybe we'll be able to do something again with Preach and Soul House now that he's collaborating with the Kogar Center. Um that's one of the things that we kind of wanted to keep consistent because it was a good way to also stay within the community. Um, and we always like to collaborate with different people, bring them in, even if you know um they're highlighted and we're not we're putting on the event, but we've always done that cool forever. Yeah. Um, the one thing I'm working on is I'm working on this project that started like 10 years ago, 15 years ago. It's taken different forms, but right now it's gonna be a book, like a published book, where I'm illustrating it.

SPEAKER_03 59:08

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 59:09

Excuse me. It's a book that has like audio components to it. So it's like a retelling of where the wild things are. I did the illustrations, and each page it'll have like a QR code that you scan it, it'll have an actual score composed by the original score. Yeah, so it's two, it's two other collaborators that I'm working with. The guy that created it, he's a professor now at Fresno State. His name is Russ uh Zokates, and then uh Whitney George, she's the one that composed it.

SPEAKER_03 59:36

Excuse me. Okay. She composed it.

SPEAKER_02 59:43

Dried up a little bit. Um, so it's gonna be this kind of uh full score. Every page has a full image and the score to it, and it's like 23, 25 images. So that'll hopefully be coming out in in 2026. Smaller publication, but something that I'm excited to kind of put out there and um see the the latest version of this project that's been going on for like 15 years. So I'm excited about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:08

That is exciting. Yeah, it's a lot of artwork.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:11

That's a lot, yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. My boy's been working, nonstop. Yeah, yeah. Um, I mean, from my end, right now, um I'm I'm bouncing between uh like trying to do in-house work and trying to do freelance work and also setting up my own creator own sort of ideas. So I'm in a I'm in a bit of an in-between stage, but you know, I'll say that like the very next thing that I'm gonna be a little bit more uh involved with. There's a through Soul House at the Koger Center in October. I think it's October 22nd, there's a Colakan anniversary party.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

Uh or not party, but like a show. Um there should be a panel conversation. Uh there's gonna be artwork from this uh British illustrator uh named Dan Lish and several other artists that are gonna be attached to it. Um I'm also working on I I'm trying to put together the time to create these uh two graphic novels that I've just been sitting on for a while. Um so yeah, looking forward to that. I'm trying to uh set up a couple of also concepts for uh fine arts shows to finally create because that's that's been the thing. Like I've been creating for others for so long, whether it's in-house or freelance, that I haven't had a lot of time to create my own stuff. But I'm at that, I'm in that space where it's like it's it's time to create these babies and put them out. Yeah I mean, so hopefully I I can knock out a couple of those things between now and probably end of 2026. Um yeah, so that you know, we're we're always busy. It's just within the hustle, you know what I mean? Um yeah, some things get slowed down, some things you finally get time for, but uh yeah, hopefully a lot of that stuff comes out sooner than later.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:21

So with that said, man, like I said, I just want to um thank the Lopez brothers, Dre and Sammy, for joining us today. I know it's so dope because, like I said, I've known you guys for so long. And one of the things when we started the pod was we were intentional on not talking to people that we knew. Yeah. Right? Because it was like it's so easy to talk to people that you know that you're in community with. And we really want to build it up, um, build, build the platform up to where when we do have those conversations, that it's gonna have much more of an impact.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:50

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:51

And so that's a lot of reason why we waited to have certain conversations when we did. Yeah. And like I said, I just want to just thank you guys just for being patient and of course doing the amazing work that y'all do.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:00

Yeah, thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:02

Um, where can people find you guys or your artwork or get in contact with you or collaborate with you?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:07

Uh, for my end, um website is nine one ninety-onelayers.com. Some of my portfolio work that could take a look there. Um, and then you can find me on Instagram at Sammy Ivan Lopez. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. My um my website is uh dre Lopez Creative.com. And on Instagram, it's probably the main art piece that I use social media wise. So that's uh Infidel Castro X. So it's infidel underscore Castro underscore X.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

All right. Well, thank you guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:46

Thank you both. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:47

Thank you for having us. And that's been the Hilltop Globe Podcast. Peace. Peace.