Speaker 3 1:45

Welcome back to the Hilltop Glove Podcast. Today we had the pleasure of speaking with Terrence Elmore, husband, Author. Always weird when I say that, and then I say it like it's the name Arthur. Um poet Author. Poet and podcaster. Terrence's passion for writing began at an early age. His love for poetry was sparked when he discovered Langston Hughes and the Harlem Renaissance, both of which deeply influenced his work. Terrence's poetry emphasizes themes of love, hope, and inspiration, elements that are especially needed in today's world. He shares his work through his blog, where poetry meets the heart, and through his podcast, The Brown Sugar Cafe Podcast, where poetry meets conversation. Through his words, Terrence seeks to encourage, inspire, and motivate his audience. Every Wednesday, Terrence shares a new poem on his blog, further extending his reach and influence. He has published two books, Pain is Not Our Only Paintbrush, and The Essence of Love, both available on Amazon. These works reflect his journey to spread love, hope, and inspiration in a world that often seems filled with discouragement, hopelessness, and hate. Terrence is a proud graduate of Benedict College and House, where he earned a degree in physics. That was really interesting. His educational background complements his creative endeavors, offering a unique perspective that enriches his writing. Terrence believes that while your message may not resonate with everyone, it is sure to touch someone. Stay tuned as we explore where art and poetry collide with Terrence Elmore, a beacon of hope and positivity and a challenging world. How are you doing today, brother?

Speaker 3:33

Man, I'm doing all right, man. How y'all doing? I'm doing a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 3:36

Awesome, awesome, awesome. He beat us here this morning, y'all. He's fast. Perfect, right? He's fast.

Speaker 3 3:41

I was like, hey, who's out here? The Corvette drive of the day. I said, okay. I'm not never angry at that. That's always a positive thing. We actually started early today, y'all, so clap. Yeah, on a cold, on a cold November day. So awesome. We're so happy to have you with us today. Um, how was your drive up?

Speaker 3:58

It was nice. It was nice. Um, usually traffic is a little thicker. Yeah, that's what I said. For some odd reason it was smooth. Yeah. But really appreciated that.

Speaker 3 4:07

Good, good. The people treated you well. Yeah. No one's trying to collide into you. Good, good, good. Awesome. Well, obviously, you've seen our podcast before. You know how we operate. We got to give you that first question. The question we get to everybody. You're prepared, correct? I'm ready. Awesome. So, could you tell us a little bit about your upbringing, just for our listeners who aren't familiar with you and your work, and what it was it like growing up?

Speaker 4:29

Well, I grew up in the Charleston area, um, Charleston, Somerville, Goose Creek area. So life in a low country was fun. Um you know, we didn't have a care in the world, but beating the street light home. Um, spent a lot of time with my cousins growing up and just hanging out, and um, family was always important to me. Like that was always driven to me, like family is important. So um, my mother always made sure that I saw my uh her aunts and uncles and their kids, her cousins. I mean, we grew up like siblings because that's just how close we were. And of course, like my cousins, my first cousin, we grew up like siblings as well. Um, it just family was just big, man. Uh I always enjoy getting together with my cousins, my relatives, um, and just enjoying life, man. Things were so much easier when we were kids. Like, all we had to do was wake up and go to school, and summertime I do is wake up and go play, go play basketball.

Speaker 3 5:29

Stop saying that, man. Making it feel like we're old. Stop saying that like that.

Speaker 5:33

Dang.

Speaker 1 5:34

Dang. Was it really so much simpler? Are you only child?

Speaker 5:39

No, I'm the oldest of my mother's kids, so I'm the big brother. Oh, okay. Hey, okay. Okay. I always wanted little brother and sister. I always wanted to be big brother, you know. Um, I think it's because I have an older cousin who I saw like my brother, and I thought it would be cool to be like an older brother, so yeah.

Speaker 3 5:59

You didn't shy away from the responsibility.

Speaker 6:01

No, no, and this trickled into my adulthood as well because I'm looked at as big brother to a lot of people. So I guess that's one of the things I didn't know would, you know, be a part of my life.

Speaker 1 6:11

Yeah.

Speaker 6:11

That's awesome.

Speaker 1 6:12

What um high school did you go to?

Speaker 6:14

I went to Stratford High School. Okay.

Speaker 1 6:16

With the fours.

Speaker 3 6:17

Oh. Um Yeah. Um, I know. That's what I was about to say. Wow. All right, competition right there, competition in the house. Y'all funny. Ain't nothing wrong with that. Um, so like, what was it growing up with your siblings being the oldest? Um, how was it leading them through what was going on growing up as children?

Speaker 6:38

Well, first of all, there's that responsibility to make sure that it's good. And like, if something they did something wrong, I would be held responsible because you know you're the oldest, so you're supposed to make sure. Always watching. Yeah. And not thinking that, you know, they're children too. And I'm a child, so if they're not gonna listen to y'all, how are they gonna listen to me? Right. Yeah. But I did my my best to enforce and watch out for them. And I'm still like that to this day. Like, I want to make sure they're good. But yeah, yeah, being a big brother, it was a lot of responsibility, but it was a lot of fun. Yeah.

Speaker 1 7:10

How far is the age gap?

Speaker 7:12

Like uh a couple of years or a couple of years. So I was six when my sister was born. Okay. And my brother, he was born probably a year, I think they're like 19 months apart, something like that. Okay. So they're close in age. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 7:27

That's an interesting question, especially as millennials. It's like how how we grew up, it's different from what they're doing nowadays.

Speaker 7:34

Very different.

Speaker 3 7:35

Very different. And then you, especially being the elder sibling. I have an elder sibling. It's funny that you say that because, like, yeah, he was responsible. Um, I had to go. He everywhere he went, I had to go. So it keeps you from being able to do certain things, which is a good thing too. Like, because you can't bring little brother into the spot and get him banged up. And then he would tell. Yeah, I snitch. I'm a snitch. Yep, I'm a snitch. That's what I do.

Speaker 1 7:59

The age gap is is is kind of crucial when you want the oldest child to watch over the youngest child because it's like, you know, I can't be watching over you if I'm the same age as you.

Speaker 3 8:08

Yeah, it doesn't work. There's gonna be no respect.

Speaker 1 8:10

There's no fear, there's no respect.

Speaker 3 8:12

Oh, say it again. What's that for fear?

Speaker 1 8:14

Yeah, you gotta have you gotta put fear in it.

Speaker 8:16

Did you have to use fear to sometimes uh control the aspects of Nah, uh, I would say I use more of a um like a reward approach. Okay. Like, you know, if y'all do this, then we can do that. Because my thing growing up was always like I did what I had to do so I could do what I wanted to do. And so, like, if we had chores and stuff to do, I'm like, it's three of us. If we work on this together, we can get this done faster and we can do all the other stuff. So that was me. Motivator. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 8:46

That's good, man. That's good. That's good to hear.

Speaker 1 8:48

I was the bribe type. I'm the bribe type, like I do mine and you don't get yours done. Yeah, then I'm gonna bribe you to be my slave for the day. Oh gosh, tomorrow. Do yours, but I'm gonna bribe you, you know. Right. I didn't know that was what was going down. The bribes. Yeah. Middle child.

Speaker 3 9:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like middle child put you in a weird spot. So yeah, we're in a weird spot. Yeah. Yeah, we don't always get, yeah, we have to do some weird things to survive. Weird we're middle children are different. Um, uh the one thing I do, this third question that's here, and I was waiting to get this one because I love this statement. I love this statement. And you being a wordsmith, understand that words matter, and the right words matter most of all. I love that words matter thing. I tell people that all the time, they think I'm crazy. I'm like, no, words matter, no, these words are serious. Can you explain the importance of speaking positively about yourself and the benefits of expressing your thoughts and feelings creatively through your works?

Speaker 9:49

So, growing up, I always was told that the power of death and life are in the tongue. Yes. And so that stuck out to me because I noticed when I would say certain things, they would happen. And people would say you like jinxing, but I was like, nah, you're actually bringing it to fruition. And it really, really sunk home like when uh Red Fox died. Oh. Because he always said on San Francisco Son that he was having a heart attack. Yeah, Elizabeth. Yeah, and so that's when it really click, click, and I was just like, our words have power. Because one of the things that I thought was so weird growing up when people would say um sticks and stones may break your bones with words and never hurt me. But like words hurt, words have power. And I think when people would kind of minimize that by saying words, you know, don't have power. And that caused people to compartmentalize and hold things in and try not to express themselves, even though those words hurt, because words are very powerful. So I've always been the person to try to speak positive things about myself. And you know, of course, occasionally you have those thoughts, but then I immediately just shut that down and just speak positive because you know, once you get into a rhythm of speaking positive, those things just start to flow. And so that's why I think that's important. Like you can't just yeah, you're not gonna have a good day every day, but you have to speak positively because something positive is happening at the same time, no matter what's going on. Yeah, I agree with you on that.

Speaker 1 11:19

I have a question. So, like, if when you're having a bad day, how do you change it by your thoughts or your words?

Speaker 11:26

So first I sit with it and I'm just like, all right, I'm not gonna let this discontinue. And so I just start thinking about positive things. Like, okay, my day might have started off rough, but I woke up this morning. When I got up, I was able to stand on two feet and two legs and walk, things like that. Just small things. People think it's trivial, but like if you think about you open your eyes, when you open your eyes, you're able to see. You're able to walk, you were able to go take a shower, you were able to, the lights were on, the water was on, different things like that. And you start thinking about those type of things, you're like, I really have a lot to be thankful for. I have a lot to be grateful for. Like, okay, yeah, the day isn't going well. Every day is not gonna go well.

Speaker 4 12:07

Right.

Speaker 12:08

Then that's first of all, you have to realize that the everyday is not gonna go well, but how you address those days, it makes a difference throughout the rest of the day. Because I've, man, it's been many times where my day started off great and just one or two things throw it off. And then I have to catch myself, and I'm just like, okay, this may be some bad news or this may be a bad situation, but it's not as bad as I'm trying to allow it to be. Because if you allow it to be, it will be if you just harper on it all day. And sometimes we worry about things that we have no control over, or we worry about things that are small, but it's just that it threw our routine off. Yeah, and then you let it get your whole day down, and the next day you're thinking, like, man, that wasn't even a big deal, but I let it ruin my whole day. Yeah, so I always snatch myself back quickly, and I'm just like, it's not that serious. And I like to laugh, so sometimes, like, like if I'm having like a situation or whatever, I'll just start laughing about it, and I'm just like, man, it's not even that serious. Don't sweat the small pretty much. Yeah.

Speaker 1 13:12

When you said snatch yourself up, I don't know why I thought of Mortal Kombat. Get over here! Snatch them. Because you know, sometimes you you really do harp on it, you'd be like, oh man, I'm still mad. It happened eight o'clock this morning. Are you still mad at five o'clock in the daytime?

Speaker 3 13:27

I have the devil, devil's advocate on this because I know this is the one thing that I I do here always always in rebuttal to that. Because I'm not not a I'm not a happy go-lucky guy, but I like to stay positive. It doesn't matter what's happening. Look for positivity and things. But folks say, well, if you don't um understand that you have these these sad hurt pain feelings, then you can't develop as a full and total human. How do you feel about that?

Speaker 13:54

So you I'm not saying to ignore those feelings, and I think that's the misunderstanding that people get when they hear you say be positive, they like just ignore what's happening, because that's the worst thing you could do. Because if you ignore it, those things build up. True. But you have to understand that like what's happening now doesn't make or break you. And even those situations where it potentially can, yeah, it's how you handle it, is what's gonna make your outcome better. So I'm just like, yeah, you you know you can't control everything, but if something is sad, it can't, you can't let it just overtake you and overtake your day. You sit with it, come up with a plan. If a plan needs to be had, um I think that's a big part to come up with a plan. Yeah, if you need help, reach out to somebody who can give you some help if you need to talk to somebody about it. Because a lot of times just talking to somebody about something, it makes it go away, or oftentimes I find that like the person might not even have advice for you, but you talking about it out loud, you start to think about things you could do to turn it around. And it's just like, oh man, thank you. And the person will be like, I I didn't say anything. Yeah, but thank you for listening. For listening, but the brainstorming.

Speaker 1 15:03

Yeah, yes, a release. So with poetry, is that your form of art or release? You just release everything onto the pen and pad.

Speaker 15:12

Yeah, so one time in particular, when um, and that's how Pain is not our only paintbrush, kind of how that whole thing started, was like we were going through the pandemic, and then when George Floyd was murdered, I like I couldn't explain how I was feeling. Like I told my wife, I was like, I'm not okay. I don't know how to put it into words. And you know, I'm from the era where I saw Rodney King on TV and riots and stuff on TV, and the stuff that we seen over the years. So sad to say, it's like we've seen this before. So it as it should bother us, but it shouldn't have been so. But it was something about it that just took me to a place.

Speaker 3 15:54

I think it was the vitro the it was the way that it was shown. Ronnie King was in VHS, grainy tape. This was high definition. You're watching him ask for his mom as he's yeah, it was a different situation.

Speaker 16:07

Yeah, yeah. And so that hit me, and so I prayed about it, and each time I prayed about it, I just kept hearing write. And so I started writing. And the more I wrote, I started feeling better. Because I got my emotions out. Because for a while I had been writing, you know, positive things, things because you know, most of my poetry I share with people, and so it had been a long time since I had written stuff just to kind of like get emotions out. And so I just started writing and writing and I felt better because I was able to release and I was like, wow, like something that I do all the time in that moment, that's what helped me.

Speaker 3 16:46

That's that's big, that's a big thing. I I'm happy that you you um spoke specifically about that because obviously with all the weird things that we got going on right now in the country, have have you been writing specific things to reflect on those societal changes?

Speaker 17:04

Not specifically, but I've been writing um more uplifting things kind of like I guess like we can't s let what's happening take us away from what we're doing, or we can't let what's happening take our joy. And like there's still hope. So my poems I do on Wednesday, the last couple of weeks they've been more geared towards hope. And like, yeah, it may look bad, but there's hope at the end of the tunnel. And like, like I said earlier, like there's still good things happening, even though these things are happening that aren't so positive, there's still good things happening, and don't let this distract you from those good things that are happening. I agree. Like, it's so easy to get taken off course because of something negative you see, and these people are still enjoying themselves, having a good time. Preach. And you're sitting over here upset, it's like you're upset by yourself, and now you're not doing what you're supposed to do. Yeah. So it's like I've been writing stuff to kind of remind people of that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 18:03

Because most poetry is uh, you know, some people you know like uplift people, but some people, you know, just pour it all out. It's sadness, it's rage, it's anger, it's all types of ways to release it. Now, would you encourage someone to write it down and then burn it? Oh, some people say that they say that it's a release. Like, have you ever tried that?

Speaker 18:25

No, I've written things and haven't reread it for like years or at all. But I was talking to a writer probably about a year or so ago, and he said that he goes back over the things he wrote as kind of like a benchmark to see where he's gone. Yeah, see those emotions and stuff, and I was like, that's a good idea, because yeah, we use those things to kind of you know, writing to get stuff out, and you want to forget about it, but it's I think it's a good idea to go back and look over and see where you are, where you've come. And sometimes you may be in a similar situation, and reading that could remind you, like, yeah, look at all the stuff that I did after this. Yeah, it's not that serious. So I would say don't burn it. At least keep it. You don't have to look at it, you know, next week, week after that, a year from now, but you never know. I say keep it.

Speaker 1 19:21

So my follow-up question is how many journals do you have? Two.

Speaker 19:25

Like, yo, you keep them. Oh, yeah, you ain't burn them.

Speaker 1 19:27

Writers have a lot of journals.

Speaker 19:28

Yeah, I have a lot of different notebooks, um, different groups of papers in notebooks. I don't know how many there are. How do you store them? Um, they're not in one place. I can tell you that. Like, they're just in different places, like in different boxes and things. Because I've come across some stuff that I don't even remember writing. Like recently, my parents found some stuff that I had from when I was a kid, and it's like some writings in there. Like I wrote a poem for my mother on Mother's Day. I believe I was in middle school. And reading it at first, I'm like, I don't remember writing this, but when I got near the end, I'm like, oh yeah. So it's just like my stuff is everywhere. Wow.

Speaker 3 20:11

Yeah. Are you to the point now where I remember uh again just going saying like, oh, we feel like like we're feeling old or something, but I remember hearing like my uncles and stuff, they said, Man, I done I I I forgot more than than than you know at this moment.

Speaker 20:25

Are you to that point now where you f where you feel like you're forgetting more than no, I I can't say that because I have a very good memory. It's just some things, and I guess because I was at that point where I thought like all my stuff from my childhood was lost.

Speaker 2 20:40

Yeah.

Speaker 20:41

And so I just kind of pushed past it. But I mean, it was like a lot of stuff that they found, like some old baseball cards, basketball cards, some baseball coins and stuff that I had just put out of my mind that I had, because you know, if you're never gonna see these things again, there's no need to harp on and be like, man, I had this and had that. But after opening those boxes and looking at them things, the memories came back. And I remember things from when I was a kid, like it was yesterday. So I thankfully I'm not there where I'm forgetting stuff, so I can't say that. Good, good, good, good.

Speaker 3 21:13

Um dealing with the market of poetry, writing, and becoming an author, an author. I keep trying to say this like it's a person. Be quiet. Um would you say, especially nowadays, with the ability to put yourself out there, publish quickly, move, and I mean whatever it is, it's not much of a screening process anymore. Do you feel that the market is saturated and that to succeed or to be seen, you have to be a special type of talent?

Speaker 21:50

I don't think, well, it is saturated, but I think there's room for everybody. And I don't think you have to be a special type of talent. I think you have to be true to your voice and not try to write things because you think it's gonna be popular, or a lot of people are gonna gravitate to it because a lot of people can see through fakeness. Like you're just writing this because this is the hot thing right now. But what are you gonna do when that trend dies off? Because trends die off fast. Like nowadays, it's like a couple of days the next thing is happening. So you gotta stay authentic. And it's man, it's an audience out there for everybody. One of the examples that I saw a long time ago is like bread. Like if it was that serious about you not making your your product or putting your art out there, look at a bread aisle. It's like so many different types of bread, and it's the whole aisle, some stores you go in. That's true. So each person has a particular type of bread that they like. And it's been times we've gone in the store and seen bread that we would not normally buy, but we were curious about it and we bought it. So it's just like it's always a room for you, even though the market is quote unquote saturated, it's always room for you in your art.

Speaker 3 23:02

Now, add-on question Have you felt that you jumped on a trend before, unwittingly, or not by by mistake, or not trying to per se, but you jumped on a trend because of requests, I guess?

Speaker 23:16

Um I don't think so. Because when I started sharing my poetry, my poetry was more geared towards love because love was untrendy. And people were saying all these negative things about love, and you know, love hurts, and I'm just like, love doesn't hurt. And every time I ask somebody, well, how does love hurt? They always name a person. And I'm just like, that's not love, that's that person. And I always Equated to like say a drunk driver hit somebody, they don't say that the car hit the person, just like the driver hit the person. So I look at love as the vehicle, and whoever hurt that person, they weren't supposed to be operating that vehicle. So I wanted to put out there that love is beautiful things, positive things. So I guess I was on the untrendy side when I was writing about that. And then like it evolved into like positive things. Like love is still there because the root of everything I do is love is there.

Speaker 4 24:15

Yeah.

Speaker 24:15

But I wanted to go more towards motivation to pull people out of like whatever, because love wasn't the only thing that had people down. It's just like day-to-day stuff had people down. Yeah. So I wanted to encourage people. So I guess I would say I was on the untrendy side, and then like there was this whole movement where love was a thing. Or I could even say like um The trend found you. Yeah. Yeah, like uh especially during Valentine's. Yeah. Oh yeah. That always picks up. So I guess that would be the time where I'm on the trendy side, I guess you could say. Man, you're good with your words.

Speaker 3 24:46

Yeah. I tell you, that I know that sounds like, well, that's what you're supposed to mean, but still, it doesn't matter. Sometimes people say they and they yarn. No, you're good with your words, man. I like how you explain that. That was an awesome way to explain it.

Speaker 1 24:57

But can you talk about the process of each book, uh the publishing, like any hardships you faced? I want to get to the nitty-gritty stuff. Like so the boring stuff.

Speaker 25:08

I just had this conversation with the author for my podcast. And we were talking about like that first book.

Speaker 4 25:15

Yeah.

Speaker 25:15

Like writing it and stuff is exciting, but then it becomes like taskful when you're doing the formatting and trying to decide, you know, where you want to place things, the cover. And then when you're done, you it's like a sigh of relief, but then you realize like you're not actually done because the process is starting. Because now you have to promote your book. You have to put your book in front of people's faces, you have to let people know you have a book. But like with writing this first book, I learned a lot because I did everything myself from like the cover, the formatting, and it was a lot. Like when I was done, I was like, whoo! But then I was like, no, you gotta promote your book. So I learned from that experience, like with my second book, it was easier because I had done it before. But then I wanted to level up on my third book. I wanted to make it different because my first two books just have words in it. And so paint is not our only paintbrush. I wanted to add some color. So the cover is dark, but when you open it inside, it has like a bunch of color.

Speaker 4 26:21

Oh, wow.

Speaker 26:21

So I had to reach out to somebody to format the book like that. Um I came up with this concept. Well, in fact, the cover for this book was just something I just threw together because I wanted people to know I had a book coming.

Speaker 2 26:36

Yeah.

Speaker 26:36

And I had a whole different idea for the cover, but everybody was like, oh, I love the cover. And I'm like, that's that's not the cover. It's like it's just a holder, it's a teaser. Everybody. So I asked one of my um. It's a demo version. Right. I like the demo. That's what it was. And everybody was like, Oh, I love it. I was like, oh man. I sort of asked my boyfriend, uh Will Davis. I was like, man, what do you think? Because he's you know in the arts and layering and graphics and stuff like that. And he was like, Yeah, it is dope. He was like, I would just add like a uh paint stroke across it.

Speaker 4 27:09

Yeah.

Speaker 27:09

And I was like, that's what I'll do. And that was the only thing that I added that was different than the original thing. And it's like, it's weird how you think something is it, and then when you present it to other people, it's like they're like, yeah, that's okay. But then this other thing that you just threw together, they love it. And so that's what I learned. And even with like my first book cover, it was kind of plain to me. It was just a white cover, and then I noticed when I did like book signings and things like that, more people gravitated towards the one with the color. And I don't know if it was coincidence or not, but I was like, let me just add some more to it to make it look more, and I noticed I get more of an equal, you know, reaching out for it, and people are kind of picking it up more. But those are different things I learned, like writing a book, and it it's a fun process, but then again, it's that work aspect of it. It's like, how many, if you're doing poems, how many poems am I gonna put in the book? Right. Yeah, when am I gonna stop? Yeah. Because when you write, you know, you it's never done, quote unquote, in your mind. Because there's things I've written in these books that I read now, and I'm like, I could have said that differently. It's like, should I do a second edition and write it all over again, or should I just leave it alone? Oh, that's hard. So that's always running through your mind. It's like it's it's complete, but it's never done. And you have to tell yourself, that's it. Like these are um whatever however many poems that you're gonna put in a book, I'm I'm gonna stop here. I'm not gonna revise these anymore, I'm not gonna change it. This is it.

Speaker 1 28:46

What is it when you get someone to read proof it and stuff like that? Yeah, you're editing. The editing, yeah.

Speaker 28:53

So when it's different when you're doing poetry compared to a regular book. So anybody, you have to make sure you find somebody who specializes in poetry. Because I've had somebody look at my book that was just an editor or a proofreader.

Speaker 3 29:07

And you got creative license, you're doing poetry.

Speaker 29:09

Yeah, and they were kind of dissecting it in a way, like I wrote a haiku and they were saying something about the form. I'm like, it's a haiku, it's supposed to be written in different poetic forms. They had something to say about. I'm like, that's this is this is poetry.

Speaker 2 29:23

Yeah.

Speaker 29:24

So I found somebody who did like poetic um proofreading, and um, she was an English teacher. I found her on Fiverr, and she was really good.

Speaker 3 29:33

Shout out to Fiverr because it was a good thing. Very good resource to use for creators who are looking to get things done at a good price.

Speaker 29:41

She, I mean, she gave me these links to different poetry um workshops and different things, and she gave me suggestions about how I could elevate some of my poems, but she didn't try to rewrite them.

Speaker 4 29:53

Okay.

Speaker 29:54

And so that's good too, with like poetry, like having somebody who can tell you, you know, give you another way to look at it as a suggestion, but not actually try to change your words.

Speaker 2 30:03

Yeah.

Speaker 30:04

Because that's very important. Like, I've seen people try to actually change someone's poem, and it's almost like steal their soul. Like you can write your own poem if you want it to be this this way. Like, this is this person's poem, this is what they they feel. So you can't change how they feel just to fit your narrative or you because you think it's uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 30:27

Well, what about the the publishing? Like uh I know some people have a problem with the publishers and they want to change it, certain colors, the theme, hardback, softback. Is it uh appeasing to the audience?

Speaker 30:41

So I self-published my books, and it wasn't because you know, some people say that they've submitted their stuff to publishing companies, and that was just never a thought to me because I just wanted to get my stuff out there.

Speaker 2 30:54

Okay.

Speaker 30:55

Like I just wanted, like for this first book, you know, Love Letters, I just wanted to get out of there. Because like I said, I was on a mission to show people that love was this beautiful thing, so I just wanted to get it out there. And because I had so much success doing it that way, I just continued to do it. And so, interestingly enough, um, recently Marcus Amaker, who was the first Port Laureate of Charleston, his bad boy, his bad boy. All his books are self-published, and he's done all this stuff self-published. So some people try to look at being self-published as like this minimal thing, and it's like you're not doing what you're doing. Some people say you're not like a real author, but that's that's not true.

Speaker 3 31:35

I was about to ask you too, just with in the publishing side, because I I know this part about it, is the your ownership over it, and then the the monies that are made from it. So for instance, like you can sell your work to a publisher, you can get a deal, right? And then you make your money, and then from there they're selling off of your book. When you're self-publishing like this, what vehicle do you use to put it into the market so that you can receive call um care um money back?

Speaker 32:03

So in my first book, I used um KDP publishing, which is Amazon. Yeah. And it's a print on demand. And I did that with my second book too, but somewhere between the time of my first book and my second book, like bookstores became, I guess because of the explosion of self-publishing, especially during the pandemic, yeah. Everybody was starting podcasts, writing books, and doing stuff they didn't normally do, but it was quick and just thrown together. And so bookstores were saying like your books had to be on Ingram Spark as well, so they can order it from there. And that also gives them the option to send back whatever. Whether they don't sell. Yeah. And so I decided to do this book, my third book, on Ingram Spark, because it could be available to bookstores. That's it. And I get a percentage, the percentage is higher, of course, if um, because I always order copies and then I sell them on the website smart people. Okay, smart. But if they get them from Amazon, of course, the percentage is lower.

Speaker 3 33:04

And if they get taking all your money off of work and hard and sweating, tears, stuff you put into Amazon Me, they're getting you. No, this is for real. I was actually listening to this guy talk about this. My fault. I was my fault. This is I says gentlemen, he produced this book and he was trying to explain to people why he was asking the cost that he was asking for the book. Yeah. And they're like, well, you're trying to like railroad us. And he was like, no, I'm gonna tell you why. And so he showed the folks, like, this is how much work I put into all the work that I did to get this published and moving. This is how much Amazon's taking from it. And so he's like, that's why I asked for this money, then I asked for the book, so that I can actually make some profit off of it. I get it.

Speaker 33:40

Yeah, because you gotta think about it, you gotta when you buy it, like don't use Amazon's ISBN because they essentially own your book. Yep. So you have to buy your own ISBN, that's money. Um, to get it copyrighted, that's money. Preach. Um, if you're looking out for artists for your cover, that's money. Paying somebody to format it if you want somebody to format it a certain way, that's money. And so you're paying a lot, and then if you have color in your book, that's more money. Yeah, yeah. People are seeing this book and they're thinking, like, okay, why is this book, let's say, twenty dollars and it may only have a couple of pages in it in their eyes? It's like having to spend so much money to do this, if I were to sell it like a lower price, I probably wouldn't even break even. So that's the thing you gotta think about too. And then when you're pricing your book, you want to also think about like people in your market, like with poetry, like this book here has a lot of color and whatever. And some people probably say it, like, yeah, you could probably charge like $30, $40. I don't feel comfortable charging $30, $40 for a paperback book. Gotcha. To me, I'm like, that's it's just too much. Yeah. Like, yeah, I wouldn't buy a paperback book for paper. For $30, $40, yeah. Yeah. And then you see other books that are hardbacked books or book with books with a book sleeve that are have more pages and they're like under $30.

Speaker 3 35:05

Yep, $25. Yeah.

Speaker 35:06

So it's like you gotta think about that too. Like, I know you want to make your money back, but don't try to hit people in the head just for the sake of trying to make your money back. It has to make sense. Yeah.

Speaker 3 35:16

And then if you don't sell anyway, because the price point's so hard, it doesn't matter. Speak.

Speaker 35:20

That's another thing too. Yeah, you push people away when you because when I've gone to author events, I also sell my books lower than on the website. Like my first two books, I sell them $10 if I'm at an event, and this book $15, of course, because it has color and stuff in it. Yeah. And I've been to events where I've almost sold out, and here other people they haven't moved their books as much because they're trying to increase the price of their books because they're trying, I guess, cover the vendor fee if they're. Oh, yeah. And just I'm like, no, you can't do that. Because I got advice from an author. Um, this was during the pandemic, and he's a children's book author, and he said that when he goes places with his books, he never sells them over ten dollars. And he said some of the children's books he has, he doesn't sell over five dollars. Now he said his books stayed the price on the website. And he said a lot of times people will say, Oh, I'll just get it from your website, but then they miss out on that opportunity to get it right. And so, and it's a lot of people do they stick with their word and they'll go ahead and buy it from the website, but you just gotta keep that in mind. I hate seeing people with books that may only have like 60 pages and then this book is like $30.

Speaker 1 36:30

I'm just like, come on, man. You gotta pivot sometimes. Yeah, but that's yeah.

Speaker 36:34

Your information is valuable. I'm not trying to discredit everybody's information, but you can't follow what maybe a famous person does. Because if there's a famous person who writes a book that we're interested in, nine times out of ten, we don't even care about how much it costs. We want the book. Yeah.

Speaker 2 36:48

For the cachet.

Speaker 36:49

Yeah. But some people, you know, they don't they don't know who you are. Um, they don't know anything about you. So to expect somebody to spend that much for a book just because you say here I have a book, it's not realistic.

Speaker 3 37:01

You gotta earn that person's trust through your work.

Speaker 1 37:03

Can you talk about um, you know, getting your books in like local bookstores? How do you go about doing that?

Speaker 37:09

Uh contacting them. Uh my books were in all good books. I had a book released there, and they bought some of my books and they have them in there. So you have to do the groundwork with that too. I'm glad you asked that. Have to do the groundwork with that too. You have to contact bookstores. Um, you have to get people involved to ask for your books at these stores. Because, you know, sometimes just because you have a book and you reach out to them and you let them know about it, they might not necessarily pick up your books, but if there's a demand and people asking for them, because I go to small bookstores, I'm not trying to go to Barnes and Noble's and Books of Mays and try to get my books in there, like I deal with like small bookstores. And you have to understand that I mean, a lot of people don't go in bookstores anymore. Nope. Um reading, you know, paperback books or hardback books, you know, tangible books is coming back, but most people now, audiobooks, um Kindle Kindle. Come on, audible, yeah. That's where they're at. So you have to think about that too. But I've reached out to, like, like I said, I went to all good books, they have my books in there, and that's basically what you have to do. You have to mark yourself. Uh, another conversation I had with that author, we were talking about how people think they can be an author and just make it.

Speaker 2 38:23

Yeah.

Speaker 38:24

But the chances of that is one in a million because be becoming an author is the first step.

Speaker 2 38:29

Yeah.

Speaker 38:30

Now you have to become a speaker. Now you have to show up at different events, now you have to do different things. Like, those are the people who become like really famous from being an author. And then like some of the authors that I like, I found out like the book that I heard about them from, like the book that put me on in them, was like their third or fourth book for each. And it's just like, you wrote all these books before, but I'm just hearing about you now. So it's just like that work and just going constantly with that. It's not just being the author, it's like you have to be so many other things. Your book gets you in the door, but now you have to be ready to do other things.

Speaker 3 39:03

Usually further, you gotta become a public persona in order. Yes. And that's the part that's hard. Very hard. Ooh, question.

Speaker 1 39:10

It kind of goes into our next question.

Speaker 3 39:11

I gotta ask this before we get to the next question because we're talking about this. Have you have you um taken any of these uh books and converted them into audio? Have you recorded yourself reading?

Speaker 39:22

Why would you ask me that?

Speaker 3 39:23

That's what we're here to do.

Speaker 39:25

Yeah, you gotta take the voice. Yeah, I'm gonna say, yeah. I'm supposed to do that with this one. Okay. I'm supposed to do that. Uh because my first two, I have a Kindle version.

Speaker 2 39:37

Okay.

Speaker 39:38

This one, I said no, I'm not gonna do a Kindle version. I'm gonna do an audio version. I just hadn't recorded it yet, so that's the plan.

Speaker 3 39:44

You're gonna let us know as soon as you drop it, right? I'm gonna use your words, I'm gonna play it for my wife. Like, that's that's yeah, yeah. Right there from the heart. From the heart, yeah, yeah. You're like, that's so smooth. I like, I know it is, right? I know it is.

Speaker 4 39:56

But next question.

Speaker 1 39:58

So you kind of talked about, you know, pivoting, you know, with the career goals, but can you tell us the importance of it, rerouting your career goals to get to to align with your future?

Speaker 40:07

So whenever you're doing anything, whether it's writing, um, art, singing, producing, creating anything, you have to level up. And not to say what you're doing now isn't great, you know, because you have that fan base, you have that audience of people who like what you do. Yeah. But you have to be willing to take it a little further. Like if your thing is painting flowers, people love your paintings of flowers. Say one day you decide to paint some fruit, people start loving that. Now you have a whole new audience over here, people who love the fruit paintings, and then I saw happen to Claude Nonet.

Speaker 3 40:43

Went from painting fruit to painting flowers and it made them bigger.

Speaker 40:46

See, it's like you wouldn't know that unless you do it. So it's like, don't be afraid, like you don't neglect your audience, but don't be afraid to like step up and do things. Like, I'm currently working on a uh novel, a novella. I hadn't decided what it is yet, but that's different for me compared to poetry. And so it's like when you're writing, you don't want to do the same thing, but then you want to be so far out there to where you lose your audience and everybody all together, nobody knows what you're doing.

Speaker 2 41:17

Yeah.

Speaker 41:17

You know, I mean, don't be afraid to take those risks, but at the same time, you just got kind of gotta be calculated risks. Yeah.

Speaker 3 41:23

At least some breadcrumbs.

Speaker 41:24

Yeah. Exactly.

Speaker 1 41:28

How are you dead? Are your books dedicated to anyone?

Speaker 41:31

Um, I dedicate all my books on my wife. She's in here in the first page. Uh, this first book is I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't for her. We were, I don't even think we were dating, but I it was a point in my life where I stopped writing out poems. Like I would just create them in my head and I write them down. And long story short, uh, I told her, she asked me if I when's the last time I written a poem, and I was like, I got one in my head, and she was like, Oh, that's a nice place for it. And I was like, oh word.

Speaker 4 42:04

That was the nicest shame.

Speaker 42:06

Hey, that day I'll just take on like check your email. There it is. Yeah, talk trash. Yeah, I just got back into writing stuff out, and then I was like, you know what? I think I want to do a book. Because I had been working on a matter of fact, I don't even know where that book is now, but I had been working on a totally different book altogether. I think it was like a communication guide or something like that. And I would have never guessed that my first published book would be poetry, and I would never guess that I would have three poetry books. So yeah, man, that uh that was uh interesting route. And like I said, you know, you can't sit there and pigeonhole yourself and try to feel like you know you're doing one thing. Yeah. Because, you know, my blog started, and then I grew my blog into a podcast, which caused me to be on another podcast. Um with my homie Charlie, we did uh Backyard Pitmasters, and then we have another podcast that's still in play. Um we're we're behind on episodes, but passive remote. Yeah. And then that led to me being on a Black Smoke Barbecue podcast. Uh-huh. And if I had just stuck with doing a blog, I probably wouldn't even be on y'all's show. Very true. So you just gotta elevate, man. It's always room for growth.

Speaker 3 43:27

Exactly. Speaking of which, you talked about something that we I know I like, and we were talking about this before we started. Barbecue. Yes. And Penn asked, could you could you just explain our audience a little bit of your love for for um all things smoke and following that smoke?

Speaker 1 43:43

That's what the episode needs to be called.

Speaker 43:45

All things smoked. All things smoked. Yes. I've always loved barbecuing. Like always, like growing up, and it's overtime, I've always been the person that no matter where we are, I'm asked to be on the grill. And I've one day, matter of fact, because Charlie had the uh backyard pitmasters, and he asked me to join. Yeah, and then he was like, Man, you should record just stuff and share it. I was like, all right, cool. So I started doing that, and then that's how I created my YouTube channel and my Instagram channel, just sharing my different cooks and stuff. And then um, he was on black smoke first, and then I came along, and man, like being in that space, and I'm just thinking about like if I hadn't started a podcast in general and been open to you know being on a podcast, I wouldn't have met these brothers on Black Smoke Barbecue. We've been to like a lot of different events and met a lot of famous barbecue people and had conversations with them. Yeah, and I'm just like, man, like I'm so glad I shared that instead of just trying to stick with poetry. Yeah. And so now I have this other thing over here where um I created a newsletter called The Common Flame, trying to bring the two worlds together. Because like I said, some people, you know, don't know about barbecue, my love for barbecue, and some people only know me from poetry. Yeah, some people only know me from barbecue, they don't know about my poetry. It's crazy. So I'm trying to, you know, bring the two together in a way that makes sense. Yeah. And it's just, man, I'm telling you, it's it's been a lot of fun um actually meeting people who are in the barbecue and stuff like that. So yeah.

Speaker 3 45:23

No, because that was really interesting because we're talking about this, because obviously we've been to the same event um that they host in in Bennettville, and this event is ridiculous. Yes. Yes. People don't I'm talking over 30,000 people in the middle of the country. Nobody shooting nobody, no fighting, they're giving out sky. Scholarship, she's getting good food, all community, great event. Um, and my wife and I we've gone, my brother actually came with us, he brought his wife too one time, and um I was just like, wow, you've been out to this event. We were talking about this before we started the podcast, and he was telling us about it. He's actually spoken with um one of the um not no creator, but the organizers for the event, etc. Um, and could you tell him about that event?

Speaker 46:11

Uh Country Style Cook Off. Yes. Uh it moved to Blenheim. Yep. And I think it might be somewhere again next year. But Arfinel, yeah, he's a journalist, um, has Country Style on YouTube. And like, so the first year that we went, me and the guys from Black Smoke, that was all of our first year there. Yeah. It was a lot of fun. And that was the year I saw y'all.

Speaker 2 46:32

Yeah.

Speaker 46:33

I saw y'all for a second. I looked and I looked back and I didn't see y'all anymore. We were moving fast trying to get food. We were hungry. So we met art, and art has been on you know our podcast, and we developed a relationship with art where this most recent country style, black smoke, were guest judges, and we just awesome. I saw y'all on the episode, yeah. Which leads back to if I didn't start the podcast from the blog, would I have been doing any of this stuff? No, no.

Speaker 1 47:06

So everything happens in the right time in divine order.

Speaker 3 47:10

Yep, as it's supposed to. As it's supposed to. Man, um, last thing for you today. Well, this is always the best. I always like this question. It seems real boring, but I love this question. How do you find balance between work and balance in your personal life? So I was thinking about this question. It's a hard question.

Speaker 47:30

My advice would be if you have something that you're doing outside of your nine to five, don't let your nine to five drain your energy. I know it sounds easier than it is because sometimes that day can go long, but do whatever you have to do to refresh and kind of clear your mind, even if something not related to what you're doing. Like for instance, I love barbecue. Let's say I had like a rough day and I want to grill some leg quarters. Yeah. Just go out there in the backyard and just, you know, light up the coals and do some leg quarters. And now my mind is at ease, and now when I go back in the house, I'm able to write. True. So it's like you have to find something to break that up and then get back to what you're doing. Because if you got a nine to five, these people you're working for, they've already done what they they need to do. So it's like you gotta keep that in mind. You gotta like, okay, I had a long day, so let me do this. And also try to plan it to where like your your times of the day when things work best for you. I've heard some people say they wake up extra early to work on whatever they're doing outside of the nine to five. If that works for you, then you might have to put that on your calendar. Um, calendar is another way. You have to make sure you plan stuff, even plan like a break, because sometimes we get so busy when we're doing something, we don't take that break. And sometimes you might have to put a reminder on your phone to tell you to take a break.

Speaker 4 48:54

Yeah.

Speaker 48:55

So how I find that balance is I just make sure that I don't let whatever happens at work carry. And I've never been that type of person. Like, once I I clock out, I'm done. Yeah, I'm done. Leave it. Leave it at work. Leave work at work. I don't be thinking about that stuff.

Speaker 3 49:10

Leave work at work. I tell look, I tell my stuff, leave work at work. When y'all leave, don't be thinking about me. Because I'm not thinking about you guys. My fault, I say that with all love. With all love and kindness. They know. They know. When I'm gone, that's it. You ain't getting up my time while I'm there. I stay there long enough. So I I agree with you that. And and um, final thing, obviously it's shameless plug time. Yeah. If you just tell us about what you're working on, what we can expect from you in the future, you can shoot out all your people.

Speaker 1 49:39

You can do all the things. How can we buy the book?

Speaker 49:43

Yes. Okay, so my books are on my website, uh the brown sugarcafe.blog, and you can get them from there. You can get that from Amazon too, but like we said earlier, just get them from me. Yes, get direct. Yeah. Find them in the street, roll up on them. Yo, give me a book. Yeah, I I have at least a few copies on me. So if you see me on the streets, yeah. But hey. And if I don't have any, I'll get them to you. Yeah. You can uh follow me on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, uh, at the Brown Sugar Cafe. My poetry is there, um, my stuff from my podcast, uh, the Brown Sugar Cafe Podcast. I'm in my fifth season, I think. Oh yeah. We lighting up with us. Okay. Yeah. So check that out. It's available on all platforms. Uh if you're in the barbecue, uh at tdub.bbq on all socials. It's uh t dub-bbq on YouTube. So if you're into like barbecue barbecue content, check that out. Um I'm going there right now. Appreciate it. Pass the remote uh with me and Charlie. It's about movies and TV shows, so check that podcast out. And also the Black Smoke Barbecue Podcast. That's on mainly on YouTube, but it's on other YouTube platforms as well. My newsletter, um, substatdeck.com slash Terrence PL more, or you can look for the common flame. So that's my newsletter where I bring together both worlds, where I talk about what's happening with my writing, what's happening with um my podcast, and then I go into the barbecue side of stuff. So that's a good um platform to check out my things. And I believe I have everything. I think I don't hopefully I didn't. Yeah, I think I have everything, but Google me if you if you if you need to. Tell them Terrence P. P. D.

Speaker 3 51:32

Or Google me. You find my stuff. You don't want to pull up no other Elmores. All right. So I'll make sure I grab the subject.

Speaker 1 51:39

This was a good episode. You dropped a lot of gems. I know a lot of people that are interested in being becoming authors have learned a lot because I have.

Speaker 2 51:46

Yeah. Notes, mental notes.

Speaker 1 51:48

Oh, yeah. You can send me a, you know, I know people at I want to know.

Speaker 51:51

Send me a DM if you want to learn about, you know, we'd like you to say that. We like for you to say that. Yeah, you got a question. If you have any questions, hit me up and ask me. Um, people ask me often, like, don't be afraid. Like, I'm here to help.

Speaker 3 52:04

Yeah.

Speaker 52:05

Because I feel like I've gone through the hardships of trying to figure out stuff so somebody else won't have me.

Speaker 3 52:09

What'd Jay say? I did it so you don't have to. Yeah. There you go.

Speaker 1 52:13

Learn to teach.

Speaker 3 52:13

Yep, learn to teach. Awesome. Well, for the Hilltop Glove Podcast, we'll be signing out. It's DJ and what?

Speaker 1 52:19

Tamaya.

Speaker 3 52:20

Skip. And our esteemed guest.

Speaker 1 52:25

I was like, what's my name?

Speaker 3 52:28

Well, what is your name? Until the next time, man. Tell somebody next to him that you love him and you appreciate them. Man, y'all catch us on the next episode. Peace.