SPEAKER_03 1:45

So good morning, and thank you for tuning in to another episode of the Hilltop Globe Podcast. Today, uh, we are thrilled to have the opportunity to speak with Manny Williams. Yep, a talented music producer hailing from Chicago. Manny specializes in hip hop and RB and has brought his unique sound to Charlotte, North Carolina, where he has resided since 2012. Since moving to Charlotte, Manny has launched his acclaimed free lunch peak tape series. And you're on number six. No, seven now? I'm on seven, yeah. Seven now. Seven dropped on the first perfect. Oh, it's a good timer. Yeah. This series is a compelling narrative of his growth in music production, showcasing his ability to blend both traditional and contemporary sounds to craft something truly timeless. Stay with us as we delve into the captivating world of music and explore the depths of Manny's creative process in today's episode. How are you doing? I'm good. How y'all doing? I appreciate y'all having me today. So this interview is very interesting because this was a long time ago. Yeah, yeah. And um by these belts, uh lot of reason why. So uh honestly, a lot of what we um started with the Hilltop Glove and why we're here today is honestly from some of the work that we've done, working with our homeboy Eric. Um especially me and Samaya. Um helping with the beat con. Yeah, shout out to Eric Kinetic Life. Yep. And um, like I said, I think the last beat battle we had, as a matter of fact, I think it was like a few weeks before 20 uh before COVID hit.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Yeah, it was a few weeks before. It was like literally, I think probably maybe two or three weeks before they went on ahead and started masking everybody up, telling you you gotta stay in the house. So that's crazy before times.

SPEAKER_03 3:25

That's crazy. And with that said, um I just want to, and this is one question we always ask everybody starting out. We have them the first time. Um, so can you tell us a little bit about your background? What was your childhood like?

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Yeah, so um you know, I started off, I was born and raised in Chicago. Um I've lived all over Chicago for the most part. Um I spent the earlier part of my childhood, I would say all the way up until about seven years old. I I grew up in Blue Island. So that's a it's a south suburb. Okay. Um it's very mixed area, you know what I mean? Uh a lot of Hispanics, she had whites, blacks, very, you know, middle class neighborhood. And um then we, you know, life happens, yeah. Mom and dad split, end up moving to the inner city of Chicago. And um, I live right there on the 107th in Union. So if anybody see this, then know. Wow. You know, wow. Shout out union, shout out the hunted. So uh yeah, very, very, uh, very experienced in Chicago, you know what I mean? It's um it was a I love Chicago. Okay. I love Chicago. Okay. Um Chicago is is a really dope place. Yeah. You once once you learn how to navigate Chicago, it's it's not as bad as everyone makes it seem. Yeah. I think that's a uh, you know, it could be a misconception, especially if you, you know, you tune in too much to the media and everything, because it's bad everywhere. Yeah. You're right, you're right. It's just, you know, it's certain areas from living there. You know, okay, if I'm in this area, I'm I need to act accordingly, or I just I'm not from there, I'm not going there.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

That's anywhere, though.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

That's anywhere. You know, you just have to move, but it's it's it's a it's a really great, it's a really great city. Um, my block wasn't like super crazy. Um you know, my block was these are older people that's been there since the 60s. Okay. Established. Yeah, everybody knew my grandparents.

SPEAKER_04 5:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

You know, my mom, her brothers, everybody. So uh a lot of it, you can tell if you in the bed, if you in the lower, you in the hundreds or eighties, yeah. You know, if the grass is cut, it's you know, it's a little bit better. Oh, you got people that you know take care of the lawn and everything, it's it's fine. You you you're okay. It might be another block or two down, you gotta work. Okay. Great, great, great.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

So we I gotta ask a ratchet question. So you didn't have any of those folks that were um that were displaced from Cabrini Green in your area?

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Um, no, not in my area, at least that not that I know of. My mom, she had a friend that still stayed in Caprini Green. Really? And um, I remember we we went there seldomly. She did she would go a lot because they were like they were tight. They were really close friends. And um uh she took us through there maybe like maybe three or four times went there. Um, you know, she was really nice, and I just remember always thinking, I remember always going through there, man, and like, you know, it would be hot as hell, no matter what, no matter what time of the year. Like, why is it always hot in this damn building? It's like that was my my my first experience with the project. My mom.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

This is a different type of project, so that's why I asked that question. I had that question ready. I was like, I'm gonna ask them this one. Yeah, you know, surprise me.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah, okay, we was worried about Candyman, you know, yeah from the Kubernetes ring. You didn't know that? You know why?

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Yeah, that's what wow, makes sense. Yeah, maybe that's why people are really afraid of Chicago, like that could you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

That helps. That helps. Because you think about it, he was the only black horror. He's like the only black or uh character.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Character, villain. Well, I guess the way you whichever way you want to look at it. Because is he really a villain? Yeah, because is he really a villain? Because we know what happened. There you go. So it's you know, it's kind of a it's it's it's it's fringe. Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_03 7:27

But you know, but Chicago's always been getting smoked though with negativity, especially when it comes to black culture. Because you think about it, like even back in the day, um, with shows, and I don't think it's a negative show, but you know how you have shows like Good Times, right?

SPEAKER_04 7:39

Oh, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Right. Think about how like how they like how the characters were, you know, like how everything was depicted on good times, right? Yeah, it's not the theme song, right? And you just you know, bro. Hanging in the child line.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Yep. Mm-hmm. Gotta hit the little You gotta hit the move. You gotta hit the move. No, but it does have it, it does have uh that city, and it's crazy. That city, Chicago has a very like sorted history and past, and it's interesting and compared to a lot of places because of the influence of black people there.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the the great migration, you know, a lot all my family is from the south. Like my grandma's, my grandma, all her family is from Birmingham, Alabama.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

That's all I was about to say.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

I got family from Mississippi in there. Um, my dad's side, they all from Holy Grove, Arkansas. Oh so, you know, my my my uncles and aunties, they country country boys. Yeah, you know, they they still walk around in cowboy boots and they rock cowboy hats every front again.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

So that's dope. So I got this question for you, Donna. So because I know so we're so we were born in Connecticut, so we're more trying to East Coast. Yeah. And so, of course, a lot of people, of course, with the Great Migration, a lot of the folks that are up there came primarily from the Carolinas. Yeah, because that's where our folks from Carolinas.

SPEAKER_04 9:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 9:04

And um, one of the things I know was a big deal um growing up was during the summer times, you know, coming that going that coming down south, or if you're down here going up there before. Yeah. So did you ever um come down south during the summer or like growing up?

SPEAKER_01 9:20

No, because everybody left. Like there's a story. My my my uncle, my uncle Tom used to tell me all the time, he was like, he said, when they all migrated, I think it was my auntie B, she left first from the story because she used she was uh she took a key a teaching good gig in Chicago.

SPEAKER_04 9:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

And then all the rest of the family kind of you know started falling down after that. And my uncle Tom was saying, he said he when he finally left Arkansas, he said he did about 90, 100 the whole way. He said he getting chased by police officers on the highway. He said, the closer I got to Chicago, the faster I went.

SPEAKER_04 9:55

Oh this is a difference, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

And I will say this this is a difference. Yeah. And you saw this in the movie Centers on the Watch the movie. This is Deep South, Kevin, not East Coast. It's a different type of situation they were dealing with. A lot of them, when they left, they did not come back. Yeah, they never came back.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

The one there are still some family that stay, like um uh the land that you know my my my parents and my uncles grew up on, they share that land with another family, and that land is still there. Awesome. Um one of my cousins is she just moved down there and she's looking to, you know, uh get some work done and uh clean up the land and bring it back to life. Yeah, bring it back to life, possibly uh, you know, make something happen, either, you know, renting out the space for a little while. But you know, I haven't actually had a chance to go visit it yet. Yeah. Um I know my my dad still goes pretty pretty regularly, but I I need to go and check it. I always see the pictures, but you know, I gotta go up there and see it myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

That's an interesting story. I always tell this um, what is it? There's um conversation, I believe it was um, just speaking about hip hop, it was UGK. They're having a conversation with I forget the hip-hop magazine. It was either Ozone or the Southern um magazine, but they were talking about specifically, they were like, Yeah, man, um, they were talking about like Miami music and their music in Atlanta, and they were like, nah, like, no, this is different. The South is different. And they're like, what do you mean the South? They said, no, no, no. Where we're from, this is the South because we're in a different time zone. And I had to think about that, and I was like, that is a good point. Once you get past certain things, you get past Georgia, and you're moving into Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, you're in a different time zone. And I'm like, that is a different South. And I've studied extensively, I've studied slavery and stuff and American history stuff. And I was like, they were doing different things out there than they were doing back east coast. So the stories and stuff that I hear from people that left those areas, and when you think about the cities, right? There's a different understanding of how those cities are Detroit's Chicago, Milwaukee's, there's a different way those work and operate than the cities over in the East Coast. And I've always understood that's interesting because you know what it also comes to change the experience of music. Exactly. Exactly. Because y'all have some real different type of music going on.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Exactly. That's why, you know, Chicago has a really heavy blues-inspired sound, you know, blues and jazz. Um, you know, a lot of a lot of these people were from the South that you know migrated to Chicago and just made that sound popular. So it's just it's a different vibe, man. And that's why a lot of times, like, if you you know, you guys have been in Chicago. A lot of times I've had other people go to Chicago and they're like, y'all almost kind of sound southern. Like Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

I ran into more collar greens up there than I ran in and ran into up in New York.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Yeah, a lot of them, they they still, you know, those those traditions and everything is still still prevalent in Chicago.

SPEAKER_04 13:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

So like we we had uh we used to have a store called uh Moo and Oink. Yeah. We used to have a store called Moon and Oink. And uh Moo and Oink was just, you know, it was it was the black, it was the black grocery store. Like you went there, they had they had everything. Uh course, all your assortments of pork if you're into pork, yeah, all that was there. Um I just remember always going there as a kid. My uncle always had these big barbecues, like man, whenever he whenever he had a barbecue, it was it was lit, man. Everybody was coming through. Uh-huh. Neighborhood thing. Yeah, it was like he had a big, I think I remember like right before he passed, a little while, he had bought a uh, I don't know if he bought a, he had to have a custom built. He had a grill that was about probably about the size of this table and probably about just as deep. And whoa. He would uh, yeah, when he barbecued and he grilled out, everybody was whole family. I mean, just say, see that smoke, you follow that smoke. Yeah, whole block talking. I mean, it's smoke going all the way down the block. Like, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Yep, because I love barbecue culture. We were talking about this earlier. I love barbecue culture. Some of the best barbecue culture is gonna be out that way. Yeah. And I actually I wrote a um, I had to write a paper about this. I wrote a paper about this, about barbecue culture and where it comes from and why people do different barbecues. I know a little too much about barbecue. Okay. But it was really cool because one good thing about like with Chicago is the river. And you realize how important the river systems are. So, like with the Mississippi River and Ohio River and all those things, it's how products traveled determines what type of barbecue you get.

unknown 14:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

So you want to know why people have dry rub. It's because they got all the spices and et cetera, that already came down from up north and way down the way to be sent out on the barges. You want to know why people use molasses? Because they had the molasses that was already coming out that hadn't been processed. When it gets to their spot, it's cheaper to buy, so they use it in making their barbecue. Like you realize, oh, so this is what happens. In South Carolina, specifically, the reason why they have mustard-based barbecue is because we have a large German uh population that bought mustard over and they use that to make their barbecue.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

And you're like, okay. Now, specifically, since we're here in Charlotte, North Carolina, I gotta say this part the whole uh vinegar uh-based barbecue and even the ketchup-based barbecue is because those are the products that they had that they were making here in the state. And that stuff never came down to South Carolina because it would just get shipped out from Wilmington, which was a big pork town.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Now you know why you're eating what you eat. And I was like, oh, it makes so much sense. But the reason why I like it out there, and especially with Chicago, you know what they make? Beef barbecues. Yep, beef barbecue. Can't get that over here. They're eating pigs here, and I don't eat no pork. So I like how they do barbecue over there. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

And um, you know, a lot there they have uh the the big thing is they one thing I learned when I moved to the south, between, you know, going back to that barbecue culture is uh barbecue, the barbecue culture is different from down here than it is in the Midwest. Like uh, because I they they consider barbecue here not the same as we would consider barbecue up in the Midwest. Like when I when I first came down, you know, I was saying, oh, we're going to get barbecue. And I was just talking about like a char grill burger or something. Say it, yeah. And they were like, Oh, you so you mean you just want a cookout? I said, Yeah, no, it's it's barbecue, right? They said, No, they said barbecue is uh, you know, we got a we got a hog or something, or we we got a brisket or something, that's a barbecue. Yeah, a pig pulling. But up in Chicago, when we barbecue, we throw it's it's a barbecue. If you fire the charcoal grill, like it's it's barbecue. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

So yeah, it's just different. Man, so with that said, this is this is this is a funny way about this conversation. We had this conversation earlier. But of course, you know, we're here to talk about your music, of course. You know, we mentioned earlier, um, free lunch beat tape series. Yeah. Um but aside from that, um, as a producer, as a beat maker, um, for you, um, what is it like um just your creative process? Like just from start to finish. Because I've already heard all your stuff. All your stuff is fire.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

I know, it does fire.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Thank you. Uh man, uh process. My process is weird because I really don't have a process, right? Like, I mean, I just a lot of times I just kind of go in and just go where the vibe is taking me. So, you know, I'm I'm I would say my style is I like to make the drums as the art of the show. Okay. For me, because I, you know, the drums are what's gonna, you know, make the track walk. So uh once I find like some good drums, that can kind of that can really, you know, make the make or break the track for me. Like, you know, where I go next. Um it could be something that just randomly pops up in my head. It's not um, it's not like a full process. Like sometimes I may start melody first, sometimes I start drum first, sometimes I might just mess with a kick for 15, 20 minutes, and then next thing you know, I got a whole track. So it's uh it's really it's really strange, but you know, it's my process. So it's it's kind of one of those things everybody I've had people say, why don't you go live and cook up all the time? I was like, bro, y'all don't want to see me mess with a kick and snare for 30 minutes. Y'all don't want to see that.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

Boom, boom.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Y'all don't want to see. I had to I have to chop that stuff up. So uh you know the process is a little on the unorthodox. It's not like uh just because for me, um, you know, I'm a bit older, I'm not you know, gonna age myself, but I started off on FL Studio 4. This was like my junior sophomore year, sophomore year high school. Okay, yeah, we know you know um I was just learning. Um I was just learning how to make music and I had always had the ear for it because you know my mom was my mom sang jazz, um, my dad was mom sang was a jazz singer, my dad was in the church choir, they tried to make me join the church choir. I ain't like it. Sing boys, sing.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Little did they know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

I used to be messing around. I used to sing, I used to sit in there sing like Barry White. So I was like I'll be the one. So they used to get mad. So but yeah, they all oh wow, my fault. They all uh they all were into music and um, you know, I always had the ear. We grew up with pianos and everything too. So uh once I found the program, uh it just took me a while figuring it out. So a lot of the process from when I started carried over to now. Okay. The only difference is now, you know, I can navigate a little bit more. Um my ear is a little bit more primed to what I want to hear. So gotcha. In that sense, it's a little bit quicker, but the process is still kind of the same. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_03 19:56

So do you still use FL Studio or you migrated over to something else?

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Oh, yeah, I still use FL. Okay. I I I have you I do use other things too now. Um I use NPC now. Okay. Okay. Um basically because to me, the MPC sound engine is is unnatural. It's one of the best ever made.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

It's one of the best ever made. I will tell you, FL Studio is way better than it used to be, too, which means it you can use and do more with it nowadays, which I understand the reason why people still use it to this day. It's in Mulch Major Studios. You're gonna run into it. If you need it, you can use it alongside the Abletons and the Logics and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 20:33

I find it crazy, though, after all these years, that's like you said, I'm like you said, how now it's in studios. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember like it used to be such a stigma. Right.

SPEAKER_04 20:43

You used to make use fruity loops.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

They even call it FL Studio, y'all. Use Fruity Loops, like come ahead. FL Studio Studio. They like use that serial thing to make music.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

But I'm gonna tell you what I knew. It made it to the mainstream, yeah. Especially FL Studio. And of course, this is like, of course, anybody who follows the show, they know you know it's produce a lot of stuff. But I was watching the episode of what's my show? Um what's my show? Easter Ray Joint that used to be on.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

We know the name.

SPEAKER_03 21:15

Yeah, I don't know. I just think I was watching the episode of Insecure. You watched Insecure. Yeah, I watched a few episodes. Because you know, she talked to the different dudes, obviously, outside of Lawrence. But it was the um the guy that she dated that worked on, you know, he was a producer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I remember one time she was, I guess she was wet telling him to like a bar or club. He had you know, Insta Rage is very goofy, right? That's her character, anyways, right? Right. And she was like, Yeah, you know, he'd be up in the studio, FL Studio, making me some stuff. And I was like, oh my goodness. I know. I was like, 'cause he was looking at her like, what is she doing? Yeah. But the whole point, but the whole what it made me realize was I was like, man, like FL oh this, oh, so it's major now.

SPEAKER_02 21:59

So this is something that's all known. Yeah. There's no no reason to feel any way about using it. Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

You know, it really made everybody, it really turned everybody into producers, like LP. Like it's because it was so accessible, and unfortunately, you know, everybody was cracking that joint. Like, I mean, everybody.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

And the thing is, I can't be angry at it. Yeah, I'm not angry at it at all because I will tell you this, and I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna talk trash real quick since we're talking about production stuff. People use Ableton. Have you ever used Ableton? Yeah, yeah. I use trash, yeah. Trash software, trash, trash, trash, yeah, trash, all the trash software, trash. Yep. Yes, and I'm gonna say FL Studio, way better software, way better software. I used Ableton. I remember, and I'm gonna tell you how again I'm trying to date myself. I remember like a lot of um DJs were using Ableton because you can like load up tracks and like load them to run. We should do that. We matter of fact, the first we did a party for the purpose. I used Ableton to DJ that, Kev.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

Oh that's great.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

That's that's this is how old school. I used Ableton and vinyl.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

Yeah, that's like 06. Yeah, and so I was trying to use Ableton, I was learning it, doing everything, and I was like, yo, this is such a trash software. I was like, yo, you can't really do nothing with it. They create all these like um products that you can only use with that software, it doesn't meld out to anything else, and it doesn't help like with your creative ability either to like open up like speed in production. Right. And I guess this leads to this question. When it comes to producing, are you are you ever worried about speed of production? Like, are you trying to do quantity over quality at this point in your no?

SPEAKER_01 23:37

I don't I don't care about speed. Look, I don't care about speed, how long it takes, is just how long it takes. Uh, you know, there was when I when I first started and even probably up till about, I would say, like 2015, I did not use any samples. I just all straight original. Just I didn't use samples. One because I didn't know where to get them. I didn't know how to chop samples. I didn't even it's not Chicago. You from Chicago. Yeah, I'm coming for you.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Y'all come in flying vinyl studios y'all had?

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Like vinyl. Oh my lord. You tell me, man, you didn't use samples up until 2015. I didn't, I didn't have well, I would say, I would say I didn't. Uh I did try, but I didn't know how to sample. Like I didn't have any hardware. I didn't have any hardware. I didn't have to my my uncle had hardware, but I couldn't, I couldn't scratch it. I couldn't take that with me. But you know, I didn't have any hardware.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

You're still killing it. You were still killing it though, bro.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

You couldn't tell. I was uh penciling everything in. I was penciling everything in from the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

He was drawing everything. If y'all know about FL Studio, again, he was drawing it. He was drawing in the beats.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Yeah, I was penciling everything, every chord, every melody top line. I was penciling it in.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

This is more impressive.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

And um, you know, it it's got its ups and downs too. It's the time, the time part of it, I was spending nine, ten hours, twelve, sixteen hours on one beat. It's been times where like, you know, my wife and we were dating and like she would wake up one morning, I'll be working, she goes to sleep, she wake up the next day, I'd still be working on the question.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

Another question. So, what about your wife and you making the beats? Did she ever get pissed off when she's oh yeah, that's y'all's question.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Y'all asked that question. You know, I'm trying to think, has she ever really, you know, she she's she's made like a little bit of fun, like just because she like she like you just over there bit bopping on them beats all day. I'm like, but for the most part, like she's uh she you know, my wife writes comics too. So you know oh she has a lot of things. She's a creative too. So she understands, and I've been doing it so long, like I was making music before we got together. Okay. So when when when she came in, she kind of known, like, you know, the two things I'm gonna spend the most time on if we not doing anything is beats and video games. That's it. That's just the two things.

SPEAKER_03 26:07

Oh, that's good for them because they don't even be at.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

There's other vices you can have that can be detrimental to relationships. Lesson. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Y'all better let that man do the S day. We'll take that. That's an okay vice.

SPEAKER_03 26:18

We'll take those vices. So um, I know another question that we had was um, of course, you know, making beats is more than just creative work. You know, of course it's identifying sounds and sounds. Right. Right? So um you have a very unique sound. Um, so whenever I hear um one of your beats, well, and I've been to, like I said, I hear like on like I said, it might be something you might elaborate or work with somebody on or even at a show, right? I know I always many, right? Yeah. Um, how would you describe your sound?

SPEAKER_01 26:51

Um I describe my sound as just, you know, it's it's just so it's just Chicago soul, man. A lot of people, I was always trying to figure that out myself because I was like, you know, it's just it's just hip hop, but you know, uh people I really respect, they always, every time they hear my stuff, they're like, man, you can hear the Chicago, man.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

It's just you can't escape it.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Yeah, it's just Chicago soul. So um, yeah, all of my beats, I just I just try to incorporate some soul, man. I um I uh uh free lunch seven is really it kind of almost sounds like black exploitation music. Like it could have been like, you know, something. But when I make stuff, I make music. I want it to be, I want it to be something that'll translate everywhere. So, you know, you can put it on in the car and you can ride from state to state and you know, just have a good time. It ain't gonna, it ain't gonna overpower you. I can overlet her have a track that'll overpower you with drums and stuff like that, but I want it to have that that ride feeling. You know, you want to sit back, hay you a glass of bourbon or something, like you know, you could you could do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

Definitely, definitely. And so then the other um question. So when it comes to like working with artists, because I know so much of what you do, of course, um, um like social media, of course, what you're known for. You're known, of course, for um beat making and production, of course, and then of course being in competitions. Yeah, what is it like? How different is it? Like, how does that experience change when you're working with artists?

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Um, so it doesn't it doesn't change too much because for me with the with the beat battles, I can I don't consider myself a beat battle producer. So I don't I don't consider myself a beat battle producer.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

So like if you're a battle rapper, you wouldn't consider yourself a battle rapper. You say you're an artist that makes records that is going to battle.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

I'm a I'm a producer that makes beats that can be played in a battle. That's the way I look at it. I look at it, that's the way I approach because it's like when I make something, it's like, okay. If I'm not specifically making something for like, you know, RB that's just intentional, intentionally meant to be uh on the the lighter side. Yeah. On the normal day-to-day when I'm making something with artists in mind, I do always keep this the the actual fact of hey, because people want me to play stuff live or something like that, or maybe people want to see hear beats online, or may want me to come up to like a you know a beat freak show and play something. I have that thought in my mind, like, okay, this has got to be exciting enough to play in front of a crowd. So it's like the beat battle aspect, those beats are always gonna be interesting for the most part. You know, the ones that know how to beat battle, yeah, it's gonna be a crazy interesting, like I mean, sheesh. But you know, you gotta I find I try to find a balance where I can do that, but still, if there was an artist in the room that said, I want that right now, I could say, here you go. I don't have to go take out all these transitions and feels and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 29:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Minor, minor stuff. If we have to, I can move certain arrangements to something like that. So that's just the way I look at it.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

I like that explanation. I like that explanation, especially for people if you don't dabble in making music or set where you explain with the transitions and the fills and et cetera. In a beat battle, you're trying to build up and anticipation and excitement with the way that the beat moves. But in a normal song, you don't need all of that because the the voice is gonna carry it.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Yeah, because you you have to find the space you when you want to have the artist, the artist is gonna need space. Like I've I've had, I've had artists tell me in the past before, like, uh I can't really find it. It's dope, but I can't find the space in it, or it's it's it's hard for me to write to. And while that can be, that's kind of like a double-edged sword or a back-handed compliment almost to a degree because it's like, okay, what you mean? Like, yeah, like it ain't good. Like, is it not good or is it good? Like what he's saying. But I guess the thing is, what they're saying is, is you know, they have they're they're having trouble finding the right pocket to rhyme in or to sing in. Yep. So, and a lot of one of the things I recently had to learn too, just even with some of my drum programming, is uh not every drum break has not every drum pattern has to be super crazy. A lot of times it's about the sounds that you choose. Quality. And where you put your where you put your brakes, because once you can find that space, you build, it's it's like building, it's like Legos or putting together time of the train is in track or something like that. Yeah, make sure the pieces fit. It's gotta lead somewhere to your next break or your next drop or something like that, just so you build the story. Like I'm when I'm putting my drones together, I'm thinking, like, okay, what am I saying here? I may drop a feel on the one because in my mind, I'm saying, I'm saying something just quick here for them one to two bars, and then we back into the the verse, we back into it. Yeah, so but some artists they don't like that because some artists just don't want to be challenged. I mean, that's just we just keep it a you know, keep it a mirror. Touche. Touche. That's straight up. Don't want to be challenged and they don't want to find the pocket for it. And you know, a lot of these artists really uh it's a good number of artists that don't really know what they want to what their sound is either or what they want to rap to, because not everybody sounds good on trap beats, not everybody sounds good on boom bap beats, so we have to just figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

So, next question I have, and this one makes a lot of sense. So, of course, if somebody were to hear your music, well, not online or at a live event. I know a lot of times you'll have folks that'll come up to you like, hey, I want you know artists, hey, yeah, I'm interested in working with you. Maybe we can collab on some stuff. Have you ever had an artist by chance, especially with your sound, because you do have, because you have a signature sound, and it's um it's definitely something that's um unique to you. Yeah. Do you ever have artists that come up to you and still ask you to make a tight beat? Yeah.

unknown 32:49

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Yep, yep. Say, oh, I want something like uh, I think I'm trying to think. What was the craziest one? The craziest one I had, I had somebody like they they literally told me they on the phone saying I want the beat to do boom boom. And I'm like, and he said, I want airplane sound on this. And I was like, You want the airplane transition over? I'm like, okay, let me see how I'm gonna do that. So I was like, you want an airplane sound over there? And I was like, Yeah, he never got that beat. But I was about to say, no shade whoever asked for that, but you knew what you wanted. You knew exactly what you wanted. But for the most part, uh, when people ask me that, like, you know, I was talking to another friend of mine about that too, and he was saying, my homie Tip B, shout out Tip. Uh, he was saying, you know, a lot of artists really don't know exactly what they want. Like, you have when they ask for that type of stuff, you have to explain, you know, you do it your way, kind of probe deeper into those kind of questions, like, well, what do you listen to right now? Who you inspire by, like, and then you can kind of go out there. You don't have to try to imitate it, but you just do it in your way. Uh that's kind of that that's what's helped me, you know, a little bit more than kind of overthinking, man. I gotta make this sound exactly like that. Now it's just kind of like, you know, I can I can do that, but it's just gonna be in my way of doing it. So it's either it's either you'll like it or you're not, but you know, it's it's it'll be another beat for the backlog for someone else that may come along.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

So yeah. Now you can't just walk up to somebody and say, hey, yo, I want a Zaythoven beat. No, that's Zaytoven's way of doing the beat. So you're gonna get a different top style, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And like I said, and the reason why I ask that now is of course, um, with um what uh what you do, technology is involved. Oh yeah. And we know technology is always involved, evolving. Yeah. Right? And I gotta bring up this question because this one was one, because you knew what I was gonna ask. Oh, I know it's coming. So this is a this is a series, series of questions. So, of course, you know, so FL Studio or other tools, like you said, like Abletons, um, all those types of things, logic, they were all disruptors to technology that came before them, of course, like to the NPC, tasking, tasking, you know, to keyboards, you know, SP12, all that. Um what do you think about what's your opinion on AI, especially AI, like with tools like Suna, what is coming out of music production? Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Oh boy, y'all got time? Yeah, man. Um so this is my this is my thing with the digital works, the the dolls versus working in the box. I don't think, as much as the the producers and engineers that work in the box, you know, may have hated the the the transition to working in digitally, I don't think it's nothing in comparison to the AI piece of it because the difference between going from you know analog to digital is you still needed to be able to play to some degree, you still needed to know, okay, this is what this is, this is what this is supposed to sound like. You still needed an ear.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Music theory.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

You still needed an ear for music and to be able to understand how to put chords together, uh, where drums go. The difference with the AI is it's which in which a lot of the the bigger companies and these some of these other execs and other producers that advocate for say is it's cutting out the middleman, which it really is. Because they're just taking something or taking an idea of prompt saying, I want a beat to sound like a 70s reggae with minimal transitions or whatever, and then just having it prompt out something and then either not doing anything else to it and just putting it out, or you know, just it's not the same, like because there's a I'll agree there's an ethical way to use AI. I mean, yeah. There's ethical way, but there's also those who aren't gonna be ethical with it. And that's just that's just the way life is. Like even with even with loops today, uh samples, like we got producers that's not gonna take a sample and chop it up or do anything else to it. It's just gonna lay it out through the drums on it, which is fine. I mean, I don't care how you use it. If it sounds good, it sounds good. Like we really, the only people that care about how you made it is unfortunately us. We don't exactly care about how you made it. But I mean, to the average listener, they don't care. But I think what happens is, and what what uh where the problem comes in with the AI piece is since you are cutting out the middle person, you're cutting out the session drummers, the session bass players, you're cutting the economy, yeah. You're cutting all of these different people out, you're trying to cut out the engineers because they also have uh they also have the the AI mastering now. So it's just different. So you're cutting out all these different people, these uh these middlemen, because you want to save a book. But what happens when everybody's music sounds the same, everybody's mastering sound the same, because AI can only be derivative, it's not original. That's it, it's not original. That's it. So, you know, when um when that starts to be enough and it floods because everybody's trying to compete, because what happens is somebody makes it popular all the time, and then everybody wants to follow suit. So when everybody is oversaturated, when it when it's oversaturated with AI stuff, everything sounds the same. And I mean, we kind of already dealing with a lot of music sounding the same right now because just the the landscape and what's being promoted and people following the trend. Um a lot of these labels are not genuinely looking for new talent, they're looking for social media. Personalities, yeah, personalities that just may or may not make mostly may not know how to rap. So yeah, like if we can influence, you can get on social media and you know, gardener followers and stuff like that, and that's really all they care about. And um AI is just everybody, it's just a race to be first with AI, man. It's that's what it's coming down to. This whole thing with Timberland and Suno and some of the other labels, even the you know, they was doing like the UMG, what was it? Umg versus I think it was the other, it's a smaller uh company that's is UMG versus the people that uh that uh you know advocate, it's like another group that advocates for the use of AI music and they claim it's fighting for the rights of you know us maintaining our ownership if we AI. But it's um it's still not it's still not advocacy and it's not ownership because if you read the the terms on Suno, you still don't you you don't own the tracks that you generate unless you pay for the premium. And then there is no official government official copyright for AI music. And a lot of companies are saying, like a lot, especially on Instagram. You see on Instagram it says before you make a post, they want to know if you use excessive AI, you need to say you have to put that there, otherwise they're gonna snatch your post down.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

So Because you do you know, and I'm I'm gonna jump on this because it makes they gotta put this point in here. The reason for that is that AI is not a person, and it has no rights. It's a literal slave. Yeah. So who owns the product of the slave? The owner. So you literally are giving your rights directly to whoever owns what created. So that's why that's why I dislike it so much, and like you're talking about like cutting out the middleman, is because what people don't realize is first of all, you're you're the whole reason why people make music is so that we can have um a creative expression. Right. And that only comes from a sold individual. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Because the way the way I may play bass may be different from the way this person plays bass. Yeah, if AI is listening, let's just say, let's just say I did play officially play bass. Let's say I officially was a bass player, yeah, and I took the and AI took both of me and another bass players, you know, listened to all our music and built this algorithm around that, right? Yeah, where is it gonna it's not gonna either choose one or the other, like the between those two prompts, it's always gonna be one or one or the two, whichever one is out, it's not gonna be a okay. The AI said I'm gonna do it this way instead. It's not gonna be any middle ground because AI is not gonna be able to determine, you know, it's gonna sound like somebody. So yeah, AI is I don't know, it's it's tricky. Ready?

SPEAKER_02 41:54

I'm gonna tease AI is a really good way of telling people you're gonna steal their stuff without saying steal it. I'm not gonna lie, that's just what it is. Yeah, um, because AI is it's all when they tell you what it is, these are these are model-based learning systems. Yeah. Look it up in a dictionary, see what that means, put type that into Google and see what a model-based learning system is. It's me taking information or data from one place and using it to make um to make guess uh make educational decisions or make decisions based on information. Meaning basically you're just hustling somebody's stuff. Yeah. It's hustling the stuff.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Yeah, it it it doesn't it doesn't exist without the human.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

So I mean it doesn't. Not at all. Not at all. Man, well, I get even I'm more upset talking about it, but I ain't gonna keep talking about that. Um what I guess just moving in on this, um, so we don't waste too much time, but could you tell us about some steps that you take to protect your beats?

SPEAKER_01 42:46

Um, so yeah, so are we just talking about from being data loss or just you know, other people stealing? Well that's a good point.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

Other people stealing. Okay. Um AI.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

It's for for people taking my music. Um, you know, once I I keep I keep all my files. Um when I make stuff, I I have several backups of my music. You know, unfortunately, I did recently lose some old stuff, but learning experience, now I'm taking other precautions to make sure that it doesn't happen again. Okay. But um, you know, uh my music is backed up. So wherever I send music, uh, I don't worry so much because as long as I have my sessions and it pulls up somewhere else, they know it's mine because pretty much technically, once you finish your beat, once you make your beat, it's it's yours. It's basically already copywritten.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

It's just not Oh it tags it.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

It's just not, you know, uh legally copywritten.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

So that is still your that is still your work. Yeah. So if that beat turns up somewhere else, or you know, you, you know, we've had situ recent scenarios where that's happened. But if that beat turns up and you're like, hey, I can prove I made this beat. I have the sessions, I have the original names and files for for everything, you know, uh I could present that along with the PRO because you gotta have your PRO. Yeah. Um, that's that's just the extra layer you have with your PRO, because you know, uh depending on where it gets stolen at. Now, if you're dealing with something where it's in the industry and it's if you happen to get somebody steal your beat and it's up here, it blows up, you're gonna need that PRO. Because I mean they're gonna they're gonna try to come at you with some offers, and you know, you want to make sure, like, nah. So those PROs, you need somebody that's that's between the music lawyer, PRO, somebody that can step in and and do that fight for you. So what does PRO stand for, real quick? Uh so the PRO, that's like your I forget the exact uh abbreviation, but it's like your ASCAP BMI. Yeah, so it's like ASCAP BMI. And um they basically go to bat for you for getting your your your publishing and royalties and things like that. Um there's other there's other ones like sound skin and stuff like that. They uh for mechanicals, there's other uh PROs for that. But ASCAP or BMI, those are probably like, you know, if you're starting out, those are like the two main you want to have. Um I got ASCAP, my publishing and just my my artist page. So that's like a layer of protection. Um the other piece for if somebody's you know protecting my music is just uh I don't send anything exclusive without paperwork. Oh yeah, I don't send anything exclusive without paperwork. So if somebody tried to say, Oh, you you make you gave me this beat, why is why hear somebody else on it?

SPEAKER_00 45:42

That wasn't the spool.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

You didn't pay for it.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

Yeah, exactly. Did you get a contract? Because you know, I mean, as far as like sending stuff out, I don't really care. I mean, I you know, I'll send stuff out all day because uh sometimes you I may have something that I made a long time ago that I can send and you get some inspiration from. So I don't care about that stuff. I don't even when I do beat leases, I don't track that stuff because I'm not about to sit there like I know you can't use this beat in two days.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

Yeah, you know you got like two strings left, man. You want to review this?

SPEAKER_01 46:13

So it's like, you know, I don't track that stuff. But if it's exclusive, then it's kind of like I'll draw up a con I got a contract template, I draw it up, I send it, you know, you got 30 days to sign and send it back. So pretty simple. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:28

Um, got two questions for you as we wrap up. Um, first um, first question always ask all our guests. Um, so how do you find balance between work and your personal life?

SPEAKER_01 46:37

Um so between the music and personal life and just work in general outside of that, um, I mean, I always find me personally, I always find time for the things I I enjoy doing. I just always do, man. It's I'm not gonna say there's an easy way to do it or try to coach other people the way to do it because I mean everybody's situation is different. True. I mean, for me, I have the ability to find the time for the things I want to do. So after I go to work for eight hours, uh, you know, I I can I say that again. Say it again. Yes, you have to do what? Yeah, I can come home and I can spend the rest of the evening another three or four hours playing a game or making beats. I stop and make dinner or something like that or go eat dinner. And then, you know, after that I can come back and do something, something else before I go back. I can ask this. Do you have children? Yeah, I got one son. Be quiet. Yeah, I got one son.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

Go ahead. See, it is possible to have children and be able to make beats.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

Yeah, absolutely. My son is sitting there and make beats with me sometimes. Even better. Even better. My son is 10. Okay. Oh wow. Yeah, yeah, I believe he met your son. Yeah, he's 10 and he's he makes music. He's doing video games, so he makes music for like video games and uh his coding and different art projects, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

So I'm not gonna lie, that's why I think that's that wave that I like with the youth is um making music for the content that they like to ingest. That's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Yeah, so he he he I'm a terrible teacher when it comes to making music because it's like just do it. It's like you just gotta do it, man. You gotta hear it, son. Like you gotta hear it.

SPEAKER_04 48:17

So it's like making beats.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

He like, how do I do this? And I was like, man, if you don't hear it, you can't hear it. So I'm like, I'm he'll play. I'm like, just play the beat, play the beat. And uh I'll hear it. I'll be like, okay, you need to take your note up right here, man. Take this note, all that is fine, but just take this note, move it up here, play it again. Now it makes sense, don't it? He said, Yeah, that does make more sense. I'm like, Yeah, because it's in key now.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

So he's a crucial question. Does he know where to put a snare at?

SPEAKER_01 48:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

All right, good. He already better than we were. Yeah, he's gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

When he first started messing with my my NPC, he was probably like seven.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 48:58

Around on the pads and stuff, and um I was telling him, just over, you know, gently, like, you know, it sounds good, but you you know, you gotta make it make sense. That's all. It just you gotta make your music make sense when your drums make sense because he would have one part that sounds really good, and next thing you know, it's crashes, and I'm like, yeah, I'm like, it's it's cool, son. But it's gotta make sense, though.

SPEAKER_03 49:25

Like, it's gotta make sense. And the final question um, what kind of um current projects are you working on and how can we support you?

SPEAKER_01 49:33

Yeah, so uh currently Freelance 7 is out now on Bandcamp. It will be dropping on like all the other DSPs. Um, I'm in partnership with you, you know, Ja Freedom. Yeah, beat me. Yeah, shout him out. Yeah, shout out Jack Freedom, man, and whole all my beat freak generals, man. Shout out to y'all. And um we we partnering just to you know split the royalties and spread whatever awareness just to bring more people to the uh beat freak environment. Shout out Starlight too, man. They always nice and let us there. So um just wanting that to be around because for whatever reason, people in Charlotte, other producers always saying, Man, we ain't got nowhere to play beats. Yes, you do. Oh yes, you just need to show up. Yes, you do. You have places, there are plenty of places, plenty of events for you to come out and do this stuff. So um, but yeah, uh free lunch seven. Um, I am working on free lunch eight. Free lunch eight is is most likely gonna be it's basically already done. But wow. I like I made so many beats prepping seven, I just ended up finding the lane I wanted to go with seven, so I have all these other beats. So now it's like you know, taking what my next vision is for eight and just kind of seeing all those align and maybe making some new stuff. But the plan was in between eight, I was going to release another beat tape. Uh this one a little bit more focused on uh more of a modern sound. I mean, all of everything might make sounds modern, but these are like, you know, more of like the heavy eight oh eight, not trap stuff, but still in my style, but you know, just heavy 808, more uh more of a digital sound, I would say.

SPEAKER_02 51:09

Okay, okay. Oh awesome, awesome. And social media, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

So um social media. Um I'm not huge into social media, but no, you aren't. No, I'm not I'm not I'm not like a a poster every single day.

SPEAKER_02 51:26

No, you aren't. I saw that. You ain't lying.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

Yeah, I mean, it's not, it's just that you gotta pop out to see me, man. Yeah, you really gotta come out to see my live. You gotta see my live. My my social media is uh Manny Beats Shy Everything. So it's Manny Beats C H I. Uh that's Instagram, even on Facebook. But if you want to rock with me, yeah, on Facebook, yeah. Just follow my government. Yeah. More accurate on there.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

That's how long that's how I've been following him for years. It's just a regular name on Facebook.

SPEAKER_01 51:57

On Facebook. And uh, yeah, it's I I'm more active on my government just because it's just easier, man. A lot of times, um like being a content creator is not is not easy.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

No, it's not. It's not.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

People people don't realize it's not just getting in front of a camera and turning on, hitting a live button. Yeah, it's a lot more to it.

SPEAKER_02 52:17

Preparation, yeah, preparation. Everything, editing, everything.

SPEAKER_03 52:20

Yeah, I don't know what you're gonna say, what you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

Yeah, say what you're gonna do. And a lot of times after I know for me personally, after I'm finished a beat, like I've expended most of my energy on that beat, so it's like I don't want to have to go and do all this extra stuff. That's just I don't want to personally do it. It's just a lot.

SPEAKER_02 52:40

But this made to be now I gotta get in front of y'all for 30 minutes. Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_01 52:44

So that's you know, that's just a thing. But um, I'm getting better about that. I'm learning. Ja told me he said, you know, you don't change your mindset about the content creation part. You have a product. So you have to look at it like I am advertising my product, yeah, and that's it. So I I, you know, because a lot of times I get in my own head and I'm like, man, my studio setup don't look like this person's, or I don't have this person's stuff, so it's like I ain't gonna, you know, I think I like that. Yeah, why's worse?

SPEAKER_02 53:13

They don't care because you know them kids do nowadays, they make beats on their phone, they be getting their broke up laptop, be walking around making that beat and then yelling on the phone, ha ha ha ha ha ha. And then they put it out, and then all of a sudden they blowing up. Right. Yeah, man. So yes, that's true. Respect. But um, man, we appreciate you being here. I appreciate it. Shout out. Yeah, before I forget, come up here, up here, slipping out, slacking. I'm gonna pimping. Make sure I get this information here. I like to make sure we do this properly. Um, studio. Make sure I'm correct. Yes, I'm good. All right, so I just want to shout out real quick since we're we're in here today. We're in Asylum Digital Recording and Mixon Studio here in Charlotte, North Carolina. We are located, it's located at 226 Westinghouse Boulevard, uh, suite number 304. Phone number for it is 704492-9289. We really want to thank Scott Slagle for allowing us to use the space today. Beautiful space in here. And um, we love to come here when we're in Charlotte to do our um our podcast and meet everybody. It's right on the state line so we can get in, we can get out. So we get in, we can get out. But if you do need uh to book a session to have something mixed or work on something, please drop them a call. Go to their website at asylumdigital.com. Um, from there you can see their rates and what they have to work with. They have lots of equipment in here, lots of good gear. You can get stuff from analog, digital, work on it, how you want to work at it, and you'll get a sound that you will be pleased with. Um, outside of that, we appreciate you for being here on the show today. Appreciate y'all. This is DJ and what? Skip. And our Steam guest, Manny B Sha. We appreciate you so much. Thank you so much, brother. Until the next time, make sure you tell somebody next to them that you love them and you appreciate them. Peace.