Welcome Back And Meet Vitas Shell

SPEAKER_06 1:48

Welcome back to a fresh new season of the Hilltop Glove Podcast. In today's episode, we are thrilled to welcome the talented Vidashell. Born in Monroe, Louisiana, Vidas Shell is a remarkable mixed media collage painter whose work profoundly explores and celebrates the black experience. His art empowers individuals within his community by presenting powerful images that deconstruct, sample, and remix themes of identity, civil rights, and contemporary black culture. Schell's educational journey includes earning a Bachelor of Fine Arts from Memphis College of Art in 2000 and a Master of Fine Arts from the University of Mississippi in 2008. Throughout his career, he has been an artist in residence for numerous esteemed art organizations. Schell's impressive list of achievements includes exhibitions at prestigious universities, museums, and private galleries across the United States, such as the McKenna Museum of African American Art, Stephen F. Austin University, and Miami University. Notably, he has also created murals for the National Civil Rights Museum's NBA Pioneers Exhibit and has been commissioned for public art by the Memphis Urban Art Commission. Vitus Shell's exceptional talent has been recognized with several grants, including the distinguished Joan Mitchell MFA Award. Join us as we delve into the creative mind of Vitus Shell, exploring his inspirations, processes, and the powerful narratives conveyed through

Checking In Around Town

SPEAKER_06 3:16

his art. How are you doing today, my brother?

SPEAKER_00 3:19

I'm good. I'm good. I'm happy to be here. Awesome. Yeah, I got a few more days, so I'm getting a little anxious, you know, getting ready to leave. Darn it. Yeah, I enjoy I've been enjoying myself. Did we feed you well? Uh yeah. Yeah, for real. Yeah. For real. I've been to some good eating spots. Perfect. I've been to the top, the bottom. I've been all over the city for real. Uh I want to say so. No, actually, no, for real. I've visited communities, all the communities. Oh, you really were out here in the street. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I've been over to Greenview, the Greenview area, Waverly area. Um, you know, I've been for real, like places that are being de-invested into, you know. So I have been to like places, I don't want to say the bottom as like to me, the bottom is just like uh like the hood kind of a term for the hood for me. So it's not like the bottom of like the cesspool or nothing. Yeah, yeah, nothing negative. Yeah, nothing negative. But I've been to all of it, man. I've been to the Southern Soul Fest. Um, yeah, you got some good. Yeah, you didn't know. Yeah, like for real, for real. Good, good. We treated you well. Yeah, everybody's been good. I haven't had any uh bad experiences. Um I've had some uh a strange experience, but I I'm not I'm not gonna talk about it on the You sure? Yeah Okay We'll talk about it later. Yeah, we can talk about it off.

Teaching And The Dream List

SPEAKER_06 4:40

Oh, I did want to say this because we were speaking about this early before we started. You do currently teach.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Yep, I teach at the University of Louisiana Monroe. Awesome. Uh I pride myself because I don't know if you should, but I pride myself on teaching at I taught at all three universities in the area of Monroe. Uh Louisiana Tech, Grambling, and then uh University of Louisiana Monroe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

What haven't you done?

SPEAKER_00 5:05

What haven't I done?

SPEAKER_02 5:07

I was reading like your you know discography and all the work and I haven't done the Studio Museum of Harlem.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

That's I mean, that's high on my list. I would love to do that. Like being in New York for a year. Yeah. Yeah, I would love to do that. I think they would love you up there. Yeah, I think they would too.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Uh, but yeah. I gotta figure out how to get on the list.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Speaking it into existence. I have. So you do it.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

It's on my list. Uh the McCall Center in in Charlotte is on my list. Awesome. Uh Fountainhead in Miami. So, um I and um it's one in in um on the e on the west coast, and that's it. Like if I can do those for our I'm good. Yeah, I wouldn't do any more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 5:50

Yeah. I like that. I like the fact that you have a a list.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Man, I've been I that's how I work. I put my list together and I started like aiming at them. Like, you know, I I worked in music and hip hop, so intentional how to do it. Oh, speaking, keep talking, keep talking. Yeah, I did. Uh so like I'm always kind of like planning like in a way like that. And it's loose, you know, sometimes it goes, sometimes it don't. You know, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

You have an altered ego name or it's just V Shell, simple.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Easy. Yeah. When I when people call me V Shell, I know where they know me from.

SPEAKER_06 6:26

Yeah. And we we like to hear uh pragmatic things on our podcast because a lot of folks that listen to this podcast, they're listening for information.

SPEAKER_05 6:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:36

To figure out how to do things that they may have dreams of or thoughts on or plans, right? And it's good to hear for here for people to hear, oh, you know what? I actually wrote these things down, and these are things that I plan on doing

Music Lessons That Shaped His Art

SPEAKER_06 6:47

so that they understand that things don't just pop out of thin air. Yeah, you gotta give some kind of attention.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

So even the the my work in music ha has influenced my uh moods in the art field. So being like aggressive and um uh being able to uh identify with different people because when in music you gotta deal with deal with different egos. Yes. And they have really strong egos at times. So I can deal with a mixture of egos. So like even for my shoots, I can it's pretty easy because I can go, I can read people, you know. In music, you gotta, especially in hip hop, you gotta know how to read the room. Yes. So like in reading the room, like I used to uh manage a label and and and uh you know I have to read the room and I'm like I have to get everybody's attention at the same time. And we gotta move. It's time to move, or it's time to get to the stage, or you know, so it's been times where you know something pop off and you know you gotta you gotta know how to navigate that as well.

SPEAKER_06 7:54

You gotta be a leader of men.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

So uh de-escalate the situation.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've been a de-escalator in a lot, especially being uh the smallest, most of the time the smallest guy in the room. I still have to stand up.

SPEAKER_06 8:08

I was about to ask you that because I was looking at some of these uh some of these pieces of art that you do. Not to say that people are intimidating because obviously coming from where we're coming from, it's not intimidating to me, but I know for some people they look at these people, wait, these people are intimidating. Yeah, they got the gold grills and there's certain tattoos on them and stuff on them. Like, how are you having them sit down to you know stay still so you can do your art? That's how many people ask.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

And I'm like, you know, those those uh I feel like like I was telling somebody yesterday, I grew up in the projects and we moved out the projects. So I've always been a person that kind of have uh been between stride that fast. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I grew up with gold teeth and the the intimidating uh looks that really like a mask. So I know how to, you know, uh ease those kind of relationships, like, you know, that tension. And then I also know how to uh be in a room and have to speak about things I need, or even translate. I've been in a room where I had to translate, you know, the brother, like, yeah, brother, do the woo-the book, and they looking at you and it's like what he's saying, what he's saying is uh translating pill?

SPEAKER_06 9:23

They had the anger translator. Yeah, yeah. Obama, yeah. We come in and translate this thing to the same way.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah, so I had to be the translator in the room sometimes. We trying to take care of business. Yeah, you know, these brothers, they hustle, so they their um mindset wasn't the same as business, like in a corporate sense, but it was like came from over the street. Um things move at a different speed. Yeah, so I have to come in and be like, yo, this is what we're trying to do, this what he's saying. Yep. And then I have to go between them and be like, yeah, this what they saying.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

The middleman. Yeah. You painting a bigger picture. Yeah, that's crazy. Oh, yeah. Literally and physically. Yeah.

Childhood Drawing And First Gallery Moment

SPEAKER_02 10:01

So what first sparked your imagination as a child?

SPEAKER_00 10:04

I was I I man, I did what every other kid did. Every other kid did. Um uh just drew and made things. And I think for me, it was always me trying to understand the world through a pencil, through, you know, how I could um, I guess, uh translate it. Um, so I drew like every other kid. I would uh use my imagination. I always tell the story of me drawing trees, like I would draw trees and house, and the tree would have like oranges or strawberries or watermelons.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

Watermelon trees?

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

But it was me, it was my imagination and me trying to figure out the world. So my my um interest in understanding the world and try trying to translate it was through the pencil, you know. Um, and I think even to this day, I really think that's what I continue to do. Like, well, I don't think I know that's what I continue to do. It's me understanding the world through like art. So I've always been interested in history, I've always been interested in um people. So that's all of the work that that I do.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

Comes together. Did you ever draw on the wall? Yeah. That's what I used to do as a kid. See, y'all pay y'all parents, listen children draw on the wall.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

Look, when I was um, I I'm thinking, I I've been trying to figure this story out because I it kind of it's spotty, you know. Of course, I'm nine, eight or whatever. I can't remember the exact time. But I think we went to an elementary, we went to the local museum, and I had a I took a drawing or mine in my pocket. Yeah. And the other students was like, he, he draw, he got a drawing in his pocket.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

And I and the the guy that ran the spot, I gave him one of my drawings. I know he threw it away. I wish he would have kept it. Like it would have been cool to see it still at the museum. But I went home after that and took off all my stuff on the wall and and put up my own drawing. So I had my first show like that. Yeah, that was my first show. I tell this story all the time, but um that was like the beginning of it. So it is one of those things that be careful how you um, you know, respond to your kids because you don't want to kill a fire that that that potentially can be there.

Parenting Without Killing The Spark

SPEAKER_00 12:38

So my son is a jokester, he always getting in trouble. Yeah. So I have to straddle the fence between like stopping him from doing that and also like allowing him to do it because you know, you listen to the comedians and they like, yeah, my teacher told me I won't go be shit. Right. Is that can I curse you? That's real. Yeah, you're curse. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

And they will have a revenge against the bigger. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

So jokes to get jokes to change.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

Jokes will change. See?

SPEAKER_06 13:11

Is talking about that, like, oh, you're gonna tell me that my my my raps are you gonna take my my cassette and throw it in the trash can. Okay, I got something for you.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Right, right. So I think that's a thing too. Like, as a parent, you gotta make sure you you you uh continue to, you know, uh fuel that fire, yeah, nurture that. Yeah, so um, but you also wanna instill some discipline so he don't get too wild.

SPEAKER_06 13:35

Oh, that's the balance part. And

Siblings, Projects, And Growing Up Fast

SPEAKER_06 13:37

I'm gonna ask you this. Do you have siblings?

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 13:40

Alright, because I can ask you this. All right, all right. So, youngest, oldest?

SPEAKER_00 13:43

I'm the second to the oldest, but I'm also what I've I just learned this term, I'm a ghetto twin.

SPEAKER_02 13:50

What?

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Yeah, so you know what that means. Nah. Have you heard that before?

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Nah. Say it again.

SPEAKER_00 13:55

A ghetto twin. So a ghetto twin is supposed to be like you got a sibling, but y'all got different mamas, but the same daddy. So y'all like a couple months apart.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Oh yeah. So like Irish twins.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Is that what they're considered to?

SPEAKER_06 14:10

But that comes from the same mama. Yeah, but under under 12 months, born from the same mama. Yeah. Irish twin.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

So I'm a ghetto twin. Oh, you're a ghetto twin.

SPEAKER_06 14:20

I mean You got a brother.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

I have a brother, but we're we're like Irish twins. He's like nine months from me.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Okay. No, so the ghetto twin is you got different, you got the same daddy, a different mama.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

No, no, I ain't a ghetto twin, and I'm just an Irish twin.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

So that's what, yeah. So my sister is uh, she's born in September, I'm born in November. Okay. Oh, wow. Y'all are real close. Yeah, real close. So that's probably my dad named Larry. Oh, okay. Okay, understood.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

You see how he looked at you like, yeah, yeah, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

That's why that's probably why my name is Vitus. Yep. I ain't not gonna name.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Listen, my mama did that. My name was supposed to be Will Amina Patricia, and she hurried up and named me before my dad got to the hospital.

SPEAKER_06 15:05

Yeah, I ain't gonna lie, I'm happy it's not Will Amina.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

I am too.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

Yeah, Lord.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Oh so right now. Real talk. Yeah, so don't do that.

SPEAKER_06 15:15

Don't do that. Yeah. Oh no. Don't do that. No, because we were talking about this earlier when we were coming in again, and this is why we always like to ask about siblings and early early life experiences, because we speak to millennials technically, but what we've been realizing now is actually we speaking to younger folks. We didn't realize this, but yeah, you know, the the metrics tell us. And so we like to talk about things um about generational issues, traumas, etc. And so, even like speaking on something like that, like the relationship between you, your siblings, and your parents, how has that affected you when you were growing up and in pursuit of your dreams?

SPEAKER_00 15:53

So I had also have through three other sisters. Wait, four, yeah, three other sisters and a brother. Okay. So y'all. Yeah, but but in my household, it was me by myself for 10 years. My sister was born at 10. So but with my mom, it was just me and my mom and my grandmother was there. So I was selfish. I was able to, so some of my personality is that like only child. Yeah, because I was I had that only child syndrome for a while. Yeah. And then my my bad, my sister was born. So my sister came in where I had to figure out, like, oh, it's not all about me no more. You feel me? But I think like making art or pursuing the career art, being an artist, you have to be a little selfish. Sometimes you have to say, uh, I'm a I'ma um sacrifice this thing to do that thing. You know what I'm saying? But um as a kid, my my family say I was terrible. They say I was bad. I was they say I was like, they said my my grand my auntie, which is my my cousin, my cousin is like my brother. He was like my brother. Yeah. Um his name is Sean. He also did it, did art for a while, but he started pursuing basketball. Understand. Um But his mom said she used to cry when she saw me coming because she knew I would be like, can I come spend the night? And it was just terrible. Yeah, she's all of them, all my family said I was just terrible. And I think it was, it was, it's been a couple incidents, but the one incident that stood out, we grew up in the projects, right? And I remember this one time we were like on the playground, and you know, no, no adults around. Never. And it was these two brothers that came, they was from a whole nother area. They came through and they beat up somebody, and that was my theme. Like, nah, I ain't bad. I'm not the baddest kid. See. Like, this kid, these kids are bad. And it just changed how I started, like, you know, acting, you know. So and I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 17:58

So some real world consequences.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:00

Question, what's the name of the projects that you grew up in?

SPEAKER_00 18:02

I grew up in Burjo on Burjourn Lane. Yeah. Uh Burjourn Lane Projects, uh, BJL.

SPEAKER_06 18:08

See, because I already know there's always, yeah, I wanted to know that. I gotta know that part. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Yeah, I grew up uh over there. Um it's on in South Monroe. Um I went to um Carver Elementary and then Burjound Lang Lane Elementary in the fifth and sixth grade. And it was definitely uh uh eye change, it was eye-opening, it changed a whole bunch of stuff.

SPEAKER_06 18:31

Yeah. Did you have all right, and I have to ask this about because like we grew up in projects too, and um I would say I as a child, I didn't, to me it didn't, there wasn't no problem. I we had community at the time. Um we had elders that were looking out, but we were still kids. We were gonna do stuff that we wanted to do that we shouldn't have been doing, right?

SPEAKER_04 18:52

Right.

SPEAKER_06 18:53

Um, some people was out here shooting out van windows, setting stuff on fire, right, right. Stealing from the store, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Right school, all the good stuff, right? It used to be like uh a group that would go stealing. See? See? It was like uh a crew. It was a crew, yeah. There's a crew that went that would go stealing.

SPEAKER_06 19:11

I gotta tell you. So you know how we used to fund it? All right, so we had two hustles. So if we couldn't steal it to sell it, because we were stealing to sell. Yeah, right? We were stealing stuff to sell stuff so we can get real money. We would steal, we would take parents' EBT cards and go buy stuff before school and then sell it that way. So how did you all what was what was the impetus?

SPEAKER_00 19:33

I wasn't on the crew. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

You were still low, Golo?

SPEAKER_00 19:38

No, I wasn't. I didn't go, it wasn't my thing to go steal. See, that was good. That was good. I wasn't with the crew that went stealing. Um I was always a thinker. Good man. Yeah. So I remember another time, me and one of my partners, and I still see them to this day, um, but me and my partner, we was going to uh the store, and we um we were walking back to the house, like back to where we where we live. But we was coming through the projects, and um this guy stopped us and he was like, hey man, y'all want to make $5? And we both looked at each other. You know, at the time you had Dare. Yeah. And Ellie mentioned they telling you about like not messing with drugs and all that stuff. And uh we looked at each other and was like, nah, we good, we good. And he ended up going back, doubling back. You know what I'm saying? And I just never, yeah, he just he went, started linking up with the guys, and that was his, he was just attracted to that lifestyle. Yeah, that was, and that, and to this day, like he been through like a lot, you know, being, you know, arrested, um, I think being shot, a few things. But he's still the homie, yeah. It's the it's the homie, he the homie, but you know, that just show you like how you can go in two different directions.

SPEAKER_06 20:57

You all were at the same Nexus point. Yeah. You literally split off vector that way and he vectored the other way.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Right, but I still see him and we still we might have vectored that way, but we still kind of come back.

SPEAKER_06 21:08

And I was about to say that, that and I agree with that, and I'm not sure about you, so I know we got we have we have homies like that. There's no love lost. Yeah, they know that, and I will tell you, like growing up, they we had homies that would tell us, no, you can't be here. And we'd be like, Why can I be here? It ain't like that no more. It's not they but yeah, that's what I was about to say. That has changed. That's why I wanted to talk about like we had a community still, right? Even in the projects, there was still a community, and I know that has changed since that time. And like you said, you didn't stay in the projects, you were able, you left the projects and you moved. Where'd you move to after the project?

SPEAKER_00 21:37

We moved in like a working class community. It was you know, not too much higher, but everybody was like happy when we we left, and it's like a celebration, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

That's a real thing.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Yeah, you move out of the project. People do. Moving on up, yeah, you know what I'm saying? That type of yeah. So you you if it's if it feels like that, but you know, me looking back, like we moved to um maybe a notch above where we where we left, you know. Yeah, it was good. My mom had a home, a house, you know, her own home that she was buying and she still owned to this day. No longer subject to checks by the super but I don't think we moved too far above the people we left behind. Yeah. But it I think for them it felt like it.

SPEAKER_06 22:26

It felt like that to you that you left them behind that you I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

I can't remember. I I think I was like 11 or 12 when I left. So I don't remember how how I felt. I think I was just excited about getting a new house in something new. Um, it wasn't that I was ready to like lead them behind. Because it, you know, you it's your homies, it's people you grew up with. I think we moved there when I was seven. You know what I mean? So that was half of my um, what's the adolescent life or whatever? You feel me? So yeah, it was it was it was just interesting, you know. You and when growing up in the project, you have to like prove yourself. Yes. So you got to be at the box a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

You gotta be able to like show up like in a lot of different ways. Um, and that's like things that you don't learn to unlearn till you get older. You know, and then I think that's even interesting thinking about the homie view viewing, viewing, viewing out, yeah, and then coming back because I feel like a lot of people in our community go through that, yeah, go through the prison, jail, uh, especially if they choose that lifestyle, yeah. And then they have to come back, and they usually come back at 30, you know, thirty five, and then they starting to live. Again, right? They have to start pursuing like certain things that they didn't get to pursue. Um, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So um I think it's an interesting uh thing because I me being a community person and me being an artist, you know, I have I live like two different lifestyles at times, and me being a professor, that's what I'm saying. I was about to ask you about yes, that's why I'm asking these questions.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

Yeah, going into your college life. How does how does

Memphis Move And Finding Mentors

SPEAKER_02 24:16

that work?

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Going into college, I I went to um so I was 17, so I graduated, my birthday is in November. So I was actually in school. I was uh I was a little young when I went to college, but I was a thinker, you know what I'm saying? Um I did look at uh home with these rose-colored glasses and stuff, you know, romanticizing about it when I left. But as I um look back, I kind of reflected differently. But I moved to Memphis, which was uh a good place for me. Uh I didn't know it at the time. I I thought Memphis was like hella far from Louisiana.

SPEAKER_06 24:53

It seems like it don't.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Yeah, it did. It did. I uh but it was only five hours, four and a half, five hours away. Um I I applied for Memphis, Atlanta, and Savannah College of Arts. But I I got into Savannah and I got into Memphis, and my dad was like, yo, if your car breaks down, I ain't gonna be able to come help you if you're in Savannah. Yeah, yeah. So it's like that's like an 11, 12-hour ride. So he helped me get to Memphis, and Memphis was good because it was a brown city. Uh, a lot of people own things, and I met my mentors there. Um, yeah, so everything, it was just like everything kind of happened how it needed to happen. I met other young artists that was interested in finding a place for their work. We collected, we, we collabed and created a collective. Oh, cool. Um, the people, my mentors, they would feed me, you know what I'm saying? When you're in college, you're looking for, you gotta find that meal. They would feed me and take care of me and everything. And then I also met family in Memphis. So I got like a second family, a whole second family in Memphis that like when I, if I come to town, they they they feed me. They would feed me then. The mom uh passed away, um, I think in 2022, 2020 or 2022. I do think it was 2022, but um, they still like look out for me. So it's like, you know, uh Memphis, it just ended up being like the best place for me. Uh right time. And I got there in uh '96, and Master P was just becoming like, yeah, like the man. So, and 36 Mafia was the king of Memphis at that time.

SPEAKER_06 26:41

How was the how was the the environment that man?

SPEAKER_00 26:44

It was crazy. I was telling somebody the other day they still had Jerry curls and everything. But they they could they but they're you you you have to look past some of that to like realize like the culture, like they man, they it's so rich, yeah, so rich, it's so deep. Like everything, a lot of hip hop now is influenced by Memphis.

SPEAKER_04 27:05

The whole rhyme pattern for all the raptors.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Right, right, Memphis. But we gotta also think about crunk music was influenced by Memphis music. So Memphis is is is influenced a lot, and then you got but look at Rick Pat. Yeah, that's what I was about to say.

SPEAKER_03 27:21

Isaac Hay.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And even, you know, if you if you decide to talk about Elvis, Elvis was influenced by uh all of that, you know. Um, and my mom loves Elvis. I I hate that I hate it, but uh she loves Elvis. Uh she grew up watching them on TV.

SPEAKER_06 27:40

My mama loved Elvis. I ain't gonna lie. But that's that generation.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Yeah, that's that generation, you know what I'm saying? So um, yeah, so Memphis just, man, it it was everything for me, uh, especially for me at that time. And I'm still like a good pillar in the art curr uh community there. Uh they call me, um, you know, they need something from me. Like I give them information or come be on a panel or you know, come do an extra. Yeah, yeah. That's good. Yeah. Give back to your community. But that was because they gave to me, you know what I'm saying? So especially with my mentors, they, you know, I always

Mentors, Curiosity, And Learning Faster

SPEAKER_00 28:15

go see them.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Yeah, talk about that a little bit more, the importance of having a mentor, but beyond high school, because a lot of kids don't think about that when they're transitioning into college.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Man, I think you need mentors outside of um college. Breach. You need mentors because it's yeah, especially if you're going into a certain field, it's you know, you don't have to burn your hand, you don't have to stick your hand on the stove and burn it. You know, you got somebody else that's already done it, and they can give you some advice on not doing that. So that's where my mentors were. They I would sit there and watch them, they would talk. Um, Brenda, Brenda is a talker, so she would just talk for hours and she loved talking about her process. Um, and I would just sit there and sometimes they would, you know, Evidas, we're getting ready to cook you. You want something to eat? I was like, Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

So, how did you go about selecting your mentors? Or did they just it kind of happened?

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Yeah. So the guy that was an instructor, uh, no, he was his dean at the Memphis College of Art, was a black guy that had just moved back, moved to Memphis from LA. He was a big, big, big, big time guy, big time artist, and I didn't know it at the time, excuse me. But he um he would see me in the hall. He would just like, you know, have like little casual conversations. How you doing today? How's everything? Woo-too-woo. And then one day he was like, yo, is this artist just moved to town? She's looking for some an apprentice, somebody to work with her. Would you be interested? And I was like, Yeah. And I and you know, it's crazy because I didn't have a cell phone at the time. So I don't even know how I did all of the calling and stuff, you know. But they he gave me the number, I called him, and then I went and started hanging out with him. And what I originally showed up for was to help her with her fingerings collection, um, and to help draw, help her draw figurines out. And I I didn't draw her right because Brenda liked to do things in a particular way. So Brenda was like, I got it, but she never told me to stop coming. Just like, yeah, she kept me around. Yeah. Yeah. So um with all of that, you know, I started uh hanging out with her husband who was doing the business for her. So I started learning the business. And with a mentor, it's not always about everything they give you. Sometimes it's about like what you see that that's not for you. Like the experience. Yeah, yeah. So certain things that she does, I don't do. And it was like, nah, that's not something I really want to do. And it's not because it was bad, it just wasn't for me. And I think part of that also comes from like seeing, you know, and then experiencing, of course. You do it and you're like, nah, this ain't right.

SPEAKER_06 31:03

That's a work. Right on what you're saying, everything that that you're that you're experiencing with the mentor, like it says, learn it. Okay, I don't need to burn my hand.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Right, right. The stove is hot. You live and you learn through experience. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, or through somebody else's experience.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

Yes, that's kind of how I grew so much. I ask people so many questions. How did you do this? Why did you do this? So when we're done with the conversation, I know, okay, this is the blueprint. Do I want to go this way or do I want to go this way?

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Yeah. Yeah, it's very important to be curious and ask questions.

SPEAKER_06 31:37

And I think, and I think too, just the point on this for especially for younger people, you don't have to always learn by bumping your head. Exactly. You don't. You can sit and there are people that will nurture you properly or give you time to express yourself so you can learn, ask questions, and not being afraid to ask questions too. I think a lot of uh a majority of the time, a lot of you think that elders, quote unquote, want to preach at them. That's not always the case. They're elders, they're waiting for you to talk and they're giving you space. But I know a lot of you throw wait and be quiet. You know how some of us were raised. What are the young people supposed to do? You're supposed to be what? Seen but not heard. Yeah. I don't think that's always a positive thing. I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Oh, this generation that they're not, they're not. Yeah, they're not seeing it. Uh, but I do believe let's get to the elders. So I do believe elders have to do a better job as well. Because we do too much like point point fingers. Preach. Like uh, y'all not this, that, and the other, and not appreciating that young energy. So elders have to be patient as well. Yes. Elders have to um give and and move out the way. Because once you give somebody something, no matter if they use it now or later, you gave it to them, and it's something that's gonna resonate with them. So that information that you give them, they might not run right out the door. And that's what some elders can do, and that's that's what deter like young folks, you know. Like, you want me to do something just because you told me to do it right now. Yeah, that's not how it works. Yeah, and when you start defiant, yeah, that's a natural, natural way of young people to do something against that. But once you put it in them, you know, that kind of resonates with them and it continues to be with them. So, like, even the kid that go to prison, yeah, that information that you gave him, he's gonna be with them, and he's gonna think through. He's gonna think about that, yeah, you know, later. Like, yeah, you know, I remember Mr. Uh Elwood told me woo-to-woo, woo-to-wow.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

It's like instilling it.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

Yeah, and that's where we gotta do a better job at, like continue to plant seeds and let it grow. The young people not gonna, that that's not how trees or gardens grow. It takes time. So I think for elders, we have to do a better job as well at giving them information and just moving out the way, you know.

SPEAKER_06 34:03

And I I and I I love that. I love that. And I know growing, growing up and being a young person, being a young person, like I'm not being a young person. We not young enough. You ready? You ready? No, this is what I'm saying. Being a young person. Yeah, growing up. Uh, one thing I always I always asked that, I always said, hey, elders, can you please give us some, feed us some information and let us take your place because you aren't gonna be here forever. And I used people used to look at me like, man, why are you up here telling that to that person? They said something you're old and stuff. I said, because that's what's supposed to happen. Right. That's what happened a generation before. It's what happened before then. They always talk trash about the youth. They all it it will all be.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

So you have to be careful you how you position yourself. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:45

You offended them?

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Yeah. You can. You you but you have to be careful because you do trans, like relationships uh change. Yeah. You you uh those positions change. So like even your position with your parents change as you get older, they become childish, you know, more childlike, and then you become the elder, you become the pillar. So you also have to be careful like how you talk to young people and give them information. So if you don't want to be the old man that nobody wants to talk to, yeah. Or if you become grumpy, how do people become grumpy? Yeah, bitter, bitter and grumpy, because you know, uh life has moved past me or whatever. But you have to be um open to uh evolve as well. And I think in that evolution, you kind of like learn things, you learn things from young people the same way they learn from you. So you being a uh student of life, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

So on your journey of being an artist, how did you stay grounded through people like the stuff I do?

Staying Grounded Through Community Characters

SPEAKER_00 35:54

Like um, so another interesting uh Vitus uh story, well, I used to be um do graphic design and I had a a little office space within a kind of mini shopping mall kind of space, right? Kind of like it was kind of like if you merge a um a marketplace and um the the barbershop from um ice cube barbershop together, yeah. Well, you know, we got a lot of different people coming through the spaces. So we used to have like 50 to 100 people come through our space every day. Wow. So in my little suite situation within the in that place, uh, because we did we did inspection stickers, we did, we had barbershop, we had somebody doing hair like cornrows and dreads, we had somebody doing a nail, had a nail shop, we had t-shirts.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

A lot of traffic.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

We had somebody that was a notary, that notary in the space. It was a multi-use space. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in that, like, I would always have interesting people coming through my space, and I learned from them. I learned from everybody. I look at somebody thinking, oh, this person's on drugs, this person's a crackhead, and I learned something from that person. Person, say a gym, and then walk out. You know how like on Chappelle he dropped the mic and then like something crazy like that. And you like, damn, I didn't know this about this person. I didn't know this about Big Goofy. You know, Big Goofy coming in, crackhead or G. We had uh Hollywood, he passed away a few years ago. Big Goofy and Hollywood passed away. But both of them like real colorful people, you know, uh real characters in the community that were on drugs. G would uh the main, it was a main street in front of our shop. G would go out in the middle of the street and dance in the middle of the street while traffic was going both ways, and everybody would be out there, go G, go G. You know, like just like interesting characters, but learning out, learning that G was a person before all his drugs. And he's still a person, right? But um, he was in the uh uh the ghetto, the ghetto, too short, the ghetto uh video. He was in the he was in the actual video, like as one of the druggies, and then moving to Louisiana because he had family in Louisiana. You know, a lot of people in uh Cali have family in Louisiana. So stuff like that. Like that's what kind of ground me and it helped me to realize you can't read a book by its cover. You also have to be um open to learning and you know um just and I wouldn't say that was the only experience, but that's one of like uh a lot of experiences I've had.

SPEAKER_06 38:47

Um because obviously in your your art, you ran into people.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Man, plenty of people, man. And I sometimes you in spaces because of the art and you don't necessarily jail with those people either. Cause sometimes you can be the only black person in the room. Yeah. Sometimes you can be in a room where people that uh uh put ideas that's totally different from yours. Uh I've been, I was um visiting with a a person once, and um a person said some stuff, and I had to check them like yo, that's not cool, and that's not like how I get down, and I don't agree with none of that. Was it about art or it was about just like uh society and aligning, aligning folks, and kind of like this kind of uh what's the what I want to say, uh those mistruths that uh that people truths?

SPEAKER_06 39:48

I'm gonna call it a trope. Okay, because a trope is something that is not actually true that people believe to be law or standard.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

What is I think is it was around it was trying to um you can speak plainly it was trying to um cast somebody as something that they weren't. Got it. And I don't want to say who the and y'all might know who the person is just from just from that. Got it. Got it. It's a prominent figure. No, in a good light.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

Oh, in a good light, okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

This a prominent figure uh that we all have to deal with daily. Got it. Um so uh yeah context clues.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

Use your context clue. No, you are good with your words.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

So um, yeah, so I had to like check that person and was like, nah, that's this is I just read this article on it, so I know what you did what you try you trying to do, yeah, but this is this, this, and that third. So don't do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:51

But you know, you and this, like you always like you gotta protect your sanity, right? You have to. And as an artist, you're a pretty open person as an artist because

Sanity, Social Media, And Taking Breaks

SPEAKER_06 40:59

you're bearing your soul. How hard is that to do nowadays? Because everything is wide open. Would you say that?

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Yeah. Um just being being honest, uh-huh, reading. Um, so so you know, try trying to take breaks from social media. I do feel good that my social media has um interesting uh information that comes through it. So I learned from from a lot of the information that comes through, but also just kind of like also giving yourself breaks and stuff like that. Uh trying to be grounded in what's going on now, where you are. So going to the park and walking or you know, taking a break from stuff. I also my radio don't work in my my vehicle. So I get to drive four or five hours and just think sometimes. Yeah. Um, things like that. I think that kind of helps me to continue to stay grounded. I ride my bike around my my uh city. Um and I don't live in my hood that I grew up in, but I it's like a five minutes, 10-minute bike ride. So I do that. I ride around the city. They see you outside. Yeah. That's awesome. I'm always outside. Yeah. I wish this program had a bike. Um, I would use that a lot to.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

They didn't give you a bike?

SPEAKER_00 42:27

No, they don't have a bike. But I think it's probably like some, you know, insurance issues. They like, you know. That's a good point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 42:34

Think about that. Yeah, a lot of people. Yeah, they don't want to be loud. The city of Columbia sidewalks don't treat them like that. Yeah, we still got the blue bikes.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

I ain't seen a blue bike.

SPEAKER_06 42:44

Because they moved no, no, no, no. They got rid of them.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Yeah, a lot of cities have been getting rid of bikes. Because people were leaving them everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 42:51

I do. Charlotte's pile with it. Everywhere in Charlotte. People were leaving them.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

And then um, I was somewhere out in Memphis, they would um those scooters, yeah, yeah, they would take the scooters and and uh deprogram them or take them so they can so they would keep them. People would use them. That was scamming.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

People are gonna find a way.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Yeah, it is. They took, you know, they could de um whatever, take all that stuff loose. Right. Right. So yeah, this p yeah, you know, they do different things with them. So and then so the city started like kind of like saying, okay, we can't keep allowing these things. Yeah, for certain, it's for certain places, but certain places still have bikes and stuff. Yeah. But it I think it's uh, you know, in the south, we we you know, we don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

We don't appreciate bikes or a bike just on the propped up on the side of the road at a light. That's how it is. Yeah, because sometimes they be putting around.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

I don't know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

I see some props up.

SPEAKER_06 43:57

They just be like, they just take it.

SPEAKER_03 43:58

It's like the person gets off.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

They just roll. It's like they run it, they jump running or something. I don't know about the propped up. I haven't seen a propped up bicycle. I've seen them like just laying like and across somebody on a business in front of a business or something. That's it.

SPEAKER_06 44:15

Yeah, leaving things and go.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

That's interesting. You must be in a whole different part of town or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 44:21

I just be driving around Charlotte, like after our podcast up there.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

Wait, wait, let's not talk about you and driving either. Like after your story. Back to your artwork. Right, exactly.

Why Collage Fits Black History

SPEAKER_02 44:33

So you use a lot of mixed media.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

So out of all the materials, what pairing do you like together?

SPEAKER_00 44:39

I don't I don't have, like, I like to, so I am a 2D person. I'm not good at three-dimensional things, uh, never have been. I've I've I in college, I took about five classes of sculpture, and I feel like I was probably the worst student my professor had ever. Because I would make things, but I wasn't good. I just don't feel good at making three-dimensional things. Yeah. But the good stuff was um is the 2D stuff. So I love doing anything 2D, uh, drawing, printmaking. All of these works have all of that stuff in it. Painting. Um, so I like doing anything 2D. Um, um, what else? Um, I like doing a lot of collagen. So the work is excuse me. The work is collagen in so many ways. And it's about like the layering of where we are, you know, is we didn't get here in some bubble. Like, and I think like a lot of times when people talk about the black experience. For black folk. It's about like this flat, it's kind of like this flattening perspective of like what happened. You know, the the kid in the park that was shooting or got shot wasn't an incident, just kind of happened out of nowhere. Like it's been history to get us to this place. You know what I'm saying? Where this is even a thing. Like this whole thing of guns and and an American culture, like this um the ghetto, ghetto fine of blackness or ratchet, ratchetedness of blackness that that's happening. But I love ratchet, like you know, ratchet was started in Shreeport, Louisiana. So I don't have anything about being ratchet because the boosters say it's we all got a little ratchet in us. And I agree, we are we, you know, and but I my ideal of ratchet is different because I think ratchet is this ghetto, this uh this demonizing that happens with black blackness. And the when you take the demonization from it, you see that twerking goes back, right? Far back. Right. You see cornrows go back, you see dreads or locks, whatever you want to call it, goes back. So all these things that the the shape of our bodies, you know, is natural, but the demonization of it allows for um us to be policed a certain way. So, and then we even start policing ourselves in a certain way. You feel me? So like that's what the work is about, like really like dissecting and and remixing and re-repositioning like a lot of things that that we look at or that's been looked at for us uh through this kind of like white lens, and we have to like kind of start to rethink that and then recentering ourselves again, you know. So yeah, that's what that's what I think I don't know if I answered the question. I think I just went on a tangent.

SPEAKER_06 47:58

I'm a follow up, yeah. Me either. I'm gonna follow up. No, you answered the question. You answered the question. I think you're making up a question. No, watch this, because this is what you're what you're talking about, is something I like to focus on. And as I was looking at your art and I was going through it, and I was actually researching the materials you were using, and like the the clip the the magazine clips and the news clips. My wife's like, what are you looking at? And I'm like, I'm like, look, this is what's in the art. And I was going through and we were searching this stuff up, and the one thing that popped in my head was othering. And I was like, othering, othering, othering. I'm like, he's showing in the art that we are actually very much the same, that the history, things are tied in together. Like some of the products that you were using, like this is cod liver oil product that I was looking at. I was like, this is weird stuff. My grandma had me using cod liver oil, and etc. I was taking it when I was a kid. And then like the cars, the different things that were in it, and I was like, this is interesting because I wouldn't even think about it. Right. Being tied, this is me as a as a person who's black. I wouldn't even think about the tie-in to that and how we envision ourselves as a part of the total fabric of America, right? Right. And I thought that that was interesting. And I was wondering, do you choose those materials purposefully?

Thrifting Archives And Intentional Materials

SPEAKER_00 49:11

Like what is the everything is per uh on purpose. Uh I like I have people come in the studio. I've been having them come in, especially yesterday, uh, talking about um the curating that I do. So I do a lot of pre-curating, right? Because I collect magazines and I collect um I collect all kinds of stuff. Where do you get this stuff from? Um, all over the place. Sometimes people give it to me. Sometimes I go find it in the markets, uh uh thrift stores and all of that stuff. And it's crazy because thrifting has become like cool, the cool thing. Yes. But when I started it, it wasn't a cool thing. So I could get stuff for pretty cheap. Now you go find a Michael Jackson magazine and it's $20. And I'm like, damn, it used to be a dollar. I can get three for a dollar. So it's like the the grandparent talking about give me a quarter to go get the candy. But um more. Yeah, it's it's definitely a change. Um so but I got Buku magazines. One of my cousins just gave me a crate, two crates of Source Double XL. Oh crazy. Oh, yeah. You better wild out. Yeah, I got so I got some stuff, man. Yeah. I got some stuff. I got plenty, I got so much crazy stuff. Um, and then sometimes I just like like if I get magazines that don't fit what I'm doing, I kind of take them to my classroom and let my students use that. Chop them up. Yeah, they can use it. Um but yeah, that's what that's what's happening in the work. So it's about like this, you know, collapsing of time to to to really be able to analyze it and and really uh sift through it in a way that you can you can compare things uh without having to, you know, uh think about this long time time timeline. You know, so that's what the work does. It's comparing, um, it's giving us time to just be. So it's doing a lot of things at once. Yeah, at once. Very complex.

SPEAKER_02 51:12

I like the the FUBU.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

Yeah, yeah. The Fubu was like one of my thing back then. Yeah. But it was also like about the concept for us by us. So us recentering self and not only the product, but in like in in how we do things and how we see each other see ourselves. Yep. So now I was thinking about the Fubu and but putting it in this uh high uh fashion kind of design. So kind of like Gucci and Yeah, nah, that's dumb.

SPEAKER_03 51:44

Yeah, yeah, Louie.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

Yeah, so it's I put it in a a way like that, but also link making a link between us and our brothers and sisters and across the across the globes. So that that kind of African pattern and all of that stuff, like but like in this high-end way. But we also know like high-end, uh What is high-end? That high well, the high-end clothing brands also steal a lot from the design. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

I saw that on TikTok the other day. They was breaking down everything.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

It's a lot of stealing. It continues to still be.

SPEAKER_06 52:17

Some of them couldn't be trademarked, yeah. Some of it couldn't be trademarked, and so it's gonna be coming back up for release, and so a lot of those prices are gonna diminish. Yeah. I didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

Yeah, so I'm playing around with with a lot of different ideas. I feel like I I feel like I wanna be, like I tell people I'm a hip-hop artist, but making visual art. And I want to be Nas or Andre 3000, but I feel like I'm more like a ludicrous. Uh so I'm I'm able to like uh make jokes about things, make it fun, uh, and I'm all over the place because ludicrous, like when you listen to a ludicrous record, it's gonna be all over the place. But it's it's witty, he's smart, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's so complex in the in the use of language. So I feel like like my goal is to be like gritty and um introspective like Nas or Southern and um Futuristic. Yeah, futuristic. I was about to ask you about this,

Hidden Symbols And Unplanned Meanings

SPEAKER_00 53:29

yeah. Yeah, um that's my goal. Those those are my goals. So how do you go ahead? No, no, no, you go.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Do you ever have like hidden messages?

SPEAKER_00 53:37

Oh, I mean, all of his hidden messages.

SPEAKER_06 53:39

That's what I was that's what was so dope about it. Like I was looking at it, and my wife was even looking at us. She was just like, Do you understand what this is?

SPEAKER_03 53:46

I was like, Well, not yet. Let's find out. Right.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

The leaves are connecting to these people, the people in the red pieces are um from Western Salem. When I visited Winston-Salem, oh you already know. Yeah, I already know it. Go ahead. So I visited Winston-Salem, and one of the museums is an old um plantation and plant tobacco road. So these are tobacco leaves. Yep. Uh, not intentionally, but the red, black, and green came through the pairing. That wasn't intentional, but it's it's definitely you can see that.

SPEAKER_02 54:25

Well, you know they're complementary colors.

SPEAKER_00 54:27

Yeah, well, they are complimentary colors, but it's hard to mix a red and a blue, red and green. When the last time you seen somebody wear like red and green, and it's like, that's dope.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

Only on Christmas. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 54:39

Yeah, it's that's not a dope color. That's not those colors. But for me, these work. Yeah, yeah. And and and it the pairing of the red, black, and green, the liberation color, uh, liberation colors of Yeah. So, you feel me? Like that was unintentional, but it came came together.

SPEAKER_06 54:56

That's wow.

SPEAKER_00 54:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 54:57

And I I'll tell you too, I like um, I like the the pieces that you were doing. Um the gold and the white and the brother with the gold. Yeah, those are dope. Yeah, yeah. And the concept behind.

SPEAKER_00 55:11

Oh, that you you're talking about the one um SERP. Yes. Yeah, he um, so he's from that was he's from Alabama. Okay. The Sweet Home Alabama on that piece. Yeah. Ah, that's it. So he's from Alabama, and I was at the time I was thinking about all the things that's going on and like how there's a disconnect between black folk and what's American, what the which is the narrative and like, you know, how black folks have done so much work. So in the piece it had the um red, black, it had the red, white, and blue in it, but the red was the uh the red and blue was the um what's that? Um like the cripple and blood flags. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was the red and blue, and then the white was the um, I think it was a f um, I forgot what else I had in there in the background, maybe the Florida Lee or some wallpaper. But that was kind of like playing around with the what what I was thinking at the time about all this kind of conversation around black folks and uh being uh us being unpatriotic because we want better. We want the country to do better. And it's weird because that's that's the way we think about things. It's just that we want better. We don't want the the we don't want to continue in this role. It's not like we want to destroy this thing. We are which should be like the the maybe the way we should be thinking about it, but we just want better. Yeah. It's like the abusive parent, want an abusive parent to love you better. You know, that's what that's how black folks have always navigated this this this this country. But it's weird that we always told, like, no, y'all not my kids. And we like, we you had me though. Right, yeah. Right? We've been here from getting right. Yeah, like literally. So, yeah, so yeah. Uh, but yeah, it's always hidden messages. Sometimes it's messages that I didn't even intend to do, put in, put in, but they kind of come together. The um go series, go, I call it my um the go everything series, which was uh stemmed out of me the bow-a-bout a masterpiece and all that stuff. Yeah, the lyrics. Me playing around with the bling bling, um, all that. And then also uh thinking about the history of goal and go with us and us being go, you know, um, us being important, us being us having a chance to exist without, you know, uh having to question or be questioned, like all that stuff. Because that that came after George Floyd and all of the the policing that was happening and still happening, yeah. Um, where people are just being arrested or or even beaten or or taken to jail just for or killed just for um being black at a uh at a

Art As Propaganda And Politics

SPEAKER_00 58:07

at the yeah.

SPEAKER_06 58:08

So I have a I have a question to ask about that when we're just talking about arts and politics. Do you do you ever feel afraid? And I know what answer may be, but just so audience can hear, do you ever feel afraid to produce or place art out because the response it may receive or backlash?

SPEAKER_00 58:27

No, um, I just I don't know who said it, but I just heard this. Somebody said that all art is propaganda. So you might as well be intentional with the art that you make. So even like if we thinking about the people that make ducks. Yeah. Duck paintings. The duck paintings, yeah. Right? Yeah. That's propaganda and it and it is uh leaning into what's the ideal of America, this kind of hunter, southern, you know, kind of culture. So I think all things kind of in some sense um connect to what's going on in society. So um that's also why I'm like big on using hip-hop as um the ground, the grounding of my work or blues music or any kind of music, because it connects to um like this, like the politics and and and what's what's going on now. And no matter if we like it or love it or or feel like it shouldn't be, it is. It is, right? We didn't think about thinking about now. We didn't think about when Snoop and all them cats was talking about money over everything, money over bitches, and how that would play out in real time. Yeah, and now we're starting to see it, right? Yeah, yeah. Money over everything. It's money over uh politics, yeah. Everything over food. Over the communities that you grew up in that he grew that these artists grew up in. So we're starting to see that play out. So um, and when we think about the bling bling era, it was about prosperity, it's about people wanting to own things in a way America likes to own things in the most grandiosest way. Right, exactly. So we black black folks have always done music in this matter-of-fact way. Like this is exactly what it is. We're not coding it. This is exactly what it is, and even when you think about the the abstract uh uhness of jazz or the abstract trackness of um the the backpackers rap, uh it's still really um connecting to all of those things, like the real matter of fact of what's going on. You know, they were a lot of those cats, um, especially in the 90s, they were a part of 5% nations. True. And um they were searching for like what real um history um the black man was uh aligned with. So none of this stuff was is ever being produced in a bubble. It's like really connecting to what's what's going on in society. So if you want to talk about even more contemporary, where people have problems with um all the the female rappers and stuff like that, the women rappers. Like we have to look at what's going on in society and realize this is a part, they're a reflection of what's going on in society. They're they're talking about it, they're talking about their needs, they're talking about in a direct way. Yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:50

And cause and effect. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

So it's not this thing to my speaker. And then we we forget like that it was guys making the same music 15 years ago. Yes. And everybody was cool, yeah. No problem. You know, so you know, we have to like really realize that. And I think that's so that's what for me is really like thinking and listening and uh reflecting in a way where um I'm constantly evolving and making connections between the two things, you know, and then realizing too, like we rap music is way more complicated than uh little Boosie or you know, anybody that we that's that's popular right now. Like we got other people that's doing music that's complete opposite, yeah, you know, and that connects to like the working class um black folk that go to church and just work every day. So we can it's it's all kinds of things, and we have to stop allowing uh others to um to um continue to flatten that kind of conversation around us, you know, and it's good to see like what's going on in the art field because it is folks that's showing up in different ways, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:09

I would say because our culture is pretty damn cool. Yeah. Like I hate to say uh most the the most hated, but also the most uh imitated, right? The most loved, desire to be right. And and and it's because in some ways other cultures are themselves inhibited from actually expressing themselves. And if you've b been through as much trauma um as our cultures, we understand what is what do we gotta lose? I'm gonna go ahead and just express myself, right? Uh speaking of that, you're your father, you are an educator, you work in art, you work in the real world, you deal with high-level um thinking, thought, organization, institutions. Are there things that you see that go on culturally and within art that you have that it's hard for you to split when it comes to okay, what do I expose my children to, or was it okay for them to be exposed to, and what should I be exposing and teaching my students?

Teaching Taste Beyond Algorithms

SPEAKER_00 1:04:17

Um I I try not to I well I try not to censor stuff. Um I try to let it be what it is. Uh even for my kids, I try to keep them in museums. They both artists anyway. So yeah, they they don't they don't really care about daddy art, but they be like, who can we uh can we go, daddy? Like dad trying to paint, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:46

I just got here.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:47

Yeah, uh when we at the museum, you know when I see daddy work on the way. Oh yeah, is this it?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:52

Are we doing it?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

Exactly, exactly. Exactly, exactly, exactly. So, yeah, so um, and exposing my students, I I think it's hard because they sometimes are so narrowed in on what they like. Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. Like, yeah, it's hard to kind of like try to give them a more, but I try to give them like lists of things to kind of look at. Yeah, I try to make them go look at artists. I give them like prompts like every week to say, go look at somebody that's outside of your bubble, that's not on your Instagram feed or TikTok feed. Yeah, and go maybe find a book, yeah, you know, to go look at them. So um I try to give them that type of thing, challenge them in that way. So they can see other artists doing other things and artists from different cultures, artists from other subgroup, subgenres, you know, artists that they might not ever have pay attention to, um, but looking and learning. But you know, I think it's one of those things that it takes time, uh, and they don't always get it right then and there. Yeah. Um so, and but I thought your question was going to uh this this thing of like things that you kind of have a problem with in the field. Oh, we're getting there. Okay, okay. I ain't gonna jump the gun. I ain't gonna jump to the gun.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:23

Nah, you can start. I can jump right into it because you're gonna go. Yeah, okay. What kind of problems are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, some of the problems is um the money, in the money, you got people that don't values don't necessarily align with yours, right? And you making this work that address certain things, and it also makes you question like, am I talking to the right? Am I making work for the right audience? And at the end of the day, you are, because it does go into collections and museums and spaces where multiple people get to see it. And then you also have to be purpose, have a purposeful in how you uh put your work in places, right? So, like here, and then making sure the right community can't see the work or being part of it. Um, but sometimes also another thing that I've been really um grappling with, like talking to friends about, is also being a black creative in the field, and then most of the people that are in the field that are black creatives don't come necessarily come from the same background. Yes. As as as I do. I I like me growing up in the projects, me still having friends that, you know, um that you know that. Grew up with yeah yeah yeah so my cost yeah it costs it cost money to man I went to Utah two years ago to Zion the Zion National Park man do you know like what it takes to get there like first not the the money that it costs to get there yeah Skip knows about that yeah then then being able to afford to travel through those spaces yeah and what it what being there it made me think about all of the homies that can't afford to go get there all the kids I grew up with that net would never see that but it's a beautiful one of the most beautiful places in America but they'll never get to see it also when I went to San Diego on the beach uh in uh was it Alejo Leo I think it is that that neighborhood same

Money, Class, And Gatekeeping

SPEAKER_00 1:08:41

stuff like some people will never get to see this right so like when I'm in when I'm working in my field I feel like a little disconnect sometimes with some of the black folks because sometimes their thinking is also aligned with um the sponsors that that that that high that that kind of thing right coming because some of them come from like middle upper middle class um but they're talking about black folks but at times I feel like maybe they're talking about not all black folks they're talking about some of the issues um that all of us deal with but not in a way that's directly to our community like to my the community that I'm a part of so and it's frustrating sometimes because they also are gatekeepers as well. So the way I kind of navigate is like like sometimes I don't get included in stuff that I should be included in. But what's what's been the grounding part for me is my community really supports what I do. So I can ask for certain things. I can go and be cheered in that community. So it helps me to not always feel like an outsider in those spaces and knowing that it's something probably something wrong with the way this system is set up. You know I remember a couple years ago everybody was talking about inclusion and it was weird because these black folk were being included in these spaces but were still being gatekeepers. It's like wow like how how do we complain about inclusion and then start becoming we become what it is we hate. Because that that's trauma a lot of times right that trauma that same trauma um people didn't include me now I'm not including them. Those folks didn't um never like me in school so I'm not in you know those oh my lord Jesus to learn to teach yeah yeah and as you become in you be you get into a certain place of power you have to learn that you have to also release that you can't can't use it on pe on people because you you do gain a certain power. And it goes back to what we were talking about earlier with the elders and the youth revisiting living in through those same traumas over and over again yeah and we repeating it yeah and when you start studying you do learn about the Boole and the Jack and Jills the the the deltas and the aka's and all of these uh things that uh these social clubs all these things that have existed and have excluded their own folks from participating and you know like I was telling somebody uh about uh the Jack and Jill stuff but you know up until a certain point entertainers couldn't participate in those kind of high society black groups either they was getting money they might be able to afford a house in a certain neighborhood yeah but they couldn't be uh they weren't being included in those those organizations they're still servants yeah yeah so it's yeah they didn't see them as um that talented 10 kind of kind of uh educated uh business owners um type of that that that higher end kind of working class so they wouldn't allow them to be in that because it also their kids would end up marrying and being in cahoops with those kids so it's kind of like you know these things you learn them and you say man dang we continue in these kind of yeah so it kind of continues to happen but have you seen any I gotta quick I jump in and say this because I know we're running on time but I got yeah two more questions I know I want to ask but being from the deep south have you seen any differences traveling to the to the east coast and the southeast with black culture here as opposed to Louisiana Mississippi yeah yeah yeah the South is black and white yeah uh in a lot of places uh I don't feel like uh Columbia is black and white I feel like it's it's a lot of uh it's a mix and then finding out that it's 40 48% white 45% black and then everybody else yeah uh it's interesting because and then you in the city you can see like black folks are all over the city yeah in other cities I've been it's definitely clear this is where white folks live this is where black folks that's I'll be trying to tell people about club I'll be trying to tell y'all y'all don't realize you got opportunity it's definitely a good mixture of uh and even when I went to the Soda City Market mm-hmm like I was like oh shit like black all kind of black folks out here oh yeah and it it's not like just like you know snooty black folks uh and it's not like just snooty white folks it's

Travel, Oxford, And Surviving Ole Miss

SPEAKER_00 1:13:39

like all kinds of people out there and I thought that was pretty cool to see that you know everybody know that they could they're they they could go to uh the market or uh I went to uh first Thursdays Oh man yeah I you know like just seeing like I was like that's kind of cool I like that I like that but in Louisiana it's definitely black and white like you know your but what I gotta say is like you know your place yeah it's definitely black and white black folks live over here white folks live over there and black folks are I remember when I was in Oxford when I went to oldness how was that definitely black and white the black folks that you see are usually in uh certain susservient positions are they students wow and I always tell people anybody that went to Omis was really good at whatever they did they was either really smart yeah really talented or very athletic and it wasn't the same for the for the other group because these are kids that come from families that got plenty of money like it's some of them yep some of them families' names are on the building so I would have some kids and I'm like okay I don't know how you got here but okay okay but black students which we were 10 black and any other colored uh people of color that were there we were I think 20% of the school population maybe 2020 something like that that was in the 2000 10 20 yeah yeah um and everybody was really good at something that writing exceptional yep jumping out the gym yeah could shoot a basketball run a football get me started on sports being super smart really you know everybody started everybody that black that was they they had a purpose they was really there and deserved it to be there um so yeah that was oh miss that's crazy yeah and I I it was it was a it was it was definitely hard coming from Memphis that's what I was I was trying to figure out why did you make that decision to go to so the only reason I went I had an instructor from undergrad and she was there and she was like yo we got I had a show there in town and she was like yo we got some spots and I was dating this girl she was getting her her master's no she was getting her formd okay so I was like you know I you know maybe maybe maybe I should get my a higher a higher degree so we're gonna be together um and yeah that was why that's why why I chose it and I was like it's just gonna be two years it was a three year program yeah it was it was it was definitely interesting and if it wasn't for my boy Will that worked at the gallery my boy Casimu that's a writer and a photographer in uh New Orleans my boy Jonathan uh my boy Josh and a couple more cats um I don't know if I would have made it it was definitely tough it was a it was a challenge wasn't it yeah it was it was yeah you had to go through them saying yeah it was definitely uh different very different and um the the the apartment I stayed in was owned by a black guy and he might have been like you know one or five or something that had like had it like that. Yeah wow fortuitous yeah I I was saying he had come he came from family that had money see that's the land and then he decided to to build an apartment complex and it was on the on the uh edges of the town really so I can I could oversee the city but it was like right on the edge like the Kroger was right here and then it was a car dealership and then he he was right there on the edge and then if you kept going black folks lived back in the projects and those were like the people that worked in the kitchens and that supported the yeah exactly did you feel safe did I feel safe for the most part except on game day so I never went to a old miss game easy not a football game because you know the town go from 20 I think 15 to 20 thousand folks to like a quarter of a million people for the for football weekend oh it's wild you never heard of that little area that you had the little walk yeah yeah the whole town that yeah yeah yeah so I would I wouldn't I wouldn't get out and go do that I would just go to the studio and do some work my other partner uh he he he went to a couple games but I was like nah man yeah I was like nah they still got the flags out there where unless you want to be you ain't safe yeah I wouldn't want to be that the first uh black person to get hung in a in a while preach preach that was my that was what I was thinking I was like uh I mean cool and I'm gonna tell you so incidents so one time I was on on game it was after game but it was like still afternoon like four or five I'm walking across campus you know I'm a little bit more fit than I am now uh and a lady stopped me and I had my dread my dreads used to come like right right in here a lady stopped me she was like ain't you the football player and I was like yes ma'am I was like no ma'am yes ma'am no I'm like no ma'am she like yes you are I said no no no I'm not and I you know I still you know carry myself in a certain way and I can see like she can see like you know I do look like a no I don't really look like a football player but no you look like you're gonna run it back of the DV is I'm a hundred pounds lighter than the dude she thought I was wow at the time I'm probably like a hundred and forty fifty pounds that drink was in the system and he was like two he like I think he was 225 two 230 or something like that I know who you were talking about Ben Jarvis Green I knew who you were talking about she was saying she was like yes you are and I was like no ma'am I'm not him and they people so this what this what made it funny yeah because I would go to the gym and shoot balls sometime and everybody be like man you look like Ben Jarvis Green Ellis man you look like so when she stopped me I knew what she was saying trying I knew who she was getting me confused with I'm saying no man I'm not that's not who I am oh yeah so I'm not he from New Orleans too it could be my he could be my cousin and don't even know but I'm like no man that's not me she's like let me take a picture with you we took a picture together and everything so this lady I probably she got a picture up somewhere on her addresser of me as Ben drink Ben Jarvis Green Ellis and I'm like and I know her kids just laugh like that's not Ben Jarvis Green Ellis that's not him uh they probably like no that is him look mom they probably got a card next to it and everything in jersey did the signature and everything she was fine I should have it was crazy it was stuff like that when that would happen like just throw you off and you're like ah this is this is definitely like a whole nother universe um it is it really is it it's a paradise it's paradise like they would have so they it was a dry county so on Saturday nights at 12 o'clock the club shut down the look you couldn't buy liquor none of that but they would have these after sets at the house at people homes where you can go hang out and it's drinks it's like build drinks and of course you know they got the snort snort room somewhere nowhere so everything all that and I remember another time when uh um they they oh they would always have concerts at the at the frat houses and the frat houses look like plantation homes they were plantation homes I'm talking about the most massive yeah dorm situation for the frats yeah the white frats and they would have the top like entertainers come through we used to have that we used to have that called Charleston we had Walker Flocca Gucci Man all of that all of that right down campus for free crazy as long as you got your idea you come in and then they have a room that's filled to the roof with beer and alcohol it's just crazy it was the most bizarre thing I had ever bizarro world I was like man ain't no way like and guess how many um black fracks was on black Greek um organizations was on campus? Zero it was one when I first got there one or two nope really Mississippi is a um uh Sigma Sigma dominant sigma Sigma's run Mississippi wow yeah so sigma's had a place and the aka's had um slave quarters kind of preach that's what it was we know it was so small yep it was crazy it was the craziest thing I ever had Mississippi y'all yeah it was very crazy so the Qs had got kicked off campus obviously I don't know if the Kappa's ever had a space but it was just crazy the Sigmas was at least able to have like a nice size uh house on campus for a second but they they got kicked off um but yeah it was it was it was just crazy and then like we would go to like parties and stuff and at the time I'm like between 27 and 30. So when I by the time I graduated I was 30 but the football players like it would be like seasons the football players ran campus the basketball players ran campus. So we would go to like we would go to the clubs and at that time I was still not too young so I would go to some of the hip hop clubs and the football players would be just acting crazy and they'll be getting into it with the locals. Oh no and I'm like this crazy so it's not even many black folks here and then now y'all like y'all massive anyway I took a class with two football players and one of I I took yeah I took a class consistently with two football players and then I took another art history class and it was it was they was packed in there. It was like eight of them or something. It was an easy it was like eight of them and eight of them played in NFL that's craziness that's how like that's how that's what kind of system they had. So they had um uh Michael Orr from uh blind side he was in the class um the two boys from from Florida um the ex-quarterback and the punt returner they were both in that class uh Mike Wallace was in that class who played for the Steelers in the in Baltimore um and it was a couple more people all in that one classroom yeah it was crazy it was crazy so they can get their grade yeah it was crazy it was crazy but the um and in that club that night it was just I'm like y'all y'all too big you know how you like can't be in here man too big to be even trying to hit on these local the locals the locals just regular Joes yeah regular dudes yeah it's like y'all too big and they like I'm about to get it on and I'm like me and my partner we just like and it's like this it's this thing of what what's what's the purpose of college for black folk yeah yeah it's you become sophisticated you become um knowledgeable yeah you become a leader yeah that goes back home and brings develop that knowledge but you're in this space acting a fool acting a dog and I when I tell you I'm not exaggerating the like somebody grabbing them like the Hulk yes massive hold them these are you these are SEC play athletes are technically they're NFL players so they're massive in college they're not like regular college where you know they look like a high school person or now these are massive people like 6'8 6'5 285 yes and can run like a you know how you like think about a bear that can run really run a small thing down this bear yeah that's what the that's I'm like this is this is bizarre like I remember this one kid he was he was 6'8 and playing tight end and he didn't make it to the NFL and I was like how how can he not how can he not make it what he did he was so big like what did he do wrong like they were huge so yeah it was it was a it was a very interesting uh experience being an old miss and some of the material for my work I found in the top corner of the library they let you take it I took some of it but I also made copies of some things but yeah yeah it was that was so I'm looking through the library searching through the library I'm sorry I'm going long I was searching through the library and the very last place I look is where I find what I've been looking for. And that that that became the groundworks for my work. That's crazy inspiration is everywhere yeah I

Creating Space With Creative Circles

SPEAKER_00 1:28:00

always say too like that was my grad school experience but Memphis was my real grad school experience because that's when we start talking about uh artwork from this more like black centered kind of perspective we would talk about church and all of that stuff so when I got to Ole Miss it was more about like just having time to focus my instructor the person that brought me there she did introduce the the foam print stuff yeah um to me but like it was more like I wasn't she always told me I wasn't a printmaker I was an I was a painter and all of that stuff. So yeah Ole Miss was more of a time for me to practice really get into it and and really figure out what I was doing. And then when I came home when I came back home I became more grounded in what I need to do because I was in a community and I was at the ground level I stopped making art for a little while and really became a community person and learned like my how to use my powers to serve to serve yeah to advocate to create space and that's what I continue to do now is create space. I I love bringing folks together to like get them to start seeing okay this is the collective and this is how we're gonna do it. So like right now I I uh back at home I've also uh I was co-founder of the black creative circle which was to bring black folks into the art spaces I would go to shows and wouldn't be no black folks there about five of us and you know you you at the you at the black show you like this you good you good you know You get at not because you know ain't number three of us in here. So I wanted that to be different, and that's why we we we we put the group together, and then I also was a part of I'm also a part of a artist table, which the artist table is the more group that's for for everybody. Okay, yeah, that we also doing. Good. And that's been like to help to create space for black uh the creatives as a whole to uh really speak on like the things that we need done, you know, because they want, you know, our space is for black creators, but it's also open for anybody to come. So we have, you know, program. People can come to, you know, we of course we have our own personal meetings where we can talk about stuff in private and safety. But they wouldn't come. So we we had to, you know, I had already started this a while back, and I just kind of like leaned back into it to to uh open it up where people realize like this is more about the bigger picture. You know, and then we also still have our events with Black Creative Circle where we can focus on talking about stuff that we like to talk about.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:58

Yeah. And I like that you said like because this whole idea of community is very important because community is a safe place that you can actually express yourself without feeling judged or feeling like you have to speak and in code or anything like that. Especially for artists, I think it's very important. I hate the fact that there are some artists who feel like they can't actually express themselves because for fear of fear of retribution or losing of sponsorship, cancel, cancelation, yeah, all that stuff. That's not cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:23

And guess what? When speaking in code, artists speak in code with the work they do as well. Yeah, we don't realize it. Yeah. So if you don't feel safe or feel like you can, you make safe work that don't actually address things that you need to. So you feel like, oh, I'm making work that everybody can relate to. Yeah. And I think that's what the organization that I was a part of in Memphis did, made made safe space for us to talk about it and make work that uh that that was that was aligned with that. And I feel like the group that's in Monroe is about that as well. It's trying to get us to center self and realize and in and then in that conversation, uh others can relate to the story if they choose to. Uh, and I think a lot of times we we think we think backwards and uh not making, not forcing folks to uh uh get out of that bubble and put themselves in the same place that we always have had to be in. Because we've always had to like learn from others. We always had to look at the the uh uh lever to beaver or whatever these shows photos. Yeah, and then and play and put ourselves in those places, right? Yeah. So seeing ourselves in that. So a lot of times other communities don't have to look and see themselves in our play in our place. So I think it's important to make work and be okay with if people do or don't. And then it's gonna be it's it's actually good for them to see that's it. Yeah, to see something different.

Shows, Support, And Mentees

SPEAKER_02 1:33:05

What do you have coming up or what can we expect from you?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:08

What I have coming up, um, I have a show in Omaha, and that's what some of the work in uh in that in the studio is addressing. Uh that's September the 12th, I think. And I have um a small show in Brookhaven, Mississippi, at the um at the library, um, but it's in conjunction with the Mississippi School of Art, which is uh uh uh a high school, uh art like a magnet school. Yeah, like an art magnet school uh for Mississippi, for the state of Mississippi. Um and that's another like one of those things in me connecting with folks on both levels, like you know, not only just going into museums um and uh university spaces, but also going directly to the community mural care. Right, right, right. That's all about being going directly to folks. Exactly. Yeah, meet them where they're at. Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:08

How can people find you or support you or donate towards you?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:14

Uh I I guess they can visit my website. The Shell of Vitus is uh everything, all my platforms, uh Instagram, my website, my TikTok, um, my um um uh my uh MySpace. My uh I'm joking. I don't have MySpace.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:36

Wait, let me take a shake.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:38

I've been trying to get back into my MySpace. I don't know what y'all are talking about. Hey man.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:41

And one more question. Are you accepting mentees?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:45

Uh yes, I I mean I man, I I've raised so many artists and uh young uh uh and mentored all kinds of folks all across the country. Uh and I don't I don't never really think of myself as a mentor for them. I think of as a peer as somebody that can share information with them because I learn from people as well. Yeah, you know, you don't you don't know everything. Um so yeah, I feel like I'm more of a peer a peer to a lot of people, but I've raised a lot uh being a dude from the hood. I've raised a lot of young young brothers and I talk to a lot of them to this day. Um and uh yeah, so yeah, I'm I'm definitely open to all kinds of conversations because that's a friendship to me. Yeah, it's not a mentor, I'm not mentoring anybody. Uh I'm not above folks. Um yeah, we're I'm learning at the same time. Yeah.

unknown 1:35:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:42

I guess when I get like 90 or something, I feel like I'm more of a mentor. You know, when nobody can't tell you shit.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:48

Yeah. You got the staff. I told you.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:50

My father. That's it. What I said is what it is.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:53

Yep. One last thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:55

I'm almost out of here.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:56

You got 30 seconds on this one. You ready for it? Oh, Kevin, kick us.

AI Threats And Physical Fundamentals

SPEAKER_00 1:35:59

AI and art. How do you feel about it? It's gonna be crazy to see what comes out of it. Because I've also witnessed paintings done using AI already. And not that people are painting with AI, but they are creating uh the idea from an AI and then painting it. Oh. Yeah. So it's gonna be interesting to see how that kind of plays out.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:29

Umia, this is why I had to ask you to do that. And that's a part of what I'm a physical.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:36

Yeah, I'm a physical tact, tactile person. And I feel like what I'm doing is a extension of like me working in Photoshop. Because I do this, I do all the same stuff, collagen, creating backgrounds, creating environments, cutting the people out. Yeah, it's all layers. Um and one thing I try to even how I teach, I'm trying to get my students to really lean into like learning that process because I do feel like AI is gonna be a monster that eats up a lot of the digital art. Like people look the kids love digital art. Yeah. And for me, it's a little hard to get into because I like a physical thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:17

Yeah, and you learn through the experience.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:19

Yeah. So I'm encouraging in my my class that, and sometimes they hate it, but I'm hoping that they start to realize how important it was. So they can you can always go back to your digital work. But this learning this physical thing, yeah. I'm hoping that they get it.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:37

And everything that was in the digital came from the physical, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:41

All the little things that you can do. Exactly. Explaining it. Yep. That's explaining that like this Illustrator is uh your desktop. Yep. It's your yeah, yeah, that's that's how you work.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:51

Fundamentals are important, yeah. People don't understand that. Right. Fundamentals build the foundation.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:55

So yeah, they sometimes my students be like they hate me because I'm asking them to do too much time. But I think they are kind of coming around. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, I think they coming around. You want to say as an artist, they can survive. But they don't they don't care until they graduate, yeah, and then they go and get a job at, you know, uh local grocery store or something like that. And it's like, yo, this is why I explained to you this, that, and the third, and this is why I was trying to get give you. And I realized I'm like, you gotta take it serious, that serious. Uh, and getting away from your entitlement um fully. Not well, I'm gonna say partly, because I do I think entitlement is good in some senses. Like you entitled to what you can do. Freedom, love, yeah, yeah, you know, those things. But uh for some of it, you're you you have to let go some of that entitlement and realize you gotta do the work. Yeah, earn it. It's so many, and and another thing to the to the entitlement thing, it's another artist that's 60 years old, that's been doing it for 40 years, that's amazing, that don't have no, he he's not thinking about retiring, and you trying to take his spot, yeah, or you trying to compete with him. Not really take his spot per se, because you can't take somebody else's spot. Like LeBron James. Yeah, yeah. He's still there. Yeah. He's trying to get some of the things. But the difference between LeBron James, LeBron is gonna age out. Yep, yep. But an artist don't don't age out. Preach. We don't age out.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:42

Do you have any shout outs you want to give to

Shout Outs And Final Reminder

SPEAKER_02 1:39:45

anyone?

SPEAKER_06 1:39:46

Yeah, before you leave, leave this, uh, unless you're state of South Carolina, city of Carolina.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:50

Oh, uh, I I wanna first I just give a shout-out to my mom and dad. Uh because they, you know, part of why I'm here. Of course, God, creator, uh, however you title him. Um all the people that's been a part of my journey. Because it's been uh very uh, it's been a lot of people, and I think a lot of times we think about artists, we think about this this person just was born talented, but that's not true. So I'd like to give a shout out to all the folks, my family in Memphis, my new family in Memphis, my family in Louisiana, my family in Mississippi that support me, still support me. And uh 701 for bringing me here. All the folks in Columbia that's become a part of my extended family. Uh my people in Alabama, that's my extended family too now. Uh they probably watch the podcast. Uh and uh they support me as well. It's just like you know, numerous other people, my people in Omaha. Um so I shout out to all of those people, my kids. Um, yeah. So yeah, all my family and stuff. They, you know, they they probably want to be called by name, but I ain't got time for it. I just told y'all it's a thousand of them on both sides.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:11

Oh man. Well, man, we appreciate having you here today. You made our day. Always like um, we don't normally get to do Sunday episodes, but it's nice to have a Sunday episode, especially in this beautiful place. It's awesome. Yeah. It's really nice. Um uh as we wrap up, we always like to tell everybody make sure you tell somebody next to you that you love and you appreciate them. You don't always get a chance to do that, and we don't want to miss out on those opportunities. But with the Hilltop Club Podcast, it's DJ and what?

SPEAKER_02 1:41:38

Tamaia.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:40

And our esteemed guest, Vitas Shell. We appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:44

The Vitas Shell. There we go. From the Wiseman High School. So I gotta shout out my high school too. Go ahead. Ain't nothing wrong with that. Class of 96. Until the next time. Peace.