Welcome And The Indie Music Question

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Alright, welcome back to the Hill Top Love Podcast. Of course, our host today is Skip. Hill Top Love, you know, we explore where culture meets economics across the Carolinas. Today we're talking about independent hip-hop, the realities of building a career find a major label behind you, and what it really takes to turn music into a sustainable business. Our guest is Junior, a Charleston-based MC who represents the independent side of Sacrofida hip hop culture, from recording the release of music to building relationships within the local scene. His story gives us an opportunity to look beyond the music and into the business behind it. With that said, I want to go ahead and welcome Junior to the show.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Hi man, but having me on. I will say the intro is a little bit more generous than I would say it needed to be. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm necessarily an established independent artist to where I can represent the music scene here in Charleston. Okay, okay. But I will say I'm an aspiring independent artist, would say. Okay, so why would you say that? Uh to be honest with you, because I feel like there's a certain criteria that needs to exist to really kind of establish yourself as an artist these days. Yeah. Obviously being active on social media, things of that nature. If I'm being honest with you, I don't really have much of a social media presence. I don't have, I don't have fans per se. You know what I mean? So what I what I will say, and I'd be happy to kind of get into a little bit more in depth about this. Um honestly, the last couple of years since I've really kind of started pursuing music in this capacity has been more or less just me kind of experimenting, figuring out who I am as an artist. Yeah. Not to sound very, you know, almost pretentious or when I say that, but it is kind of just uh it's just kind of messing with styles and stuff like that, stylistically, just trying to experiment, figure out who I am as an artist. You know, I was twain to me before we got started. The whole idea of like rebranding and even changing the name. So I mean, there's a couple things that is an evolutionary period going on right now, if you will. All right. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

So there's question for some so life. So where so let's start off, let's start off my square word.

Growing Up Military In Korea

SPEAKER_02 3:57

So upbringing and background, that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Oh goodness. Oh, okay. Um, so military bread. Okay. Uh my dad was army 22 years. Okay. So I was actually born in Germany. Um, born at a military base that I believe doesn't even exist anymore. Oh wow. I want to say the hospital that I was born at has actually been turned over to the German government since that period. Okay. Um, but I was there for maybe six months, uh, moved around a lot, spent predominantly most of my upbringing in South Korea on military housing. Um and that's kind of where I got, you know, introduced to hip hop, if you will. Was it probably Air Force? Army. Army. Okay. My dad was army. Okay. Only 22 years. Um and then, you know, I think my dad, I even retiring when we were over in South Korea. Um, I'm also half Korean. Okay. So I have family in Korea, you know what I mean? Um, we were a little bit further down south from when where they were at. Um, but we you know, we were maybe three, four hours away from K. Okay. Right. Um, so we traveled up there fake on me. But um, yeah, no, I you know, I ended up coming back to the stateside. I want to say it was 2008. Um, I was over in Virginia, so CD Hilton High School go Bulldogs. Okay. Um, I was only there for nine months, honestly. I don't really care. No, no, we had no stake, honestly, in the team's success, if I'm being real. Um, just yeah, just uh I was at CD Hilton High School though, okay, um, for nine months, and then my dad decided to take on another job, uh military contract. So he was a DOD contractor. Yeah. Um, so that's what he was doing while we're in Korea, and then he came over stateside, decided to get more into the management aspect of things, got ambitious, and then decided to uh to various down here. Um, and so yeah, kind of established roots after that. I graduated high school here, had my son here. Okay, how are your son? He's 15. Oh, okay, yeah. He just turned 15 recently. Um, yeah, he's he's he's he's he's a handful. Is he trying to fight you yet? Not exactly. Uh we have some spirited debates, okay, as I'll say, you know what I mean? I do encourage my kids to ask questions, uh, almost to a detriment, if I'm being honest with you at this point. You know, it's like careful what you wish for. Yeah. But like I was always very adamant with my kids wanting them to ask questions because as a kid I wasn't able to do that. That was military, yeah. My way, the highways are going to do. I wish no disrespect to that upbringing or anyone that pursues that as a parenting philosophy. But with that being said, you know, my kid, he is a very well-spoken, he was he's willing to speak up for himself and he's very kind of confident in that regard. Um, but yeah, no, he's he's he's he's he's a handful. But yeah, he's he this is his hometown now, and so when people ask me that question, it's like, so where are you from? It used to be that long drawn out I was born in Germany, I moved to Korea. Now it's like I'm from Charleston. Like I'm here, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Like I've been here the longest anywhere in my whole life. So that's cool. So what would you say? Of course, I know you most people you're gonna say Charleston because you're here. What would you say? What's probably your favorite style?

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Uh only because I feel like there's that that curse of nostalgia that we all kind of go through, you know what I mean? Um, but Korea for sure, man. The time in Korea was unmatched. Um it was just the most it was during my formative years. So, like, you know what I mean? Leading up to my freshman year high school, yeah. I was spent there, I grew up with a lot of these kids there. Um, so it was just that they kind of I think the nostalgia is kind of causing a bit of a bias, if I'm being honest with you. Okay. Um, but but but then again, like I said, Charleston is, you know what I mean. I obviously had my son here, um, and it's been it's been home. Yeah, you know what I mean. Anytime I travel out of state for for work and everything like that, um, I'm itching to get back here. Yeah, I don't know why. And then as soon as I actually cross the threshold and I actually get off I 20, I 95, and I get on 26, I'm getting back home and I'm just like, I can breathe. You know what I mean? So it's Charleston's home now, man. I don't know how to describe it. It's weird. Awesome, awesome.

First Hip Hop Memories And Early Influences

SPEAKER_02 7:46

So, hip-hop, right? So I know you're like I said, I know you're an artist, and I know you say you call through a couple of changes as far as which brand, what you're gonna do. But before all of that, yeah, what was your first, like, what was your first experience with the culture?

SPEAKER_01 8:03

With the music, I would say uh Eminem, man. Like he was my intro if I'm being honest with you. My sister was big into hip-hop music, so I was I was maybe in the fourth grade when I first came across rap music, and we were still dealing with CVs just now getting into the MP3 territory, yeah, which I feel like is a lost thing on us. Um yeah, I'll get into that in a second. Like and oh, it's so funny. Again, perspective is so key because as a kid, man, when you're downloading that music, you're not thinking twice. No, I just see like I'm a kid in a candy store. Yeah, you know what I mean? Lil Wayne's physography, Eminem's dysography, you know, every distography and like this entire like all their albums into one, you know what I mean? But what you don't realize is you know that that was taking money out of people's pocket. Again, perspective is so key, you know what I mean? As you become an artist and then you start wanting to actually monetize your own product, now you're starting to see it from like their point of view, it's like I didn't realize that's what I was doing, you know, as a consumer, you know. So it's just I don't know, it's it's it's it's interesting to kind of have that evolution, um, and not to go off into a tangent there. But uh what was the question?

SPEAKER_02 9:11

No, um, just your first experience like with the culture itself, like what got you into hip hop? Like, what's like your first memory of hip hop?

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Just listening to MM, man, uh, and just just thinking to myself, like, wow, this is this is not anything I'm used to, obviously. My parents weren't really big. My mom's an Elvis fan. You know what I mean? She's South Korean, but she's big into Elvis.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

It's not like a thing, it's not like a thing holder, is it? Is it?

SPEAKER_01 9:33

I don't know. I don't know. I never paid close enough attention very honestly. Uh my mom was as big into Elvis because I feel like my dad was into Elvis kind of. Um, and my dad was into like classic rock music and stuff like that. So, like Eminem and rap music to me was just very contrarian based, if that makes sense, in terms of what I was used to, and like what my parents were used to, obviously. So I think so. There was like an aspect of rebellious nature spirit to me at that point, yeah. Where I was just like, yeah, and and of course, Eminem, you know, Will Smith does have to cuss in his sell records, but I do. So you know what I mean? So I was like, everything was like it was like, what am I hearing right now? Um so it was just really kind of fresh, and then that was kind of my first foray into it. And then from there, dude, there's just again, just just understanding rhythm and and and and the the intricate nature behind writing and the delicate detail that was involved and how there it was so many different styles and subgenres, you know what I mean? Um, I just I started to gain a big appreciation for it. And again, my sister being big into hip hop, yeah. Um, she was doing her thing, you know what I mean, experimenting and stuff and figuring out who she was as a person. So she was listening to Juvenile.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Oh, she was putting me a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little time, time allowed. All right, so I'm interested now in your sister. Okay. How did okay? So I get your pathway. I don't know. How did she get into the Hot Boys? Is she older or younger? She's older, five years older.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So how did the Hot Boys doing all that? So I mean, she was listening to the Hot Boys in Juvenile, probably when it was like uh our freshman year, maybe sophomore year in high school. And I mean we had we had we had school events, yeah, you know what I mean? So like uh we had military kids over there, and that was that was the beauty of it, was like, you know, you think about America being like a melting pot. Yeah, well, you had certain situations where you had people from different backgrounds, ethnicities, you know, religious backgrounds, like and the thing about it was we were so in close proximity that it was like a proximity thing, you know what I mean. So obviously during the school dances, you had hip-hop music, you know what I mean? You had Nellie playing, you know, it's getting hot in here, you know what I mean, and everyone kind of emulating what they were seeing in me and stuff like that, man. So it was it was something that we kind of just got exposed to and it was just it was part of it. Um you know, it was just it was just kind of part of it at that point. And so yeah, my sister was kind of the one that really kind of put me on the hip-hop. You know, she she bought me, you know, shoes, you know what I mean, Air Forces, my first pair of Air Forces she bought for me, you know what I mean? Like just this little stuff like that. She took me to get my ears pierced when I went through that phase. Um, I had no business getting my ears pierced, but you know what I mean? Like again, uh, and the thing about it over there in Korea was it was so funny because like um it was it was just dirt cheap. So like the style and and buying the clothes, like the jerseys, yeah, football jerseys, basketball jerseys was a big, big thing over there. Um, and so you know, we would call it Osan shopping, and so we'd go to the Osan Airbase out there, okay. Um, and right off base, you'd have a bunch of vendors, and it was a bunch of counterfeit stuff. Yeah, fake shoes, fake jerseys, fake everything. But but the soldiers ain't that shit now. So, I mean, they wouldn't, you know what I mean? They would be selling it. And so we would go Osan shopping, and we would just go out there, man, and you'd go out there with 200 bucks and come back with a new wardrobe. You know what I mean? You're talking three, four pairs of fat farms, you know, like just it was just it was it was wild out there. All right, and everybody knew what it was, especially. Oh my god, that's what I'm saying. Back I mean, there's a couple of rackets that got busted while we were over there that I heard about. Um, a couple guys were actually selling a bunch of that stuff in mass and then like shipping it over and everything, and they got trouble, you know what I mean? Like something somebody finally caught onto it or whatever. And uh they got into some trouble, man. But yeah, no, it was it was it was a big racket over there, dude. We counterfeit game, clothes, all that stuff was just a major part, and then obviously the media, you know, we only had certain things to watch. So I lived off base, yeah. So I had like the Armed Forces Network, yeah, but we had movies and stuff, right? I mean, so you got served. That was one of our first, you know, like watching You Got Served was just like it was it was kind of like this the same, huh? They could do it. Absolutely, man. It was it was always just kind of been been kind of a part or of my kind of upbringing at this point, in some way, shape, or form. Um, the first time I ever got exposed to an actual rap artist uh was my boy Kendall Harris. Shout out to Kendall Harris. Okay, um, he's on Instagram, he's pretty active. Okay, I think he teaches boxing and stuff like that. He's doing very, very well for himself. Super proud of him. Um, there's a lot of folks actually from my school band that are doing very incredible things. I prefer shouting them out. They should be getting interviewed, in my opinion. Um but he was he actually used to perform for his church. Okay. Um church performances as a rapper. Uh, and then the first time I witnessed him and another guy that he knew, they performed at their talent show or whatever. Um, and so that was like the first time I got like I was around it, you know, in proximity of it, if you will, someone that actually was taking the art form series and doing it uh in one capacity or another. Um and then yeah, when I got here over uh stateside, South Carolina, when I got down here, um a friend of mine ended up becoming one of my best friends, uh, was really big into the rap game. You know, Will Wayne was kind of his idol. Uh I was the kind of I was idolizing Drizzy at the time. Drizzy was just like coming out in that era. Yeah, yeah. Like J. Cole was just coming up another era. But like Drizzy and Young Money, that was you know, so far gone. Yeah, that was that was that era. Um that's when I really kind of started paying attention and really it started out as just kind of messing around, man. Like my boy was doing it, he was rapping all the time and everything. We'd just be sitting in his room smoking, and just we were just kind of freestyling, you know what I mean? And then of course I was very wordy, you know what I mean? Always, always, always have it. I'm I'm a nerd. Um, but you know, it's just like again, I got to writing and stuff, and again, I always appreciated a lot of people's different, you know, writing and their pen game specifically. Yeah, lyricism is a big deal for me. I it is I don't know how to describe it, man. It's just it is so it's such it's so important to me. It's not everything, obviously, it's not everything in terms of hip hop, like just because you're good lyricists doesn't mean you can make good music. You know what I mean? Like true. I'm a big battle rap guy. That's the other thing. Battle rap than the battle rap. Okay, but one thing that has been said about battle rappers, and this is not me dissing battle rappers, yeah, but they suggest that you know battle rappers have a hard time making the transition into popular music, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

So it's different. Yeah, it's a whole different way to put the song together versus one. That's what I'm saying. It's both respect, like equally respect, you know, both both talents, but absolutely it's different.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

And that's what I was alluding to like the last two years. Like, I can't consider myself to be an artist because again, I haven't checked off some of the baseline foundational boxes, I feel like, you know what I mean? In terms of just songwriting, song structure, and just being able to just do different things with your voice inflection. You know, using your voice as an instrument. Uh, it's it's it's key and fundamental to this whole thing. So exactly.

Writing Fast Then Editing Like A Scientist

SPEAKER_02 16:19

Because now, like I said, so last week I was just doing some research. Okay, and I got check out, like I said, I got to check out a couple songs that you guys recorded on the mixtape. Yeah. I don't know, like I think which was the one. Um, was it um the grandma? Grandma's grandma told me. The grandma told me. I really like that's probably my favorite, uh, one of my favorite something. And let's like I said, I like your voice too. I like that. So when it comes to like writing, what do you how would you? I know, so you got you know, you have folks that they can sit there, you'll hear these stories online. Hey, I sat there, I heard a beat, I wrote a song 15 minutes, right? And then you got those people, they gotta take time to write a song, they come back to it. Like it might take them like a couple days, right? So they got like the right words, they're complaining, the message they're gonna complain. Well, how do you you describe the writing process?

SPEAKER_01 17:05

See, it's so interesting. That's such a good question. Um I wanna say it's more the former than the latter, if I'm being honest with you. Um what I will say is that I've used I've I've written a lot in the years. Yeah, like I haven't recorded very much. I've more recorded more in the last five years than I have since I've like been writing. But I've been writing since like 2010. Okay. Since I pretty much got out of high school. Um and so I mean, in terms of just I I would go with the former only because like I feel like inspiration when it strikes, you gotta hit it while the iron's hot. You know what I mean? Um so I'll usually throw on a beat, feel it, and then I it is one of those like the song it writes itself in 15 minutes or something. Um and then I end up spending two or three days after that recording, editing, and just kind of you know going mad scientist with it um in the editing room. So for me, that's kind of always how it's been. Um I will say that there are certain songs that I have taken a longer approach, and it has been very, very, very particular in terms of making sure the the syllable count is right, and it all lines up, and you know what I mean? I don't I don't miss a beep if you will. Yeah, um, no pun intended. So it's kind of one of those things where it's just like it just really kind of depends on what it calls for. Um if there is a particular message that I am trying to convey for sure, but I also am a firm believer, you know, like uh in terms of just like feeling it, yeah, just feeling the moment, you know what I mean. That's one thing that I I've noticed as as an artist too, is there's you can sit there and record something all day, but if there's no feeling behind it, nobody's gonna care. Yeah, it's it's not about what you say, it's about how you say it. You know what I mean? And sometimes that's it, that's more important, I feel like. Um, and so for me, if if the inspiration's not there, like they're gonna hear it. You know what I mean? They can't really fake the funk when it comes to that. So I feel like whenever the inspiration hits me and I'm feeling it, I I want to get on the mic immediately. All right, get on the mic immediately and start recording. Try to get the hook knocked out first, and then you know what I mean, but start building the song itself. But um, I'm a bit all over the place as a creator, man, if I'm being honest with you. There is no kind of one size fits all. This is my exact approach that I take for every you know, record that I end up on. Like for the songs on Southern uh Slaughter, volume three, that was more or less uh holiday was just running through beats randomly one day while we were up here, and I heard it, and then immediately, like I said, I could just start hearing the words already, if you will. And I just kind of started writing, and then we started kind of just chopping it up and getting to it. Um that to me is like more Yeah, it just dep it just depends.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

I don't know, yeah, I don't really know. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. It's no problem, it's no problem. So I knew for me, like I never like I've always loved music, um, as long as I can remember, especially hip hop. I never wanted to write. Like you know, back in the day when I was younger, like you know, I'd be hanging out with like family, friends, or whatever. And they might want to start writing. And I might put pick up a pencil and I'll put it on the right. That's the closest I got, right? And I just never actually I just wasn't aware of my interests or my town a lot.

Music That Educates Expresses Or Entertains

SPEAKER_02 20:10

But for me, I look at music, um, any type of music, yeah. I use like the three E's when it comes to music, or like at least an attempt of it, right? So you got music to entertain, you got music to educate, and then you got music just to express yourself. Right? And it's like for me, it's like either one of those three categories. Right, right. Um, for you, um when you listen to music, or not even when you listen to music, just like when you when you create music, like which one of those categories do you think your music most often falls underneath? Oh, that's tough.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

That's tough. Because there's like part of me that wants it to fall into this category, but there's other part of me that's like I gotta be realistic. Yeah. Yeah. Um I think it would have to be more in the educate. Yeah. Um you say educate, entertain, and what was the last one? Express. Express, okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

So think about it like this. I don't even believe right example artists. So entertain might be some it would be like somebody like a Drake that you had mentioned. Right? Whereas educate our goal, I'll go, let's go contemporary with this one. Let's just say, yeah, it'll say like Cameroon, because we're just taking over for hours. Like we're just massive people. Right, educate. Um, and then we would say express would be somebody like an Eminem. Right, because you're expressing feelings for things that might have happened to you. Not necessarily teaching, you're just sharing your experience. Right. Right. Absolutely. So how would you what would you probably say?

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Oh I want to consider myself to be versatile in the sense of being able to cover all three, but it's just being kind of you know, pretentious. But um it is well to me, I don't know, it comes down to I want to be able to do all three, but I think for the most part what I have found to be more aligned with what I'm doing is um education and expression more so than entertainment. Okay. I just because I feel like entertainment is what someone finds entertainment may be different, it's all perspective based. You know what I mean? It's all subjective, I guess. So like to me it's more expression-based. And again, that's not to suggest I'm trying to take myself too seriously.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Yeah, of course. And that's and what I mean, and what I mean by that, like I don't mean it from like there's no I don't have like positive or negative connotation on each of those. Yeah, yeah. Just like just generally speaking, that's kind of an approach. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

If I'm being real, like for me, it's been hip-hop's been educational. Yeah, I I don't I don't think hip-hop gets enough credit in terms of the educational element that it actually offers. You know, Jay-Z said a wonderful line in Renegade with MM. He said, Do y'all actually listen to music or do you just skim through it?

SPEAKER_03 22:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Because if you actually take the time to listen to some of this, there's so much wisdom that's being passed on and conveyed. Yeah, it it's and it's timeless. Like they it apply, it's uh it's like the way all cliches work. There's a reason why these cliches are all clichés, yeah. And and not to suggest that you know artists nowadays are just regurgitating or simply repackaging things that have already been expressed, but to some degree, you know, some of those ideas aren't necessarily original. Um but what does make it original is the form of the expression and how it is reflective of the current culture and state. Yeah, you know what I mean? I think that's what's important. Is some of these things are lost on us over the time, over over over the years. We forget our history, if you will. So it's really important that you have folks out here that are able to speak. know those things and bring those things to light and still kind of force people. Um the problem for me though is is you know Kendrick said it best is like how'd you let a conscious rap rapper go commercial? You know what I mean? Like like because because the the the the real essence of it I feel like is is it's it's music has been used to kind of pacify people.

SPEAKER_03 24:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

You know what I mean? Like music has a profound impact on our psychology whether we realize it or not. Yeah. What we're hearing and listening and subjecting ourselves to on a daily basis. These are mantras. Yeah. It's the things that you're repeating. You know what I mean? So like there's there's brain chemistry and neurochemistry that's at play that I don't think people take into account. And I just really appreciate the artists that take the time to balance all three being able to express themselves in a way that educate people as well as entertain people. That's how you know you've mastered the art form. And that's why I cannot go so far as to consider myself to be an artist. So to kind of flip it and bring it back on the ease like I I would suggest that I have yet to master all three of those. And so to me I'm not I'm not a full-fledged artist in that capacity in the same way that a J. Cole or a Kendrick or even a Drake. And again I know a lot of folks that there's a lot of stuff going on in in the conversation right now regarding rap and the beefs and stuff like that man but I got love for it all dude I don't know how I don't know how else to put it like I got love for it all. Like Kendrick just dropped the RB record with Janae Heiko and that's I've been bumping that thing heavy. At the same time there's some stuff off of Drizzy's records that dropped earlier the summer that I'm bumping to every time it's like I don't know man. It's I don't know it's weird.

Kendrick Drake And What We Want

SPEAKER_02 25:17

It's interesting um so I remember when that whole beef started and I can um switch over fully today. Yeah. But I remember um when I was just like sharing my PNR with some people and so for me I don't like I'm I'm a fan of both of them right now I think the older I got I became more of a Kendrick fan. That's because I just I just got older and just the music just his music's more relevant to me speaks more to me. Whereas I know just as an adult or just somebody who understands music in the industry and business that Drake's music doesn't speak to me. Or is it because it's for younger demographic that's make his music small that's it's not personal to me. Right? Like I don't you know I don't I'm not mad because I'm just I'm not in young and I'm not in the club though. I don't care you know just right school man right but I know for a lot of people it was like man it was like spiritual warfare it was like spiritual warfare whatever just like going back and forth with that beef. And this makes you realize like at the end of the day man it's just and I think you you mentioned this too it's really just like what's the purpose of it like how are you like how's it in like like what are you getting from music that you're listening to? Absolutely you know and is it something that you get like I said makes you feel better if it makes you think about life you know as you may give you a different perspective um maybe helps motivate you to do something that you need to do to construct that's cool. Maybe you have a rough day maybe you need to just act for a little bit forget about so far. Everything moderation or just know that someone else had a worse day and that's what you're hearing on record.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

That's true like sometimes some records yeah don't feel bad records yeah

Parenting A Teen While Making Music

SPEAKER_01 27:05

yeah yeah no that makes a lot of sense so um and I gotta um bring it back to this so with you um your son what does your son think about your music I think my dad so he's yeah I was about to say my dad I think he sees me as the the tryhard dad that's trying to stay that's going through a midlife crisis that's trying to stay relevant and trying to stay hip. And so he doesn't he doesn't take it seriously if I'm being honest with you. And he's I don't want to say he's necessarily embarrassed about it but like I will say that anytime his friends are in the car and I'm doing like a car play test or something like that. Wow you I do I do use him sometimes as a as a means but sometimes you know he's in the car when I do car tests and everything. And so he'll immediately look at his friends and he looks for their reaction which I always found to be very interesting. Is that he's he's only going to give me the stamp of approval if his friends do seemingly you know what I mean which there's there's there's there's some fear for loss precisely but there's also that the his his drive for approval comes more with his own preference regarding you know how he actually feels about you know that's what I keep telling I was like dude like tell me if it's trash like if it's garbage and it's like bad please turn this off let me go. But I think also when he hears me on the microphone and I actually maybe find some pockets when I'm rapping and he's just like oh hold on now like is that my dad kind of has to do like a double take and he's just like he has to remind himself that it is just me. But I I would probably say for a lot of kids man that's how they see all the parents are just like this is just what they do. Yeah you know what I mean they're just like they don't sound particularly good because they hear our voice all the time. Yeah you know what I mean so it's just like it's not anything unique. So I don't know that'd be a good question to ask him honestly um I would say that he he's not trying to follow in my footsteps if you're yeah he's not itching to get on a on an on track with your pop you know with pops or anything you know um I've actually you know encouraged him to kind of write with me and stuff like that but um no I mean he's not he's not yeah he's not interested in in that in that capacity um but he's also not like super like ew why are you doing that you know what I mean it's not super embarrassed about it either. I mentioned it one time while we were at school and he was at pop we're at school kind of like we're in public dude we're in public you know can't talk about that so I think he's just a teenager trying to figure out and doesn't want to get embarrassed you know what I mean and if I'm being honest with you too though I'm his parents I'm supposed to embarrass him yeah I take a lot of pride and joy in being able to embarrass him so if I know something that I do gets under his skin a little bit I don't really necessarily have a problem with that. Like so I don't know um yeah I just hope it gives him the confidence to kind of just do what he wants to you know what I mean like pursue things that he's passionate about and um you know yeah just just just do do do what he wants to do ultimately um not necessarily in that capacity where like it dominates everything have a balance yeah you know what I mean but if if you're fortunate and privileged enough to pursue something um I think it's definitely worth doing you know what I mean yeah um if you get to that point and I haven't I've I've obviously had a not a dream necessarily but you know I've always desired being involved in in in music or entertainment at least uh in some capacity um but like with my kid though I'm just I don't I don't necessarily want that for him. Yeah if that makes sense man makes sense I don't know the entertainment industry is just not it is a uh it's a lot of take from it you know what I mean I just don't know I want him to not have to deal with that I guess and be spared of it so like I said he's not interested to join up here so you know what I mean like that's and the reason why I asked that um is so a couple weeks ago

Why The Industry Can Feel Dangerous

SPEAKER_01 30:35

my daughter and I so I have um six year old okay and she loves Michael Jackson she has okay loves Michael Jackson so we watched the movie Michael and one of the things that um I realized after watching you know because of course the algorithm starts feeding you stuff once you start watching it's so weird man how it works.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

And I was watching a video about his kids. Alright so whatever people might think about his kids, whether they're his or not whatever, right? That's beside the point. But one of the things they kept talking about was even his children was how he was intentional about keeping them away from the public eye particularly from the music industry as much as he possibly could. Interesting because of his experiences of course being in the music industry and his whole life revolving around it. And I always and that's when I always took that into consideration when it comes to like raising like especially in a parent you know I was just like you don't want to expose your kids to everything you know especially if you know there's some things that are like nefarious stuff. You know there's some good things but then there's not some good things. And of course you know that's you know it's our job to be the kind of guy I'd have to help protect them at least shield them as much from the world as we can preparing for what's out there. Absolutely so that's pretty that was one of the things I noticed and then it was so funny because then she starts like I want to be a singer I want to be a singer I'm like of course your worst fear.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

I know your worst fear coming to you I was like I don't know if you want to do you know I think I don't know man it's it's it's a tough one for me because again obviously the industry's well established and some of the practices and some of the things they had to behind the scenes and closed doors. Like it's all yeah to me it just is not worth the the cost of it. You know what I mean? The cost benefit analysis is just not I don't know I just more power to people who do it you know what I mean but it's just it's a lot of it's a lot of take man and it's it's a lot it takes a lot out of you and I think that if again you're you're fortunate enough to not have to I don't say have to that sounds such a weird thing.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

Um because so many people are itching to do this you know what I mean um I think that's just what makes it kind of frightening too is it's I think even with the internet now with the E S to getting to the entry level is it's the bar has been lowered so much. So it makes it even more it makes it more alluring.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

I feel like yeah right yes yes absolutely it seems more accessible yeah than it actually is 100% you know and why see that's I don't know man I don't know I can see it from both sides you know what I mean because because again the the phone itself is is definitely a tool that can if utilized properly you know what I mean you hear about viral successes all the time and whether or not these individuals remain established in an industry that you know again caters to attention or in the

Ads Versus Building A Local Scene

SPEAKER_01 33:37

attention ecosystem. You know that's what I'm saying. Like so you have to understand the what what's at play here. But to really kind of get some foundation established I think as a as an artist nowadays spending all your time and money on like ads and stuff like that is if you have the the income to do it for sure. At the same time it's almost worth more to establish yourself locally like you know I don't think rap especially hip hop is a bad rap for trying to build in your hometown and stuff. But I think that that's kind of what we have to get back to. You know what I mean that's how a lot of artists kind of came up before was they were building in their hometowns you know they were passing on mixtapes like the gas station you know what I mean like you knew of people before they made it to the main stage so I think that like we got to get back to that kind of local celebrity culture if you want just being a main you know just a familiar face.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

I agree with that because I think what happened especially with social media I think social media has led to the flattening of a lot of culture a lot of the elimination of a lot of cult subcultures absolutely because even within hip hop itself like people think about music at one time if you were in Oakland you were in the Bay your music sounded one particular way in LA your music sounded a particular way New Orleans one way Memphis one way might you know and then with social media it kind of eliminated all that because what was happening was what's the most popular thing that's getting pushed and so if there's one area and it's like and I feel so bad for Atlanta because you can't really blame them for it. They just happened to be the sound that everyone gravitated towards right and so once that became the sound then that's when everybody wanted to have want to start emulating that because that's what was getting pushed through. Absolutely and then it kind of just flattened the rest of culture. Yeah and I think we're starting to see with everything that's happened over the past couple years you're starting to kind of see a lot of that breaking down and that's kind of going back to that grassroots what's happening locally in the in your community.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Absolutely yeah no I think it's super important at this point man because yeah we're getting to a point where it's kind of homogenized right when you start talking about hip hop music like we talked about earlier there's subgenres that exist. Yeah and when you get to a point where you're just kind of conflating it all and I mean I kind of understand it right like just just humans as we have a tendency to just oversimplify things and hold things like it's like okay this is that label so that's the what this check check check you know it checks a certain box and certain list. And so I think yeah it's kind of just super important for us to kind of get and re-establish ourselves and and not to be weird about like I know people talk about it is like the idea of like gatekeeping things gatekeeping culture gatekeeping like I I don't I don't I don't necessarily disagree with that

Homogenized Sounds Gatekeeping And K Pop

SPEAKER_01 36:23

sentiment. You know what I mean? Like it's not meant for everybody. You know and and and this is coming from somebody who if I'm being honest with you like I'm a transplant man. Like I was I my my my entire personality is a derivative of media that I've consumed of people that I've been around and I've lived in so many different places I lived in Virginia I was from the DMV area you know the South Carolina most of my life but I was also in in Korea around a lot of people who from who are from a lot of different areas. Yeah so you know like but so it's like I think that the homogenization of of the sound I think was going to happen but I think it is going to take like a concentrated effort yeah out of everybody to kind of re-establish those yeah and well and I don't know I get weird about that too I feel like it it's it one could suggest that it's part of the next evolution of the sound. Yeah you know I mean that once it does become homogenized that something new has to pop up. Yeah you know I mean you just want to make sure that's not some weird corporatized overcorporatized version of it.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Yeah I agree and I mean and I think another thing too that kind of summarizes that is the fact that like I look at for example like things like like genre like country right I look at country I look at just like different horse pop music and I hate even the same because you're here but even thinking about like subgenres of pop you're saying like okay pop right where you have it's like they've taken elements because these things were of a hip-hop because they were successful in hip hop so let me take this out that just kind of further goes to the flattening of the culture itself. Oh yeah right and so it's just gonna be interesting to see what's going to happen over the next five 10 15 years right as all of a sudden those things aren't no longer seen as as I guess chic right aren't you know aren't aren't really the um they are in and what's the culture gonna look like there's still gonna be people doing hip hop stuff. Right.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Right there's still gonna be young people out here trying to create music that's similar but what's it gonna sound like what's it gonna look like oh 100% yeah no I don't and if I'm being honest with you I'm not a fan of K-pop at all I don't like I don't listen to it and I'm not and that's not me trying to play Kor Buddy or Gator. I've just never been a K-pop guy if I'm being honest with you like I just I never so my cousin and then this is where again my familiar roots go back my cousin again my Korean side of the family my cousin used to go by the name of MC Dickie and he had a mixtape way back in the day man the first time I ever heard him was uh I was in third grade actually and he had just got back from the military because every every male over a certain age has to oh yeah go to the military or Korea. So he just got back from the military but I was like I didn't even know he did music but I listened to him he used to rap yeah you know what I mean um and so like like but but even he was just a he was a rapper though he was actually like rapping like he was you know what I mean lyricist if you will you know what I mean um and and then yeah what I what what with K-pop though I just to me what they've done is they've they've taken certain elements and certain digestible elements of the culture if you will and then repackaged into a corporate yeah it's commodified. Yes and that's my issue with art is is is and that's why I'm talking about gatekeeping. Yeah it's important because once you once certain things start getting commodified and it's it's and and then the our art and corporate interests converge that's when you're gonna start having issues and to me if I put this in one of my songs I need to record it actually but like there's this line that I have it's just the idea of like the process of assimilation is just another process of um elimination is what I say. Right? So it's just the idea it's just like yeah progress but under what you know what I mean under what lens though what are we actually talking about here so it's like we have to be kind of super careful and I think it's important for people to kind of recognize that for what it is before it does become something that we lose control over. Locksmith said it best I don't know I'm a big underground artist guy. But he's got a song called Culture with Styles Pete from the locks yeah and he kind of goes through he he describes it way better than I could ever you know what I mean he conveys it in a way everyone needs to go check out locksmith honestly he's he's fantastic uh he's out of out of the Bay Area he's out of out of California uh but I've been following him for a minute got on got put on him from uh from rap battles from a bunch of rap battles in grand time back in the day he had a battle with daylight actually shout out to daylight that's probably one of my favorite battle rappers of all time I can see that I can see that me and my boy Domo so he's a he's a he's a shout out for Domo he's up in uh New York but he's someone that I've recorded a few songs with we got a mixtape out and everything like that um but but he's big in into into into the rap battles but there was a a song I did I'm working on a mixtape right now so shameless plug but um and this people are gonna be offended by this but I'm actually trying to I did a verse on the renegade instrument okay it's almost it's almost kind of sacred it's almost like when they just one of those ones yeah what I mean it's like do you really want to touch that one like are you sure that's the one you want to touch here it's gotta be on point. Uh uh that's what I'm working that's what I get I gotta I gotta I gotta refine that one. But but God where was I going with that um but no even in that there was a line that I said and he was just like dude that sounds like some daylight like it reminded him of daylight specifically um so there's a lot of influence to to those guys and my stuff but but back what I was saying the culture um locksmith kind of described from the standpoint of like you know are we gonna be told what the culture is or are we gonna define it ourselves and I think that's super important.

Direct To Fan Sales And Using AI

SPEAKER_01 41:54

And so yeah whatever that takes you know what I mean whatever that takes to to get us away from you know art and and the one thing that I appreciate now that you're seeing too that that's that's really to me revolutionary and almost groundbreaking um but Cole kind of did this with the falloff rollout but he did the mixtape drop uh the Blizzard Blizzard 26 yeah um and he did a direct to consumer website so he got people you can pay what you want and that's the way that that's that's the direction people need to go with and again I would never say go everyone get on the AI train and then use AI to create art don't do that but there are things that you can use AI for to set up your infrastructure to get your products in front of customers and get direct to consumer sales that's all I will say there's not options out here that exist people.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

Yes yes for me man like because you know I think like when it comes to AI I think AI it's a tool just like any other tool essentially right tool can be used for good and it can be used for not so good. Gift or a curse. Right exactly and so now when it comes to like writing songs for you making beats

The AI Flyer And Mukbang Rant

SPEAKER_02 43:05

or making crappy ass menu flyers like you know what I mean like yeah I hate whole man like for one thing people to like I hate AI flyers. Oh my gosh I hate AI flyers that and watching people sit in their car and eat food muffbongs you know what a fan of muffbongs no man those are two things what if they're at home eating food will that be better would that be more digestible yeah like I can like that's weird so I can deal with I can deal with you getting food at home I can deal with you cooking it do the little thing you make we're gonna make this in a little cut so I can deal with that I can deal with you going to a restaurant a restaurant sitting down eating the food but it's where these jokes get in the car and it's just showering down yeah and just you take the no and you know that's part of the experience apparently people enjoy it's ESMR love that stuff like gosh I can't see they got the little thumbnails and it's like they're sitting in the car and they got all these big back plates just on their chest and they're like where's the steering wheel where's the steering wheel generated I've never seen a car like this before like there was a guy recently so um so the big thing now up in Charlotte the baby he opened up you know the waffles and the chicken waffles yeah yeah so we were up there last week there was our because we're all a daughter they went up there um last week for a birthday yeah and that's when first that stuff started but that's I'm getting all this stuff about waffles now and then they had this thing like I guess this guy went visited I wanna like he went he had like all this foods like in the pictures stacked on his chest all these like like these like at least three or four different waffles I'm like so stupid I don't care if you make money this is stupid it's a stupid way to make I just I don't get it like can you at least go sit down in the restaurant can you at least take it home though they just sit there in their car oh yeah obviously you can tell I hate people sitting in the car eat hate a little passion might be some things unpacked there's not what's that traumatizing money right something some of us drop the milkshake off exactly and just the car seat or something I don't know but um with that said I know I want to get ready to wrap up but we got two things we're

Two Cards Life Lessons

SPEAKER_02 45:23

gonna do. So we have a brand new segment we start this season and so we call it two cards. And so you see these awesome cards right here. These cards have questions on them and some of these questions are gonna be easier for you to answer. Some are not but you gotta answer the questions. So you select two cards. Goodness oh good morning are we doing So this should be something like, think about it like this. So something that might have happened. You didn't lose money. Right. But you're like, you know what? This is something I gotta screw up big time. Yeah. And I need no, I need to do this next time.

SPEAKER_01 46:55

No, for sure. Uh grass is green where you water it. I think it's really easy for us nowadays to get caught up in the idea of a destination or something being better than what you currently have. And so that puts you in a perpetual state where you're constantly chasing something instead of valuing what you have in the moment. Um not to get into too much, I know that's the whole point of this question. It's meant to be an intimate question, obviously, to unpack some things, but I will say that there have been some choices that I've made in my relationships in the past that were not the best choices, I guess. And it costed me a lot more than I care to admit. Um but they were they were lessons that I felt like were were necessary to be to be learned. Um but also I think the other key with that too is is sometimes even when you're not ready to do something, that's the best time to do it. I think that's another thing too, is as ready. Like I had I had Sean when I was 19. So you know he's 15 now, obviously I'm 34. Um, and that was always the fear, right? Is like I always look back and I was like, I was I was never ready, I was still a baby, and everything like that. And I tell people all the time nowadays, when it comes to having kids, you're never ready. No, and you know, you know what I mean? You got everything checked up, I got the crib, I got the minivan, I got the car seat ready to go, I got the diaper warmer, I got everything lined up ready to go, but you're gonna forget something. And that's okay. Um, the the important thing is to be present and then just you know what I mean, to trust yourself. I think I spent a lot of my time in my life not trusting myself, succumbing to self-doubt, succumbing to um other people's expectations, what have you, you know. Like it's just yeah, I don't know. There's probably a couple different lessons that I threw all together and just kind of combined into one. Um, but yeah, not a that's a really good question, actually.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

All right.

Fatherhood Integrity And Growing Up Fast

SPEAKER_01 49:05

Origin story. What moment changed the direction of your life?

SPEAKER_02 49:17

I like this song, but this is cool. The song we added the season is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 49:21

Yeah, man, that's it's it it gets the the brain juices going. Um gotta kind of dig back a little bit too. And I'm weird about getting, you know, obviously you can find too much as you stayed. So, you know, I'm weird about releasing too much information or details. Um having my son, I think, was probably the most life-changing moment, man. Um it put me in a situation where I had to kind of grow up very quickly, yeah, or at least put on what I believe to be the expected grown-up version of myself, I guess, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

Because, like you say, you were still technical in some ways, you're still like a kid. Right.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

100%. Oh, dude, I was totally a baby. Yeah. Um and so, you know, that that trying to figure it out as I was going along and just using, you know, my dad had just divorced my mom. And so, if I'm being honest with you, my dad said some things growing up, you know what I mean, that really stuck with me. Like, integrity is doing the right thing, even when there's no one there to see you do it. Um, and I think that that to me was always something that I struggle with, even to this day. You know what I mean? Not to say I live by that, you know what I mean? Like I'm this virtuous person, like, no, I don't know, not even close, man. Um, but it is it was something that stuck with me. And the reason I mentioned this specifically is you know, when him and my mom divorced, it kind of unearthed my whole dad was my idol in terms of what I was thought to be a man, yeah taking care of family, what was expected on love. And so when that happened, to me that was a betrayal of everything that he had told me up until that point. So when he divorced Laman, it kind of unearthed the foundation that I had what I thought was supposed to be a man. Yeah, so I had kind of an idea of what I needed to do. Yeah, make sure the kids are fed, make sure they take their asses to school, you know what I mean? Make sure you're working hard, yeah, getting your education, you know what I mean, stuff like that. So it having my son at that age really kind of kicked things in a high gear for me. Um, I got really serious with school, got my associate's degree, was working full-time. Yeah, you know what I mean, just trying to do my best as as the plain adult. Yeah, like this. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Oh, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

But but yeah, no, that that was and it just, you know, and I can get into some more things. I've struggled with mental health stuff in the past, but like having him was really the anchor, I guess, if you will. You know what I mean? I can see that. I can see that.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

Especially that, especially that age. Because you don't realize, like, because you're kind of um, so I know my wife and I, we had a friend of ours, she had a child when she was pretty young. I think she was like maybe like 16, 17. Yeah. But I remember when she was explaining, when she was explaining it to my wife at the time, she was like, Yeah, well, her, because she has a younger kid, much younger kid now after she got married, but she was like, Yeah, it was like, yeah, raising her was like raising me too. Right? Oh, yeah, yeah, she was like, and it's like that for their relationship is so much different than the younger child that she has. Because she's not that she feels like she's ready to be a mom, but you know, it's that's one of the biggest things people don't get when you have a child that you know, because you're still worrying.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

Dude, that's that's such a good point, honestly. Um, because I always I talk about this with people, like I think as a kid, for me at least growing up, I always saw my parents as like, you know, the figurative Kate buying their back, they're superheroes in my eyes. Yeah, Sean on the other hand, my son, I think had to realize and had that sobering moment that that doesn't happen, Kate. Yeah, that is just human. Yeah, he had to witness that I think far sooner than I had to. Yeah, and I don't know if again, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, because he had to witness me kind of grow up a little bit too. Yeah, so I you know, time will tell, obviously, if if if that's wisdom that he's able to draw from. But like, yeah, that was one thing that I don't say I regret it, but yeah, he kind of he had to watch me grow up. You know what I mean? I was the blind leading the blind, but like, you know, he I will say another thing too, in terms of all the things that people because you can learn anything from anybody. I'm a firm believer, but um, my son has taught me more than a lot of people have. I think just about being genuine, being kind, speaking up. So, you know, if he's there's pretty cool about that. That's what I've noticed, man. I'm like, and then not to go on a bit of a tangent here, but uh there was one time when I was I had I used to vape a lot, yeah, and I didn't care. I was doing it in public places, in public, and stuff like that. But I was over at uh what was it? Stars and Strikes right here locally. Um, and I was walking and I I took a hit of a vape, and this kid couldn't have been more than 15, 16 years old. He stopped me and immediately said something. He said, You can't be doing that in here, sir. And I almost took a step back and I was gonna be like, man, who you talking? But then I thought I could myself and I was like, you know what? I love that. This young man had no, you know what I mean, he had the courage to speak up and believe something that was wrong. He knew was wrong, and said something. I was just like, man, this we might have hope yet. Yeah, this generation may, you know what I mean? Like as much of a bad rap as they get, because I always joke around around with people about this, is that in the in the future we're gonna have either a sitting president or a senator that at some point snorted a condom or ingested a time body. Yeah, so it's just a reality that we all have to kind of accept at this point, but you know, like it's just it's coming. Um, but yeah, there's there's future, man. There's hope for this future, I think. I feel like with these kids. Um, we just gotta make sure that again we find a way to educate, entertain, you know what I mean, allow them to express themselves. Yeah, um, which is again why I'm kind of kind of doing this, man. Why I appreciate the art form. I think it's just good to give back. You know, most powerful that I feel, I feel like is what I'm able to write and do. That's the most fun I have, honestly, is what I'm doing with Rosie. You know, so it's just to me, it's a good outlet, you know. Um, and hopefully other kids kind of find value in it. But I don't know, it's just yeah, yeah, I know we ain't got too much more time, but yeah.

Where To Follow Junior And Final Words

SPEAKER_02 55:11

So with that said, so wrap up shameless plug. So any current products you're working on, like social media info, how can people follow you support you?

SPEAKER_01 55:21

Uh I'm on Instagram, I guess. Uh I don't really post much, so you know to be like you're not gonna get too much out of me. I do kind of post on my stories every once in a while. Uh, but it's just J00NY3R. Uh and I'm gonna be hopefully dropping a mixtape soon. We've got Southern Slaughter Volume 3 out on all major platforms. Um working on some other stuff. I don't know if Holiday's uh allowing us to talk about the new project yet. Um, but got another project that we're cooking up, a collaboration album similar to Southern Slaughter. Um yeah, and I got a mixtape that I'm cooking up on, man, and traditional mixtape from sense of like uh just using you know popular instrumentals and shit. So I'm sure yeah, no, okay, yeah. Um and then I'm working on an EP, and then there's a conversation going on, my boy, right now, to work on some other stuff too. But of course, yeah, a couple things in the in the pot right now. We'll see what's this, though. We'll see what this thing is.

SPEAKER_02 56:19

Cool. With that said, um June, it's been a pleasure having you as a guest. Thanks. Yes, yes. And with that said, um, of course, um everybody who um uh watches our episodes, just for another episode of the Hilltop Glove Podcast. And words of um my co-host and brother, um DJ Ann Watt, um, you know, the per person that's beside you, make sure that you tell them that you love them. And we hope to see you next time on the Hilltop Glove Podcast. Peace.