SPEAKER_01 1:46

Welcome to the Hilltop Club Podcast where Skip and DJ Ann want to interview guests and discuss topics such as business, current events, and pop culture. The motivational podcast for the hip hop millennial. She is an LPC, a licensed mental health therapist, currently working with children, teens, and families at a local middle and elementary school. She is also a mother, an activist, and a professional. Hello, hello, hello. How are you doing today, Mila?

SPEAKER_00 2:35

Hello, hello, guys. Good morning. How are y'all?

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Good. Good. Doing well, doing well. Excellent. Excellent. Good. How's this year going thus far for you?

SPEAKER_00 2:46

You know that's a loaded question.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

So, you know, we're 30 days in. You know, in a lot of aspects, it feels like kind of 2020 part two. Like regarding just like all of us still trying to navigate this pandemic, all of us still trying to make sure that, you know, we are getting our needs met every day, doing what we need to do for ourselves and at our jobs and for our families, and just trying to balance all that. So, you know, for me, like one of my biggest things is balance. And that has continued. Even though, like I said, it feels like 2020 part two. I am still working on and trying to maintain balance as often as I can. So, you know, I'm not, I'm not going to say the year's going back because it's absolutely not. But definitely working on how to have the best day I can every day. And sometimes that's harder, you know, harder than other days. So, but yeah, hanging in there, hanging in there for sure.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Well, that's a question I've been asking all of our guests, of course, coming out of that that that whack, that wacky mac uh year that we came out of. Just coming into the chair. Do things does is there a sense of clarity in the air? Do things feel better? Does it feel like some stress has been let off, some steam has been let out of the out of the kettle? Because today, this is our this is a good episode for us to have, especially going through transition, seeing a change of power, watching the world attempt to deal with a new way of seeing things, deal doing business, etc. The idea and the topic of mental health has to come into play.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Absolutely. Yep, definitely. So oh, go ahead. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

No, no, that's no problem. I'm gonna let you talk. That's no problem. But because the topic though is a very sensitive one, it's something that is not actually educated, not it's not taught in an educated way throughout the throughout the the common the common media at all. So there's not many ways for people to understand how to deal with articulate themselves around the subject. And so most of the time it just gets swept under the rug.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

So could you tell us a little bit about your mental health journey and the importance of mental health care, particularly in communities of color, because communities of color, we really act like Jesus can save everything.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Mm-hmm. Yep. Uh absolutely. Yeah. So I'll I'll tell a little bit about my journey, which interestingly, my journey through mental health and some of the things I went through growing up is ultimately what led me to want to become a therapist. So basically, you know, I I grew up in West Columbia, South Carolina. The name has changed since, but I actually grew up in Hendrix Trailer Park, which yeah, that was it was interesting growing up there. It was fun. It would, you know, it was just a very interesting time growing up there. But basically, I am the oldest of six, and younger than me are five amazing boys and men. And so, because of what we went through, just not always having our needs met, living under the poverty level, you know, at one point, our our father, our stepdad at the time was incarcerated for about three years. And so that left mom raising all six of us. And at the time there was four of us, and two came along later, but raising us, working three jobs, doing everything she had to do to survive and make sure we had what we needed. As I grew up and learned and felt comfortable to tell my story and read and like just share my story, which I've done at like high schools and on panels and in different ways I've shared my mental health journey. I learned that I am not alone in that upbringing and not knowing when you're gonna eat next because something else had to get paid, or not having lights for a few days, or having heat because something else had to get paid. Mom's just trying to balance everything. And with her doing that, that left me, since I was the oldest, that left me helping to raise my brothers a lot, you know. So I'd go to school, I'd come home, I'd have my brothers so mom could work. And during that time, you know, I was, I, I was young. I was like between the ages of 12 and 15 when this, when that particular struggle of our our dad being incarcerated, when that was going on. And so I had a lot of resentment, you know. I was like, you know, I want to be out playing, I want to be doing this and that. I was really angry, really upset, and did not understand why that was going on. But the one thing I didn't know at that time is, you know, like I said before, other people have had similar experiences, sometimes even more difficult experiences. And so I was alone in that and being alone in that, and then in our family, not so not even not talking about mental health issues, but not even acknowledging that that's what they were, you know, not having the understanding, not having the language, not even acknowledging that, okay, Mila is not sleeping and is crying a lot in class and is harming herself. Like in my family, you suck it up, you get through whatever is going on, and you do what you need to do to survive. I think that a lot of times that is the message in families. And I don't knock that. You know, looking back and learning what I've learned, that was being done in that moment for us to survive. So if you think about like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, one of the most basic things on there is food, shelter, clothing, water. That's basic, you know? Instinctually, that's what animals are looking for. Instinctually and biologically, that's what we need to be able to even think about anything else most times. Now, if you're like a monk living on top of a mountain and you can forego those things and still ascend, good for you. But most of us don't have that going on, right? We're living here day to day trying to make it. So basically, you know, looking back, we were just trying to survive. And in the midst of that, and because of a lot of times the stigma of mental health, a lot, you know, in in black families and a lot of families, there's a stigma of mental health that somebody's being weak, or they're just, you know, they're trying to get out of something, or, you know, there's just this stigma to it. It's not always taken as seriously as it needs to be. So there were a lot of complicating factors that kind of came together to shape who I was at that time, like poverty, loss of a parent through incarceration, having to step up and do more things that any 12-year-old should have had to done uh do. The word for that is parentification, which I learned through my mental health journey. So that, you know, that was going on. And for the longest time, I had a chip on my shoulder about it. I really was upset and resentful and didn't understand why things always seem like they sucked. And so I would say in families that are going through things that are extremely difficult, one of the first things that I think needs to happen, and which has been like some of the activism I've done, is to try to address those initial survival needs, you know? Like how can we address those needs so that thinking about mental health, breaking that stigma of mental health, you know, having those conversations can even happen.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Do you think that's a foundation, though? I want to that the point that you made, addressing the primal needs. Is that a foundational piece of mental health?

SPEAKER_00 10:09

It absolutely can be. Yep, absolutely. So, and you know, every therapist has their style and their way and what they want to address and their skill set and the theory they work from. I think every therapist brings their story, their themselves into the space of therapy, right? And because my background personally is that poverty and all those things didn't even allow for the mental health conversation. I'm always kind of keen and looking for is that a barrier to the work that they're trying to do with me in therapy? And if it is, I, you know, I am of the heart and I'm extremely resourceful. You know, I'm getting on the horn and helping them figure out what do they need so that we can have those conversations and they do feel like they're getting their needs met. So whether that's partnering with local agencies that provide shelter or whether that's, you know, helping parents brainstorm.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

You advocate for a beautiful word.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Yes. So uh that's a part of therapy too. So yeah, ultimately, and I listen, I don't even know if I answered your original question.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

No, you you do a good job of answering. It was you're telling us about your your mental health journey and flow. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, but at least but it leads into exactly what we're you were just finishing up on the importance of the mental of mental health care, especially in our communities, because we deal with a lot of those lack of foundational needs. Yep, absolutely in order for us to even start building a positive mental health health situation. It it's hard to do that. That's one of the most interesting things, the most one of the most dangerous things ever done in black civil rights was when the Black Panther Party decided to feed children before school.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Oh my gosh. That's when they really turned the heat upon them. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

How can controversial can you get?

SPEAKER_01 12:06

So when you look at that point, that having those basic needs, having some knowing that you're gonna be able to have a meal, knowing you you're gonna have a roof over your head, clothes on your back, the ability to get to and from where you need to do to progress in life, you can start to relax in certain areas and start to build positive character development and all that, those other things that you need to survive in society, which leads to those negative um aspects that we see, especially in our community. So it is something I think is important. I know Kevin and I, we both can tell you we've had a long journey dealing with mental health, um, how it actually affects you in the reality, and it affects people around you that aren't even in your same uh circumstance. Absolutely. Um I think that's it it is is it's important. It's something that we we we can um both agree on. I know Kevin and I that this is an episode that we we like because we like to discuss and talk about these things, but normally people, especially in our community, man, they're gonna give you Jesus first. That's what I always tease about.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Yeah, and that you know I will say not to knock religion because a a part of my practice and my journey, a part of it is some some spiritual aspects. I'm not gonna say I'm religious, I'm gonna say I'm spiritual, it's a journey, it's a practice, it's not based on these these set rules. But you know, I will say religion can be a really good tool, also. It's like, you know, I give the analogy when I'm in session with people, it's like building a house. If you're going to build a house and all you've got is a saw and a hammer, you're not gonna get very far. But if you've got your whole tool set, your different bits, you've got everything you need to build that house, plus the foundation that you know that you mentioned, then you're gonna be able to get further along and get as far that house as far built as you can. You know, so religion is just another tool, and that that comes into play too with folks. They'll come in and talk to me about that, and I'll help them to figure out how to use that tool as best, you know, as best as we can figure that out. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Yeah, I agree with you on that. It doesn't stand on its own, but it is, it is, it can be used necessarily like it can be a necessity in some situations, but it can't be there by itself. It doesn't matter. Absolutely not. Nope. But building further on what we're discussing, especially with your experience and your work, working in public schools every day. Who have you been seeing in the community during COVID? We've had civil unrest. Yep, we've had shortages of toilet paper, yeah, inability to feed them children because they aren't in school anymore. Right. What are you seeing from the children that you work with? And and and also to so you can finish on a positive outlook, like what can we do to support the young people that are in our lives and that we have contact with that may need help?

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Right. So it's it's been really interesting being in the school system. I started at my two schools September 2019. And so basically that was before COVID. Everything was pretty steady. You know, I was I was seeing I, you know, some typical teenage angst with some of my kids, just some drama, things they needed to talk through, some anxiety and depression, you know, just things we all typically go through in middle school as we're developing, growing hormones are kicking in, you know. But then as COVID started around March 2020 is when we all had to go to virtual. And so instead of face-to-face sessions, I was doing virtual and supporting folks through the confusion and the anxiety around the changes in schoolwork, parents losing their jobs. And that's again where a lot of the resources I know about, I was oftentimes in session with parents, sometimes more than the kids, trying to help them brainstorm and figure out kind of what to do around some of their basic needs no longer being met. And so, of course, you know, if you're in a house where things were already, there was some difficulty there. And then you compact that with COVID, compact that with every all the kids going to virtual. So parents got to figure out how to manage that and go to work, you know, you're gonna see an uptick in people needing mental health support. And so now in August, I went back to my schools face to face. Yes, I am in my schools Monday through Friday, 7:30 to 4, face to face with these kids. I think like maybe a third of my kids are still virtual. The rest of the kids are in the building every day, except for Fridays, it's virtual. And so what I'm seeing a lot now is really exacerbated mental health issues that it's like what was there before as far as the angst of depression, all those things. It is, it is, it has ticked up a lot. And so just a trigger warning here for anybody listening who has, you know, experienced self-harming or any suicidal ideation or anything like that. I will talk about that next, but wanted to offer a trigger warning in case somebody is still processing those things and, you know, can't necessarily listen to someone else talk about it right now. So trigger warning, there has been an uptick in self-harm and kids. Kids not knowing how else to cope, not knowing what to do, not always being able to have the words to articulate or tell parents or other adults what's going on. And so in that midst of high emotion with no outlet that they under that they even know they have, you know, they're going and like cutting themselves, burning themselves, doing other harmful things just to relieve that pressure. That is a negative coping skill. I do not recommend it, but it is also there, the in that moment, the only way they're they're seeing to relieve some pressure, to feel something else besides sadness, anxiety, fear, and all that. So there has been a real uptick of that. I think in the past two months or so, every, about every week, I've had at least one crisis, which is a team coming to me, or even some of my elementary kids have come to me lately with, you know, I'm having these thoughts. I want to die. I, you know, I've I've harmed myself. So that it's it's just it's a little bit through the roof right now. But on the other side, I do want to say the agency I work for has, in the county that I'm in, has placed a mental health therapist in every single school, elementary through high school, in their school, to make mental health support a part of the daily conversation there. And so that the kids can right away see a mental health therapist at their school if they need that. If we could model that in the in the entire state, that would be phenomenal. I don't know who's listening or who would have power to like really make that happen. But I think number one, on a larger macro scale, that would be phenomenal. On a micro scale, you ask what we can do. I would say COVID has brought on a lot of like very negative, devastating aspects. But of course, especially in my journey, it helps to look on the other side of things too and look at the positive. So it has also given a lot of us an opportunity to slow down, to kind of not have that hustle, bustle, quick, gotta get it done, gotta do this, gotta go to bed, wake up, do it all again. We've had to slow down a lot, right? And so I would say any adult listening that has a young person in their life, take advantage of that slowdown. Reach out and check in with them. Ask how school's going, ask how friendships are going. Just pay attention. You know, if you, if you notice, if you're noticing that the kid, the the child or young adult or teen in your life, their mood is changed, or they seem more anxious, or like they once were doing their work, but they're suddenly not, like you, like we intuitively know when something's going on with somebody, you know. I feel like we're all connected in that way. We can tell when something's going on with somebody. So take advantage of that slow down and check in with the young people in your life. Spend more time with the with them if you're physically able. You know, I know social distancing has made it difficult, but you know, they got if you got to get on Snapchat to catch up with your nieces and nephews, get a Snapchat, you know, whatever it takes. Like make that extra effort because we we all need support right now, all of us. But it seems like our kids just trying to navigate things that a lot of times adults don't even know what's gonna happen day to day. I'm seeing a lot of pressure on them and just a lot of confusion and and worry about what's going on. So yeah, I would I would say even today, after after you listen to this segment, think about the people, young people in your life and and check on them. Check in, you know? Yeah, check in. It it might take that one, you know, it it typically takes at least one caring adult to turn things around for a kid. And and that's that's another reason I became a therapist is because I was never taught or told to reach out and tell anybody what was going on with me. You know, you keep it to yourself, it's nobody's business, that's a family matter. And in the midst of that, I often felt alone. Like I often felt like, you know, what I'm going through, nobody else is. So I just got to figure it out. But I'm so lonely, what do I do? I feel like if I had known that I could have talked to maybe my guidance counselor or just somebody who made themselves known to me, if I knew that that was an option and understood that as an option, I think things would have gone differently for me, you know.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Um so sometimes you would have been given some kind of guidance, which is why it's supposed to be there as a guidance. So that's single guy.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

That's my goal, that's my life's work to kind of reach back through time to kids that are who I was at that age and and be the adult that's like, hey, I see you. This all sucks. Today was rough for me. Let's sit in this space and listen to your favorite song. Let's sit in this space and color, let's sit in this space and not even talk about anything difficult right now because the day was difficult enough. Let's, you know, it just sometimes takes one adult. And so anybody listening can be that adult for somebody. Truly. You don't have to have a degree, you just gotta care.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

So speaking of which, are there any organizations that do this for young folks? And I know right now it's probably hard to do anything, of course, in person. Right. But are there any telecounselings that that are that could be done for youth?

SPEAKER_00 22:43

Yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah. So I before I started my current position, I was doing private practice under um Angel Johnson, who started Brighter Pathways, LLC. Yep, about maybe seven, eight years ago, or 10, maybe she started it. She also a few years ago started a nonprofit side of that called Angels of Hope. That side of it helps with sliding scale fees because sometimes, and this is a systemic issue, sometimes mental health and healthcare in general is difficult to access financially. So she started Angels of Hope. Absolutely reaching out to them. They work with youth. I know my my caseload at that time, it was all families and teens and young kids. Also, Inspire, it's I I N S P I R E L L C. Ashley Edy, she's one of my mentors. She she's been just she's the one that actually got me contracted with Brighter Pathways a few years ago when I was doing that. But she's got a private practice. It's virtual. She's accessible. I mean, there's so there's so many different agencies and counselors who are like there and ready and willing to help. I would say Serenity SC as well, Shameria Glover and her partner Camilla, and I'm I'm forgetting her last name, but they do an excellent job working with folks. And then one thing I do, I'm going to tell you, I tell people that I work with that as a therapist and truly as a therapist, anybody in the helping field, if you are not also going back as often as you need to process your stuff, to make sure you are you're along in your journey the way you need to be and you're not bringing your stuff into someone else's session, into someone else's space, it is so important to continue to go back and get therapy for yourself when you need it. So because the counseling world can seem super small, like I know a lot of therapists I go to really like it, like I can't I can't go to a conference when conferences were a thing. I couldn't go to a conference without bumping into like at least four or five people I knew. But I would say honestly and truly go to psycholyty com. You can do a search for a therapist you can search for psychiatrists. You can search by their religion you can search by insurance you can search by their gender.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

That's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

You can search by what your needs are psychologytoday.com search.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

Find a black therapist I'm not gonna lie this type of information is the best because most of the time it's just like you said the issue is with mental health it's not publicized. If you want to if you're having an issue with your heart you're gonna be able to find a top heart doctor you're gonna know exactly where to go to to get the treatment paper etc but when it comes to mental health it's like it it's it's how would you put it it's a bottom shelf back wall type thing. Like no one's gonna touch it they don't tell you how to get to it. Right. It's like it doesn't exist but everybody else is getting it that needs it. Right exactly like you got to know somebody that knows somebody that knows somebody for the mental health app right over down the block. Alright I'm gonna go over to get into mental health no it shouldn't be like that. Yes to get in the door come on seriously I don't know if you man I'm telling you like paying attention to some of the most recent news stories dealing with people dealing with mental health issues and having negative behaviors or overall bad things happening. It seems like and it's consistent it has there has not been a letdown of this stuff in the news because the news loves running it but the news will not assist at all in trying to help find solutions for these things.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

So I enjoy hearing information that is uh utility based so people can go out and utilize this stuff we'll make sure to take this information click place this this stuff of course in the on the page in the blog so that people can actually get to it as well but continuing on with you we know at one time and I I know this and you were talking about this uh earlier today in pre-production basically you know you were you're involved in leadership in several community organizations such as Run up Justice Black Lives Matter So the City Bail Fund and others all right how has uh did you tell us about some of your your your leadership endeavors as long as you know there aren't uh any issues that get you caught up of course oh absolutely listen I'm I will bring I'll bring it let's go so pretty much I I you know I was with Girls Rock for a long time which is a camp it's a summer camp for uh girls and LGBTQIA plus teens to they come to the camp they learn a music instrument but in the midst of the week they're learning social justice skills and all that and just how to coexist and and seek out equity and all these different amazing radical things. At the end of the week they, you know, the whole week they're in a band they're learning their instrument et cetera et cetera and that was an amazing experience. I think when I moved back to South Carolina I was in Virginia for a few years that was one of the first groups that I kind of happened upon. And so I rode with them for a while. I was on the board I was organizing creating workshops doing all kinds of stuff and then finally after about six or seven years I was like you know what I'll let some younger folks handle this. I'm gonna fall back and then with Simple Justice Black Lives Matter that that group started in 2016 and they I rode hard for them too you know I was a leader I was always in the streets yelling marching doing all kinds of stuff to raise awareness and just try to raise the consciousness about what was going on in the black community regarding police brutality you know just all you know black lives matter y'all know black lives matter well but were you dealing with specific situations here in Columbia? So we would it was what it ended up being and this is what I noticed around that time too and this was years ago since I've had a kid I've kind of like been in the shadows with a lot of groups lately but what we started noticing was that we would have folks out like rallying and doing all these things but a lot of times folks did not end up understanding the history and and like the school to prison pipeline and like mass incarceration of black folks and just all the different things that they were yelling and upset about when we wanted to make moves and like you know try to get things changed and and kind of get some substance to it, folks didn't always understand like kind of the backstory and the back end of what it took to make that happen. And so really what what our group what Simple Justice shifted into doing like this is what fit with the people that were involved at the time and and and just all of our hearts knowing that we wanted to educate people we ended up providing a lot of free community events a lot of education you know we we would review things like 13th that documentary Ava DuVenay we would like just show folks like okay yes let's get out let's make noise let's have our voices heard but ultimately we need to know why we're doing that education before anecdotally we knew things were messed up and they weren't right but let's like think about how this monster was created and what it looks like. So when we go to actually try to speak in front of folks or try to provide you know just whatever we needed to say or do in those moments to prop to to affect change we wanted people to know what what had been going on. So we you know before I left that group about three years ago that was really simple justices lane educating folks as to why we were out hollering in the first place you know and so but now you know after I had my sweet babe who will be two on February 4th time has flown right so while while I was pregnant with him I really fell back with activism because that does take a lot out of you emotionally spiritually physically it really does take a lot out of you to be carrying different things and educate people and just being on the scene all the time. So I did fall back so I could focus on my pregnancy. So now I am with Soda City Bail. Yeah so so Soda City Bail is a volunteer run bail fund. And basically we, I mean it's all donation based. So I wish you know I wish we had like a grantor or somebody who was just feeding us money but it's all donation and volunteer based. We do have a fiscal sponsor Every Black Girl which was founded by Vivian Anderson who is phenomenal. I would say if you can have her on here at some point I absolutely recommend it. Yeah I highly recommend it. But she founded Every Black girl after the assault on Shakara Naya at Spring Valley High School again with the SRO. So she founded Every Black girl as a means to stand up and say no more. You know, every black girl's gonna thrive this is not happening again. What changes can we make and let's absolutely make them whether that's you know the disproportionate school to prison pipeline that our black brown black and brown babies find themselves in more quickly than their white counterparts or whether that's just just not finding equity or not finding the things they need in the community that would have them to be successful, what can be done to turn those things around so every black girl's phenomenal Vivian Anderson's phenomenal that group is our fiscal sponsor meaning they just kind of help with the ins and outs of you know some of the behind the scenes donation things but so Soda City Bail currently the focus is to get marginalized folks out of jail pretrial because the United States is one of the only countries left that does cash bail which basically means like for example for example in May of 2016 not 2016 not May of 2020 when George Floyd was murdered and we had a lot of protesting in Colombia and all over the world folks were standing up and saying this is not right. We're sick of police brutality we're sick of all this a lot of folks and I'm I'm one of them and this might be a conversation for another time a lot of folks are wanting abolition a lot of folks are like this system is not working. Well it's working for who wants it to work like the privatized prisons. It's working for them it's not working for the people so in 2020 of May when when when things were popping off after George Floyd Soda City Bail Fund was founded because a lot of folks that were getting arrested were just being put in jail based on the word of the police which that is seen as you know in the in the legal system their word is gold their word is bond. But people were getting arrested for peacefully protesting people were getting arrested for walking down the street. People were getting arrested for like exercising their right and so if you're held in jail pretrial but you can't pay your bail guess what you're sitting there you're you're sitting there so right now I think the number was like 70 I'll have to look at this again but I think like 70% of the jail population is pretrial detainees. It's people that the cops said they did a thing they got arrested for that thing. We don't know if they did it or not they hadn't been trialed but they're sitting in jail because they can't pay $5,000 they're sitting in jail because they don't have the $2,000 or the bondsman wants more than they they can give up at that time. They don't have the collateral you know so Soda City Bail what we do is we eliminate that barrier like if you are a marginalized person, you're black brown, if you're LGBTQIA plus and and you reach out to Soda City Bail and and or a family member does typically it's a family member and they're like hey this is going on this the XYZ then you know with with the internal process it's worked out that that you're supported in getting your bail figured out so that you you know because if you sit in jail for two weeks and you're supposed to be on the clock guess what happens when you come out and you have clocked in for two weeks lose your job. Right and then you lose your job yeah eviction comes after that it's a safe it's a situ it's a circular situation to create poverty and then recidivism absolutely and who does it affect more than anybody else black and brown folks black and brown folks yeah yep and so oh question though where could people actually donate directly to Soda City so I am I'm gonna pull up the website so sodacitybail.com the it's typically through Cash App and PayPal where folks can here let me pull it up yeah because that's yeah that's something because that's the whole story like the gentleman he just couldn't get out yes and this was the thing that young man was 16 years old right 16 years old he was accused of of stealing a backpack yes they put a 16 year old kid in Rikers you we all we hear Rikers and we're like oh that's the hardest of the heart it is he spent this this this man God rest his soul spent three years in Rikers right two of them in solitary confinement because he kept getting his ass kicked by adult grown men and so he would get I don't know what would happen to them but he was getting put in solitary could you imagine and then when he gets out like he didn't even this was pre-trial y'all he never he did not get tried for this never got tried those three years right convicted that that that is unacceptable that is like literally state sanctioned torture. So with Soda City Bail as far like the conditions in prisons now are absolutely horrible which is why I personally am an abolitionist I want the whole system done away with and we figure out how to make it work but I just this current system is not acceptable for humans. With Soda City Bail we make sure that folks don't have a situation like Kalif Browder had exactly so Cash App, PayPal and Venmo, if you just go to sodacitybail.org you can donate directly and that money 100% of that money goes to when folks need bail the ball it's all volunteer none of us get paid none of us get anything for this except knowing that we're we're trying to change lives right and then we're working on aftercare which means like if there are some things that the person needs when they get out we're setting up mechanisms to either provide direct resources or figure out ways where we can try to provide some of those things until their parole officer or if they have a caseworker can really get them started with that. So you know after they get bailed and and we we go to court and we sit in on their court date and if they need a ride to where they need to go that is taken care of. And then that aftercare piece of making sure the you know some some of those basic things they need you come out of a jail and who knows what your life was before that but I'm pretty damn sure it's not going to be much better after you do jail, right? No. So yeah that's I'm I'm obviously passionate about that work. That organization after I had my baby I spent a lot of time like okay I can't sit on my haunches I got to do something and and just after seeing their work and and knowing all the people in that group some of them I've organized with previously on different things.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Yeah so does City Bell is that truth they they they're they're doing uh the working work of the people man that's always good to hear that type of stuff I know as an adult now and not being how do you say not being blinded to what's really going on in the world it's nice having the balance on the other side of people doing the necessary good work out there to help people have a better time a better time here on earth. It always makes it feel better. So yeah we'll make sure we post that stuff and get that information out so that people know how to of course make sure that they're getting money there so that that situation can be be bettered as as best we can do now until laws change of course. One thing that happened this past week um dealing with um imprisonment and prisons in general was Biden actually marking down that that prison contract uh law so now we're no longer to have private prisons with 90% capacity contracts anymore. Right set up by our nice Nikki Haley when she was our governess. Right listen that's gonna be it governess Nikki Haley Lord blessing yeah man that was like one of the the most that was most one of the most sinister things she left behind as a legacy for her. Absolutely for administration just knowing that the prisons will stay at 90% capacity no matter what's going on. And part of that a lot of that deals with mental health as well they do imprison the folk that are dealing with mental health issues addiction issues et cetera instead of sending them to actual places to receive treatment. Absolutely so that stuff does tie in it's a one-to-one thing but something that's off of the topic of just strictly of strictly strictly dealing with uh mental health and uh societal issues but it's something that affects everybody I don't care what you're doing how you're living out here if you're in the 21st century you can be 89 you can be six years old you probably have been touched by the social media bug it has touched everybody at all times sometimes you're on the toilet sometimes you're driving which you shouldn't be doing while you're doing that you may be at work killing all the time on the clock people will have access to social media in some ways it is a positive thing allows people to connect with others especially during times like this when it is hard to be in consistent contact but also it can be abused like any technology can be or any tool so you must have some sort of control or balance over your use of it. So I know you're a big proponent of social media detox. Oh yeah could you explain to us what this is what it means and the benefits that you have seen from this and the benefits that may be outlined through various literatures etc dealing with detoxing from social media.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Right. So for me personally I I I love analogies so much they really help me to like explain things that aren't always tangible. I look at my my life my journey as a garden right and I'm thinking to myself like to be the most successful and happy self that I can be in each moment one of the biggest and most important things to me that I've come to realize after having my baby actually it took me all the way to figure this piece out was figuring out how to cultivate joy. And what I mean by that is how in your garden of life what things can you plant what can you put in your life what can be like those just things that are in your life that they are good for you, good for your soul will cause you to just feel you know to blossom and to be your success as successful as you can be. So for me a lot of times I have taken advantage of that slowdown I mentioned of that like okay life can slow down where we all have the excuse that COVID's happening and we're all just trying to get through it. So I can slow down and just get through it. So one of the things I noticed was that I was doing a lot of doom scrolling right so doom scrolling is when you get on social media maybe you start with like oh I'm just gonna see what so and so said and what's so oh okay look they had that for dinner. Oh look at those new shoes or you know like oh look at these cats you start there but depending on what's going on in the media because we you know there's this behind the scenes like really very insidious connection between the media and policy like it's insidious and it's it's really catching a lot of people they pay money it's access pay to play thank you so even if you start on a on a on a seeking joy route they have figured out a way to take you down paths that are going to start grow putting weeds in your garden you know so whether that's politics and I'm not saying ignore the news I think like we've been saying the word balance throughout this it's all about balance. But being mindful of your doom scrolling you're seeking out of these negative stories you're seeking out of just constantly you know trying to get this dopamine hit that's ultimately having you shoulder more in that moment than you really need to like we have so much broad access to anything we want to see hear learn about in the world right why not when you can like when you're seeking that balance try to keep it there but when you notice that something else is in play and that it's it's skewing what you're seeing to a more negative way if that is consistently happening for me it has just been to cut it completely off you know I cannot always managing everything in my life I cannot always weed those I I can't keep weeding that I can't keep telling Facebook and other things not to show me these things because that's how it was set up. That's how it was created to do. So I'm always going to be pulling those weeds out of my joy garden. So I just cut the sucker off. I just uprooted the plant I uprooted the thing by it's out it's gone you know so when you think about it like that if you do if you are able to figure out a way to you know put a timer on your phone I tried that and I just would ignore the timer and keep doom scrolling. Oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah and so I had to pull pull the thing out but if you can figure out a way to have some self-control and to really think about what's being put in front of your face and how it is affecting you how you know the anxiety levels and all the fear mongering and everything that social media has can sometimes lead to and in us you know you if you can't balance that out I just say cut it out flat outcha um because I think it'll even it'll even change your heartbeat. Absolutely there are studies about that yeah yeah you ask about literature and I I can't think of anything like at off hand like at the top of my mind but there are studies about it.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

I've seen a few TED talks about um you have a documentary about it that was pretty big last year which was funny that they released it called soci social media dilemma.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

Okay. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

And interestingly enough, I still haven't even watched it yet. Oh, it's I've just read, I've only read the articles off of Harvard, uh Harvard Health, if you like the health board and stuff, because they've been doing studies on it. I think part of it was to in order to get ready for those cases that they had against those social media giants last year. Right they needed to show how it was having adverse um effects on the public health, um, the public psyche, how it was causing division, and how J creating a fissure in the in the Republic and in a general. And that's why dealing with what was going on with the uh election, et cetera, last year, you saw those outcrops. It is a beast. And Kevin can tell you, I am not a social media person, man, versus social media. I usually keep one picture up five years. They say he never uses it if I don't. And I understand it's use. And my my fiance always tells me, hey man, you have to use it because it is the it is the way that people communicate nowadays is how you can get to the masses, especially when you're trying to get out information that will be for the good of the people. So I've tried to learn how to use and be within it, but not let it be like be my and all be all and take over me. Absolutely. But I like how you explained that darn, that that concept. Was the doom scrolling? Doom scrolling scrolling is real.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Yep. Yep. And it it it is almost like I think there was one study or either a TED talk I I saw or read at one point where the mechanism in our brains, like the dopamine and the feel-good chemicals in our brains, social media does provide that for us. And so a lot of times it does. And a lot of times folks can develop meaning. Yeah, right. Yes. Folks can develop almost like a slight addiction to being in their phones and to, you know, scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. You know, there were times when before I I totally wiped everything, I, you know, I still have my Instagram just because I've been able to cultivate joy with Instagram better than any other social media platform at this time. But there were times when I had like all the other uh social media platforms and I would just tell myself, okay, put your phone down. And the next thing I know, it's back in my hand. And I don't even remember I don't even remember picking the thing up. And I'm just suddenly like 20, 30 minutes deep in somebody's like wall reading their reading comments about of people I don't even know and getting emotionally invested and involved and they're back and forth and their echo chamber and all that, you know? Yeah. Oh, it can be a dick.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

I have a question for you, and I think this is an interesting one, especially for folks in the adulting range that we are talking about, uh, getting the make sure that they're paying attention to the podcast in this area. Why is Instagram okay? Like, what makes Instagram better than the other ones? I've always asked this because everybody loves the Instagram. They feel like it's a better product than some of these other things. Unless, like, you want to watch people dance and sing, then you're gonna be a TikTok or you're gonna look at the TikTok stuff. But why did you like Instagram over the other ones? I'm just an interesting question. I just want to see why you that and you know what?

SPEAKER_00 49:00

Um that's a great question. I'm I'm actually trying to think about why. I I think with Facebook, I think Facebook, the way it's designed, allows more for that echo chamber effect. Okay, you know, I think Facebook, just the way I think it's something about the design of Instagram that you don't really get that echo chamber effect. And it's so hard to explain.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

Do you feel like you have more control?

SPEAKER_00 49:29

Yes, it feels like more control. It feels like if I decide on Instagram that I'm only following cat, people that post cats, and I'm only following people who do yoga, and I'm only gonna follow pictures of cute babies, like I can do that, and that's all I'm really gonna see, you know?

SPEAKER_02 49:45

Oh, ain't nothing wrong with that, yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

But with Facebook, I feel like those very specific things that are fun and feel good, they're that you can come by them on there, but there's just too much other things peppered in there that show up on your timeline and show up to me seem like they show up more frequently, you know? Gotcha. So yeah, I think it's better control. I think just with the joy garden that I mentioned earlier, Instagram, it's just a better, it it's just an overall better tool to cultivate that joy that that I'm always trying to figure out in each moment where the joy is in this moment. Yeah, so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

No, I know because I I I have I always ask folk what social media uh platforms they use and I always think about the ages, et cetera, because I think they the social it's a it's a actual product, and so that product is being actually uh marketed towards certain people, but it's nice seeing who uses what for what and how people feel about them uh because it does change from person to person. But Instagram has by by has by far, by far, has the most positive reaction from people that have asked about social media platforms.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

Interesting, okay.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

Yeah, Instagram, that one, that no wonder. I see why uh Facebook bought them.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

Yeah, they were just I know, and that creeps me out a little bit, knowing that Facebook still has access to my stuff, but they're doing it in a real sneaky way.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

They are sneaky, they are very sneaky. Um, but just getting we're getting up to an hour on our timeline. And I do have a few, yeah, we're having a good conversation. That's what good conversation does. It makes the time.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

Here you go.

SPEAKER_01 51:21

I do have a few other things I do want to ask you. Of course. And these are going to be questions that I know I have because I I like I understood the situation that we're going through with COVID, and then I also understand dealing with somebody in our family who has mental health issues and the need for them to have contact with people.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:43

And the want to have contact, and not being able to go to church services or the local little things that they could have afforded to go say hi to folks and whatnot. And I remember there was a 60 minutes broadcast about older folks now having live-in roommates just so that they can live at home, not go to the nursing home, not subject themselves to issues with COVID, but also have assistance and stuff and companionship. Yeah. So do you have any pointers on how to foster healthy social interactions during this time of limited opportunity?

SPEAKER_00 52:18

Right. So that I think that can truly and honestly vary from person to person. Seriously. We are social beings. Like we we for the most part, most folks like to at least be around their family or around friends, just to be out and about, you know, even the most introverted person, I feel like, can get some sort of some sort of goodness from from other people, you know. So that that really is from person to person. I would say like the most important aspect of figuring out how that's going to look for you is to make sure you're extremely mindful that COVID is real, that people are dying from it, that people are are are having effects from it. So keeping that in mind once you decide on how you want to socialize, that's number one. And then, I mean, there's so many different options. I know for my for my kids that I'm, you know, that I'm providing therapy services to, a lot of them just being able to come like school, you know, no middle schooler just loves school, but coming to school and being around their peers and at least having those social interactions has been beneficial for some of them, you know. For folks where that's not an option, I love what you just said about some of our older folks, our older citizens having roommates who they have that though those, you know, those social situations that they can be in. I know for me, like I have a few close friends that we're very open and honest about the context we've been in. I get tested personally monthly at least, since I am in the schools. You know, I feel like my schools have done a phenomenal job keeping folks safe. We all wear masks. You know, the janitorial staff wipes things down every hour on the hour, wipes everything down.

SPEAKER_02 53:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

Yeah. Oh yeah, they've done a phenomenal job. I felt pretty safe at my school. So cool. But, you know, we're I have some friends that were very open and honest about who we've been in contact with, kind of what's been going on, when we were tested last. And then once we can come up with a time and a date to hang out, you know, I've gone to social distance bonfires with friends where we've got the fire in the middle, chairs are spread out six feet apart, and then we're able to spend time that way and catch up and talk and we feel comfortable and safe because we've had that conversation. And as far as we all know, we don't have COVID and we're we're coming to each other in a safe way. So if folks are comfortable to do that, I would say, you know, figure out who your close people are who will bring you those good vibes and you can leave feeling better and like your some joy was cultivated with them. Figure out ways to do that, you know, stay six feet, but still be in that same space. And of course, if that's not feasible, if that's just not a way that that you're comfortable with socializing right now, you know, we're gonna fall back again on social media. Zoom, you know, these same group of friends, we've done Zoom check-ins before, you know. So social media definitely is filling a need. You know, I know I was knocking it pretty hard earlier, but it is filling a need right now. It is, and I know that.

SPEAKER_01 55:11

Like they said, the devil's in the details and it's a tool. So it can be used for positive or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

Exactly. Yeah. So I, you know, I would just say keep your safety first, mask up, sanitize, do everything, get tested when you can and when you're able. But if you do have folks that you trust and that you know you can spend time with and and and their intention is to be safe and keep you safe, you know, I that's for me personally, is is how I've been navigating it. Just to have that. So because I mean, I don't know if you could tell, but I like to talk.

SPEAKER_02 55:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

Yeah, I'm an extrovert. So I'm like, okay, friend, are you healthy? Can I come by? You know, that's for me.

SPEAKER_01 55:48

So this is our first winter as well with this. And usually during the winter, we're inside with people to keep our spirits up and stuff because there's less sunlight and you're dealing with seasonal, uh, seasonal effective disorder. Yeah. Come on. So this this is a very weird one. This is the first time for this. So I always like to add, I wanted to ask that question specifically because you also have folk who are who need continuous interaction for mental wellness, and they're they're right now being isolated. And then you also have families who need time from away from each other, because I know you have probably seen this information about the divorce rates and the breakups and et cetera, that have happened during COVID.

SPEAKER_00 56:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 56:33

Man is wild out there. Uh everyone's struggling.

SPEAKER_00 56:39

Like every everybody's really struggling right now.

SPEAKER_01 56:42

Mm-hmm. Just to deal with those things. But are there any positives that you could take away from this current isolation? I know you're talking about having the time to slow down. Yeah, that we could leverage right now, something so we can end on a positive note on that point, because it just feels so it's such a negative thing to think about, just being alone or alone.

SPEAKER_00 56:59

I know, I know. Well, one positive thing that I would say is like in regards to mental health, because even if you are the the if you cope well, if your life has been generally without too much difficulty, you know, even if you don't have any trauma or anything that would that would lead you to possibly have any, you know, mental health difficulties, because mental health issues can happen to anybody. You know, you know, rich people, famous people, every any, if you have a brain and a heart and a mind, right, nobody's immune. You can have mental health issues. If you're human, you can have them. And so with that being said, it's it's it's I can imagine, especially with what I've seen, that even the the someone who typically doesn't deal with mental health issues, I can imagine that there have been some difficulties and changes in their mental health based on everything that we are trying to work through. So what I would say is that one, you're not alone with that, you know, like we, there's people that deal with mental health issues like myself, even if we weren't going through a pandemic. So you're not alone in in those struggles and those feelings and those things you're trying to navigate. Two, there is hope. Like I named some agencies earlier, some true, beautiful people who I know personally who will talk with you and help you figure out your light, help you process anything you need to to be your best self, to be the superhero in your own story. So there is hope and there's help. You know, there's a long history of therapists developing and making mental health what it is today. And it's a very positive-centered and very client-centered and very, how can you be the superhero in your own story-centered thing for the most part? You know, like mental health is a positive thing. Sometimes you have to uncover and reveal and do some shadow work and things that might hurt you in that moment. But that, yeah, oh Lord, I'm still listening that that's the work right there. But you know, there are things you have to uncover and work through that can be difficult. But the thing about mental health and therapists, you're not alone in that. You are not on that journey in the darkness by yourself. Maybe you were coming to them, but the reason you came to them is because you wanted to figure out where is my light? I can't find it. Where is it? Can you help me? And then once a therapist works with you in all the different ways and techniques that we have to do that, and you see that you see your light, and then you learn how to carry it for yourself, and then you are lighting your own path. Like it's a beautiful thing. So to the most positive thing that I can say about all of this, you know, with COVID, with politics, with everything that's going on that like ultimately is just shit, you know, and sucks. There is even hope in all of that. Like people don't have to be alone in that. If they, you know, there's ways to figure out how not to be alone, even if it's virtual check-ins, there is hope. There, there, there's joy that can be cultivated. There's a journey that can start today, even to get you to the other side of what you're facing. So, yeah, the positive thing is that there's hope, really and truly. And I know that personally. I've I've, you know, with my own journey. I I there are some days where I literally should not be alive and sitting here having this conversation because what was in front of me seemed way bigger than anything I could face or bear. But there is hope. Like it you there is. I'm just telling you from this perspective, from having been what I through what been through what I've been through. Yeah, there's hope. There is. That's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:27

So that's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:29

That's what I like to hear, man. I I love, I want to end it on that positive, that positive and let folk out there know that if there are things that you do need assistance with, there is, there are actual ways for you to get in contact with folks who can help deliver some of the tools that you need to better your situation and your overall mental health. It's not something that needs to be seen as a as a negative thing or that should have a bad mark on it. And it's not something that you should be afraid to ask about or seek out information uh for. That's that's one thing. If we can get that across, especially in in the communities of the black and the brown folks, I think a lot of things will we'll be able to look on the up and up. So man, it has been a great conversation with you today. We have talked for well over an hour. We did our job today. We will be putting skip work on this one. I know it was just quite in the background. So I was like, I knew the time was coming up. I was like, okay, well, we gotta get these things in. We have to get these questions in. Absolutely. And we love talking with folks. And one reason why we love the podcast, I know Kevin and I discussed this yesterday, is because we actually get to talk to professionals and people who deal in subjects that we have uh little, sometimes to no education on. So it's nice being able to understand these things like creating a large toolbox and wealth of information, things that can be looked back upon and connections that we can have to be able to spread the knowledge to others and let folk get in contact with you. Now, this is usually the time of the show when I ask you to plug yourself and to tell us about any social media contacts and ways for people to get in touch with you. However, I don't think that we're probably gonna be doing that today, but are there any any ways that you anything you want to leave with the guests are ways of people to contact or things that we should post for you? Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:25

The the the places I talked about earlier, so so docitybail.org. Absolutely. True Serenity SC. These are these are uh therapists, local therapists that absolutely will are ready for this journey with you. True Serenity, True Serenity SC, I Inspire, Angels of Hope, Slash Brighter Pathways. Definitely want to plug those things as you start, decide to start, or contemplating starting your mental health journey. I am either involved or indirectly of involved with those places. So, you know, it's not about me. You can plug my stuff, but ultimately getting to those resources is is really what would be great for those listening. Yeah. So I am grateful to y'all. Like that's that's one way I cultivate joy is by being as grateful as I can in every moment. So I am grateful for y'all having me, but I'm ultimately grateful for y'all doing this for the culture and doing this for the community and trying to get the word out about like how everyone can be on the best journey they can be on. So I definitely want to just put it out there and manifest that y'all will grow, that this will touch who it needs to touch. And my hope and prayer is that some of your heroes even end up on this podcast and you look back at these early times and and you marvel at how far you've come. So that is my hope and wish and manifestation for y'all.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:46

That's it for today's episode of the Hilltop Glove Podcast. Make sure to subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and other platforms. Also, follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Hilltop Glove.