SPEAKER_00 1:46

This episode of the Hilltop Glove Podcast is sponsored by Turntable City, located at 202 Suite A, West Main Street in Lexington, South Carolina, where you can find vinyl, records, albums, and everything in between. For more information about selling vinyl CDs and tapes, please visit their website, www.turntable-city.com, where you can download the sound of turntables with free DJ mixes, remixes, and instrumentals. Be sure to follow them on Facebook and Instagram at Turntable City.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Welcome to the Hilltop Glodcast, where Skip and DJ and Watt interview guests and discuss topics such as business, current events, and pop culture. The motivational podcast for the hip hop millennial.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Good morning, everybody. Just a skip. I'm with my co-host, DJ Ann Watt. Today, we're gonna be talking with Mr. Duvall, is a storyteller, producer, director, educator, and fellow hip-hop aficionado. Shakis, well, that's how I refer to or I know. He's done work for VH1, Discovery Channel, ESPN, BET, and locally here in Columbia with the Mungo Companies, Justice 360, and the American Cancer Society. And he is the founder of Underreal OTR Media Group. Shakis, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_05 3:25

First of all, who is Skip? Oh, that's me, man. That's me.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

That's what my friends call me, man. Nickname, man. They've always called me that.

SPEAKER_05 3:34

I ain't never heard that. Kevin, I've known you over 10 years. I ain't never heard of Skip.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

I know, man.

SPEAKER_04 3:44

What is going on here?

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Move up and doing well, living life, having a good time doing it. What's the skip thing about, and what? You gotta explain it to me. Man, all right, so Kevin, like, he used to, we always used to, we at first we called him people'cause because people? No, just like people. Like, you remember Shaft? You remember the movie Shaft, the newer movie Shaft? So they had a guy in the Peoples and they called him Peoples because he just knew everybody. Right. Well, Kevin networks with everybody. And because of that, we started calling him Peoples, but after a while, we were like, maybe we shouldn't call him Peoples because association with the criminal and the shaft. So we started just calling him Skip. And um, that name, it just stuck ever since. And that was like, that would that goes back to Joe Strowman and our and our homeboy Montrez and stuff at the College of Charleston. So when we ever we used to do events, parties, or whatever it was, fundraisers and stuff like that. In Charleston, we just called him Skip, and we put that on everything since I mean we are hip-hop and identity, so everybody has a moniker. You find something to come with, so we had to come up with something for him. So we call him Skip. It's better than back in the day, because back in the day it was always him, my dad, and since he's a junior, we would call him Lil Kevin. So you got Big Kevin and Lil Kevin. So Kevin, he I know he's happy to graduate from Lil Kevin because he's no longer little, so we had to call him something else. I can tell you right now, I'm never calling you staggers again.

SPEAKER_05 5:09

I'm only calling you Skip.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Yeah, because that's true. That's yeah, that's what you all you guys called me that. You Kingsley, yeah, all y'all call me staggers.

SPEAKER_05 5:17

Well, we all met, we all met staggers as a producer, you know what I mean? So that's how we met. Yeah, and um, well, Skip. So I feel like I feel like I'm Shannon Sharp. There you go, you're right. Right now, yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Skip is Shannon, Skip. Yeah, man. I believe Oh, yeah, pleasure, man. And you know, you were definitely somebody that when we first started the podcast, as far as guests, we were definitely looking to um get you on, especially for this first season that we're gonna be doing. And I know behind the scenes, I know we were working on, of course, getting everything lined up and scheduled for a couple months now. Because I know, of course, you're very busy and you have a lot of projects and stuff, you do a lot of traveling. And I know a lot of people don't realize that. We were chopping it up about you being on here since probably like February, end of January, beginning of February. Right. We were talking about it. Yeah. It's it's so that was good. So like I said, I'm just looking forward, like I said, just to you know having you up here so you know we can kind of talk, just kind of ask some questions, you know, that, and just kind of have a conversation that we don't really normally get to have. Because I know one of the purposes of doing the podcast was I was like, I wanted to bring on guests and people that I know that are people not necessarily that I guess I kind of look up to or respect, but I have conversations with them in passing. But because what we're having it in passing, and there's a lot of stuff usually going on when I'm, you know, like connecting with them, we really don't have time to really talk or chat. Because either they're busy doing something at the event or whatever's going on, and vice versa. And you were definitely like a you're like a model of that because it's like you're somebody I always want to sit down and have a conversation with, but there's always other stuff going on and happen.

SPEAKER_05 7:01

Right. Wow. Well, thank you, man. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Kev. That was very heartfelt, but I'm a little bit distracted because my neighbor's dog is going hell. I hear him, that's all right. And this never happens. Like, but but this this I live in I live in Earlwood, downtown in Columbia. And uh, be quiet. All right, my mother lives in Earlwood. Oh, okay. Wow, that makes me feel old. But um it's messy with you, bro. And so there's this uh the big flea market happening on the table where everybody's selling stuff in their front yard. So everybody's walking around. Oh I didn't think about that um uh until just now. And I was like, why is this dog gonna have? I'm like, oh, because all these people walk around the neighborhood today. So there we go. That's all good. We'll work around it. But with that said, yeah, man, I really appreciate that. I you know, anytime somebody thinks well enough of me, it makes me feel like I'm doing something right. So I'm always down with it.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Word, word. And of course, man, when anybody, when anybody hears your name, of course, they're automatically gonna think um Shakis the Beast. So that triggers, you know, that's gonna trigger hot 103.9, and of course, like non-stop hip-hop and stuff, you know, and of course, and then other things too, you know, like even with like a piece of hip-hop, you know. So when people associate with you, you know, that's what they think. They think hip-hop, the culture, South Carolina, Columbia. Yep. Right. And yeah. And then, you know, you gave a lot of artists, um, local artists, you know, their first bit of airtime. And you, you know, you did the freestyle calling segment too, during the shows. And of course, personally for me, you know, the beat street beat battles. You know, I had some good days and I had some bad days at the beach street beat battles. But it's all memorable to me, maybe the person that I am today. No, man. Yeah, but but uh one of the things I know since that time is you've made a name for yourself in the world of um film production, visual storytelling, and documentary filmmaking in particular. If you could just answer this question before, it's like how did that evolution happen for you?

SPEAKER_05 9:07

Well, it's actually quite interesting, and I uh you know, I tell the story a lot, but you know, I've I've I've been in the film and and telling stories since I was probably eight years old. Probably before that, you know, when I was in in in third grade, my mom, whenever whenever people get close enough to me to go to my mom's. My mom also has this book that I wrote, the story of a stamp, when I was in third grade, and I I made it, I I wrote it like a movie. And so whenever people go to her house, she always breaks it out, you know, they embarrass me. But I it just understand that, you know, all the while I was Shakista Beast, well, not all the while, but a lot of the time that I was Shakista Beast, I was in school, you know. Um it's funny because I went to USC and uh I at the time I was DJing on the radio. So I I was you know, five days a week. I did the new mix 20-minute workout, and then I did uh Friday night, Saturday night, and then Sunday afternoon I had an old school hip hop show and a reggae show. So I was on the air a lot. And so people would see me on campus and be like and I would hear people. I I curse. Can I curse? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I knew it was gonna come out, and I I don't I don't, you know, if y'all bleep it out later, I'm gonna feel bad because I was like, ah, I could have just self-uh muted myself, but uh like a radio hip hop version. But uh, but yeah, people would see me on campus and be like, yo, get guess who I seen on campus acting like they go here. I seen Shakespeare Beast walking around and I'm like, nigga, I really do go here, but I got it. You know what I mean? People see me on TV, or you know, I I was blessed to have a bunch of opportunities when it came to hip-hop, you know, from DK parties or you know, BT and MTV, and you know, uh, you know, of course, radio. And I was on radio in in several states, you know, uh in addition to South Carolina. So, you know, and then plus, you know, nonstop hip hop live, and then we did shows and concerts and events and had birthday parties. And so, you know, people a lot of people kind of there was a Shakespeare Beast era, if you will. You know, I'm finding out. Excuse me, as I get older, people be like, oh man, you know, I grew up on you, I used to listen to you at work, or you know, it it's it's we it's weird. But that was never my thing. Like I tell people all the time to ask me this question. I got in a DJan to win a pair of gold turntables. You know, when I was 15 years old, I saw a friend of mine show me the DMC battles, the world world DMC battles. You can win a pair of gold turntables and a gold mixer, and I was like, yo, I want to do that. So I used to stay up at my house all night, you know, which actually DJing saved me from the streets because I was selling a little bit of hand in hand at the time. And but DJ kept me in the house because I'd be in the house all night watching rock raider tapes and watching tapes and you know, DJing at three or four in the morning, and I ended up getting a pair of turntables because my my my homeboy Jabrell Mean, shout out to Bree, he's a lieutenant colonel now uh up in North Carolina. He just got a command up there. I'm very proud of him. But his cousin was going to the military, was getting rid of his DJ equipment, and I lied and was like, yo, I know how to DJ, give it to me. You know, DJ equipment off a live when I was 15 and became Shakespeare Beast in high school. And so a lot of people knew me for that because I've been DJing for so long. But my passion was filming TV, which is what I went to school for. And so it was weird, Kev, for a minute I was living like this double life, if you will. I was Shakista Beast at night, even in the daytime, because people didn't know I was pre-recording my mixes on the radio by the time I by the time I really started being a producer at Genesis and doing a lot of work for a lot of these big companies like Discovery Health and ESPN. I'd be on the air, but I'm not actually on the air. It's just it's pre-recorded. And so I would be on sets, you know what I mean? And uh it came a point in time in 2008. I remember I had the biggest commercial job I ever had, which was I was producing a series of commercials for colonial life, you know, not the local, the national or organization. Uh I think at the time that I bought by Unum. And so they were doing these six huge spots. The budget was like $380,000. And it was a huge, huge commercial. And uh series of commercials with six of them. And I remember it was we was in Newberry filming. I was sitting in my producer chair, it was like 11:30 at night on a Friday, and I said to myself, if somebody called me right now to DJ a party, would I go? And I said, No, no way in hell. And right then I was like, I gotta quit. Exactly. And what's it was interesting is I I remember telling myself I was gonna quit. And then like a month later, I DJ somewhere, woke up the next morning, I didn't realize I left my car unlocked, and somebody got me for all my gear. Yeah. And in my car, like that is I I remember I turned around, I looked in the backseat, everything was gone except the records. I looked up at the ceiling, and I was like, I got it. I was like, I hear you. Yep. Just like that. Um I went up to the radio station and I told Chris Connors was the production program director at the time. I think he's still the program director hot. He just thought I was going to another station. He's just like, man, even another market. Because I was DJing in a lot of markets at the time. New York, Maine, you know, South Carolina, Florida. I was kind of everywhere. Georgia, uh doing a lot of pre-recorded mixes all over. And I was like, nah, man. I was like, January 2009, it's a rap for She Gee Sto Beats. And I quit to do film full time. And I was, you know, bro, you got you gotta keep in mind, I'm 40 hours a week at Genesis. Plus, if I'm working on set, you know, that means I'm doing 60 hours a week. Because, you know, you could have a 10-hour day or a 14-hour day on set, right? Plus, I'm DJing five times a week on the radio, which I gotta do all I used to do all those pre-recorded mixes on Sunday. So I'd be at the radio station on Sunday from like two to like 11. You know what I mean? Recording all these mixes for hours. Sometimes I would have to pre-record Friday night, Saturday night too if I had to work, you know what I mean? Yeah. And then I was still DJing. So I would still, sometimes I would leave set, I'd be at set from 5 to like 8 p.m., leave there, change clothes, put in my records in the car, and then go DJ to like three, four in the morning. You know what I mean? And it was just like a hip-hop time joiner. Serious. Around this time, you know, so this is between 2000 and 2008. So, you know, non-stop hip hop live is popping around that time. We doing KRS shows and, you know, you know, uh all this rock, rocket shows, and that's when Lyrical Buddha was around, and I'm managing Fat Rat at the time. Uh, this is before Love Peace and Hip Hop popped off. And uh and so it was unsustainable, bro. Like I was I was tired, and I was like, you know, I found I found I f I started working in the field that I love, and I actually started making real money in the field that I love, so I was like, you know, I'm gonna put Shakista Beast to bed. And everybody was like, well, how could you quit? All we know you for is DJing. But that's on you, you know what I mean? That ain't on me. Well, people that are really close to me know that I work at Genesis and I do film and I went to school for this, you know, this is what I do. But the people that weren't that close to me only knew me as Shakista Beast. And when you like a local celebrity or whatever, what have you, people kind of, you know, know you in that world. And, you know, being a musician, man, you know, you know, I and I know this to be true because I have this experience with artists I don't know. Like I feel a certain way about them. You know what I mean? Especially like, you know, you take a goody mob or a Jay-Z, like I grew up with them. So, like, you know, when artists do something else, or when they lead again, it's like, man, why would they, why would they do that? You know, they so different. You know how we do that? We do that all the time.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

We do it all the time. We do it.

SPEAKER_05 16:51

They were so ill. Like, oh, you know, what happened to, you know, uh buddy of mine, Jabari Evans from Kids in the Hall, you know. But people are like, what happened to Kids in the Hall? I'm like, well, Jabari, you know, he's a teacher now. He's actually job. But it's like, you know, you have this emotional connection, you know, to people for whatever reason. And I understand it because I get it, but but I don't mind people still calling me Shakespeare, you know. I earn that name, you know what I mean? So that's why, you know, in the in the film world, I took that name with me. So, you know, everything we'll say Sharar, Shakespeare, use the stuff that I'm working on because it's all me, you know what I mean? It's all a part of it. You know what I mean? And so hip-hop for me wasn't a job. Hip hop for me was life. You get me, and so like me being a DJ wanting to win some gold turntables, that was part of my life, bro. Like that that's and so I'm always gonna be hip-hop forever. You know, I got I don't have no turntables no more, but I got one of them old school 50s turntables and records, you know what I mean? Like I said, you know, you could, you know, I'm still a hip-hop dude, you know, but you know, I don't DJ no more or anything like that. But but yeah, so it was easy for me to go. It was easy for me to make that transition because I never got into hip hop as a career. Here's another one. So everything that happened to me when it came to Shakespeare Beast's career was happenstance. I had to tell people this all the time. I never did a demo, I never fill out an application, I never did a, you know, let me see if I can go and DJ, see if this person will hire me and DJ at this club. I never did none of that. Everything that happened at Shakespeare Beast was happenstance. I was DJing at a club, somebody would see me, yo, do you want DJ over here? You know, that's how I ended up getting on Big DM with Prince I ended up getting on High 13.9 as Mike Love saw me DJing at the Russell House, you know, and then he just so happened to hire a dude named Charlemagne and God, and next thing you know, me and Charlamagne doing a show together. Like it was all happenstance. It was never like, you know, I never, I never did it was, you know, and so like the career took on a like, well, BET, BET, all that stuff happened. B.E.T. happened because of Shaqim. You know, me and Shaqim was friends, and I can say this now because he done do this anymore, and I don't do that no more. But Sha, you know, I don't know if y'all how well y'all know Shaqim, but you know Shaqim was signed to Social Death for a minute with Bow, he's Bow Wow's too long. And so Shaq Kim would be out of town. Our DJ styles was similar. So he would call me if he had to go somewhere with Bow Wow and be like, yo, can you show up as me? You know? Like I would do that, and then you know, then I started would get gigs off of that. And so that's how things like you know, BETM TV came about. So it never was like, yo, I'ma start this career as a DJ and I'ma, you know, put this plan to be this. Like, all of it was happenstance. And so the only what I did deliberately was film. I went to school for that. I PA for that, I freelance for that. I you know, I carried lights and and and fixed, you know, you know, you know, I worked in wardrobe departments and makeup departments and construction departments and you know, assistant producer, production coordinator. I did everything, you know what I mean? Like I did that work. It wasn't like that with the DJ world. That all just kind of came. It was I was all kind of God sent. And so, yeah. So that's another important part of that that I think will help clarify for people. So that's how I made that transition, and that's why.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Hey, man, that's interesting. Just to put that together, because I know meeting you, not knowing all of that background, was so the DJing was it was a stepping stone basically for the for the other items that you went into. Because, like you said, you put your your real effort, your work, your your your free giving of your time was into your love, which was like you said, filmmaking and message creating, right?

SPEAKER_05 20:32

I can't say it was a stepping stone because it was two totally at the time I thought it was two totally different worlds. Like I told you before, um like it's like I had a double life. Like, but it was actually, I gotta give a shout out to Cliff Springs at Genesis Studios. He was the one that first told me to put Sharard Shakespeare ball on my business card. But what happened was when I'd be at Genesis, I'd be on set. And people wouldn't know that I worked at Genesis. And so people would see me and be like, yo, is that Shakes the Beast? Right? And so after that happening several times, my boss walked over to my desk, our desk were right next to each other, and he would be like, Yo, why don't you just put Shakes on your business card? Like everybody coming here know you're Shaqis. And I was trying to separate the worlds. I was trying to be like Sherard over here, Shaquille in the streets. Which is I look back on it, it was stupid, you know what I mean? But I didn't do that. Cliff Springs did that. So shout out to Cliff, everybody gents. I still got love for him and them to this day. And uh, so that's how the Sherrard Shakespeare thing actually happened was blending those two worlds together. So I own that name.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

So one of the things, actually, so a couple weeks ago, probably about three weeks ago, I ran into because you know Columbia's very small city. Oh, yeah, for sure. So, you know, so everybody is sort of it's it's probably not even six degrees, probably three degrees of separation. Probably two facts, facts. And so I remember I ran into a gentleman, Terrell Maxwell, local photographer here. Um, and I think he does some video work too. I stopped by his studio over off of he's over in Vista. And I remember I was having a conversation with one of our guest hosts that comes on all the time. Umiah Allen. And I and I brought up just the names of some of the people that we're gonna be talking to in the next couple weeks. And I brought your name came up. And one of the things he was telling me, he'd like the first thing, he was like, Oh man, you're gonna have Shakis up there. He was like, Man, talking about somebody that could tell a story. Man, I remember I was on the set. We were, I was, he let me shadow him or something, and he was like, I was on the set, he just did a shot in 14 seconds. He's like, boom, all right, good. Now let's go over here. He'd say you to get a shot in like 10 seconds, boom, good. Go over here. And he said he was so amazed at how you put the story together as far as what project you guys were working on, what project you were working on at the time. Well, yeah, and he was really impressed, like, like it was out of nowhere. I said, Oh, okay. And like, because this is my first time speaking to somebody specifically about your film work. Wow. And so, yeah, he was like really impressed. And stuff, he said he learned a lot from you just from that short time that he was with you that day on that on that particular set. And one of the things that that I thought was really dope about it was I was like, obviously, this is something you've always had this gift and you've always had this talent. And a lot of times in our community, especially like you say, because like I said, I cause hip hop in black for me, it's all synonymous to me because of the the because of who's around right now. Because we're all you know, we're all uh impacted by hip hop. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter whether or not we try to attach ourselves from it or not. But one of the things we don't do is when we have our talents, we We often will use our talents in other areas or to help other people per se, but we'll never do them for ourselves, for our own fulfillment, it seems like on times. Oh, yeah. And so for you, with and this kind of goes with the OCR Media Group piece. When did you decide that you wanted to kind of start your own media company? And can you just share a little bit with us about how you first got started?

SPEAKER_05 24:12

Yeah, actually, I will. Wow, thank you for that, you know, memory. You just never know how you influence people. You know, that that kind of thing happens to me all the time, Kev, and I'm just always like, you know, you take for granted when you're moving so fast in the world that you have a good, uh you have a good impact on people, and it's just always humbles me to hear stuff like that. So thank you for sharing that story. Must mean I'm I'm doing something right with my life. True. But OTR kind of came about initially. It was it was actually Fat's idea when I was at Genesis, and uh I had no I had no interest in in doing no media company or nothing like that on my own. You know, I was at the time, I was this is probably about 2011, I was so 2010, I was so deep into network the network TV game at that point, I was like, yeah, I didn't even think about doing you know nothing small. I I I saw it as small. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, you know, sometimes your ego can get the best of you. And and so I started doing all these videos for fat, if you remember, like Fat Rad and uh All Around the Town. We did a lot of videos together. Matter of fact, I think I did all of Fat's music videos. Um by the way, we just did a new one. Oh shit. Life and Times. Actually, we me and him collaborated on that, which is a wonderful experience. We never really did it like that before, where we just, you know, freestyled the whole concept and everything together. It was a real collaboration. Uh, you know, that's my big brother. So, but anyway, it was his idea. He was like, yo, why don't you do like you know your own production company, you know, so you can have something to operate under separate from Genesis. And I at the time, I was like, eh, I don't know, why? I'm doing this Ph1 shit. This is this is this isn't, you know, I didn't consider it a a path. And then when I started having problems at Genesis, I was like, yo, you know, if if I leave, I need something to continue doing work under. So originally OTR Films was the name of the company, and me and Fat were partners in the company, and I launched OTR Films to be something that I could do my film work under when I left Genesis, which I did in 2012. And uh, which I I I I kind of got fired, but not really. It was kind of like we got we don't know what to do with you because my ego ain't gotten so big and I was out of control at that time, and he didn't want to fire me, but he was like, I can't keep you here. Yeah, and uh and so that's my son. What's up? Okay, all right. In the front yard? All right, y'all be careful, okay? Sorry, that was my that was my cousin, actually. My uh I'm sorry. Oh yeah, all right, so OTR films, yes, yeah, like that. And uh when I started OTR Films, I wasn't really taking it on full time. It was just kind of like, yo, I got this thing, this this LLC over here, people want to hire me to do work now that I've left Genesis Studios, which did happen. But I ended up, if you remember Kevin, I was at the Nickelodeon Theater. I took a position as a director of media education over there. Yeah, I remember that. Uh-huh. And and all the education programs that they have over there that that are now under IndieGris labs. I just I built I I designed all those. But anyway, um, so so I was at the Nick, OTR was kind of like a side thing. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then I started having problems at the NIC. It just wasn't what I thought it was gonna be. You know, the my relationship with the executive director wasn't what I thought it was gonna be. He was turning it into something else, and I didn't like that. And so we we couldn't see eye to eye. And so I left in 2015. And when I left, one of the things that happened to me when I was at the Nick is I was doing all this media education work, media literacy work, which is now what a part of what we do at OTR. And uh I was working with all these kids and helping them, you know, learn filmmaking and uh writing these curriculums for schools and teaching people of learning all about media literacy, and it was really blowing my mind. And I really started loving that work, and I started getting more into documentary work when I was at the Nick. And what really connected me to documentary, I'm just gonna be 1000% honest. I started, we started going to film festivals like Sundance and stuff like that. So we would go around the country and we would go to all these festivals, and I would meet all these people in Chicago and Providence and New York, boom, boom, boom. And I started seeing these budgets for these documentary films. Now, I'm coming from the corporate side of, you know, I'm ESPN Discovery Channel. I'm going that way because I'm thinking, you know, that's gonna be my path to the money. Yeah, you know, I go over here and I'm looking at these guys that got budgets and the millions of dollars. And I'm like, you can do, I had no idea. Like my mind frame of documentary work was, oh, you know, you're gonna be a broke artist. Like, I ain't about that life, bro. You know? And uh I started seeing these budgets, I was like, oh, I could do this as a career. What what what's up? Y'all need some help? Yep. All right, hold on for a second, all right? Hold on for one second. Let me finish the story, then I'll help them out. So parent life, who who don't have kids? And what you got kids? No, not yet. I'm getting ready, particularly in this digital, in this digital age, man. It is what it is. But so and what I'll I'll try to make it short. So basically what happened was when I when I saw that, I said, yo, you know, this could be a thing. And at when I left the Nick, I had all of this credo as a media literate literacy professional. And I was working with a lot of people when it came to media strategy, internally and externally, meaning how do I manage media outside of my company? But hey, we're trying to launch this initiative. You know, how how before we start developing a logo, how do we put together a strategy for this brand? I started doing that work. And then I was like, I could add the documentary work to that, and that was the foundation of what became OTR in 2015 when I worked at Nick. So I spent the next 25 months saving money, literally doing projects that I felt felt the ethos of what the company should look like and feel like. You know, you know, spent a ton of money on doing the branding. Shout out to Jessica Boyd and Tiffany Hughes, who I love forever because they they developed the branding for OTRMG, and uh put those three categories up, made sure I had enough fresh work because I've I was I'm like, you know, I'm a hip-hop dude, so you know, Outcast always says your only funky is your last hit. So I didn't want to come into the game using nothing I used at Genesis. You know, though I didn't, I mean, it's all on my resume, the stuff I did for ESB and the Visual, all that shit, but it's not a part of my business. Now it's like I want all fresh shit. I want all shit I produced that OTR Media Group can say we did this. And so I did that for 25 months and launched the company officially in uh on uh January 2018. And so that's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

Going back to what the kids think, that's something that's been a whole different thing. And we got to talk about that because I've during this podcast, because that's the thing creatively, because I know there's two, there's no, there's one person I used to always talk about this with, but of course, with the pandemic, I really haven't been seeing them around and stuff. But I used to talk with Kingsley a lot about this type of stuff. Like, you know, getting older, how you like maintain your creativity, but at the same time, your responsibilities. So that's another reason why we started doing the podcast too, because it's like we want to talk to people creatives of a certain age. Exactly. Yeah, because it's like not that not that we don't want to talk to like the 19-year-old or the 20-year-old about what kind of what they're bringing to the table, what gifts or talents they got, or give them a platform. This is really about having that conversation with that person that I've been in the I've been in the creative life for this long. Now my life is changing. What am I doing? Yeah, what am I doing when I'm adult, and how do I still keep that passion and at the same time do what I'm supposed to, what I'm required to do?

SPEAKER_05 31:58

Yeah. I mean, it's called experience. You know, I was listening to this, I'm a big fan of Julia Danooga in the UK, and she had this interview on Pastor Mike the other day with this author named Brat Brathwaite. I forgot, I forgot her first name. And uh she was like, uh, I got nothing against young people giving advice, but you ain't had enough periods yet. I was like, yo, that's the perfect way to put it. I mean, so I get what you're saying, you know, experiences, particularly when you when you have kids and you have you're married in a long-term relationship, you know, being able to maintain that creativity is interesting. It's an interesting perspective from us. And for me, you know, my life is like I told you earlier. I mean, it was an offhand comment earlier, but I really do live my life face up, you know. It just makes makes my life easier. And so, you know, my life as a parent is kind of blended into my life as as shakis. Because, you know, my son is always around, you know, number one, you know, everybody knows what I do. My mom, you know, I I don't have like no secret artist life. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 33:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:05

It is my life. So everybody that knows my life knows what I do. It's all it's all one thing. And I also made sure that I put the time in and worked a plan that was financially beneficial. You know, you know, it was hard starting OTR at first. You know, I I went flat broke. You know, I tell everybody, you know, those 25 months I put in was kind of a crazy thing to do because most people would be like, well, I'm gonna go get a job, you know what I mean? But I just knew, and which I did, I actually was working overnight at Target, but I wanted my daytime free to work on OTR. So I did that during those 25 months.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

And I have a quick question for you, Shakespeare. Did you were during that 25 months, this is just for the for the listeners, just as a perspective, were you just fundraising or were you earning your own money and putting your own money aside for the So I was doing, I was making my own money and putting my own money aside.

SPEAKER_05 34:01

I wasn't raising no funds. So you're doing it the real way. Yeah, if I wasn't doing work in the daytime for OTR, then I was working at night for Target. I was literally working overnight offloading trucks.

SPEAKER_04 34:15

Man, you're a good man. Yeah, that's the real way to do it.

SPEAKER_05 34:18

Yeah, I mean, I had a lady, you know what I mean, and I had a baby, you know what I mean? So I had to keep working, but I so you know, and it was a grind, you know what I mean. I was extremely tired and and you know, a little bit embarrassed, you know what I mean? Because, you know, I would walk up and talk to people like, what the fuck is Shakespeare Beast doing all the what I was trying to do, you know. Yeah, you're building, you know, that I try to tell people, like, it's not about the right now, it's about what are you working towards. You know, fuck how people feel about what's happening right now. Like, if they don't they don't understand what you're working towards. And um, and so no, bro, I was working to make money because I needed money to start the business. I needed money to build the business exactly how I wanted it because I had a defined plan of how the business would look, the three areas we would work in, what our business plan needed to look like, right? And I, you know, what our brand needed to look like because I knew who I wanted to compete with in the marketplace. And so I took those months to invest in myself and you know, grind out, you know, to the max. And uh, like I said before, I was flat broke when we launched OTR that January. I had a I had a release, I had a party where I invited like, not really a party, uh, we went to the grand and I invited like people that I know, like my mom and uh, you know, some close friends of mine, and and they came to celebrate with me. I had $18. I was like, I hope nobody don't ask me to buy them no drink. Everybody's you know looking at the website and the website launched and everything, and I was over there like, man, I don't know what I'm gonna do for rent. I was broke, you know, I was behind on everything. And three months later, I had the biggest deal I ever had on my own. You know, paying for paid for that 25 months in one day, and it was the best feeling in the world because I knew I did the right thing.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

And so And you didn't have to, you didn't have to answer anybody because like you said, you didn't take funds from other people, you raised that money and worked that money yourself to create your dream. That's uh that's a big thing for our audience to hear and understand that you can do that that yourself because normally they're used to hearing, hey, I have to crowdsource or fund through these these these different either these different platforms or go to larger groups, and then you're kind of beholden to what they want you to produce after that. You know, could you explain that side of how that works? I know you work with corporate in the corporate um media business, and just to explain that to the audience, why you did all that work to be to stay independent, basically.

SPEAKER_05 36:43

Well, I I put that work in because I had a specific vision for how I wanted the company to be. Okay. And I knew if I wanted the company to be that way, I was gonna have to show people what I what that looked like. You know, I had to get it out of my head and I had to make it a reality. And, you know, that was everything for how much the branding was gonna cost, how much the website was gonna cost. You know, a lot of people looked at me at that time when they saw, you know, what I was spending on these things, they was like, why would you spend that much on a website, bro? And I was like, nah, I was like, look at these are the people I'm trying to compete with. They're making $100,000 on their projects, they doing $250,000 commercials. I'm trying to compete with them. I can't have a website that look like I'm trying to compete with somebody that's, you know, you know, that's on Wix, you know, or you know, I mean free Wix website. You know what I mean? I just couldn't do that. And so I had to put the work in. So that's what that's really about, and what is, you know, what is your vision for what you're trying to do? And if that vision is clear and you know the marketplace you want to compete in, then you got to put the work to make that happen. And here's the thing about that, when you do it that way, is nobody can take it from you. True. That's that's the part that I that I love more than anything else. Is once that march happened and I got that one gig that changed my whole life and the direction of my company forever, I knew that I could do it because I did it. You know what I mean? Can't nobody can't nobody take that from me. And so that's the part that I always encourage people to, you know, if you you got something you want to do, you got a business or a plan, put the work in, bro, and then work that plan. Work that plan, make sure you check off every bullet list on that plan until it's all checked off. And then when it's checked off, you're gonna have to wait a little bit. You're gonna have to be a little bit patient because it's it ain't gonna all happen at once. But it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. If you if you put together a solid plan, you work that plan, and you know that the plan you put together is a plan that's workable, which is the other thing. Because a lot of times people put together plans that's not then that's not workable. Not realistic. Yeah, not realistic, it's not a realistic plan. You didn't do no data. Like I tell people you know all the time, like we live in a data age. Like, it's so easy to get data nowadays. Shoot, most companies do it for you.

SPEAKER_04 38:50

And so you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 38:52

And so I went into it saying, okay, do I have the clientele or the or the network where I can do projects at a $50,000, $100,000 project? You see what I'm saying? I didn't go, oh well, I'm a dream. One day I'll be over there, like, nah. That shit. I was like, you know, let me look at at who's in my phone, yeah, who can I touch? Will these people pay me for what I know? And I said they will, but there's a certain bar I gotta hit. So I did my best to put the work in to hit that bar. And and and one of the things I love about doing it for yourself, man, is the freedom that you get with writing your own, you know, you the next phase of what that looks like. You know, because I don't owe nobody, I'm not beholden to anybody. Yeah. Okay, I did it this way. What's the next version of this? Let's see what else I can do. It's almost like kind of like a high, you know what I mean? That that you've built for yourself. And it's just, you know, and man, like seeing your parents and my even my lady. My lady was there when I was broke, and like, you know, what nigga, what you gonna do? Like, nigga, you got a jazz boy, like we just make it work. You know what I mean? I gotta be real. Because this is the thing. We're talking about only creatives, these are the things we deal with. When I talk to people my age or a little bit younger than me all the time, I always ask them, bro, what kind of lifestyle do you want to live? Like, like what you wanna do is there's somebody doing it that's living the lifestyle you want to live. Because you're gonna have to figure out that paper part. Yes. The two things that you got to deal with at our age is money and time. Like your family needs time, your wife needs time, your kids need time. So, does this bullshit you want to do, is it gonna fucking give you some time and is gonna give you some fucking paper? Like without without those two things, you know, you're gonna be you're gonna be. I don't want to be the type of person that that everybody around me looks at my dream like shit. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Because your dream is making their life hard.

SPEAKER_02 41:03

That's a that's a great point. That's a good point to make. Amazing point.

SPEAKER_05 41:08

I want my I want people around me to go, damn, that nigga dream, not only did that nigga dream work, what the fuck do I want to do? Yeah, you feel me? Well, she said, if you can do that, damn, then what can I do? And so my lady and my mom, like these people saw me go from flat broke, bro, bro, before I launched, I remember before I moved into the place I got now, I was sleeping on my mom's couch for two months. I'm talking about 30 some odd years old, bro. You get me. Yeah, I get you. They saw me go from that to this. I want for nothing. And they saw that. You know what I mean? And it's just like, damn, you really can't. Like, and I'm not trying that that's not no, like, I have to be very clear when I'm talking about the subject.

SPEAKER_04 41:50

You're flexing, you aren't flexing, you ain't capping.

SPEAKER_05 41:53

Nah, at all. Because when you when you over 30, particularly over 35, people gonna look at you different when you got a dream.

SPEAKER_04 42:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:03

Because they really look at, I remember my mom was like, nigga, why don't you just come work at the hotel with me? Like, they hiring.

SPEAKER_03 42:09

No.

SPEAKER_05 42:10

Oh no. You know, seriously. If you if you'd have been a creative at this age, you know you get them looks from your wife. You know what I mean? Looking at you, oh, you about to go over there and do that again? Oh, okay. Well, what time are you gonna be back? And you can just tell on her voice, she's like, this nigga just wasting his fucking time. And uh, but that's the importance of putting together a plan. See, me putting it that plan together, now, even though B saw me struggle, Benda, you met Benda Kev. Even though B saw me struggle and she saw the down parts, and there were times when she was unhappy, she saw the plan. Like I literally I had it on the wall, you know. That's what I was about to ask you.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

That's what I was about to ask you. She can how, like, because you know, when you when you say this to people having a plan and whatnot, I mean like you had a concise, written-down plan, correct? Yes, written down. Explain that, explain that for folks dates, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:07

Yeah, and so so I literally put together a schedule of, so for instance, I'll I'll take you through the process of getting the branding for the company. I I remember I hit Jessica up in 2017, 2016, and I was like, Jess, this is the kind of website I want, this is how I want it to look, you know, what is that gonna cost? She told me how much it was gonna cost. I was like, damn, that's way more than what I thought it was gonna be. I said, cool. So then I said, all right, how long is it gonna take for me to work to make that amount of money? I figured, once I figured out, you know, how many weeks it would take and how many months it would take, the next thing I did was I called Jess and was like, yo, can I do a payment plan? Right? Payment plan, can we do this in stages? And she was like, Yeah, sure, we can do it in stages as long as you can make the deposit up front. I said, cool. And so I literally wrote down the things I needed on the website. And and and mind you, I didn't contact Jess about building the brand until I had all the pieces that would go on the website. Right? I needed media literacy work, I needed documentary work, I needed media strategy work, I needed it all to be fresh. I needed that in the bag before I made the call to Jess. Right? I had all I had all this shit written down. I wish we was a video. I could show you about I still got all my notes and stuff when I did this. So that's what putting that plan together looks like. Financially, giving yourself deadlines, putting together an actual calendar, and working that plan. And because when you're working it like a job, now when you're having that conversation with your mate or with your mom, it don't sound like a pie in the sky shit.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

Yeah, yeah, most definitely.

SPEAKER_05 44:46

Because that's the part that I found out, and I learned that from my big brother Fat Rat. That's the part I found out about that particular journey. People don't want to ride with you if you ain't got no directions.

SPEAKER_04 44:59

Say it again, say it again.

SPEAKER_05 45:00

It's hard for people to ride with you if you don't have directions. When you don't know where you're going, and they're looking like, this does this nigga have directions, and he just you look like you drive around aimlessly, people gonna be like, I don't have no confidence in you. Right? But I had a plan and people could see the plan. You know, my my my girl would be like, Oh, you met with the SBDA today. How'd the meeting go with your business plan? And you know, damn, she told me I got a bunch of work to do. So what are you gonna do? I'm gonna call these three people. And then she would ask me next week, how'd it go to meet? That meeting went great, you know, or that meeting didn't go so well. You know what I mean? I I keep her, I I was very open book about how I was working my plan. She would because of that, she could engage with me with it. She could have questions about it. She you know, and she could talk shit, you know. I don't even know why you did that shit. You charge you ain't charge that nigga enough money. You know what I mean? Like, but you know, but she was able to see it for herself. It wasn't like this whole, oh, I'm going out for the night, I'll be back at 10 type shit, you know. Or where you going? I don't, you know, that's you know, it's you know, it's we me and we do our thing together. And then what's she gonna tell her mama? Well, you know, that's him and his, that's him and his don't you he and he don't be telling me about us? You know, nah.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Like I was I was very open, but I think it also shows like you you doing that shows you that you actually had pride and like you said, you had confidence in what you were doing because you had the plan. You didn't have to hide anything. And so, like you said, like you said, living face up, man, you from you're free. You are really a free man out here operating in the world.

SPEAKER_05 46:36

Yeah, man. Without a doubt about it. And you know, I got a kid, man. I got a lady that loves me. I had to, I had to, I couldn't have her looking at me like she made a bad decision.

unknown 46:49

True.

SPEAKER_05 46:49

You know what I mean? True. And and at the same time, you know, I had to, I wanted to create the type of lifestyle for my son. I'm not with my son's mom, you know, and so, you know, anybody that's in that situation like me knows that it's precarious. Like any given moment, you know, child support could could trip you up, or she could do something where you can't see a child, you know what I mean? And so I was like, nah, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna be that. And so I gotta work this plan and I gotta let everybody around me know what's going on, and I gotta let them see it and and have discussions with me about it, and ask me questions about it. And uh, because a lot of times when you're doing it that way, Kev, the people around you can participate. So what I mean is they may go, you know, they may go, oh, you know, yo, baby, I saw this camera on sale, you know, or you know, I met this guy today who's a you know IT developer. I thought I thought, you know, it made me think about you and the work that you're doing. You see what I'm saying? Like that happened if you're not having that type of level. And I just think when you're over 35 and you're chasing a dream and you're and you're working on your goals, your your communication, your communication has to go up a notch. True. It has to be deeper and it has to be broader. And and I think uh it also will help you help you be accountable.

SPEAKER_02 48:07

You know what I mean? Man, that's a deep point that you made. I like that the the emphasis on the communication and the type of communication at quality, like you're saying, the quality over quantity, making sure that you're actually delving deep into what you want to do and and and following through with it. That's a big thing, especially as like because our show is based on the fact of learning how to adult properly, how to properly take care of your business, handle your P's and Q's, not drop the ball on things, especially in this environment, because us as um millennials, especially like we always say for our for the hip hop millennial, we need to learn these things because I remember a Q tip saying, you know, hip hop, it can never be a way of life, right? It doesn't teach you how to raise a family or treat your wife. But we're just so influenced by hip-hop that I think some of these things, we have to learn how to turn it and make it a strength. And that grind, that hustle, that that that grit to get stuff done, we can turn, I like watching, watching our people, especially from our generation, show, show, improve in that way. And so you're a great example for that, for that actually being done and seeing that done.

SPEAKER_05 49:14

And a magician, I tell people all the time, bro, like I appreciate you. Thank you. But but I ain't a magician, man. It's not magic, it's not magic sauce. That's that's what I like to leave with people. Like, you got something you want to do, put a fucking plan together, work the fucking plan until the plan is done, and then tell everybody around you what the plan is. Like everybody gets a part of the play. You know, a lot of people are fans of Nipsey Hustle, but they're not really studying the Nipsey's moves. Yeah. Like everybody was a part of the plays. It wasn't no secret. Everybody a part of the play. My daddy a part of the play. My mama a part of the play, my lady a part of the play. You know what I'm saying? You see, you go in the marathon store, you would see that nigga daddy in there working. That's the thing. Everybody is a part of the play. You understand? Like, you, you know, like that, that's the part. And and to be real with you, Kev, particularly when you're of our age, that's the part that's difficult for a lot of people because they haven't been, they haven't been real with themselves yet.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

That's true.

SPEAKER_05 50:08

So, how am I gonna be real with my mom and my dad and my man and my kids when I ain't been real with myself? And and it's you're gonna have a hard way. You know, you're gonna have a hard way financially, you're gonna have a hard way with the emotional health of your family, you're gonna have a hard way with the emotional health of yourself. If you're not, if you're not being absolutely honest and communicating effectively when it comes to what it is you want to do and where you want to go and putting together those fucking directions. So people not getting in the car hoping and dreaming that you know where you're going. So people at least go, well, you know, he got the direction, so you know, I know he knows where he's going. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 50:45

Man, that's true. That's true. Yeah, you gotta have direction. And I th you gotta have direction because, like you said, in a lot of ways, direction kind of leads into your purpose too. And people don't necessarily want to, especially when you get to a certain age, like you don't, you kind of try to stay away from people who aren't purposeful in a sense. And that's just kind of like a natural inclination for anybody, especially if you have children or you have people that depend on you. They want to be around people that have purpose. Whole facts.

SPEAKER_05 51:14

Without a without a doubt. That's the other thing I tell, you know, people, particularly when you're dream chasing or you know, at this age, you have to have a thing. You know, so we we say purpose. I'll refer to it as a thing. Like, what is your thing? Like, what area are you focused on changing? Like it can't just be healthcare. You know, healthcare is too broad. Like, what is it in healthcare that you're doing? You know, are you a biophysicist? Are you, you know, a nuclear medicinist? Like, what are you actually like you get is recycling your thing? Is you know, my thing is African American, really stories of the African diaspora, particularly that come from the American South, and shining a light and provide opportunities for people that fall under that umbrella. That's my thing. You know what I mean? And and and it's very difficult to put together a plan for your vision or business or whatever it is you want to do, and you ain't figured out what the fuck your thing was. Like, you know, you that that purpose part, Kev, like purpose, purpose, even no purpose with the plan is no damn plan. Because you gotta have a purpose for that plan. You can't just be like, I'm just going to McDonald's. Nigga, what you going to McDonald's for? Well, I just, you know, I don't know. And then you're standing at the counter, but you know, I hate when people do that shit. I hate that when you get live. It's like, come on, man. You know what I mean? I don't want to be in the store for four hours. Exactly. I came here to get some white t-shirts.

SPEAKER_04 52:48

Let's get the t shirt.

SPEAKER_05 52:50

I mean, if you get some extra on the way, I'm cool with that. But I don't want to be walking, my feet hurt. I don't want to sit down. You know what I mean? We don't even know why we're here. Like, that's Agaban.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

Speaking of, speaking of purpose and your purpose for your building, for your build building the enterprise that you're currently in, we have to jump onto this uh topic and actually leads right into it. I know you're you're working on a big project, um, currently a documentary called Saltwater. Yeah. And of course, we pulled a description from your website. We had to go check it out. And of course, Saltwater. Um, this is how it reads Saltwater Chronicles sister and brother, Sarah McCaba and Simeon Days, children of Ron and Natalie Days from the popular 1990s, Nickelodeon TV show Golagola Island, as they redefine the Golageechee identity that they inherited. A tangled fusion of tourist novelty and television images that has historically sourcized and marginalized the totality of their culture. They embark on a global journey from South Carolina to Sierra Leone to explore the complexities of redefining a narrative and how the making of music can modernize a culture. Damn, man. Don't it sound good? It's totally sick. I've been up here looking at it and listening through the different videos and media content that you have on there. And interesting enough, I went to school with uh Miss Sarah Days, and even my fiance actually um interviewed her mother. Um, so like, and of course we grew up watching Golagala Island. So when I saw that, I was already hooked. I'm already, because I'm invested in those people. And so growing up, yeah, man. We went to school, College Charleston, and being around the Golagitchi folk, um, having family members down there as well. I'm already like, yo, I can't wait to see this. So I know you had to say, okay, this needs to be a documentary and et cetera. But give us a little background on that story that you are creating with them, the work that you're putting into it, and even a little bit of your travels to make sure that things went along, went along the way they're supposed to go. So I'm gonna try to keep this as simple as possible because that's a lot.

SPEAKER_05 54:53

You asked me I'm trying to keep it simple. So so I can tell you the idea came about. I was at a cocktail party, actually, ironically enough. And I was talking to a buddy of mine, and he was like, he, you know, he knew me from Love Piece of Hip Hop. And he was like, What do you know about the Gulagie on the Coast? And I was telling him, I know a good bit, but not not too much. And uh he was like, you know, I know I know you're in the music. Have you ever thought about like what what what what what they're doing as far as musically? Like, is there like gulla geechee hip-hop? And I knew rappers that were gulla geechy that rapped, but that's not what he was talking about. What he what he was talking about was, you know, you know, some kind of new form of music that's like their own thing. And I was like, shit, you know, I don't, you know, I don't I don't know if that's a thing or not. And so I started exploring, I'm just you know, because I was cool with people like Pacino Dino and and a lot of people from from that area, you know, from that era when it comes to hip hop, anyways, that identifies Gulagie rap. And one of the things I realized was there wasn't there wasn't a music that was specifically Gulagie that was modern. True. You know, Gulla Geechee, if you're talking about Gulla Geechee Sea Island music, you're really talking about spirituals, you know, Negos.

SPEAKER_02 56:08

Nego spirituals, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 56:09

And so, and I was like, yeah, but if you're 25, you're not riding around listening to Nego spirituals in the whip, you know, you know what I mean? And so I was like, damn, like, you know, hip-hop did it, you know what I mean? As an African diaspora that, you know, we created our own form of modern music. It was called hip-hop. You know, back in the day, they created something called jazz. You know, in on the island in the island of Jamaica, they created reggae, and then the young people took that and made dance hall. You know, in Puerto Rico, they made reggae tom, you know, you know, in the early 90s in West Africa, had a cat named DuBonge that created the sound called Afrobeat, which is how no people know whiz kid and Davito and Burnaboy and all that today. And so in the UK, they had grime music. So I was like, you know, New Orleans has bounce. Shit, what does Gulla Geechee have? That's how the idea first came about. So I wrote like this little synopsis. It took me a while. It took me a couple months to put together a synopsis that I thought was decent. And I sent it to Ron, because Ron was consulting with me on another Gulla Geechee film I was working on called The Gullah Project at the time. And hired Ron, I brought Ron onto that project, and when I had this idea, I shot it to Ron. And Ron was like, yo, this is the type of thing my son's usually talking about. You should talk to my son about this idea. So I said, cool, well, send it to him, let me know what he thinks. Yo, Simeon's first response was hell yeah. His email was like, yo, and here's what I think the title should be salt water. And I was like, Oh, shit. Because I had it stupid ass. It was like Gulla Geechee Roots music. I didn't know what I mean. And uh so he put it on and I was like, yo, I said, yo, I we might have something. And then he ran the idea by Sarah. I I didn't know how close him and Sarah was at the time. And uh he ran the idea by Sarah, and Sarah was like, yo, this, you know, you you all are really talking about Afrofuturism and Gulla Geechee Afrofuturism. There's so many people down here that's doing that. Like we should tell that story with the story about this, can we create this music? And so that's how it all, that's how it all came together. And uh I brought Sarah Simeon on as executive producers, even though they don't know anything about the the film world in that way, particularly the documentary feature film world. But because in order for me to get access to the people we're gonna need access to is to really tell a story and to make sure that I'm treating the story with respect, make sure that you know it's authentic to make sure that you know we're we're you know, because this is about identity and it's about a modern form of identity. Because when people think about or talk about Gulagie, they love talking about the past. They love talking about and the past is dope, you know. Yes, they're one of the only, if not the only African American community that still have traces of Africa in their culture. Like, you know, and they're recognized nationally. And recognized nationally, they have their own language, like you know, it's the the things that African Americans dream about. Like I never talked about Africa. I ain't got no connections to Africa, you know what I mean? But you go to these people's houses and you see you see food ways and practices and even songs that they still singing in West Africa to this day. It's it's amazing, you know, and yes, all that's cool, but what are they doing right now? You know, it's still alive. They're still alive, they fucking sleeping in and making babies and going to the club. Like, why are we acting like they existed a hundred years ago? Yeah, and so our film is about what's happening now and how uh what are young people doing to prepare for the future of what Gulagichi looks like? How are they identifying now? How are they reclaiming their identity separate from a colonized identity? And then on top of that, can we take that identity and create a soundtrack for it? You know, and so that's what our film is about. And so, you know, I want to give a shout out to the Southern Documentary Fund for believing in us so much to not only give us money, but also become our fiscal sponsor so we're able to qualify as a nonprofit, which allows us to raise funding through a lot of the grants that we've gotten through the South Carolina Humanities Council, the South Carolina Arts Commission, the Puffin Foundation. Man, it's it's several. And so, you know, this is gonna be it's a it's a feature-lift film, so it's gonna be a long road, you know. We still we we we're in production now. The COVID slowed down our production a whole lot. Understandable. It's very difficult to film it because you know, this film is very what they call cinema verite. You know, it's not necessarily just a bunch of people sitting down and giving interviews. You know, we're in these spaces and filming these things happen. You know, I really want this film to be more like a fly on the wall kind of experience. And and then we got this process of trying to make this music, which we're still identifying musicians, you know, that we feel should be a part of or want to be a part of this journey with us. And so, you know, we still got a long way to go, man. You know, we we we're this probably won't see, I think on our website it says 2022. This probably won't see the light of day until 2023, you know. Um, but um, but it's a labor of love and one that's needed and one that I think is gonna be a blueprint. I think if we do this film right, this could be a blueprint for a lot of marginalized communities around the world. Because there's a lot of communities around the world like the Gulla Geechee that are trying to do the same thing. Like, how do we how do we create a new identity for ourselves that's modern, contemporary, and hip, and that's alive and future and looking into the future, you know? Because, you know, that's how we we do Native Americans the same way. It's so many, it's so many people that we do the same.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:20

Like, what's the model music?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:23

Yeah, we hold it, we keep it as a novelty. You know what I mean? We keep it, oh come out, why don't you come out and do one of them, hey y'all, hey y'all, and then go away. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:32

You ain't lying.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:33

That shit is whack. Yeah, it is a people, you know what I mean? We gotta let we gotta let their culture breathe, and that's what this film is about. Not trapping the culture inside whatever you think it should be, seagrass baskets and crab shit, you know, crab cracks, like that's cool, but that's marginalizing and and you know, let it be free. What does it look like if if it has wings and flies? That's what we want. That's what we want to see. So that's what the film is about.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:58

Man, okay, and that leads into another another thing that we like to ask folk who are creators, especially ones who are creating any media or or stories or moving stories, controlling the narrative. And that's what you're talking about right now. Like the importance of doing that and through doing it through storytelling from a cultural perspective. Could you speak on that some?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:17

It's the key. Controlling the narrative is the key to changing uh controlling the narrative is just the key. The reason why it's the key is because the narrative has been uncontrolled for so long. Or rather, I should say, and and and no, I I said it right. The narrative has been uncontrolled for so long. And I say uncontrolled because whoever was controlling it didn't know what they was doing with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:45

That's a good point.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:46

So, so it was uh they were uncon it was uncontrolled. Like, if we're gonna tell our stories right, particularly for marginalized communities around the world, I mean those of African, the African diaspora, the Asian diaspora, the Latino, Latinx diaspora, the Pacific Island diaspora, it's all the same. Like, we have to take control of the narratives to tell the stories from our points of view because it has not been done on a wide enough scale. Everything is still measured by the white European eye. Everything is still funneled through the white European way of thought. Everything from the way we design neighborhoods to, you know, to the foods that we eat, to what restaurants we deem, what cuisines we deem to be great, what languages we deem to be great. It's all funneled through this, you know, this white person's way of saying, oh, we well, we said that's great. Well, what about our shit? You know, it's funny to me. I remember me and B was watching Crazy Rich Agents and we were tripping because the movie was so we we thought the movie was great, but you had this family at the center of the movie whose culture was thousands of years old, who had been, you know, one of the leading families in China for thousands of years. And all these motherfuckers was talking about was Versace and Balenciaga, and I was like, y'all, y'all family older than all of those brands. Yeah. How in the world are y'all going after Versace and Gucci?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:08

Down down to Versace.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:10

Gucci ain't even a hundred years old. Like, what was what's happening? Like, it was confusing to us. You know, it was just like, damn, like, this y'all family been a dynasty for thousands of years, and you giving process something that's been around for a blink of an eye, you know, America just got here. America just what? 150, 20 years, 20, 50 years old, mm-hmm. You know how old Egypt, you know how old Congo is? You know how old the kingdom of Dahomey is?

unknown 1:04:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:41

You understand? Like, bro, like, come on, bro.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:44

Like, why don't you think those cultures get the respect, like, when it comes to these things?

SPEAKER_05 1:04:50

Because again, you know, we've this is how I look at it. We've been under European rule for 500 years. So, because we've been under European rule, everything has kind of been dictated by the European, what we consider first world countries. Right? That's they have set the standard for everything from business to industry to design to clothes to this is how we should do schooling, these languages are the best, this is where you should go vacation, this is what a vacation home should look like. Like, all of that's come from their through their lens. And and that's why we see things that way, and that's why it hasn't been respected. Because, you know, think about us. Like, how the only reason I respect bluegrass music is because I had a chance to work at WUSC when I was at USC, work at Manifest, and have these people teach me about bluegrass. Otherwise, I would not give a fuck about bluegrass. You understand what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:47

Unless you're both in the culture, yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:50

So why would I expect somebody that thinks Shakespeare is great to think Nagi Wachiango is great? Why would I? He won't even know who that is. He don't even care. You know, why why would I why would I expect someone that is wants to tell me about Napoleon to teach me about the kingdom of the homie? Like, how would he even know? He don't care about Tim Buck too. You know, outside of it being like a footnote and a little cool little picture with a with a black kid with a, you know, you know, trying to make us look primitive. Yeah, man. Like I'm like, yo, these are libraries here, man. It's so weird to me. But you know, but at the same time, I understand it because, you know, I understand the humanity in it because, you know, it's a lot of it's a lot of things that not not only am I not proximate to, but because I'm not privy to that information and I don't have the knowledge about that culture, I don't have a lot of respect for that culture. And so the only way we start creating that the the the opportunities for people to be proximate to our cultures is for us to control the narratives and let people have these experiences with us. You know, because how many times have you seen a movie or experienced a story or read a book that has a that features a culture that's not yours and identify with it?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:58

That's a good point. So many times. That's a good point.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:00

Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, it can be imaginary or not.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:03

Like Game of Thrones, I don't I don't understand nothing about Game of Thrones.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:07

You know, like but there's been there's been there's been books and things that I read where I'm like, yo, I can I can really relate to that. Even though I I don't speak that language, you know, I might not speak Korean or I might not speak, you know, I might not speak Lingala, but I I hear these stories and I go, wow, I can relate to that. I that you know, I can see the humanity in them and the humanity in me. And now I have a new respect for that culture. That can only happen when the culture is able to speak for itself, as opposed to someone else speaking for it. It's just like hip hop, bro. It's just like hip hop, Kev. It's just like hip hop. Like I can't stand when fake when people be fake hip hoping. You know what I mean? Yeah. Hey, those commercials make it so cringy. You know what I mean? It's like, oh man, that's not what we wouldn't say it like that, you know? That's not, you know, what are you doing? That's not even a good hip-hop beat. Like, go find a real producer. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:57

Like exactly.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:58

You know, you like you, but but it's because they don't know nothing about the culture, and they just trying to, like, you know, it's like you're making a mockery out of it instead of letting somebody from the culture teeth tell you how it's supposed to go. And that's how we should treat narratives, I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:11

Understood, man. That's man, that's that's an excellent point. And I'll I'll even build on it too, especially, and I'm gonna get your ideas on this. I know with southern storytelling in general, it's interesting because you know, southern storytelling is very unique from other parts of our country because it's such a mix between the black and the the black and the dominant white culture, but it's it's a very shared experience. So, in you in your opinion, do you think, just as a storyteller, being from the South, do you think that there's a better way to tell some of these southern stories that will appeal appeal to both sides and then also tell the stories more properly? And I know you're dealing with with salt water, you're gonna see a lot of that, and you're gonna have to deal a lot of uh with a lot of those those back and forths that that balance of power.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:58

You know, I I think the best way to tell stories regardless of where you're telling them from is to tell them authentically. You know, I think I think part of the problem is we keep trying to put boundaries on, well, you know, that that is a little bit sensitive, or you know, maybe people not ready to understand that yet, or you know, let's water this sentence down. Like, I don't think you should do that. I think the more authentic the stories are, you know, like look at Parasite. I love Parasite. You know, that movie is amazing, and I don't know nothing about that culture. I don't know nothing about that lifestyle, nothing. But because they told it in such a way that's authentic to that culture and that type of story and those people that live that way, because that's a real thing that people do, you know, they have these maids, and these rich people have these people that live in, you know, in these spaces underneath their homes and all this crazy shit. But um, I mean but it's crazy to us, you know. Yeah, exactly. But but but the whole point of it is, you know, the nuances can only come from someone who's lived it. You know, I was telling a friend of mine the other day, it's just like if you met somebody that's a Harry Potter fan and you a Harry Potter fan, if they're not a real Harry Potter fan, it's gonna be revealed in the conversation. You're gonna be able to pick up on little things and be like, no, he ain't read the books, he just seen the movies. Like, you know what I mean? Exactly. You're gonna know authenticity.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:13

It's new. Authenticity. That's and that's and and in building on that authenticity idea, you you can also break into like meet what's called meaningful social engagement. Because when you're authentic, and especially dealing with storytelling, you're gonna be looking for meaningful social engagement in what you do and what you produce, correct? Hey man, word.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:36

That's a hundred percent correct. 100% correct, 100% correct. I couldn't have said it better.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:42

Man, shoot, man. I just want oh, oh, and then I know another question that I have for you, because I know we're we ran up on that time, and I'm not gonna try to hold you um much longer than you can cut whatever you need to cut out of this. I don't care. We're gonna keep it all. We're gonna keep all this out. You don't realize we we had a uh we had one episode, we didn't expect to go this long. We went for two hours. So yeah, we'll keep it because I mean we the content, we like how honest the content is, especially dealing with the folk that we've been talking with because we know most of these people personally, and the information that you're given is vital, especially for the community that we're dealing with. They need to hear these things, you know, and they need to hear it in a raw, uncut way. But man, ain't no problem, man. What current and future projects are you working on besides saltwater that you'd like people to hear and know about? I know I'm gonna point out one that I thought was very that's amazing. I was on your website, man, looking at the South Carolina Center for Fathers and Families, the little piece of work that you did on that. That's an excellent program, first of all. I just want to point that out.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:47

Amazing Dude, man, Ron Pyatt, his story. I have a longer version of that film because they shortened it. We did a longer version that's so much better because it has his kids in it, and uh it's a lot better than the pieces that we actually were uh commissioned to release. We got commissioned by the Fathers of South Carolina Fathers of Family to do that. Amazing story, amazing dude. Just I'm just talking about the very definition of persistence. I mean, this dude filled out over 800 app, 900 applications and didn't get a job. You know, like I don't know how many people would have stopped at 40, you know, at 10. You know what I mean? 900. But anyway, so uh several of the projects that working on I can't talk about yet because they're not uh they're not fully realized. I mean, like they're not like you know, there's been no agreement signed or anything like that. So it's really hard for me to say. But I uh or I'm doing something that's like in the in kind of in the political space. And you can't let that be known. Yeah. I can't let it be known yet. But there's some very exciting projects that I'm working on that feature some prominent historical figures in South Carolina that are African American that I can't really talk about yet, but that that's kind of going in the other direction. I I try not to go older, you know. If you look at a lot of my work, particularly like the Justice 360, so a lot of that stuff is very modern, contemporaries now. You know, I try not to go back because that's really what I like to focus on is the now and the future. But this this particular piece I was I was commissioned to do that we're working on now, it's in development now. I'm excited about it, but it is kind of uh it's more of a historical thing. I just I can't too say too much about that, other than what I already said. And other than that, what am I I'm very excited about? Salt water, of course, excited about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:31

What is it called? The the the Green Book of South Carolina. Could you explain a little bit what that is? Sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:39

That's more on our media strategy side. The Socana Parks and Recreation partnered with Flock and Rally, and they came to us because they were trying to build this app, and of course, you know they need some black folk to tell them how to do it. You know what I mean? But I was so happy to work with Flock and Rally. I love Debbie and Tracy. I love Kate Maloney who did a lot of the design that you see with that. And it was just an opportunity for Parks and Rec under the leadership at that time of Don Dawson House, who who actually has taken on a new position with this organization called We Goja, W-E-G-O-J-A. Yeah, it's really dope. But Dawn Dawson House, I gotta give a shout out to her, her and Janie Harriet over at South Carolina African American Historic Council or History. Oh, she's gonna kick me. S-A-S-C-H-A-A-C is the name of the organization. And uh, and what they did was they was like, you know, in the spirit of the green book, let's create a travel guide for African American sites in the state. And so we were a part of that project pretty much, oh man, like uh every step of the way from developing the robot to developing design, developing the color scheme, the language, the fonts. Like, you know, we were very heavily involved in that project because it had to feel right, you know. Yeah. It had to feel modern, you know, it had to feel like it had to be easy to navigate. Shout out to period three. They did all the the they did all the skin work on that project. Dope got Gene and Jay over there. And so that was a really, really dope. I'm very proud of that project, particularly being from South Carolina, you know. Uh I love it when I'm able to do things that people from South Carolina can touch and feel. Because a lot of times I do stuff you can't touch and feel, but stuff like that, people can go, oh, I use that. You know what I mean? Oh shit, you have something to do with that. That's that's cool, you know. And and so, yeah, Green Book is dope, man. Easy to get to. You can access it on any device. You can just go, you know, put in the website. You don't have to get the app, but there is an app too. And uh, yeah, it it'll take you to any African-American historic site you want to see, and they're still adding sites to it all the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:36

That's what's happening. That's what's dope, man.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:38

Yeah, it's so uh really dope, particularly for people that are you know come from out of town or you got family reunions, y'all looking at stuff to do. You know, just go check out some black shit, you know. It's always um our our history is important, it's extremely important to this country.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:51

And so well, with that being said, I'm gonna go ahead and we're gonna wrap up today. I just want to thank our guests, man, so much for Mr. Shiraj Shakespeare for joining us today, giving us his time and energy. We appreciate you, brother. Thank y'all. You know that. And then for my co-host Skip, I'm DJ Ann What. We want to say peace and blessings, man. Thank you for listening. That's it for today's episode of the Hilltop Glove Podcast. Make sure to subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and other platforms. Also follow us on Instagram and Facebook at HilltopGlove.