SPEAKER_02 1:45

Hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Hilltop Love Podcast. I'm your host, Tamaya, as well as my friends Skip, Mike, and DJ Ann What. Today's guest, we have Casey Handy Smith. And she is from Houston, Texas, face attorney, specializing in business, entertainment, and digital media law. Her law firm, C Handy Law, is focused on protecting the rights of exploited minority talent and influencers by means of providing content contractual and legal advice. She has her own podcast called Unspoken Terms, where she talks about leading influencers, thought leaders, and content creators about the importance of protecting uh your work and your creative branding. Welcome, Ms. Casey Handy Smith. I love saying your name. It's like professional. Like last night I was just like, oh, Casey Handy Smith. Casey Handy Smith. Thank you. Well, so glad to I'm doing well. So glad to be here. It's funny because every once in a while I'll be like so over my hyphenated name, especially when I'm filling out paperwork and like doing stuff at the bank or whatever. But yeah, glad to be here. So happy to be here. Thank you for joining us. We are appreciate you for waking up this morning.

SPEAKER_03 3:02

Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

Listen, I have a two-month-old, so I've been up for hours anyway. So it's congratulations.

SPEAKER_03 3:09

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

So yeah, it is no problem at all. Oh, motherhood, how is it? Oh, it's going. It's an adjustment. This is our first one. So definitely an adjustment. Thank you. Thank you very much. But it's been great so far. I've been enjoying it. Just recently started back um working. So yeah, it's been it's been interesting, you know, balancing work and motherhood and being a wife and all those good things. But it's been good. It's been good. I have a lot of help and support. So I'm grateful for that. And it takes a village. So I'm glad that you do have that. Yeah, for sure, for sure. I don't take it for granted. So, Casey, tell people the people a little bit about yourself. You know, what do you do and how do you do it? And especially how do you do it? And an attorney. That seems like a lot of work. But yeah, just give us a rundown of, you know, your business, your law firm, and everything about that. Yeah, sure. So I mean, you really sum things up with the bio, but like you said, um I'm an attorney, I'm a contract lawyer. So my firm, we specialize in contract negotiations, drafting custom contracts, and we also provide contract templates for creatives because we like to have kind of those avenues for folks who are entrepreneurs and creatives who are just starting out and may not be at a point yet where they can afford to actually hire our firm to handle contracts for them and draft for them. So we provide contract templates at an affordable rate, you know, for again for entrepreneurs and newer creatives. And yeah, so we specialize in contracts. That's what we do. We primarily work with social media influencers, recording artists. That's really the kind of primary visual artists. Do you guys work with them also? A little bit. A little bit. We don't do a whole lot with visual artists. We work a lot with online businesses. Because I got into that space several years ago. Um but yeah, so we work with a lot of like bloggers, online businesses, you know, social media influencers, and like I said, recording artists, mainly because of my background. Oh, music background. Okay, cool. Okay, that makes so much more sense now. Yeah. As you know, in the United States, the term lawyer and attorney are used often interchangeably, although both terms refer to someone educated in the law. Can you please break down the difference between a lawyer and an attorney? Because I was like, I want to, I looked up the definition, but I'm like, some people might not understand that still. So Yeah. I mean, so there's like that can be in it can be a little dicey because I feel like there's like different definitions that kind of go around. But typically how I think of it and how most legal professionals think of it is a lawyer is someone who went to law school, graduated law school, but doesn't necessarily have a a law license. So they may not have like yet passed the bar exam. Um, or maybe they're not planning to even take the bar exam. So they're not planning to practice, you know, like in court, whereas an attorney, you know, is licensed, you know, at a state bar and can practice in court. So that's typically the distinction that I that I roll with.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

That's a big distinction.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Yeah. Yeah. I passed the bar exam. And I'm like, okay, so what does that make you? You know, like, can you practice or not? Should I call you or not? Yeah, I mean, no, it is a distinction because when you're when you're an attorney and you've like passed a bar exam and you're licensed to the state bar, there's much higher standards that you that you're held to when it comes to practicing law since you actually, you know, can practice. So so yeah, there's definitely a distinction there. Like lawyer, like if you know if you haven't, you know, taken the bar or past the bar yet, you definitely have a lot of the same knowledge, you know, that an attorney has. It's just, you know, you don't have that that licensing that an attorney has. Cool, cool. So at what age did you actually decide to practice law? That's a good question. I wow, uh, the moment that I mainly think about was I think I was a junior in high school, or maybe I was either a junior or a senior in high school. I was at home one day with my dad. He was like newly retired at the time from the federal government. And so I had always heard about and known about some sort of legal stuff because of the work that he did. So that so it always kind of interested um me just from his work. But I remember being home with him one day and we were watching the news because my dad is like, you know, that generation of like all they do for real is watching news, right? Like yeah, like all day, every day. So we're watching, so CNN is just like all in the background, and what it ends up coming on was like Congress was like voting to like renew like the Voting Rights Act. And I was like, as a teenager, you know, I'm like, what do you mean they have to like renew it? Like, what are you like what are you talking about? Like black people have the right to vote, like what's what's the problem? And so I was not familiar with that. I didn't realize that that was something that that even in what year is that 2007, 2006, 2007, that as a black person in this country, like my right to vote could be taken away if Congress decides that this year they don't want to, you know, renew this particular law. And so, oh, and don't quote me on the particulars of this. I'm not a civil rights attorney. You know, and at that time I had really done a lot of research and dove into it because I was just like super disbelief. But just kind of thinking back on it, like I know like that was a moment where I was like, wait, like what do you mean? Like, you know, so I just I really felt a way about that. And so I talked to my dad, and you know, we talked about it for a little while, and he was like, Well, you know, I know some different attorneys, you know, through my line of work. And so he ended up helping me get into a program called Swell, which is a program for black students in Cincinnati area. So I grew up in Cincinnati, so I'm not from Houston. I've been in Houston, I lived in Houston for like uh for the last like I've been for like 10, 11 years at this point. But I actually grew up in Cincinnati, Ohio. And so Cincinnati's Black Bar Association, they formed this program organization for students for you know, black students who are interested in going into law. So every single summer of college, yeah, it was a really cool program. So every single summer I was partnered at different legal experiences just to kind of learn about the law. So it was really cool because you know, I I got to work like in-house at General Electric one summer. I worked at a big law firm one summer, I worked for a federal judge another summer. So it was just a really, yeah, so it was a it was an awesome experience to be able to really um dive in and kind of get a better understanding of what practicing law being an attorney is and what kind of stuff I really did like and what I didn't like too. So I definitely learned quickly what stuff I was not too interested in. Um, what areas of the law were you not interested in? Yeah. So criminal, criminal for me. Um, yeah, no, like when working for that federal judge, like there's it's an interesting feeling to be in a courtroom and see that the only other people that look like you are in chains. And so for me, it was just like, you know, I can definitely understand why, you know, a lot, a lot of black attorneys would flock to that in terms of being able to help um the black community. But for me, I was just like, this is heavy, this is hella heavy. Like, I can't do this every day. Like, yeah, I'm like, I can't, I'm like, I wouldn't be able to do this like every day. So, yeah, so for me, criminal was like, yeah, yeah, I it was an open. That definitely would be hard too, you know, and you have to keep like a level ground. Like you can't be biased on one side, like that's really hard. Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

And you carry that case with you too every day as you're working it. Like, I couldn't do that either. I I was I had uh an inkling to want to go into uh the law profession as well, but it was gonna be strictly for intellectual property because I didn't want to have to deal with criminal issues or anything like that. That just that that's just too much for me. But uh, I guess shifting shifting gears, of course, we do research on all of our guests. We try to figure out uh who you are, where you're coming from, and et cetera. And of course, we found out that you come from a family of musically inclined people. And that really piques our interest because we love our music, especially here on the Hilltop Glove podcast. And I just have to ask, like, what was the experience like in shaping your career growing up in that type of family?

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Yeah, so like growing up, I was like really heavy into music. Like for a long time, I really thought that I was going to do something professionally in music. So I was really into so I grew up playing like classical pianos. I was trained as a classical pianist. Yeah, I used to do like regional competitions, all that kind of stuff. And so I was really big into like music theory and I loved so and I took like music theory courses and stuff in high school, and I loved scoring. And so for a long time I thought I wanted to get into like, you know, music scoring for like movies and things like that. And so, you know, so of course, having a family that was like into music, everyone, you know, plays some sort of instrument, you know, of course, you know, just growing up around those influences where you know, you pretty much go to school, come home, you practice, and you know, that's that's life, right? Yeah, exactly. Um, it was you know, so mm-hmm, yeah, and so it was very, you know, so it obviously was like a supportive, I guess, space in terms of like, oh, if you want to do something um in music, that makes sense. But once I got to, I would say once I got to college, yeah, once I got to college, and well, even before college. So of course in high school, you know, I had that experience where I was like, you know what, I think you know, I might want to do law. Once I got into college and I learned that our university had a music business program, it was like, to me, it was like the perfect marriage, the perfect merge of like, because as much as I love music and like performing and playing music, I always, always had this inkling towards like business and having a business mind. And so for me, it was like, okay, I think this would be the perfect space for me to be able to still be around creatives, still, you know, have a bit of that, you know, in my day-to-day life, but also be able to like really work on the business side because I always had that ability to kind of understand business type concepts, I guess, that a lot of creatives don't necessarily don't understand, but they don't necessarily care about, you know. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Yeah, there's no passion. There's no passion.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Exactly, exactly. Finding cracks and the holes, and like, don't forget about this part and what other things happens. You gotta use this. Okay, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

That is extra dope, man. Like, uh, what was one of your like your fondest memories of growing up in that in that household?

SPEAKER_02 14:21

One of my fondest memories would probably be so Thanksgiving. So Thanksgiving is um a big holiday in our family because it's linked to our college homecoming. So I went to Alabama State University, which is HBCU in uh Montgomery. Yeah, and so and most of my family went to ASU. So all of my family is actually from Alabama. Yes, so most of my friend family's actually from Alabama. We just moved around a lot because of my dad's job. Like I said, he was federal government. So Cincinnati, we didn't leave, we had like one cousin up there, but like we're our all of my roots are in Alabama, and so when we travel home for different holidays, you know, we go to Alabama, and Thanksgiving was always a big one for us because for years they had the Turkey Day classic, which was Alabama State versus Tuskegee.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

And so with my family, yeah, you think it comes on TV. Come on, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

And I don't know if y'all be in the Carolinas, you know, might be more familiar than some people. But yeah, so like so a lot of my family, you know, going to Alabama State. My mom went to Tuskegee. We have a lot of Tuskegee people. So it was like this big rivalry. So like every year, you know, we'd go home for Thanksgiving, you know, it's homecomings, parades, and football games. But then after all that stuff during the day, we would go back to my grandparents' house, you know, have turkey, cakes, all the good Thanksgiving food. And then everybody would get around the piano. And because everyone plays, it would be like almost like a recital, right? It was be like, okay, what's y'all, what have you been working on since the last time we saw you? So everybody would sit down, you know, play a piece, whatever, and then and then, you know, as the night goes on, pretty much it's turned to a jam session of just you know, us playing and singing, you know, different stuff.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Sometimes my granddaddy might take his acts out, just you know, yeah. Okay, my fault. I thought you meant like the guitar. Okay, saxophone.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Yeah, does anybody did anybody ever record this?

SPEAKER_02 16:14

You know, that's a great question. Yeah, there may be some footage on like somebody's old flip phone, but like I don't I don't know, but yeah, that's probably like my fondest memory. It's just like coming together as a family, like after all the homecoming stuff for Thanksgiving, and like just yeah, enjoying music.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Man, all right, I like that. That's so cool, man. I mean, yeah, we're we're extreme music lovers and we love hearing stories like that, especially like uh with creatives, being able to be around your family and and get that vibe going so you can like exchange good energy. I know that's super dope. Super dope.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Yeah, that's a wild. That's a lot of arguing.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

But uh tis true, tis true. But moving on, I know we were talking about being creative, and that's a big part of I know all of our backgrounds here on this show, but creative entrepreneurs, man, they are uh sometimes they they think that just being talented is good enough to help them out in the world of business. And we know that's naivety and it's not how it really works. And it's very important for us to understand that legal protection is vital. And could you explain that to our audience a little bit, the importance of that? Because I know a lot of our audience, a lot of them are gonna be, I know they are creatives, they work in various different mediums, but you know, they really wanna they wanna they there is a need for them to protect their intellectual property in order for them to even be successful. Could you explain a little bit of that to our audience why that's so important?

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Yeah. Um so it's one of those things where if you're not protecting the thing that you create, you really can't ever leverage it to make money off of it the way that you want to. And I think a lot of people don't fully realize that because when you don't protect yourself, you leave yourself open to you know other people potentially taking taking claim in the stuff that you've created, or just not having the thing set up properly on the back end for you. Again, you just can't, you you can't capitalize off of it. So it's a mixture of like understanding how to protect your intellectual property and how to protect your creative stuff, and understanding that you need to put those pieces together from the very beginning. So, of course, as an attorney, you know, I always talk about you know, making sure you're copywriting stuff, your trademarking stuff, making sure you have good contracts in place that clearly outline different various ownership rights. Because I think that's a huge thing with creatives, right? Like we get into, like you said, these vibes and these creative spaces, and we're all doing these things together, and you know, it's it's dope and all these things, but then when you know it's all said and done, no one took the time to sit down and do, say, a songwriter split sheet to say, okay, this person owns this percentage and that percentage. And so now the song, you know, say it gets out there and it gets popular, and everybody's like, Well, where's the money? Right? Like, how does this work? And so you want to make sure that you're clearly outlining those things from the beginning and then also just like logistically setting stuff up so that you can get paid. Because with the way that, you know, intellectual property in the internet now just makes it so much easier to get stuff out there, but in a sense, it can make things a little bit harder or more confusing in terms of how you get paid as well. So you want to make sure that you are clear on the different avenues for how you get paid as a creative so that you're registering with the proper entities and all that stuff, so that you know your things can be tracked and you actually can make money um off of it. So I've kind of as like as I'm talking, I kind of forgot your original question, but hopefully that answered. No, no, you're right online.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

You're right online, you're explaining why because we we want to know because all right, getting even into I like the the last point you were just on. How do you track your property? Like, can you explain like what kind of legal tools exist that help you to track your property so that you can receive payment or receive some kind of uh income from them?

SPEAKER_02 20:35

Yeah, so I mean it's gonna of course depend upon the type of creative you are. So there's different resources and tools for various industries. I'll speak to music because that's what I'm most familiar with and where you know I practice. But so for musicians or songwriters, so so we'll just use for example purposes, we'll say songwriters. So say you're a songwriter, you want to make sure that you're registered with a PRO, which is a performing rights organization. You know, it's BMI, CSEC, ASCAP are the main ones. And so you want to make sure that you're registered with one of them so that you can get your performance world so that they can be tracking those things for you. You want to make sure that you're also registered at places like Sound Exchange. So there's a variety, so those are just kind of a couple of examples of places that you need to be registered at if you're in the music space to make sure that it your royalties are actually being tracked, which is again why it's so and sound exchange is a big one because they track like digital performance royalties. And so if you're working again with other songwriters or other performers, other artists, so you know, especially like in the hip-hop space, so I work with you know, primarily like hip-hop artists, and of course, in in rap and hip-hop, like collaborations are huge, right? And so, yeah, you're working with multiple producers, multiple artists, like everybody wants to get a verse or whatever, which is cool, but you want to make sure that again, that stuff is clearly outlined in terms of who owns what, and making sure that that stuff is properly registered with places like Sound Exchange, so that again, once a song starts getting distributed, you know, in any form or fashion, like it doesn't even have to be that you're with some major lamb or something like that. But if it's just being distributed, you know, on the internet, whatever, like you want to make sure those questions, right? Exactly. Yep, you want to make sure that those things are being tracked again so you so you can get paid. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

At the end of the day, it's about the business.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

Answered the last question. You really did. Like when I was we were going to jump into uh the exploitation of black creators, particularly in music and art industry, about them not owning the rights of their their work and dying without their rights. So yeah, you answered that right on a D. But what can learn from the past about that, you know, as far as going forward, what do you think we should know that every artist should know, not just songwriters? Yeah, I mean, I think every artist should know how valuable the things they create are. And because those things are valuable, you have to go into it from the beginning like it's really worth something.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

I think a lot of creatives, you know, we because because I say this all the time, because black people are so talented, right? Because as a as a whole, we're like a we're just a lit group of people, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:27

And so because we or trash is treasure.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

It's basically like facts, right? And so because we are like so talented, I think a lot of times we can take for granted like how valuable the things that come very natural for us really are. And so I think from so you know, generally understanding that. Okay, the things that you do, the things that you create are unique to you and they are valuable. And there are people out here who are more than happy to capitalize off of it if you are not going to do so. And so you want to make sure you understand that and then also take some responsibility too. So I think one of the biggest problems you see a lot of creatives, especially those who get linked up with like these bigger companies or again, speaking from the music side, you know, get picked up by a big label. They tend to, it's kind of like a feeling of like relief almost. They're like, okay, now I have this big company who's gonna handle the business stuff for me. So I don't have to worry about it. I can just, you know, make music and and not worry about this stuff. But you have to, you gotta take responsibility of your stuff yourself to at least have a working understanding of how everything works.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

You can't just be ignorant.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

Yeah, you can't just be ignorant and making sure that you're listening to the people around you who are trying to help you. Because Lord, like I, you know, I won't put you can't not put anybody on blast, but I can't tell you how to listen. I can't like I can't tell you like how many times like I'll be working on stuff for clients and you know, I'm trying to explain to them like what the various deals are, and they're like, okay, but like they don't like don't care at all, just like where do I sign? Like, like no interest whatsoever. So you have to like I literally had clients say to me, like, case you know I don't care about you know I don't care about what they say, just where do I need to sign this? Like, you know, okay, okay. You feel, you know, knowing that they need to be concerned about this, but they're not. I mean, well, I would say for me personally, I know they don't I will say I don't feel like they have to be concerned about it because I know the type of person I am outside of being a lawyer. You know what I mean? Like, I know that I do extreme due diligence, plus I have integrity. So like I'm not gonna be out here just doing, you know, exactly. I'm not gonna be putting my clients in crazy situations. And so, you know, but everybody's not like that. And so you have to, as a creative, you have to take it upon yourself to make sure, again, that you have a working understanding and that, you know, you do have people in your corner who who who care about you to some extent to make sure that you're that you're gonna be good. So very true, very true. Well, as you know, a lot of creatives desire legal protection when establishing their business, but due to the factors, such as limited resources or access to legal expertise, fail. So, what advice would you give to anyone with limited resources about protecting their intellectual property? The internet, the internet because I like really and truly, like nowadays, you really don't have an excuse to like have no idea what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Tell it because tell it. No excuse.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

Really, because there are a lot of really good resources out there. Now, I will say, you know, you want to make sure that you're going to the right resources because of course there's all kind of information out there. But so, say for intellectual property, in particular, copyright.gov, right, where you go to register copyrights, they have tons of information, tons of resources to help you in understanding things and help you in registering your copyrights too. So, you know, if you do your due diligence, you can you can learn quite a bit and take matters into your own hands if you're at a point where you can't, you know, afford legal. Same with trademarks, you know, if you're wanting to protect, you know, your business name or logo or you know, something something tied to your branding, the trademark office uspo.gov is where you go for trademarks, and they have a ton of resources. They have videos, they have all kinds of stuff to help you understand the trademark process and you know register things yourself if that's the route you have to go. So there's a lot of resources out there. Of course, like I said, making sure you're you're going to trusted resources, but for IP, those are the two that are the legit spots for like copyright and intellectual property and excuse me and trademarks. I'm over here taking notes. I'm not even an artist. Keep taking those. That's all I'm keep taking.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

No, but that's that's the type of stuff that our audience needs to hear. Cause I know Kevin and I, we have these conversations all the time where we're like, man, they can do it. Like, there are ways for them to do it. We just need like people need to know what what it is and how to get to it. And just hearing the information put together in front of them in a simple way, right? That will help make a conducive path for that to happen. Um, that's why we like these conversations because it's not for like always like to see this, it's not just for us, it's for everybody. We're trying to make sure we spread the knowledge so we can make better moves out here and at the same time make make gains, but protect yourself while you're doing so. And I know we all need a little help in doing that.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Yes, because yeah, people really be out here, no, like because people really be out here making money, like making significant coins, and like the back end is a hot mess. And so you guys explain that.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Explain that, explain that front end, that back end situation real quick.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

I mean, so like front end, like sales, marketing, positioning, like that's one thing. Like, there are people who are out here who know how to make money, period. Like they know how to hustlers, they know how to connect, network, you know, like they know how to make money, but they don't know or understand the back end in terms of like what things should have been in place before they necessarily get into certain relationships. Yeah, and so I'm not even gonna lie. That's me. Let me like me. That's me. Yeah, that is me. I'm a true creative, but and that's it, just create. But back I business savvy. No, yeah, yeah. And like, and the thing is, like, I think a lot of times we think we say creatives, and we think of people like kind of in traditional, like creative industries, but like that goes across like entrepreneurs are creatives, right? So I work with a lot of entrepreneurs who aren't in quote unquote traditional, you know, creative spaces, but they're the same way, where it's like they create, they create, create, create, you know, they're making all this money in their business, but it's like, okay, wait, we gotta, we gotta go back to some foundational things because now that you are making significant money, now you're not able to take advantage of certain um tax benefits and things like that because you don't have certain contracts and agreements and things like that in place. So now I gotta get with your accountant. Now we gotta, now we gotta backtrack some things, right? To make sure that you're good and that you're in, you know, in a space where like now you can really and truly generate that wealth.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

I eat proper business standing.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Proper.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

This is something uh, I don't know if you know who Claude Anderson is, but we love I I love Claude Anderson, and one of his biggest things right now is black businesses need to get their stuff in order so that we can go out here, do what we need to do, and at the same time have a foundation to create a proper economic system for our community. And one way you have to do that is through contracts, uh and especially with our intellectual property, just making sure that we have a proper foundation. And that leads into uh this question here that was written by a good brother Mike, and uh everything is starting to change. Firstly, our money systems, our our our art systems, I don't know if you think which is weird, even how uh the way that money is uh produced, and that's just getting into NFTs and blockchains and et cetera. Um where do you see the future of intellectual property heading with this newfound world of digital media and art selling for hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars to be held forever? Like, where do you think it's going?

SPEAKER_02 31:57

I mean, I think it's really an exciting time that we live in. You know, if you are a creative person, if you're an entrepreneur, you know, creative entrepreneurs, it's like that's the heart of creative entrepreneurship, right? Is that you have intellectual property and you capitalize that off of that intellectual property. Like you understand the value of that and you've learned how to make a business around the things that out of the ideas in your head, right? Um and so I think we're yeah, and so I think that we're in a really exciting time in that it's really easier than ever now to make money um off of your intellectual property. But like you said, you have to go into it. You have to go into it making sure you're safeguarding yourself from the beginning and that you're really setting things up as a legitimate business as much as you possibly can. You know, even if, again, you don't have the resources to hire an attorney or an accountant, you know, fresh out, but that you are, you know, going to these various websites that I mentioned and other places to make sure that you are setting things up legitimately. Because I think another problem that a lot of people don't even kind of realize because you know they are in hustle mode and you know, they're just getting to the money, whatever, is that when you don't have certain things set up, it actually it halts you from being able to get to a certain level, and then it halts you from even being able to utilize various resources. So something that I saw a lot last year when COVID initially hit was that a lot of folks, you know, they were having, you know, business was slow, different things were shifting because of course the world was like shutting down, except for my folks who have always been online businesses, they were like getting to the 2020. Exactly. Like they had amazing years, you know, revenue years uh last year, 2020. But for folks who were not, you know, completely online, you know, it it had been difficult. And so, but there's a lot, there were a lot of resources out there for small businesses, but again, because they didn't have certain things set up in their businesses when it came to the paperwork and their financial numbers and things, they weren't eligible to even be able to receive those funds. So you have to, yeah. So it's kind of like I feel like with lawyers, like legal, like you know, accountants and stuff like that, it's kind of like people don't realize how important they are until it's almost too late.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

Um, you know, try to get them in there to finish up to to save like a disaster when they could have been there from the beginning, keeping it out of right, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Or even if it's not like complete disaster mode yet, it's just like okay, well, now I I want to take advantage of something and I can't take advantage of it because I've been operating for years as a hustle, as a hustler as opposed to a legitimate business owner. So um, and there is a difference. The most common area that people fail to, you know, check off their list when they're starting a business.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Like, what is the most common problem that you see or mistake that people just overlook that you have to remind them when they come to you? Most common mistake, that's a good question. That just came off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_03 35:09

That's a great question.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Yeah, that was a great question. I'm trying to think the most common mistake. I would say probably collaborating with other creatives, entrepreneurs, like getting into all these various different ventures without getting the paperwork set up for it initially. Because a lot of creatives, you know, it'll be like, like, oh, this is a great idea. Like, let's let's work together on X, Y, and Z thing. But then it's like no one talks about, okay, how is this thing gonna exactly? How's this thing gonna actually function? Like, we need to actually have a contract for this. Even if it's something where you're not looking to necessarily make money off of it initially, you still need to have a contract in place because with intellectual property, like there's so many, like you need to be clear on like who owns what.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Yes, yes, that part. That part.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Yeah, so yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Oh, I was about to say that's that's one of the things, and I guess this is part of like digging into where things are going now because that's why you have NFTs, because that way you could actually purchase something, have it, or put it in a contract, have it out there in a blockchain, and have it locked down, i.e., you don't have to worry about getting into an issue of whether whether or not something is legal and the ramifications on where uh monies and stuff should go from it, it's already set. And I know, I know this is something we were talking about this week. It is, it has it was weird because just because of the intellectual property right thing, even though it's related to monetary systems and et cetera, they're tying the money to the intellectual property, like one-to-one digitally. And I think that is interesting as a son of a gun. And do you think that will change the way you write contracts?

SPEAKER_02 36:51

You mean in terms of how ask that question again?

SPEAKER_01 36:55

All right. So, do you think the way that they're tying intellectual property to actual currency, do you think that's gonna change the way in which you write contracts?

SPEAKER_02 37:03

Oh, yeah, oh, 100%. So yeah, I mean it changes it every day. So that's that's a thing too. So that's another common mistake I would say. So, common mistake number one, we just talked about not getting paperwork in place because a lot of people think that if there's not money immediately attached to it, or if it's not a big enough amount of money, then I don't need to worry about it. That's not the case, because especially dealing with intellectual property, gotta get those ownership rights. But then also another mistake I would say is working with professionals who are not in the spaces that you operate in. So I can't tell you how many times I've gotten contracts from folks who are like, oh yeah, my brother-in-law is a family law attorney and he drafted this for me. And I'm like, honey, listen, like, no shade to your brother-in-law, but like this is not because things are constantly changing and evolving in these various spaces. Where, and if honestly, if you're not in the weeds of it and constantly working through it, like there's no way that you're gonna know the intricate details. So, yeah, to answer your question, yes, it already has changed the way that I draft contracts. Like, literally every scenario that I'm presented with through clients is like, you know, I and that's the thing I think people don't realize too. Like they feel like, oh, you're a contract lawyer, you probably got all these templates and you just kind of like copy paste, switch some stuff out, and like whatever. Not the case at all. Like every contract. I actually I honestly I kind of equate it to like music theory sometimes, right? Because it's like you're almost creating like the perfect song when you're writing a contract. Because there's so many, like, true, there's so many like moving pieces with it. There's so many things you have to consider in order to get it to merge into the final, you know, piece that it needs to be to ultimately really protect the client. And again, it's changing every single day because of the internet and the way in which people are making money through their intellectual property. So, yeah, for sure. It's it's fast moving and it is definitely always changing. What's the longest contract you ever put out? The longest I've ever drafted, read or both.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Um wow, red? Oh lord, I don't want to know that one.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

Um, the longest contract I ever read has a red line and negotiate, all that stuff. I think was like 65 pages. Yeah. In terms of ones that I've drafted, I don't get I try to keep stuff as plain English as possible. Um when I'm drafting contracts. So maybe the longest one I've personally done is maybe like 15, 20 pages. And that's like and that's like some you know, very interesting, unique situation sort of scenario. But like the average, you know, contract that I draft doesn't have to be that long. So yeah, you know, it sounds like a thing, like wow, yeah, it's a lot of work. Your your life as a mother, attorney, and spouse, like how do you balance everything? And do you have any tips for anyone? How do I balance everything? Well, I'm still learning how to balance being a mom because like I said, I have a two-month-old. So that is still very new for me. And I just started back in the last couple weeks. Um sorry, back working again. So it's been interesting to kind of balance um that. And so thankfully, we were able to find someone who comes um to our house because I am uh home-based, so my firm has actually been virtual since 2018. We work with clients all over. Yeah, we work with clients all over. Um, I used to have a physical office here in Houston, but honestly, it just didn't make sense because a lot of my clients aren't even in Houston. So the ones who are from Houston are never they're hardly here anyway, because they're always traveling and you know doing different stuff for their businesses. So, yes, I've been home-based since 2018. And so, like I said, we were fortunate to find someone who comes to our house to watch the baby for you know a set amount of hours every day during the week so that I can get some work done. So that's been nice and helpful because you know, babies they sleep and they do sleep a lot, but they are super unpredictable. So yeah, not trying to be on Zoom calls with my son. But so that's been cool. And in terms of like, you know, being a wife, all that. I mean, man, me and my husband have been married maybe six years this year. So I think I got some congratulations, yeah. I think I got some good practice in terms of like balancing that stuff for a while before we, you know, had our sons. So that was nice. So I mean, and I will say definitely working from home makes it easier for me to balance because even though I do have, you know, days can be long and depending upon what is on my with various deals and things like that, you know, some weeks are more taxing than others, but it's it's nice to be home because at least I can still kind of, you know, do stuff around the house. And I think that's amazing that you're virtual. I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_01 42:18

No, since 2018.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

So I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_01 42:21

Ahead of the game.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

That's just encouragement right there. Like you're encouraging people to like, you know, yeah. Yeah, no, I mean it really, because with a lot of these deals, I mean, it's your email. It's email, phone calls, you know, you're electronically signing contracts, like nobody's meeting in person in these big conference rooms to like negotiate deals. Like that's the world is it's so weird, like it's evolving right before us. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So, yeah, it's a hundred percent possible, you know. So now, do you have uh people under you working under you also? I do, and we're all everyone's virtual. So I utilize a lot of different apps, and so I think that's you know, when I speak about things that entrepreneurs need to do and all that stuff, it's like you know, I'm speaking to them from like, okay, I'm an attorney, so I see the legal stuff, but it's like I'm also an entrepreneur, right? Who is also like doing stuff in the online space, has intellectual property because like I mentioned, you know, have the contract templates that we sell. So that's like you know, really a that's actually technically a whole separate business. And right, I saw that.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

I saw the legal, the legal uh attachments in there to explain that it is a separate LLC.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

Absolutely no games with it. Listen, not at all. And and I don't know when we all released this episode, but we're actually in the process of um separating out the branding. So we have a lot of exciting things getting ready to happen with the digital product store. So I'm really excited about that. But yeah, so my team, everyone is virtual. Let's see, we're we're a f we're a small team. My business manager is in Atlanta, my legal associates in LA, and then I have some other creative copywriters in uh Detroit, and yeah, that's my core folks. Okay, that's amazing. Like I wish we had like a drum roll round of applause.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Yeah, we had a little, we could get a little props. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

Yeah, yeah. So, but yeah, I mean, it's totally doable. It's I mean, it's been great for me. Like a big part of I always knew I wanted to work for myself. So even in law school, like I was intentionally connecting with other attorneys who had their own practices and just other entrepreneurs. And so, you know, uh for me, building a business around my lifestyle has always been my primary focus. Yeah. So so it makes it easier to balance, you know, being a mom, being a wife, because those things for me are the priority, and my business has to work around those things, not the other way around. So what's your zodiac sign? You seem very organized. I am very organized. I'm a cancer. So I don't know. Uh I don't get too deep into zodiac signs, but I'm a cancer. I don't know if that's like organized or what. I just like asking people actually zodiac signs.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

Yeah, you gotta ask. I thought I was about to wait, I was waiting for that. Um we had to figure out because like you're yeah, you're on top of your stuff. Like, first of all, you're ahead of the game um on what it is that you do and how you do it. Um, you have your your your birds in the order, man. I mean, the ducks all lined up, all pretty. So we always like to ask that. And we always want we always want our audience to hear that people like this do exist and that this is real and it's not some fictional stuff. So yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

So, how can people find you and Contact you if they have any questions or just want to get involved. Yeah, for sure. So I'm on social media at contractcasey everywhere on social. So Instagram is where I'm most active. So you can definitely connect with me over on Instagram. Um if you have questions, you can send us an email. Hello at chandylaw.com. That email is also on Instagram. So literally, if you find me on Instagram, like you'll be able to get to everything else. Yeah. So but you can always, you know, slide in my DMs and stuff too. But but yeah, email, you know, if you want a quick response, you probably want to send the email. So you check your email. And you check your email like every hour on the hour. Well, no. So my assistant managing the inbox. So that's what I mean in terms of like if you want a quicker response, make sure you sit. Because like, you know, because I get a lot of messages and stuff, you know, DMs and whatnot. And I get to them when I can, but like, you know, that's our job. So if you send an email, you'll get a much quicker response. Um, also tell us about your podcast because I was listening to a couple episodes.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 46:53

So about my podcast. So we're so we're on a bit of a uh hiatus at the moment, and actually in the process of kind of of revamping that as well. So in line with the things that we're going to be doing with the digital product store. So definitely stay tuned for all of those things. But yes, so the podcast, unspoken terms, we talk with influencers, entrepreneurs about their journeys in business. And we like to highlight some of the um experiences they've had that haven't been the best experience as it comes to some of the legal things in their business. So primarily contracts, of course, and some things that they didn't realize, you know, they need to have in their contract and not having contracts in place at all, and how that impacted them in business. And so it's really a resource for other entrepreneurs to listen to, you know, these folks who are doing really well and just learning from their mistakes. So yeah, so that's the premise of a podcast. But stay tuned for, like I said, we're we're in a we're in a bit of a transition space right now with those things. But yeah. Well, thank you so much. I enjoyed this episode.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

Me too, man. It was excellent. Because we don't usually get to speak to um, I guess you get like entertainment lawyers or contractual lawyers. People don't walk around every day and say, hey, hey, let me spark up a conversation with this contractual lawyer over here. It's something that it's something, especially in the space we deal in, that we need we need to have these conversations. And so Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

And that's what I like is having a conversation. And I like that you're a female entrepreneur doing it, doing it well. Thank you. Well, thank you guys so much for having me. And I will say, you know, like any entrepreneur, nothing is perfect, right? In every stage of business, there's always gonna be things that come up that you gotta tweak, that you gotta work through, but you just gotta keep going, you know, keep your eye on the prize, you know, whatever your reason was for starting your business, just keep that at the forefront and just keep pushing, working through, and connecting with other folks because that makes a huge difference in how you succeed for sure in business.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

Most definitely. Well, with that being said, we want to, man, give a big big ups, big thanks to our guests today, our esteemed guests, Ms. Casey Handy Smith Esquire. We're gonna throw the Esquire on the end, make sure they get that in there. Because you know you took that you took that test for a reason. Um, we want to thank her for coming on today, explaining some of these, uh, I guess some of the intricate details dealing with contract law, with creative, creatives, influencers, thought leaders, etc. Also intellectual property. We want everybody uh to make sure they go through and check out her uh Instagram page. We will also post this stuff up in the um on episode uh information when we do put the episode out. And I mean, other than that, all I can say is everybody have a great Saturday. Enjoy yourself out there, be safe, and until next time, take it easy. Peace.