SPEAKER_05 1:45

Good morning, good morning, good morning, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Hilltop Glove Podcast. Today we have the pleasure of interviewing Yori Yori. Yori is a Los Angeles-based production assistant, voiceover artist, and podcast producer. She has worked on programs such as Shots of Sunset, House of Cards, and VT Awards. Yori also has her own podcast, Five Minutes with a Nakata, that seeks to understand and repair the cultural gap between African Americans and the African diaspora. Thank you so much for joining us today. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Hey y'all, super excited to be here. I'm great. It's the holidays, so you know you got that feeling of joy on the inside. How's your weather out there? I'm good. How y'all doing? It's so sneaky. It reminds me of Baltimore. It's making me miss Baltimore. It's up and down. It's been cold, and I'll go outside with a hoodie on, and they're like, no, it's actually cool.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

Living next to the coast. It feels kind of toasty yesterday. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

That's exactly right. You know, and it's so funny when I talk to people, I feel like, because I got family in California. I mean, uh, and and I still got my community and my people back in Baltimore, and it very much feels like we all be going through the same real because we're not supposed to be a little bit more than a lot of people.

SPEAKER_05 3:13

So yeah, I always like to ask people how their day's going. I wanna even how how's your year been going out there living in LA with you know the different things happening, etc., all the coronavirus stuff. How has it been living out there, moving and growing?

SPEAKER_02 3:28

That's a good question. Not too bad. I would say that it's been it's been okay for me personally, because I freelance and so I've it in terms of coronavirus, I mean in terms of you know COVID restrictions, I've probably been too good to sit down somewhere. I definitely did a lot of traveling.

SPEAKER_05 3:45

So your business hasn't been halted too much by uh the different because I know out there in California you got different laws and restrictions, regulations than we do here in South Carolina. That's why I asked that question, especially as a creative. I was just wondering how it was looking out there with the changes and whatnot, but oh well, because I well, in terms of you know, business, you know, in terms of my podcast, everybody's remote.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

The same way I'm talking to you guys about the podcast, I would say the first season of we're probably more than half were in person. But other than that, everybody's gonna be.

SPEAKER_05 4:29

Like within the past two to three years, that changer you have seen. It already started going that way, but it was kind of forced to go on overdrive, right, Mike? We've been doing that.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

Yeah, we we've been swinging that direction, but yeah, COVID kind of pushed everybody else who who wasn't all the way down with being remote. And that's a good thing, man, because we we normally wouldn't be having a conversation.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Yeah, and it's so funny, it's kind of like uh it's kind of like the memes that went out.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

Some of us introduce it were already introverts, so this is perfect. So like I'm an introvert and extrovert, and it's just funny because like a whole bunch of people became in not became, but were like, what do I do inside? And it was like, oh, like go talk to an introvert, like I can help you with that. So it's along those lines, like everybody, like you said, everybody yells.

SPEAKER_05 5:21

Excellent. Well, um, just uh starting off with your background. I know our audience, they're gonna be um interested to hear how you became interested in the film and production industry, especially with your position as a production assistant and a producer. Could you explain how you jumped into that, like where you're from, and how that became your your goal and your career path?

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

So I am, and it's so funny. I I want to start off by saying I am a former, you know, podcast and radio producer. That is where my real training is in, or experience, I should say. My training is in section, but I have not been in that field in a long time. This year is like my year coming back. So I'm I'm kind of considering myself reintroducing myself to it. Um, because if we're honest, you and you all know, like this industry is ever changing, especially with technology and social media. So the bare bones are still there, you know. The obvious things are still there that I've learned, but there's still a lot of really new things, and I'm like, whoa. So I'm I I I kind of used the pandemic as an excuse to say goodbye to my audio life in terms of producing for other people, and then coming back to film.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

No, you're fine.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

I just wanted to start with that. But I am uh, yeah, I I started off, it's so funny. So I actually started off in middle school thinking that I would be an artist for the most part, uh a singer and a dancer. I very much wanted to be a singer and dancer. I had a girl group, me and my friends had a girl group in elementary school. I was writing songs, like I was very serious. And one of my friends was like, No, you was really serious. Like, we would be in practices and you were like looking at us like one, two, three, let's go. And they were not. And I was like, what's going on? What do you mean you want to play on the play?

SPEAKER_05 7:18

You were a mini Joe Jackson. You were a mini Joe Jackson to the kids.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

It was a problem. I just had to calm down. But no, so when I was in middle school, I knew that I was gonna go to a high school, like a lot of my and there's a photography major there, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna become a photographer because I had an older cousin who would come home with me. I'm gonna become a photographer, gonna be on the set of like Essence or Ebony, everybody subscribes to that. So that was all over my living room, and I was like, I'm gonna work for one of these companies, and then I'm gonna be on set doing photography, and then they're gonna discover me when I sing. It's perfect. This is the plan. Oh yeah, and they're gonna love me. And that's not what happened. So I went to high school and did a um PSA assignment. And so before you actually declare a major, you have to, you know, take various classes, wood shop, auto, auto shop, radio, everything, which was great because I was like, Yeah, this is the kind of you know the vocationary, and it sets you up, you know, first, you know, scholarly as well. But so yeah, I did an assignment to create a PSA, and we had to have partners, and I did it with a partner, and we got like one of the top grades, and my professor kept raving about it, and that's great, but for me internally, like I was like, wait a minute, did I really just like take something out of my brain, put it on a piece of paper, and now everyone can see what was in my brain? It was that breakdown point that like was like literally felt like magic. Now I'm like, no, no joke. Like I know a lot of people like say different things, but like I really, really was like me. I literally had this in my head, and now other people can see what they couldn't see what was in my head. Like that's how deep it was for me. So I was like, I think this is what I want in the process that it you know, scripting it out, writing it out, finding people, directing, editing, the whole process was so exciting, and I didn't have all the terminology then still, but I knew this is it. I was like, oh my god, I don't know what this is. I don't know if this is a direct, I think I was saying director for a long time. I don't know if this is it. I just I just want to be director, like, and then you know, there's so many disciplines. There's film, there's television, there's commercial, and then there's so many different entities within that. And so, you know, you kind of um funnel that out as you get older. And so went through college and question, question.

SPEAKER_05 9:52

Where where did you um where were you in middle school and high school at?

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Go ahead and shout out Portland.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

All day I claim hard for Portland Oregon, PDX. Yeah, she represent her clip. Represent what I always do. It is so funny to me because you're like, I never knew they were black. Like, I get that all the time. It is so, no matter where I go. Black and white, actually, but mainly black. Black people. I don't know if there was Africans in Portland, I don't know if it was black people in Portland. Like, I didn't know. I get that every Oregon, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 10:32

Oregon was founded as kind of like a segregation state, like a white state.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Absolutely, absolutely, and um Oh wow, okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Whitest state in America, literally. No, no, she's not lying.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

She's literally I remember my work dad. No, look, that's the joke, but it's like the serious. My my work dad, Sean Yo's, shout out to Sean Yo's, would always say that. And I knew the history, but then I like I actually dove in a little bit more and was like, I knew, but like when you are rereading things and learning things as an adult, it's like how did I survive? But uh but to be honest with you, like I always tell people, like, I didn't realize I was in a white state until like people told me and until I got a little bit older. So like I was always around black. I go to church, black. I'm with my family, black. I go to the park, black, I'm with my friends, black. So like I was always around my people, I was always in black neighborhoods, I was always in black settings. And yes, my schools were mixed and diverse, and I always just thought of that as diverse because I was also a PBS kid. So I'm looking at PBS shows and they talking about different cultures, and I'm like, yep, this is what I see at school. And so I think as I got older, I was like, there are like we wouldn't have, I'm not gonna front, we definitely had jokes as kids, as you know, me and my friends, like, look at the hitting white kids walking around. Leave them alone. You know what I'm saying? You know, we would do that, but we just thought it was just white people being white. We didn't realize, like, oh, because we are actually surrounded around white people in this state. Like, I didn't I personally didn't.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

How did your family how did your family get to Portland?

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Um I get that question all the time as well. So my grandfather was he got offered a job after the war. He's from Georgia. My grandmother and my grandfather are from Georgia. I believe he's from Warner Robbins, and she's from Macon. I mix them up all the time, but either way, they're both from both of those states.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

And then they came down, I think, after two or three pressed up. She in a and my dad is Nigerian.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

So my mom is African American, my dad's Nigerian, and my dad came here for where where from in Nigeria is your father from?

SPEAKER_01 12:57

We are adult people. Oh wow, man.

SPEAKER_05 13:01

Oh man, all right. I guess um, I mean that that leads really uh well into this next question. Like, and you were saying this, you know, growing up in that, you know, kind of like white out area. What obstacle did you face any obstacles trying to trying to get out of there and pursue your dreams? Did they come from your community? Was it from the outside or just internal issues? Yeah, yeah, I'm in turn.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

That last part.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

I don't know that yeah, that part. I don't know that I faced any obstacles from people. I would just say, like any area, and I think I used to think so harshly about this in terms of Portland, and then when you leave where you're from and you talk where they're from, it's kind of the same thing. I hear this story everywhere, but there was just this mentality that I felt like you know, when people leave, they go come back, like you know, or you know, I don't think there's anything wrong with working for the city, but I don't think people dream big enough. And so it's kind of just like for me and what I experienced, I don't want to speak for all black people in Portland, but like that was my experience. It just kind of was like, well, you know, I'm the and again. There's nothing wrong with these uh occupations. I just right, and not just someone, someone is skilled to be there, right? And so I'm so I'm big on purpose, like that's one of my cores. And so, like, I I'm I I'm just like this ain't for me. Like, and to be honest with you, school has always been a struggle for me. Education has always been like tough. Like, you know, I've got family members that are always coming home with A's, and my mom graduated high school three years, and here I am talking about C's and D's and they looking at Ys. So school has always been tough, and I was like, I don't think I'm gonna make it as an adult. So, but I knew I was creative, I was really, really smart. I knew I was smart, but I was also bullied that I wasn't, that things it took me a little more time than other people, so I always felt kind of like slow and stupid because that's what Oh Lord, they were rough. So, so listen. I know you're stupid at all. No, I'm just you know, I just so I would say it was a little bit of like feeling like if you dream kind of big, people kind of look at it, like for case an example. I remember when I came back, like my first year, or maybe my sophomore year for Christmas break, I came back and I was telling people, like, I'm gonna start a production company, I'm gonna start a production company, ID production 2018.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

And instead of like, oh, that's what's up, you know, like most people say, Oh, hey, gonna do that.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

That's not hard. That's a lot. Don't you gotta do this? Don't you gotta like the response? Was so interesting, right? But then when I was in when I was in Baltimore, when I was on the East Coast and I traveled, I would have me and my friends always up and down that that DMV, uh, East Coast line, like we was everywhere. And like, oh, that's what's up. I know a homeboy that da-da-da.

SPEAKER_04 16:13

Let me know if you need it was different.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

It was not how are you going to? It's that's what it was, it was always more encouraging, and how can I help? And so that's what I mean. It was a mentality thing. And I'll be honest with you, you know, my mom later told me, probably around that same time, like halfway through college, oh yeah, yeah, people be saying, You're gonna come back, she'll be back.

SPEAKER_05 16:37

Oh, like they didn't want you to succeed, or they didn't want you to leave them.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

I guess the trend was when people and it's just like they try to get out, like, gotta get out of here, they don't survive. They don't make it. I guess that was the point. I don't know, I guess. And I'm just like, I really don't plan on it. Like I'm I was running. I was really, really running from from a lot of my childhood was interesting, it was good. I don't want to make it sound like it was bad, but I think leaving it, I all I saw was the bad for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

And it took it took really good friends and a really good. I was like, I'm only looking at the negative when it came. I definitely had a a background where I was rejected. I was rejected ever since.

SPEAKER_05 17:26

And question, where where did you go to college?

SPEAKER_01 17:32

I went to the move! Oh wow!

SPEAKER_02 17:37

All right, absolutely. I majored in broadcast, integrated uh television, integrated media with uh how did you um how was that experience there?

SPEAKER_05 17:47

How would you rank it?

SPEAKER_01 17:50

It was amazing.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

So actually, let me let me couple it with the last question a little bit. So this is this is kind of what outside of family, this is kind of what was my my North Star, so to speak. I was in a program called I Love, and it was ran by the bridge builders through Kevin Fuller. And for me, it was everything. I loved it. It was a it was a community of black people coming together to learn about our history, to learn about unity and togetherness, to put God in the center of that. And it really promoted HBCUs. And so we would have historic, they're called historic black college tours. And so we would go and you know, the joke was that we were a mini fraternity sorti. Excuse me, that was the joke. And so we would go on these tours dressed alike in certain, you know, paraphernalia and our little pullovers and our dresses and all this stuff, and we would have uh mission statements and we would sound the same and you know, all that stuff. So I didn't go to Morgan for one of my tours. I think we were kind of, if I remember, we went through like Texas and down kind of the south, and then to be very honest with you, I can't remember all the states that we went to, but we had all those who came before us and what we call um gents and Osho. So basically it was a program where you had to go through passage to show yourself that you're ready to go and present yourself to the community, to the village. Like just because you turned 18, that isn't making sense. That isn't making sense, and so we had to learn a lot and go through a series of stuff to go through passage to become an Oshun. And so we had Oshun and Gents, that's the guy side, because they're separate programs, but we did do my brother was a part of it. That's how I know about this.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

It is really school shit. This is a daring shit.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

Very, very, very popular in Portland for a long time. It does, I think we might have been the last class to go through, unfortunately. To me, unfortunately, it wasn't. But um, yeah, so we had gents and oh shooms who would come back during what we call our Kwanza Gala Ball, and around that time they would share with us. And there was another event.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Oh my goodness, they would always shoot me in the foot. Shoot.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

There was another event that we would have. We had different events throughout the year where it was annual, where we would have the gents in the oceans that would come back and like just share with us their experiences being in college. Like, did you decide to stay in Oregon? Did you go to a HBCU or did you go to Ivy League? And they would share these experiences. And and one of my brother's friends went to Morgan and share with me how much he loved Morgan and how he was doing communications and how they were doing all this new stuff at the school. And it was in Baltimore. My brother was uh working at John Hopkins at the time, I think. And so it was my parents probably just felt comfortable with it. In my head, I was making my own decisions. And so we did like a for our own family and really enjoyed excuse me, enjoyed it, and uh it didn't it didn't hurt that they had the same school colors as I was okay with that.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 21:12

That's excellent. That's excellent.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

Joe's Morgan.

SPEAKER_05 21:16

Well, all right, so of course from there, of course, you you go into this into the communications program. Of course, you had to have some influences that led you that way. What were some of those influences growing up? Like, were you an avid movie um goer or watcher? Did you did you like certain television programs? Like, what pushed you into this production?

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Well, honestly, like I said, that project did.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

I can say what um type of show watching coming up, you know. Honestly, a lot of stuff. So there were times when I had cable, most of the time I didn't have cable growing up, but when I did have cable, this is old school. I've been missing out on the name brand. It's like, you know, you know, it's the difference between Mr. Flakes and Frosted Flakes, like, oh man. So this is great. But I listen, I watched uh Wisha, Friends, all that. I wanted to be on all that so bad. Um Mad T B. I wanted to be on Mad Two Jamie Foxx show, Clueless. Everything three steps if you want to get into that, but I don't know if there's Google Foo fans out there. Yes, between the lines. Yes, dragon tails. Dragon Tails? I'm dope.

SPEAKER_05 22:39

I'm playing. All right, you were the PBS kid for real.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

Okay. But you know, we can get into all that. But like, you know, within my top five is probably like Fisha, friends. I yes, I'm black and I'm saying friends. There's Grace.

SPEAKER_03 22:57

Different Hillman the Gl uh Hillman Hill and the Game, one of our previous guests made a a trivia board game based off of different words.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Wait, I think I might have heard of that.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

I think I might have heard of that. That's so dope. I just I just but yeah, I was I I pretty much watched everything. So yeah. And to to this day, I think the top two albums right now. Alright, I'm gonna just say three. This is really off the top of my head. I know you're on the spot.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

So I would say I really love and all the filmmakers get closer, like mm-hmm. Let me see. All the food film and things. I'm like, calm down.

SPEAKER_05 23:47

Um watch all kind of shit.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Oh, the connoisseurs. No, I would say Cinderella. I know, I thought you were gonna see. The brandy version.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

It's so funny. It's so funny. We like the black version. It's not.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

The guy was like, he's like Filipino. And then I I just I love musicals as a kid. And The Devil Wears Prada. I really love the concept. It's just a real, I love the sense of not compromising and knowing where you're and bamboozle. Bamboozle. That was like I watched that in middle school. Wow. I know, right? So I don't know how I got my hands on it, but I was watching it, and then I remember talking to my brother. I don't, I was like, there's certain things I get but I don't get. And then he was like, watch it again. I was like, but but what about this part? Watch it again. He wouldn't like help me.

SPEAKER_04 24:55

Force you to go and delve into that in the knowledge bomb.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like my I had a thirst for that. And I think maybe that's kind of uh, I don't know, maybe that's kind of what's brought up before I think about it. Yes, and it was like when I finally figured it out, like I just, and you know, I haven't watched it in a while, so but that was kind of I guess quote unquote my woke moment because you know, I mean, I'm I love black cinematography and black shows and and stuff like that anyway, but I feel like that kind of scratched an itch since I was already there. And so I've always just loved, I would say those three are that we have shape.

SPEAKER_03 25:43

So you add that to this feeling that you got when you realized that you could transmit ideas out of your mind into somebody else's.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Oh yeah, that would go along with that for sure.

SPEAKER_03 25:52

Right? Okay, so then what when you started doing this, what are you what are you really like looking to contribute to like the zeitgeist of American media or or the world as a whole? Like what what what you trying to say?

SPEAKER_02 26:11

You know, I think I spoke to it before in terms of my cores, like purpose is one of my cores, and unity and respect are the other two. And when it comes to this project, those two things go hand in hand. And I think growing up in a black home, but also being raised Nigerian was interesting. It was tough, and it was always not always, but it was often kind of conflicting to the point where you're like you're one way home and then another way when you go out. And so, and I think a lot of you know Nigerian Americans can attest to that. I feel like a lot of that is kind of coming out now too. So, but I've always felt like I wanted to tell that story. And so I would say probably in 2000, I just I just knew that I had stories that I wanted to tell stories that were positive and that reminded people that you're gonna be okay. Like that's that's what I knew I wanted to do before Akata came along. Like I just loved, you know, not necessarily that Hollywood ending, but a little bit of hope. Because this is just a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 27:29

This is some hope. Good Lord, this is some hope.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

You know what I'm saying? Because you've got people, because I would be in classes where like, man, I hate the Hollywood and shit. Like, dude, like people hate it. And I'm like, what? Like, you know, college is that thing where you learn from other people and you're like, I never would have never thought of that. Like I didn't know there were people who legitimately don't like Hollywood endings, and so that's why I'm not saying like everything's squeaky and shiny now. We can go skip in the park. Like, no, I'm not saying that. What I am saying is like, I don't want to be, I want to be left with hope. Like, we can be honest, we can be real, we can be raw, we can say, we can, I get that art, you know, the imitation of life, and it needs to reflect it, but we can still sprinkle in hope because what you see become what you believe you are. And so, you know, words are powerful, so it's like, let's still make and that's just my that's just my personal thing and my obligations. But that's just me, you know, to each its own. I've put I've watched plenty of films that don't do that, and it was and it still inspired me to be like, dang, like, you know, you know, so there's still ways to do it, but that's just what I want to do. But in terms of your question, like, what do I kind of want to leave here, like when it comes to my production, like I with this particular topic, you know, I want people to know that we really can coexist, and I want people to understand that we are so much the same more than we think we're different.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

That's the main thing. Because yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

Because being, you know, like I said, being part Nigerian and being part African American, which I don't even say, which is so crazy. Like, I never say, like, I was some well, there are definitely times where I say, like, oh, I'm half this and I'm half that. But like, if you were to ask me, like, if I was walking down the street and you say, What are you? I'm gonna say Nigerian, African American. Like, I'm both, and I feel thoroughly both personally, as thoroughly as I can be being born here in America, right? So, but the other struggle was, you know, and I don't know if I'm jumping ahead here, but I can kind of just get into like what got me to even want to tell this story, which is that you know, I love my people, you know what I'm saying? I love Nigerians. We we we dope, but sometimes we could be a bit harsh on certain things. And for from and I can say that from my experience, and and I can say that without and growing up, I was always quiz, still to this day. Actually, growing up, this is still happening, they don't care how old you are. Like you are y'all still younger than me. I am not your mates. What are you talking to? So, you know, but they you know, I was always getting quiz. You know, if when I was in I think my senior year at Morgan, I worked at Rhine 8, and so I got my name badge, right? Got my name badge on, I'm checking people out at the cashier, and people walk up and ask, you know, earned app not people, but Nigerians would come in and especially the the older folk, eh what's what's your name? What's what's what's your name day? I see your name tech.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

What's your name? And I'm like, Iori. And and this is why I say I don't mind. And I'm like, Iori. And they're like, eh, are you sure? And I'm like, Iore. Oh Lord.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

I'm like, oh my god, it's like my childhood all over again.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

And they're like, um, so do you know what it means? Where are you from? Where's your father from? Okay, very good. Now, what does your name?

SPEAKER_02 31:22

And I'm just like, do you, uncle, do you just want to get your apple just and leave? Like, there's a line. Just need you to leave. Like, this is embarrassing on multiple levels. And I'm like, yes, I know what it is. And then I tell him, and he's like, Okay, very good. Well, you know, because your daddy is Nigerian, you are Nigerian. You know that. When your daddy is from one place, that is the place you are from. I say, yes, sir. And you have to say, like, sir, you know, and you know, you have a heavier accent, it's sa. Yes, sir. You know, I'm like, yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

And he's like, okay, okay, I'll be going now. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

Like, you know, it is just like back to like they go from like teacher mode back to like being this nice, pleasant. Like, oh my god. But you know, let me let me hit you up with this pop quiz real quick. Who are you? Do you know who you are? Do you really? Like, and I got that a lot, and it was so annoying, bro. Like, it was super annoying, especially the part that would suck. And at one point, I started doing it more because I was like, this might be in my. But then I actually realized that they looked down on me more when I would tell them my mom was African American. And I'd be like, you know, but you are b, you know, you go through the whole question. So after they ask you your name, you know where you're from. Okay, so you're Nigerian. Have you been to Nigeria? Yes, I okay, that's good. Um, where is your is your mommy from the same place your daddy is from? Like, and and they want to know in terms of village.

SPEAKER_05 33:00

And I'm like, no, she's like, Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Hmm, and okay. Like that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

Oh, so you're not a real Nigerian.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Exactly. That's literally what it felt like every single time. And so that was really annoying. And and you know, growing up, I just didn't always feel fully accepted by so I would say my dad's friends probably made me kind of feel okay about that, like not too bad, but like other people did, didn't. And so I was in a uh what we call ISA, International Student Association, but most schools called it ASA. And I was on the board in the later years, but when I first just like joined, I think it might have been like my first meeting, actually, like with my roommate freshman year. And there was a debate happening on whether or not, you know, Nigerians have struggled. And this guy was like, ah, we have struggled though. We had to do this. My daddy had to do this. When we die, when I came here to America, we had to do this. This this these Akadas don't they don't know struggle. These black people, these, these these black people, these black Americans, they don't know. They don't know struggle. They don't know struggle.

SPEAKER_05 34:22

Like, 400 years of history, this out of the door, this is out of the window.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

I was just there it is, just finished. Like, never existed. And I was like, okay, and then I was like about to say something, but someone else kind of said something, and I'm gonna be honest, I was a little hesitant because you know, I didn't really know what I was going to say, like, okay, and but I've always felt like I had to defend both sides, and so I remember leaving that meeting and telling my friend and saying, hey, bro, like what's what's the catharbie? And he was like, Well, I mean, I don't know. It's just like like no one could really tell me. They're like, it's just it's just like African-American. And so my other friend actually told me, like, nah, it means wild, like wild cat or wild dog or like fox. And I was like, are you serious? So why are they calling us that? You know what I'm saying? And he was like, I mean, not you, you're Nigerian. I was like, nah, my mom's African-American too, bro. Like, and he's like, Oh, okay. You know, and I've had friends who were like, I didn't know your mom was African, you act so Nigerian. Like, people always say that. And I'm like, Well, I'm Nigerian, so I'm just being me. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know. You know, but you know so much. Cause I guess they'll be like, I've met other people who are half and they they don't know stuff.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

And that's not their fault. I feel like a lot of times that falls on the parent, you know what I'm saying? And then the other part did fall on me where I was just very I loved there were definitely parts of my culture that I really loved, and so I would kind of engross myself in them and and you know, make sure that I was around it and learned about it. But yeah, so once I would say this became an obsession, an exception with the word, and I was literally obsessed. I just could not understand why there wasn't a real definition, and then that turned into a fresh. I was, I was, let me double back. I would say I was frustrated first. I was very frustrated with this word, and I was seeking out to expose the word and get everybody to, you know, not use this word, and we don't have to start a particular like, you know, I was very militant, you're a militant very like much. We are gonna abolish this word now. People don't know. And so I would have a lot of conversations with people before I decided to make it a student project. So I made it a student project, and I was I remember talking to a professor, and uh I think this was after I made the project. Can't remember if this was after or before.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Hey, I got a name by the way, praise the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

But I believe I had to, he didn't like the title. He was like, that's too long, and it was like looking back, it was like it was weird, bro. It was like the demographic of Nigerians in America from the diaspora. It was like long and like it was freaking uh what is it called? Jeez, I can't think of the word like this dissertation. There you go. Like it was like a like, no, you're not, you know, it's just a film, like you want people to watch it, okay? So um, but he was like, I need just a word, like what's like like you need to sum it up in a word or a phrase, you know? And he was his back was turned to me, like you know, walking around in the in his office, and his back was to me in the chair at the moment, and I was like, I turned chair on.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

Oh my lord.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

That's it, what does that mean? I wanna know. Like he was really in for it. I was like, okay, that's it. That's the one, and so that's where the title came from, essentially. And a student project, like I said, turned into this obsession where everywhere I wanted to ask people about this word, every Nigerian that I would come in contact with, I would like to have this conversation and dialogue about it. So, and then I started working on a documentary full about it, and then that didn't work out the way I wanted to, so I did a docuseries, I started the first series, and then things didn't work out the way I wanted them to, beyond my, you know, beyond my control. And then I wanted to put it down. Like honestly, I was like, I'm so done with this, I don't want to do this anymore. Like it's just not working out the way I want to. I don't have the funds, I don't have the team, I don't have this, da da da. And then just got this inspiration to do it. And then I will say, there was there were definitely times where because I was working for a public radio and because I was working for a radio station, I was well known in the city. Shout out to, you know, I remember there was a late, like, you know, there was a lady who came up to me and she was like, I don't know how or where, I can't remember all the details, but I'll never forget the moment. And somehow she might have heard my name in the crowd or something, and she was like, Wait, are you that Yuri girl? I was like, aren't you the girl with the documentary?

SPEAKER_03 39:23

I was like, Oh, people talking about me.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Right. I was like, I'm I I put that down, you know what I mean? But it was that moment that reminded me that I had to pick it back up because she was like, Oh, that was it sounds so interesting because I was promoting it, you know, I was promoting it and and really like going for it. I was really serious to the point where my friends even like my best friend, like forced me to have a release party, and we did a panel discussion that went really well, did up the whole nine yards, but it just wasn't up to the standard that I wanted. Even as a young indie filmmaker, I'm just like, man, this is not what I like. So it is not for public consumption um at this point, but it was that moment with that with that lady that reminded me, like, I guess I gotta pick this back up. Because that wasn't the the only time I had other people asking me who knew me or knew me through other people who were like, aren't you working on the documentary? How's it going? Da-da-da-da. I want to see it, you know. And so I decided to do a scripted short series, and then what I've realized is that I'm a visionary and I seem very, very fake, and then I have to funnel it down to like, okay, but these are your resources right now. You know, if you want to do something right now, this is what it has to look like, right? And so then it just became a short. So we did a lot of where we were eliminated a lot of scenes and just decided to film certain scenes to compose a short. So essentially it is a series-long type of project, but we took certain scenes to come create a short, and yeah, we did that and started in 2019, finished it, and I did submit it to a smaller um film festival in London, and we did get first-time filmmaking selection, which was really cool. So I need to put it through some more, some more film festivals. But at this point, it's really just like proof of concept for me. That's really what it is to get people to see visually, like this is what I see, and there's so much more that can come. But that's where I am with it, and that's how it started. Like, I just I just could not understand for the life of me why there isn't a real definition. And then in my study and in my research with the documentary, I feel like I have found the definition. I feel like I found something that no one's been able to say so far. And that's perfectly fine. Like, if someone says it today, I'm like, okay, great, but that doesn't mean I still don't have this theory about how we got to where we're so I'm in conversation with different historians and reaching out to different people.

SPEAKER_03 42:03

Like, like every every person that hears it has their own kind of thing that goes with it, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Exactly. That's the crazy, like, bro, I cannot stress enough the different, you know, definitions that I've collected over the years. And more recently, I started actually writing them down. And so there was this, there is this lady on the uh on the bus train to Philadelphia, and she gets on the bus. I see she's Nigerian, the seat is empty next to me. I'm like, she's about to sit next to me. She sits next to me, and then I always feel this pressure because as a Nigerian, when you walk into a room or you see an elder, like you're supposed to speak. Which is also interesting because my dad will also say, like, don't speak unless you're spoken to. And this is like, which I'm so confused. But like, what is happening? But when but when she got on the when she got on, I kind of felt confused, like I always do this, and I'm like, oh, should I speak up? Is she gonna know right away I'm Nigerian? Maybe she will if she asked me my name after an hour on this link, uh, after an hour on this train, and I didn't seem, you know, hi, I don't know if it's gonna get back to my dad. Like, literally, like anxiety, and so I'm just like, let me just come out with it. I said, hello, how are you? She's like, hi, how are you? I feel good. And I was like, Are you Nigerian? And so I just kind of come out with it now. I'm like, okay, well, nice to meet you, Auntie, because that's what you know, you call people auntie or uncle out of respect. So, and yeah, and so we get to talking, and I was like, Hey, can I ask you a question? Now, this was the one of the game changers, I would say. This definition had never heard. I was like, She was like, Oh, you know, it's like yourself, because we had already talked, so I told her a little bit about about myself. It's like yourself, you know. You are young, you are accomplished, you know. It's like someone of a certain class system, someone who has something, they are well off, they have done well for themselves. I said, What? What? I ain't never heard this word. I was so thrown off. And then when I went to Nigeria to see my dad, I was talking with him and his friend, and you know, I said, Do you mind if I ask you what does do you know what the word akata means? Oh, yes, of course. It just it's like your father. Your father is in Akata. I said, How he lives here though? Yeah, it's someone who has left their home. They went to be successful, they have come back, you know, to take care of their families.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

So is it like like a multiple level? Is that what they're trying to do?

SPEAKER_02 44:29

But I'm like, wait, what? Exactly. And so when I told one of my friends this who is kind of just tired of the conversation, and I get it, because it's been had in communities for a long time, but it hasn't, you know, it's not taking a larger stage just yet. And I definitely would hope to do that. But like she she was like, you know, I'm just, it's just like, it's not negative or it is negative, and either way, we shouldn't, like, I'm not using it. So I'm just kind of getting tired. It's the same conversation. I said, I hear you, but let me tell you this. I told her those two things, those two stories, those two scenarios I just told you. She was like, wait, what? I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I said, exactly. And that is the point in the podcast. So that is the point of five minutes with a kata. Step literally, I can't stress it enough. I say this all the time. Step into my shoes. Step into my shoes and come walk with me on this journey that I've already taken. I just want to take everybody with me. And and see if you get to see if you arrive at the same place I've arrived in terms of what your understanding, in terms of your mentality, in terms of what you gather from having these conversations with different people that seemingly are the same. Some of these people are coming from. From the exact same communities and still yet have different, very different definitions. You know? And so that's a problem. That's it's kind of dangerous, right? Like we're all using words that we really we're using a word that we really don't understand the meaning of.

unknown 46:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:04

It can be sort of like slang or ebonics. Like you're you can make up your own slang, but if you go use that in another territory, another region, it may be something you don't want to say. It could end up being something bad for you. Man.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

And so, you know, like I said, it started off with irritation, then it just became obsession. And now I'm free. Now I feel freed. I'm having a ball, and no offense to you all. And I'm just like, and I'm just like, man, I'm just I'm excited because, you know, when I do these interviews, I'm a little more hopeful. I'm a little more hopeful when I hear people say, when I hear people answer the question, I ask the same three questions. I ask the same three questions. What does the word of kata mean? Have you heard it before? Two, why is there a division between African and African Americans? Three, how how are we the same? What's one thing that you find that's similar? And those answers are the most beautiful ones. Because you can see people, especially when you have some people who don't think we are. Right? You've got a lot of people who don't think we are, and that's okay. We are entitled to our opinion. And we are different. We do have a lot of differences. But my job is to hopefully show you that we've got some similarities, or at least to think about it. And if you you want to think about it for five seconds and that's it and go on with your life, I've done my job. But at least you thought about it for five seconds. And I've seen people who, you know, in person and on the podcast, nah, bro, we are so different, da da da da. And then after I had a conversation with them, like, yo, I didn't even think about it like that, bro. Like, dang.

SPEAKER_05 47:46

Man. Yeah. I have an inner Yeah. Oh, I was about to say I have an interesting question. And this is funny, because you get to talk to those people on your on your podcast, and you get to have these conversations. And of course, being being Nigerian and also having African-American cultural cultural roots, you get to see both sides. But isn't it interesting that there is a a gap between us when there is a majority culture that takes advantage of both of our cultures likewise without even giving any reason for difference? They don't care if you're black from the continent or if you're black in the diaspora. You're gonna get the same exact treatment no matter where you're coming from. Is that ever discussed? Like, does that ever come across in your discussions with family members or other Nigerians when you talk about, well, yeah, you may you may think y'all different, etc., but the people that run stuff really don't see any difference between us.

SPEAKER_02 48:46

Right. And it's not interesting. It's very much intentional, you know, unfortunately. I think it is extremely intentional. And have I had those, I've had those conversations with family, I think, as an adult now.

SPEAKER_01 48:58

It's hard to do, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:59

But growing up, no. Those, you know, you know what I mean? Like, no, you weren't necessarily having well, not even just that, but we've just been in this moment where people are being awakened to things. I'm refusing to say woke, but they've been made aware. We're awake to put our nose and awakened levels to woke, being woke anywhere it stops. Okay, come on now. And I I think what social media has done, and it and it's good and bad, within it's good and bad, what social media has done is it's forced different communities, different kind of niche people who just do this thing. It's literally collided everybody together to like have a window and a door into someone else's community and actually can come in and be a part of it. And so I think that's kind of why we're forced in a way to see, like, oh, I don't so so let me run it back. I do apologize. The same person that I was talking about before who was kind of tired of having this conversation about Akata, she also I interviewed her some years back. And when I asked the question of like, you know, do you guys understand like this, you know, how how do you feel about the black community, you know, about African Americans, how do you feel about social justice, things like that? And they were like, Well, I I'm gonna be honest, I don't, I don't get it. I don't get why there's this anger. This is a Nigerian talking. And this is years ago, by the way, who I don't think she subscribes to this mind. So give her some grace, guys. But she's like, I just don't get it. Like, I just don't understand why they are so angry and they're shouting, and there's this, you know, like I get what Martin Luther King did, but like today, like I don't understand why there's this struggle. Like, what are we struggling for? She's like, I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm Nigerian. I saw my parents struggle to get here, they didn't use any excuse, and they just decided to do what they had to do, and now we're here. Like, so I don't get it. Like, what are we shouting for? What is the struggle for? And that was the first time I ever heard that, and I was dumbfounded. But she was just saying what she saw. She was just only speaking from her experience. Like, you can't even you can't blame her. I'm glad that she got to a point where she's no longer thinking like that. And I bet she doesn't even remember that. I bet she doesn't even remember that conversation. She probably doesn't even know. It's cool. I got it though, you know, and I just and I think back to that's and that's why I say social media has done what it's done, is I think right now what's really interesting is everybody is kind of black. Like everyone's black, and everyone has uh there's an issue with being black, and so we all associate with that. And I feel like that can be that can be good and that can be a little bit bad. But I I say all that to say I think that it's taking social media and the younger generation to see what our parents couldn't see, or what's I would say what our some some of our parents could see, because I do think that my parents were thinking along this line. Um but what some of our parents couldn't see, which is that you know, Africans aren't here to steal jobs, and that's like a number one thing that we hear. And African Americans aren't lazy. And so I think these kind of general, broad statements that we have for either group, I think we have to get to the why. Like, I always think about that. Like, have have you really thought about why you think African Americans are lazy? Have you really thought about why you think Africans are lazy?

SPEAKER_05 52:58

That's a good that's a good question. I think some of that is based on uh Yeah, divide and conquer. I think some of it is based on I know I have I have very good have a very good Nigerian friend named uh Odie, Mr. Odudu, Mr. Odudu SCN, but uh he he we we've had this conversation before, and one of the things that we always get down to is the fact that for folk in the diaspora, there's that there's a feeling, uh, and I know for for him, his thing was we have a place to go back to. I actually have a home, I have a village, I know who my people are, I know where I'm going.

SPEAKER_01 53:32

Yeah, I heard that.

SPEAKER_05 53:33

We don't have one, and so it leaves us literally, it's like having a tree without roots. Where do you go back to draw your power from, your cultural understanding? For a lot of folk in the diaspora, we've had to create our own cultures, create new cultures, take take bits and pieces that we had from the old cultures and the old land and make it new to fit us here for survival in the new world. And that that being understood by peoples who have a place, and I'm gonna put it on the status of this. If you go to somebody, if somebody from China comes over here to study and they don't like the out, the outcome the place they're living at, they can always go home. For us, when we see Africans, especially coming from wherever they may come from Benin, you come from Namibia, wherever you come from, Uganda, when you come over here, you can get your study on, you can get whatever degrees you want. You don't have to stay here. You have citizenship back home. You can go home to your mother country, you have a mother tongue. We don't even have a mother tongue anymore. So that that breakup for us is extremely painful. And that's part of that issue where people don't understand the disadvantage or the trauma that comes along with that, not having your culture still be what it is. Even for people that come from, and this is outside of Africans, just any immigrant that comes to America, if you you have the ability to go back home. And I think that's one of uh a thing that is misunderstood and it creates a gap between us being able to communicate properly.

SPEAKER_02 55:02

I I I agree. I do agree with that. I agree with everything that you just said. I just also think that we should just all No, that's my big thing.

SPEAKER_05 55:11

Yeah, there's a why.

SPEAKER_02 55:12

Yeah, held bound. You know what I mean? We shouldn't be held bound by the why. We should be we should know the why and the why still. Because now it's our responsibility at this point. But but you know, my mind is going in so many directions right now with this because I decided to start doing Clubhouse conversations on this. Yeah, and I never wanted to. I despised Clubhouse. Yes, Clubhouse, I despised you, and I did not, I absolutely did not want to go on Clubhouse. I was like, uh, not another platform, it's just too much. And then, you know, I heard how divisive it was, especially when it came to hot button topics like this, that people are just being divisive, and you know, you've got all respect to people who I want to identify as not African-American, but like, you know, you've got a lot of people who don't want to identify as African-American. There's all these new terms and that people want to identify themselves as, and you know, you know, we've got to get reparations and you know, all this stuff. But hey, listen, I am not saying no to reparations, and I am also not saying you can't not call yourself African-American, but I kind of think you do yourself a disservice when you do. I've heard I've heard the arguments, but you know, I digress. That's why I didn't want to get on Clubhouse. So, but I decided to get on, and the very next week, I decided to just host my own room, and it lasted over an hour, and it was amazing, and I was so excited. And so some of the conversations that have come from that, I asked questions, and I would have a panel of people that come on with me. And we asked these type of questions. We have this, we it's kind of expanded through the podcast. It's longer than you know, five five minutes. And I think I just I named the group more minutes with the concept question part. But you know, a lot of the conversation that came from that is you, it's misconceptions that are happened all around. And again, why? Why are there misconceptions? And so then, you know, you've got African Americans who feel like Africans are just coming here and they don't realize that they have a benefit to what we had to struggle and don't even recognize the struggle, let alone recognize that we have a culture and all these other things. And I would often say that. Like, like I said, I'm often defending both sides. When I'm in a room, that's what you gotta do.

SPEAKER_03 57:48

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 57:48

You know, say that again, say it again.

SPEAKER_03 57:52

I said that's what you gotta do if you're trying to undo the othering. You know, like that's like if somebody's trying to split up these groups, you gotta start from like, what do we have in common? What's different? Why is it different? Because we're all sitting on this pale blue marble, just spinning around a bajillion miles a minute, going through space, like you know, at the end of the day, we all want our family to be happy, we want to be fed, we want to feel like it doesn't matter where you're from, we can all connect on that.

SPEAKER_02 58:21

Exactly. Bare bones, bare minimum, human being, drinking, speak the same language, human.

SPEAKER_06 58:27

Yeah, I wanted to add something to that, especially what Mike said, and I and the reason that this um conversation is so awesome is the fact we're starting to kind of get to like the root cause of a lot of pro, especially with this particular topic, the root cause of a lot of problems that we have with our society and with the world as a whole when it comes to differences. And sometimes when you have differences, we think about, we've been conditioned to think about differences based on inferiority versus superiority, right? So it's like, because by nature, we're just like by nature, we're trained to like our minds biologically, we're supposed to be discriminatory, right? So when you go out in the woods, okay, this is an apple, this is a crab apple, right? I eat the apple, I don't eat the crab apple because why? The apple's healthy for me, which is superior, and the crab apple is not healthy for me, it'll just be very sour and is inferior, right? So, evolutionary speaking, we've had we've we you know we've kind of developed that way. However, as the world has gotten more complex and society's gotten more complex, we still struggle with those same issues because a lot more of the issues we have, there's really not that much of a difference when it comes to people or culture. However, the powers that be have figured out, okay, well, we can divide and conquer, or we can manipulate people because we can weaponize certain characteristics or attributes. Or let's say, like, and this is one of the things I notice a lot of too, is you'll see, especially on social media, and I'm glad you brought this up earlier, you'll always see, like, okay, this person from this particular country started this app, right? It could be fill in whatever country, right? And you'll notice that a lot of the people who like it are usually those people from that particular country, right? Especially when it comes to a lot of like the, I guess you would say, a lot of like the different like blogs or posts throughout the diaspora, like the different like people who post content. But one of the things is it's like in a way we don't realize it, and even this happens if in the African American community too. It's like we weaponize success and we allow it to be weaponized. So it's like if this person over here is a gym is Jamaican, right? And they come up with this amazing app, it's not that it's a good app because it's for the betterment of mankind, right? There are people who sometimes look at it like, okay, yeah, you know Jamaicans, you know how we do, we always are putting our thing down, right? I don't know about anybody else, right? And I'm not picking on them, right? Or any other group, but especially when it comes to diaspora and in our communities, we tend to do that to each other. And I noticed that a lot, even with the big thing, and I know you're familiar with this, even with the big thing when it comes down to act with Hollywood and black actors portraying roles of different characters throughout the diaspora, and they might not be a member of that particular culture. And that's like, for example, like what's the movie? Like with like with the Martin Luther King movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:32

Selma.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:34

Yeah. And you know, in the conflicts when it comes to those things, right? Because it's like, you know, people feel like if it's not them representing, or even better, what just recently happened a couple of months ago with Michael B. Jordan. And this has nothing to do with acting. This is more like this questions online, it's a cultural appropriation. But when he tried to create that new drink, the one that took the Caribbean name, and you remember the especially the Trinity community, Trinidadian community, was really in arms about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:05

I think some of this is like like just like ongoing ambient culture of imperialism and colonialism, and and like that that era kind of just infected everybody with this idea that it's like it's about us and fuck everybody else.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:23

I mean, I think those those ideals definitely have affected us. We're all conditioned, period. Like whether we want to be or not. And so I think once you realize that you are, I think you should do yourself a service to try and condition yourself to the best of your ability, to the best of the human ability. I do think uh so I've heard different sides of this argument, and it kind of bleeds into another thing that I actually would love to talk about and ask you guys. I know I'm I'm the guest, but I love to ask people this question. You know, I think some people would just say, well, acting is acting, you know what I'm saying? If the person did a good job, the person did a good job. And I'm here for that, totally. I do think that you should try to exhaust your options though. I do think you should try to find, you know, did you did you really look to find someone that could play MOK from an African American community? And I live, I love David Yellow, also I have no problem with the guy at all. I I I think he did a great job. And I think it's also, like you just said, like it is the conditioning of how Hollywood works. It's who you know, and it wasn't even a matter of, you know, they might have been thinking of different things. They might have been thinking, you know, hey, I would love for you to play this part because I really think that it would be a way where we could bridge black British actors, you know, to like there might be so much more that there's a lot of commodity.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:55

That's what people don't get. It's easier to get to him to get him in, and you know what you're gonna get, you know the quality of the you see what I'm saying? Part of this product.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:04

Right. So back to the simple basic skill of acting. It's acting at the end of the day. And so some people feel like, well, if I can do the role, I can do the role, period. Doesn't really matter where I'm from. And I think there's a good point to that. I do think that we should do our best, you know, because if we I think I think we should do our best to make sure that people are portraying the role as authentically as they can. And if that means to also cast from that, to cast the the real actor that is from the same place as the cult, as the as the character, that would be great. You know, I don't think it's always a must, but I do think it's it is important because it get back it gets back to that conversation of well, they're coming here and stealing our job. Yeah because we know that that's not true. No one's coming, well, I sorry, some people still very much feel like that, so I don't want to invalidate people's opinion.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:59

Well, sometimes Dick Gregory would say uh the truth does not need to be validated by ignorance. So it's the truth, man. Like, we know that's not the case. It's like when people say we're we're saying Mexicans are coming to steal jobs. No, no one's doing those jobs, those tomatoes are dying in the fields.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:16

Yeah. Because some of the things that, and you know, we have really, right, right. And some of the things that, you know, that we've talked about in my clubhouse rooms is that like, yo, like, I actually came here with degrees.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:31

I didn't come here with like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:33

I came here with degrees, I did the job and they sought out, applied for the meeting and they brought me over. And they, right, right. And so I you know, and into the uh, you know, I don't want to sound too conflicting or contradicting here, but at the same time, I do think that well, let me finish my first point, which is that we do, we should try our best to hire those who are, yes, best for the job in terms of skill and talent, but who can best portray and have some type of relation to this character in terms of their ethics.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:08

It usually comes comes across in the in the actual performance.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:12

If you actually have a well, there's there's deeper things to that character that that you might not know about. Right. Like the gentleman who played um, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:23

Well well st well, you don't know the the the exact you don't you don't know the particular experience.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:28

Right, which is tired, but that's what acting is, but you might want to get coached.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:33

Yeah, a violent. What's the movie um in particular? I had a young brother in it, um, good lord, who played in Get Out. He was playing um a man from the Black Panthers who good Lord, I can't say his name. This is horrible. Um I know, right? Um I'm horrible. I'm horrible. I had to do it. I was trying to say that it's not he did a great job. He did a phenomenal job. And he was like the only non quote unquote FBA, non-FBA in there, but he did a great job. And it was good to have him in that in that um role. And another reason why I say that, yeah, Daniel.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:10

Yeah, Daniel Kalola. I believe I'm pronouncing it the left, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:14

Um I don't want to put ourselves in a position where we where you hurt yourself trying to become so pure, because like I want to have a black James Bond. I want Idris Elba to be James Bond. I'm not trying to get us out of that race, you know what I'm saying? So, like, there's certain things where I think it is important, and and like you said, I think mainly being seen just like biopics, those those are the ones where that's important. But elsewhere, like, please hire the best talent. Cause I'm a merit based person, I love merit based um movement. Like, I I don't want people to get a position just based off of nepotism or you have the color or the creed for something. I want the best person in it. Um, because that's what actually creates a more honest and equal society. And I know we were just having a conversation with one of our friends, the lawyer, about the fact that in law you can't you have to have a balance between morals and also legal, because to go all one way, one way or the other, you're gonna put yourself in a hurt position when you fall in a position where you now need the benefit of the doubt. And so Yeah, man, I think you I think you have to have it both ways.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:26

Yeah, and and and so to to the other point, you know, one of the one of the things that I was sharing on my in the clubhouse rooms is that I saw my parents in the same field, they're both social workers, climb the same type of ladder. And granted, my dad did decide to go on and get his master's, but I believe you know, if I'm not mistaken, um hearing this from both of them, if I'm not mistaken, if if childhood memory serves right, they, you know, before getting his master's, my dad was still afforded more opportunities than my mom. And so there is some degree of conditioning there where I think personally Europeans who set the standard for not just America but this globe, they have set a global standard. As much as we don't want to acknowledge that, a lot of we a lot of nations are looking to how Europeans have set certain standards, whether robbed or not. But they look at foreigners, black foreigners, as smarter and better than African Americans and blacks in this country. And so while I'm not saying they're here to steal jobs, I personally do think that when they see, and this is up for argument, and this is the kind of the conversation we would have on Clubhouse that went on for almost over two hours. This, you know, when they see a resume that comes a white person sees a resume that comes across their desk, they see a Nigerian name, they're automatically thinking, boom, they're smart. Like automatic. And there's there's there's some there's something to speak to, you know, their education system, I think outside of America, the education systems outside of America are very rigorous. There are a lot of people who it is a is it is a fact that people come here and are often higher than their age group. You know, my brother was um born here, my oldest brother was born and raised here, but when he went to Nigeria for 10 years and came back, he was above his like grade, basically, like his regular class.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:45

Yeah, we fucked up.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:46

And so that can be a struggle too. And if you make it a special system, he's a little bit ahead.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:51

Those educational trials were there, and you're able to get here, they know it's the cream of the crop. That's another thing. Because I know this from dealing with recruiters, you aren't sending the work over the city.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:01

But to the point though, but that's the but what I don't like though is that again, that's still a general generalized you're generalizing stuff. No, no, no, no, no, not in that sense.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:11

What I'm saying is based on like based on the little statistic little literal statistics, you can't it's expensive, first of all, to get a good education and at the same time to achieve the ability to be able to be up for an opportunity elsewhere outside the country, it's gonna be a bit harder to do. So usually what you have, and this is a big thing that's going on right now, this is outside of Africa, but dealing with Iranian scientists, there's a large group of female Iranian scientists that are going out throughout the world, getting all the jobs, picking everything up, and they're like, yo, how is this happening? Well, in Iran, they have a system where they are producing and attempting to educate their female population and all-STEM programs. And look, this is this is what I'm saying. This is an actual item, this is something that's actually happening. And it is awesome. And when people see this, they're like, Well, they just come to stealing jobs. I'm like, no, they are good at what they do. That's right, there you go. It's intentions.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:09

They're being intentional, yeah. But that's but that's still different from my point. I hear you, and I'm cool with that, but that's still different than my point of just kind of this blanket, like, okay, great, we're going to like I'll be honest with you. I think that there are privileges that we all have. We've all got privileges. And I think that sometimes when you're talking about hiring, when you see two resumes, if you see, if you see Tanya Jones versus I don't know. I'm trying to think of a, you know, I'm just gonna use my like Tolu or Diggy Zula. You're gonna be like, oh, Tolu might, she might fit the bit. Like before you even meet them, because you're already thinking, well, they probably came from this educator, before you even look through the resume and da-da-da. You're already conditioned to think before you even interview the person. That's what I'm saying. That's the conditioning we have to undo. And and if I'm if we're honest with ourselves, we all are doing it. I I really do think that we do that. I'm not, especially those who aren't black, I'm saying. Yeah, because those in power is what I'm saying. Like those in power that are making that decision, let's be real, you're you're doing that. And so, you know, I've I saw my dad kind of climb up a little faster than my mom because of that. Because it's like assumed, like, well, I mean, and part of it too, I think is you gotta be smart and you're Nigerian. Okay, great. Yeah, yeah. Like, what if he's not though? And what I'm saying is give, at least give, yeah, go into it, blanket. And maybe you realize my mom's name is Sonia. Oh, you know what? Sonia is actually smarter than he folks. Like, just go in, like, blanket, you don't know. You know, we all are conditioned, we all our brains categorize. We like to put things in boxes and figure it out just based on what we're seeing. We do judge by the cover often. Because it's human nature to do, but we still have to do the work to undo that as much as humanly possible to be like, okay, wait, no, let me give this a fair chance.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:09

And you're right, I have a question for you. Do you think some of it is based on and this is this I want to understand, because you have both perspectives. Some of some of it, I think, is based on the fact when you when you know it's an African American, right? You know that there is a there's a certain amount, especially when you're looking at against somebody who's from the continent, you're looking at it, that person has a certain background, history, and understanding that may make them hostile to you. I e they they've been through, you see what I'm saying? That baggage doesn't come with that person from the continent. So I can deal with them in a different way than I would this African American.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:45

Oh, that's such a good point. That's such a great point. That's an unfortunate one. That's unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:52

That's can you say it again? Right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:58

That's a very good point. That's a very good point. And I also want to note, I also want to note though, within these conversations that I'm having, I'm having on Clubhouse, I've heard, you know, people will come on and say, well, you know, as an argument to what I just said, you know, well, a lot of people aren't realizing that, and I said it before, but I just want to make it clear that a lot of people are actually, a lot of Nigerians are coming here with the degrees. And to get to America or, you know, just to get to another country is very tough. Like you just said with the young ladies from where is exactly. So, like that there is, I am not, I just want to make it clear that I am not not, I don't want to not acknowledge that there is a struggle still, even for Nigerians trying to get employed. I just want to make that point. That is that's not my point.

unknown 1:15:53

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:53

So I just want to make that clear. I just want to make that clear. I know that there is quite the journey to even get employed here, to get here, let alone get employed here. Like there's that's a two, that's a two-sided, you know, sword, if you will, or two-edged sword.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:09

So I think, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:16

If I'm honest, I think that, and I'm gonna be real, I'm gonna just be real with y'all. I do think that my name gives me some privilege.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:23

How is it understanding that and being in your in your in your life? I think it does. And I'm gonna be business you work and knowing that, having that actuality. How does how do you how do you move about through it? Do you feel do you feel guilt?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:37

No, not at all. You use what you have to be fair for other people. And so when I'm when I have these conversations, what do I the first thing I say, these are house rules. You're in this room. I would really appreciate if I challenge you even to not be so quick to have your rebuttal or have your points or have like just listen. I actually challenge you to listen to someone else. And so I'm a very, I like to think that I'm very fair. So when I walk into spaces, I try to be very fair. And I try to think, and I and I it's hard to do, like.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:15

I just try to be very fair.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:16

I try to be very fair, and I try it is hard to do, but when you start trying, it gets better. Exactly. When you practice something, you know, tennis was probably well, maybe it wasn't hard for a scene of Venus and it probably wasn't. It was just beastly with it. But but I'm sure they the way they play now is no way that they could play when they were younger. Yes, it is of course it's hard, but if you keep at it, what it becomes easy, or easier, you know. So I I think I like to think that like even with the projects that I'm working, as an end of I'm indie, very indie. They would like to help in terms of any type of way. Speaking to yes, you we gonna talk. I I literally am thinking about it. So funny that you said that. I'm really thinking about it because these conversations go longer than five minutes, bro. Okay. These like these conversations have gone to almost an hour to the point where I'm not sure. Why did you just start with five minutes? So I started with five minutes because dang, I feel like we're jumping around. I started with five minutes because I knew as a PA and as a freelancer, I have to be available. I have to be available, I have to jump around, and I don't have the bandwidth to be sitting and listening to hours long of audio and editing, and I'm doing the managing, I'm doing the promoting, I'm doing the booking, I'm doing all of it. So I I can't, I gotta be smart about my resources. And that's why I did the podcast in the first place because I was like, I want to be done with podcasts, I want to be done with audio, radio, all that. I want to go straight into film and video. But then I was like, man, but I still want to be working on this project while working on other people's work for the time being. And I was like, man, maybe I should just do my own podcast. I have to be short if I do do it. I was like, what should I how should I do this? So honestly, it's it's convenience. Honestly, it's convenience and not just convenience, it's it's kind of like a public study, yeah. Yeah, it's like a public case study. It's public for people to kind of see, and I'm very intentional about like who I ask and where they're from, what area they're from, because like again, with the conditioning, depending on your environment, like you said earlier, like this is how certain people think from Baltimore typically. This is how certain people think from Oregon typically. This is how certain people, you know, so it's that's why I'm like, let me talk to Nigerians from kind of a little bit all over, and I'm not done. Yeah, you know what I mean? We got more seasons to go, yay, yay. But you know, it's like, what can I really do with my resources? Can I really achieve this within a five-minute um block? Can I really do this? It's ambitious. So that's why I only ask three questions. It honestly, even the three questions. I done boy, sometimes I can only do two.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:12

Sometimes I can only do two. And then there were even some episodes where I had to do part one, part two, because it got so good. Like, I'm telling you, they'd be hours long, and I have to, I really have to time this thing. Like, I'm so sorry we have to wrap this up, or making the extended versions available on Patreon. So I'm thinking about it, my brother. I heard, I heard you, I heard you.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:30

These are cultural conversations, they don't they don't end in the interview, they don't end in our generation. This is this is the ongoing thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:37

But but at the same time, I know my generation. And my gener like my generation is me, and attention span is like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:44

Like five minutes is kind of like golden, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:47

Exactly. And I know I'm no, okay, who am I? I ain't nobody, I ain't nobody that's gonna be like, I can't listen to your like, what? Don't nobody know me. So this is a quick five-minute, I can convince you to listen to five minutes, and you're like, oh, okay, oh man, that was good. Now you want to listen to the next five.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:03

Nah, um, I always like to say, man, that that Joe Rogan school of how to cut up your podcast snippets. I think everybody should go to it. Go ahead and get you some law format, but put put snippets out. Snippets are excellent. And I just, I guess, um, ending on the top of talking about what we were just delving into, before we finish up, we do still want to know about your work in the film industry, what you're gonna be doing, getting back into actually doing film and producing there, and how you're gonna balance your work in your life with actually trying to go back into doing film.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:37

Honestly, people are not gonna like my answers. You know, I I am I'm actually in the process of starting a uh, and I know that it won't run right now, but starting the legal work for um a small production company called Unpopular Productions because I've been unpopular my entire life. Like I said, I have a rejection cast, but it's all good. And I recognize my space in that being unpopular is not always unfortunate, and I really enjoy it. I enjoy it. I enjoy who I am. I enjoy that I'm quirky and and and somewhat awkward and sarcastic and all these things, and so I'm creating that space so that people can do that there too. And I, you know, this is a very unpopular thing to say, and most things that I say are probably gonna be unpopular. Oh no, right? Once upon a time, these convers these conversations were once upon a time unpopular, so you know, having these clubhouse conversations really, really, really poured so much hope into me.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:42

Like you're brave too. You're brave for doing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:44

I recorded them, and I was like, yo, you guys don't know how much I'm so excited to like hear you guys say that you guys want unity too. Like, I've been at this for a long time, and I never get anyone that's as enthusiastic as they're just like, yeah, all right, girl, bye. Like, they people don't even like people don't even want to have that conversation. But the fact that people are like, yo, I have a project about unity too. Me too, me too. I'm like, wait, what? Where were you? Like, what? Let's get together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, let's do it. Like, let's get together right now. Let's do it. So I'm just like, really, it really excited me and it brought it put a lot of hope into me that this can be achieved, that unity could be achieved. And so that is one thing that I'm definitely doing is that having larger conversations, you know, in bigger spaces with more people. And I think it's really, really important before I get to that unpopular statement. I think it's really important to talk to everyday people. I think I used to have a program called Royal ID where I used to um interview celebrities and like Christian artists and hip hop artistic hip-hop artists and stuff like that. And that was great. But I really enjoy just regular people because I I think sometimes we get kind of boggled. And as a producer, you know, you gotta get the bring the expert on. You gotta get the expert that can talk about da-da-da-da-da-da-da. But it's just like that's invalidating people who are still very much a part of this issue or conversation, even though they might not have stats and numbers and facts, like, you know, and sometimes I would feel like that. Like, dang, like, I don't really have the stats on that particular thing. Maybe I should look. And then you feel like, man, well, I gotta go and do all this study, all this study. And it's just like, I am the study, especially because like I'm the study, and I don't want to invalidate, I don't want people to feel like they can't enter a room, you know, because it it can get like that in these clubhouses. Like, you get a lot of people intellectuals who I love intellectuals, I'm around them all the time. But I don't want people to feel like, well, I don't really know what to say because you know, that person, they brought this to the table. What do you have to say about your experience? Because at the end of the day, people are the you are the numbers behind the numbers, behind the facts. You are the number. So you are validate, you I I love to bring people to the table who feel like they don't have nothing to say. Like I love, I love doing that. So I just had to say that. Like, I love in interviewing everyday people, not just celebrities all the time. And so uh look at me, getting all excited to get my point. My my unpop my um my unpopular the unpopular statement I was gonna say is that rest is really important. I remember I did, I burnt out around like talk about it. I think when I was part-time, like around when I was um part-time at the radio station before, and then I was also a grad student or something, or maybe even a little before that, but I was like, man, this whole don't get no sleep and grind. I don't think I'm about this. I just don't work for me. Because one, my mental, I was like, my mental was reaping havoc. Like I felt it, like I was like, something is it's not good for my brain, not just my body, but my brain is exhausted. And being an introvert slash extrovert, I need space to just like blah. Like, don't think, don't speak, don't do nothing. Just let my brain breathe. And so it's so funny how now everybody's just like, make sure you get your rest, make sure you have a therapist, make sure you're in on that, yo. Like, nah, this I already knew this wasn't for me. So that's what I would say is rest. Put rest first. I put rest first and I put relationships first. I think sometimes we put relationships to the wayside and think, nah, we gotta grind, grind, grind, grind, grind. And I've looked back on my life and beyond, especially recently. I'm like, man, maybe I should have been more focused on this, you know, in terms of percentages. Like, maybe, you know, maybe I was focused on relationships a little too much. Like maybe it should have been a little more, you know, 80-20 and stuff. You know, I would I'm looking at it like that. And then, you know, I'm reading this book that reminded me that relationships are super important. And I'm like, oh, you know what? No, I'm gonna keep relationships. Because at the end of the day, that's the work that we're doing is a reflection and for is for people. It's for people. And so if we're doing the work and always on social media and living our lives on social media, like, you know, I'm not trying to be mean, but like if it was about the money, I wouldn't, I would, I'll, if I was really about the money, bro, I would be rich by now. I would have grinded, and I'm a hard, I can be, I can go into that mode of hardworking. I would have grinded the the the mess out of every position that I had. I would have, you know, worked out every network. Like, I don't, I'm not, I don't subscribe to networking personally. Like, make genuine relationships. And and when it when it clicks, run with it. And when it don't, that's okay. Don't force it. Don't like, all right, who's gonna be here at this event? This is exactly who I want to talk to. I mean, it's okay to be strategic. It's okay to be like, okay, I really would like to have a conversation with this person, but don't be like, all right, this person is gonna be da-da-da. And then, you know, just you know, it's it's interesting. Like, I I have, I'm not gonna say where, but I had that experience this summer at a production, and people are like, oh, I'm here to network because I want to meet.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:03

Why are you here?

SPEAKER_02 1:28:04

And I was like, I'm here to work. It was crazy. I was like, everybody was saying it, bro. Everybody. I was like, I'm here to work. Like, I'm I'm literally here to work. I'm here to work, and this is a perfect opportunity to reintroduce myself back into film production, you know what I'm saying? And I don't subscribe to to networking, I do it in my own way. I guess people will argue, like, yes, you do, you do it, you just do it differently. I'm like, but I'm not thinking about it, you know what I'm saying? And I rest, and in terms of the question of balance, I rest and I make sure I put relationships first, and then that propels me to be able to do the work. So that's how I balance, and that's that's what I would advise other people trying to, especially trying to get into this business. But every filmmaker is probably shooking. Oh no, she did not just say that.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:53

No, no, no, no, no, no. Let's let's be like, creative work is energy work, and it doesn't matter if you're feeding the body and sleeping the right amount, you gotta do other stuff to recharge yourself, and you got nothing to put back out. Very true.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:05

Yep. So can I ask my question? I never asked it. Of course. I'm so sorry, listeners. Welcome to Yori's brain. This is where I be at.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:15

Sounds familiar. Sounds like being company, guys. We tend to be a little bit sporadic.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:23

So this is a heavy hitter. I asked this question Clubhouse as well. And I'm no, I'm not even gonna do that to you. I was gonna say it's part two. I'm not even gonna do that to you. We can do a different, we can do it offline. But do who do you think should be able to use the word? Word or identify themselves as black? Like in America.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:50

That's a good question. Yeah, this is a man. Yeah, so like sip your tea, sip your tea.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:58

No, I'm playing. I'm waiting. I'm waiting. I didn't mean sip tea as in as negative. I forgot that that's always like associated with like gossip. I just meant I'll wait.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:08

So uh like I don't I don't know if you can tell, but I'm quite melanin deficient. I'm quite melanin-deficient. Wow. No, that was hilarious. My wife considers herself black, but her her grandmother is actually Cherokee. So she's about my complexion, but her features are you know pretty African. And then we got a son who, you know, is interesting. This is this is another one of those things that gets a little weird for people, but like I really believe in most cases, if if the woman of the house is black, that is.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:50

That's funny.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:51

And you know, she's the oldest of um six kids. And so we've had one, two, three, four. We we've had we've had like four of her siblings living with us at different points in time. And I don't think walking into a job interview my son would ever be mistaken for black. But I do not I'm not a fan of white culture. I don't know that white culture is actually. Yes, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:18

But but like, you know, that's I hear you. I got the ultimate privilege because I'm just inhabiting these atoms, they ain't even mine. Yeah, I gotta give them back in a little bit. You didn't ask for it. So like it's a good point. It's it's a hard one to think because Yeah. Now when you ask that question, are you thinking more of in like complexion-wise, or in like whether you consider yourself African American or black? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:49

The latter. But it's very interesting that you bring up the former. Right. I think that's really, really interesting. That's a whole nother aspect of the thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:57

Yeah, because the thing is, I think a lot of people don't it's it's a cultural thing because technically, you ain't black. You ain't a color, right? That's what I tell people like you aren't black. Black refers to a culture that was created outside of Africa by the people in that in the diaspora, wherever they may be at. And that's how I see it as you know, as a person who's part of the diaspora. I see it as a culture. That's why if you if you see a lot of black folk, especially in media and whatnot, whenever they talk about black, nowadays they've actually been replacing the word if you've been paying attention to it over the past like five to seven years with culture. So it's like, I'm doing it for the culture. This is about the culture. We're representing the culture. And what they're referring to is black, blackness. That's what they're referring to as the culture. They aren't referring to a specific region, uh, tribe, country, anything like that. They're just referring to a culture, and that can encompass anybody that feels that they're a part of that culture, which is interesting. And I do think some of it may have to deal with, like, in my opinion, some of it may be with your with your amount of melanation, but at the same time, yeah, people say say you were you were raised by a black family, and you're not a melanated individual. What do you really consider yourself? You see what I'm saying? In my opinion, you're black.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:15

I was just gonna say that to his I was just gonna say to that to his point. But see what you see how we're saying, but you're black. You know how you know that's an outside defection.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:26

That's that's like saying, like, no matter what, no matter what group you're a part of, always black.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:31

It's a it's not a it's not a what's the thing? It's that was good, it's not a phenotypical description or or assessment, in my opinion. I don't think it has anything to do with phenotype.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:45

So then when we say I'm black and I'm proud, you're you're saying that I'm a part of this culture.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:49

Like when James Brown, when James Brown was saying it, he was referring to a culture and the music that he was producing. Now, now hold on now. Let me let me say here for the second one.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:01

Which culture was he saying which culture was he saying?

SPEAKER_05 1:34:03

He was responding to the culture that was created out of those people that were a part of the diaspora. For his particular folks, it's folks from South, because he came from South Carolina. His people, you know, quote unquote, because it's weird to call them African Americans now.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:17

It's weird, but well, and how how fast do white people drop Irish American attacks? That's my point.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:22

They drop it quickly and they become a part of white culture. It's a thing. It's called white culture.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:28

I don't know that it actually is, though. I think there's an imperialist culture, and then there's like all these other people that think that they're outsiders. Like, like America is made up of a lot of people that think we're all outsiders.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:39

That's that's what the the funny thing is. It's it's hilarious. That's funny. But there's a there's a culture connected to it.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:48

So I don't know how much. I mean, I mean, we have time. If you got time, I know um we we are, yeah. If you got something to say, please say it. I got something to say.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:57

Okay, okay, real quick, real quick. Again, an unpopular thought, an unpopular opinion. And I am always ready to be corrected. I am always to say I am wrong. I am always ready to be debunked. I am not proud and anywhere. Like, you say what?

SPEAKER_03 1:35:14

What is it? Uh I'm I'm here to uh get it right, not be right.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:18

You know what I'm saying? So this is my opinion right now. This is how I feel. I feel like it is important to as much as I am for unity all day. That is my mission, that is the whole point in my projects, in the student project, and turned it to the documentary, and turned it to the short, and now it's a podcast, and hopefully you can film at your local theater. But like that is the point. Unity. That is 100% the point. I do think, and which is beautiful because I hear this in in the clubhouse conversations, which is that, and I'll even say really quickly, some of the solutions that they said to bridging the gap is engaging one another more, intentionally doing that, educating our child each other about our background, about our history, about our struggle, so we know and we can walk into spaces, knowing, like, oh, right, like this is why this is happening because XYZ and still acknowledging our differences. So acknowledging our similarities are high priority for me in bridging the gap. But that does not exclude looking at our differences. And so I think that it's really important for African Americans to have what they have because we our ancestors worked very hard to scrap up and create what we have that is now influencing the globe. So I do think when you're talking globally, I think it's perfectly fine to be like, okay, black people. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But you know, for instance, in the one of the clubhouse conversations, someone said, like, the we had the comp first, we have I asked the question, who can say black? And then it it pretty much came to any anyone that is melanated because when you go to London and you say black people, I guess you know, they think about black people in London. So I was like, okay, that's a good point. I get it. But there is this shared experience that we have here in America, and it's different, others don't. There is a shared stuff, which is always you know bad, but just the good, like you know, like you already know what's gonna happen at Thanksgiving, like certain things that is our culture, there's certain things that are from us, and that is black. And so I think that in in the two, the two part, that's why I was like, do we got time? The two part is the two part is say it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:53

Say it.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:53

I'm gonna say it. Do it. That's all right. People gonna throw some stones at me. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:58

We in a we in a space of understanding.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:01

So I'm not gonna lie, I'm definitely like, should I really say this? I'm gonna do it though. I'm gonna do it. I'm a man, I'm a woman up, I'm a woman up. So I think that and I'm perfectly fine with having conversations with people who feel otherwise. I think that Black History Month should be reserved for African Americans in this country, for the progress that's been made for black people in America. If we want to have the conversation of like, hey, let's delegate the last day, or let's delegate the last week, or let's kind of delegate this kind of this one kind of selected moment where we can talk about other black cultures in America that has contributed. And the reason I say that is because I very much think that our forefathers did that. And I'm gonna get this wrong, I'm not a history buff. So for all my, you know, for the people that are waiting to hear this. We lived, we lived this stuff. We lived this, like we literally had to learn our history, had to learn this stuff, which is great because we needed that in Portland. Like otherwise, I wouldn't have known it outside of what my mom was sharing. But you know, I believe it's Jane Wilden Johnson. I believe who I I I know he has a brother. There's James and John, I think, and I think one wrote the song, lift up your voice and singing. I believe the other one created the Black History week. It was a week that later extended to the month. And I do think what they had in mind was hey, in order to um create and continue a pride in our people, we have to acknowledge the strides we've made. We have to acknowledge the good we have. And the we I'm talking about are the ones who have done the work and the ones who have come from that work. That's really important. And so I am not, it's it's not a point of excluding people, but it's a point of making sure we preserve our history and we preserve what's been done here because we've seen over and over again, they saw, they foresaw, like, hey, if we don't preserve our history, they definitely don't throw it out the window because they're already doing it. I'm sure they saw it happening all around them. And so it is not to say that we shouldn't think about, you know, of course I'm not gonna think of all the names now, but like certain people who are not from directly from slaves, but were born and raised here in America. Maybe you're Nigerian, you came here, and then you know, you had you, you know, you're a descendant of that, and they're a history maker. I think there is a space for that. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I do think just as much as other countries have independence days and they have moments where they're proud to be where they're from, we have to have that. And I think our ancestors were fighting for that. And so I think it should be preserved for that. And it can't if this conversation came up at a at one of my one of my jobs, and I kind of I was like, yeah, I kind of think maybe we can highlight a few people, that's cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:05

But it's it's black American history month.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:08

It's gotta, you know, only only because we don't have. We don't have. When people keep telling us we don't have and we know we do, and so that's that's when I get frustrated, like, but we do have, but we keep getting told that we don't. And now you're trying to take the little that we got.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:25

It's just like, I don't I don't like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:27

I don't like that. So just as much as I'm excited on October 1st for Nigerian Independence Day, it's just as much as I'm like, all right, well, this is reserved for African Americans.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:36

I think that's pretty simple. I will interject and say this because I know it was Carter G. Wilson uh Woodson who created uh Negro History Week. And that's and that's the that's the brilliant. No, but that's the point that was so important with that week because it was called Negro History Week. It wasn't called Black History Week or Black History Month. It was Negro for a reason because there's a quote that goes with it. It says if a race has no history, it has no worthwhile tradition, it becomes a negligible factor in the thought of the world, and it stands in danger of being exterminated. The American Indian left no continuous record. He did not appreciate the value of tradition. Where is he today? This is where it gets crazy. And it I know, but you know, at the time they were thinking about and it also says the Hebrew keenly appreciated the value of tradition, as is attested by the Bible itself, in spite of worldwide persecution. Therefore, he is a great factor in our civilization. So, like you said, the reason why it was created was to make sure you don't get to that, yo. You don't want to be erased.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:37

Yeah. Not after all the hard work, what? That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:41

Not after all the hard work, not after you've been stripped of what you were like. You were stripped of everything. And then you still came out and created something phenomenal, and now it's influencing the globe, and it's being called pop, and it's just playing, and it's just whatever. It's like, uh, you're best recognized.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:02

I tell black people all the time. We gotta take our culture and treat it and treat it how other cultures do, where they literally you have to pay to use their culture. Like you can't just become no Japanese taiko drummer, it's out of no out of nowhere. No, you have to go and follow the masses, go to the teachers, pay your dues, go through the proper processes.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:17

You know, I did not know that. It's creepy. Interesting.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:19

It's because they I remember David Banner made a good point on this. He says, if you don't value your culture, who else are you expecting to value it but you? There, you don't put a price tag on it. You give it out for free, i.e., freestyles and all this other stuff. You just go out here and blah, blah, blah, out here with it, but you don't assign a value. And when you don't have any return from that, you can't wonder why you created that circumstance. And I agree that that's more than more than certain why he created that. Man. It's not. It's what everybody else got.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:50

Like we've been, like, that's what we were doing. Like, why does it need to change per se? Like, you know what I mean? It's like, wait, what? Like, yes, there change needs to happen. Change 100% needs to happen, but yeah, you don't just throw everything like, no, come on, now, like, come, come on. I don't, I don't I personally don't think that I get like I said, I've heard other arguments and I and I get the point. So maybe it's a conversation of like, all right, on this last week, we are now. You know what I'm saying? Because other folks have come here to this country and they have assimilated to the country and they have contributed. They 100% have. And so I'm not saying to neglect them. It's just like that's not what the forefathers created this for. That's all I'm saying. So maybe we can think about some amendment there on the last week or the last day or something. You know what I mean? But let's stay focused on what this was, the vision. The intent. Let's stay focused on the vision. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_05 1:44:41

Uh man, I'm telling you, man, this is a great conversation. I know we're we're at, we're almost about to get to that two-hour mark. So I do want, I want to make sure that we get your information in and that you let our folks know what you're working on, what we can look forward to seeing from you, and where can we find you at? And make sure you tell them out and any cash apps, etc., that you got on out here so that they can follow up and help our sister out. Yes. Where do you want me to send us to pull it up? Pull it up.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:09

First and foremost, I would say you can probably for this particular project, you can follow me at um akatafilm.com. That's a k-a-t-a-f-i-l-m at uh akatafilm.com. And you know, my podcast is there. The short film information is there, and anything else that comes out of that, when you subscribe to that, I'm always sending out newsletters and letting people know what's happening with that through that source. You can find me on my personal. I don't have any social media for the project just yet because this is a lot of work. Y'all, y'all know that. I'm gonna be honest with a whole lot of work. And I can, you know, I could totally try and you know do the whole social media stuff for this brand, but that would that wouldn't be wise to the very thing that I was talking about when it comes to rest. Like, I'm not even gonna stretch myself like that. So my personal Instagram is royal underscore ID. R-O-Y-A-L underscore I D. That's Instagram and then my name.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:15

Hey. There we go. So your AL thank you so well. Excellent, excellent.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:21

Yeah, please, please, let's get this up here. And then also, you know what we gotta do too? We gotta make sure we get her the information so she can get that Hillman game, man, from Queen. Now, because you're gonna love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:32

Oh, no, no, that's so funny because that's actually one of the things that I want to do. I want to start a game for this.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:38

Yes, you do need to talk to me. She's got like all over the country. A little squad of game makers.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:48

I would love to, and I already know the illustrators.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:50

Wow, see since you already come on. Yeah, we can get them in contact.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:54

Let's go. I'm down for that. So the Cash App now, all right. Let's not forget Yori Yori. So Dollarson Y-O-R-E, Y-O-R-E.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:04

And we will make sure we get this information up um as well when we uh get everything ready for uh promotion and of the of the episode when it gets ready to come out. But uh any other questions, Mike, for our our guests today? Oh, I got so many things I want to talk about. We're gonna have to get back up. We're gonna have to have a part two. We're gonna get you back another time. Especially once you especially once you're getting to the point when you're ready to get the film out, please contact us. Yeah, because we we because I like this conversation. I mean, we're talking for two hours. I does not feel like we've been talking for two hours. Um no, no, no, that's good. That's not a bad thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:39

That's a yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:41

There's just so many more ideas that I want to get. Like it's yeah, every time one of y'all says, And I'm gonna learn.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:48

I'm not like I always profess I am a student. I am forever a student. The day that I stop breathing is the day that I'm no longer a student. Like I'm forever learning, forever evolving, and forever changing. So I want to learn from y'all to you.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:01

I'm gonna get ready. I'm gonna wrap up today. First of all, I want to thank our guest, Yori. I appreciate you being here with us, having this discussion on these very sensitive and delicate topics and complicated as well. And of course, co-host Mike, thank you for having us on the backup with these good questions, giving us some good vibes, some good energies, giving a shout out. Try, try. There we go. Um, and then Kevin, of course, I know Skiff's in the back listening, and I know he was happy about this. He was extremely hyped about this interview and us getting to actually speak to you. He put us on a podcast, he had us listening to the podcast for like the last month so that we would know it was going. No, seriously, it is no lie. Promote, promote, because he was like, yo, this is interesting. This is very interesting. Oh, we had to have this conversation. I like this. We really gotta talk to her about this. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:49

He was talking about this back when we were first.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:51

Oh my gosh, I am honored. That's amazing, that's amazing. People have been reaching out to me left and right. I'm like, what? Like, can I come on your phone?

SPEAKER_05 1:48:58

Yeah, because you're something this is an important topic because like it deals with something that is it's a it's an issue that affects everybody, but with the community of diaspora of folks of African lineage, like I tell, like, there's no reason. I one of my favorite things is to see Steve Harvey going over and doing Family Feud in Africa, right? And him talking, communicating with the people, and him telling, yo, why are we not working together? Why do we not have stuff set up so that if I need some cement, I can holler at my man in Nigeria? The largest cement creator in the world is a Nigerian man. He is one of the top 50 richest people in the world. Why don't I have a connection to him if I'm a black business owner? I shouldn't be buying my concrete. Think about it. So, yeah, they be building. And then, like, to not know of the of the of the vast amounts of wealth and opportunity, the fact that I can go over there and go work. I don't have to stay here in the US if I don't want to. There's options, like it's something that we really do uh need to figure out how to break down just so in the world we have a better world system because it's not just for black folk, but for everybody. Like, why are we out here fighting each other? It's stupid. But yeah. And then as creatives as well, you know, as creatives, there's really not much of a space to be a good creative and to hold hostility and anger towards different racial groups or ethnicities. It doesn't help you at all in creating positive products. So we enjoy this conversation. We're gonna have another one again, like I said. And I just want to say for the Hilltop Glove podcast, I want everybody to have a great weekend. Have a good week. I want you to stay positive and upbeat. Say um hello to all your neighbors, tell them you love them, everybody that's close to you, and uh, we will see you next time. Peace.